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Jeremiah suggests Giants trade back 2x in 1st round

EddieNYG : 3/8/2018 6:59 pm
Quote:
Daniel Jeremiah Verified account
@MoveTheSticks

Interesting scenario -- NYG Trade back 2 spots (CLE comes back up for Barkely/QB) then BUF trades up to 4th pick for QB. CLE gets Barkley/QB, BUF gets their QB and NYG get massive amount of picks in 2018 & 2019. Thoughts?

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 3/8/2018 10:44 pm : link
In comment 13855711 arcarsenal said:
Quote:


However, Bridgewater aside - what Shurmur ran in MIN would work fantastically with Jackson, IMO. The RPO/power spread concepts are exactly what you need to run if you have Jackson as your QB, IMO.



Should have been clearer. Bridge and LamJax have this similar push motion with the ball. Not really a classical throwing motion. Apparently, Shurmur was working on lengthening that for Bridge. So there is that template to use for LamJax...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 3/8/2018 10:54 pm : link
In comment 13855785 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13855711 arcarsenal said:


Quote:




However, Bridgewater aside - what Shurmur ran in MIN would work fantastically with Jackson, IMO. The RPO/power spread concepts are exactly what you need to run if you have Jackson as your QB, IMO.





Should have been clearer. Bridge and LamJax have this similar push motion with the ball. Not really a classical throwing motion. Apparently, Shurmur was working on lengthening that for Bridge. So there is that template to use for LamJax...


Gotcha - yeah, I mean I think Shurmur would be an excellent pro coach for Jackson. I really think his career is going to hinge on being well-coached and being drafted by a team willing to mold their offense to what he does best.

Shurmur can do that.

I still don't see him winding up here, but I'd be pretty excited if he did. The talent is undeniable.
RE: It works in Madden!  
Reale01 : 3/9/2018 12:08 am : link
In comment 13855746 rasbutant said:
Quote:
First trade down to 4 with Cleveland
Second Trade down to 6 with Jets so the can jump the broncos
Third Trade down to 11 with Miami so they out bid the cardinals for the spot
Fourth Trade down with the Bills so they can jump the Cardinals.
Firth Trade down with the Saints so they can grab their QB.
........

Fill in the QB's as you like but i'll take a guess
Browns gets Rosen
Jets gets Darnold
Broncos gets Allen
Miami gets Mayfield
Bills get Jackson
Saints gets Rudolph


Nice analysis on your part. I included that scenario as an example of the haul of actual players we could potentially land. The roster issues that could be addressed. Each of the trades are realistic, but that does not mean the Browns or Jets would be willing partners in real life. Thanks to your GENIUS I now understand that point. Therefore we should not discuss anything on this board as none of us really understands the Giants actual thinking.


The Only Way The Giants Trade Down With Cleve...  
Jim in Tampa : 3/9/2018 5:59 am : link
Is if they have the 3 top QBs all rated about the same and would be happy with any of them. If that were the case AND Cleve gave them what they wanted in return, then that trade might work. However...

There is no way Cleve is giving up both of their 2nd RD picks. It would more likely be a 2 and a 4 or maybe a 2 and a 3, but not both picks at the top of the 2nd RD.

And absolutely NO to the Buffalo trade. That's too far down.

One last thought...Let Buffalo's situation be a warning to the Giants. Buffalo is in QB hell and even though there are 3 or 4 top QBs, Buffalo probably won't be able to trade up to get any of them. If the Giants pass on a QB, this is their future.
RE: I have little interest in trying to  
Hammer : 3/9/2018 6:04 am : link
In comment 13855626 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Let's just draft the second best player in the thing.


This ^^^
No to trading down twice as  
Rick in Dallas : 3/9/2018 6:54 am : link
You will miss out on the 10 to 15 blue chip players in this draft.
I prefer staying at number 2 and getting your next QB for the next 10 years.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
section125 : 3/9/2018 7:17 am : link
In comment 13855789 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13855785 bw in dc said:
Gotcha - yeah, I mean I think Shurmur would be an excellent pro coach for Jackson. I really think his career is going to hinge on being well-coached and being drafted by a team willing to mold their offense to what he does best.

Shurmur can do that.

I still don't see him winding up here, but I'd be pretty excited if he did. The talent is undeniable.


No doubt that Jackson is a gifted athlete, but he is not an NFL QB. He is too far behind the in development. What works in college offense does not work in the NFL. At yesterday's conference with Colin from GBN it was said he does not have the mental part of the game down. Not that he isn't smart enough, but that he cannot make the necessary reads and related decisions and never improved in his 3 years at UL.

There is no way the Giants draft a kid that cannot read defenses. Jerry Jones may be willing to roll the dice in the 2nd, but I just do not see him being ready in two years. I'm not sure how the RPO would work with most teams in the NFL, but I can see him running it somewhere, but not in New York.
My Nelson and Barkley man crush be damned  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/9/2018 7:31 am : link
Do it and "settle" for whoever if we get a boatload of picks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 3/9/2018 7:53 am : link
In comment 13855825 section125 said:
Quote:


No doubt that Jackson is a gifted athlete, but he is not an NFL QB. He is too far behind the in development. What works in college offense does not work in the NFL. At yesterday's conference with Colin from GBN it was said he does not have the mental part of the game down. Not that he isn't smart enough, but that he cannot make the necessary reads and related decisions and never improved in his 3 years at UL.

There is no way the Giants draft a kid that cannot read defenses. Jerry Jones may be willing to roll the dice in the 2nd, but I just do not see him being ready in two years. I'm not sure how the RPO would work with most teams in the NFL, but I can see him running it somewhere, but not in New York.


Where is this coming from? LamJax played under Bobby Petrinoís pro system. And Petrino is one of the best offensive minds in college football.

Iím not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I donít think heís this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - canít play the position because they arenít sophisticated enough...
RE: I actuallyike this idea  
Montreal Man : 3/9/2018 7:53 am : link
In comment 13855682 Matt M. said:
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As mentioned, one benefit would be a number of picks next year to leverage cor a trade up/QB. This obviously only makes sense if they don't love a QB this year. But, for a team with so many needs, having that many picks has its merits also.


Sounds good, but will there be any real NFL type QB's available next year? What good is getting picks for a possible pick or trade for a QB if there aren't any worthy enough to select?
RE: RE: I would only do this  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/9/2018 7:57 am : link
In comment 13855675 The 12th Man said:
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In comment 13855631 Jay on the Island said:


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if the Giants already had a young franchise QB on the roster. Unless someone hands DG a crystal ball that shows that Webb is that guy it is too risky to pass on a QB at 2.


Why with those picks you can trade up next year. Especially if they do not believe their QB of the future is in this draft. What about the kid who was a Freshman for GA this year. He may come out next year.

If you're using the 2019 picks that you acquire in trading down from the #2 spot to then trade up next year, you're essentially just kicking the can down the road, and will have likely also sacrificed adding any premium talent in this year's draft as well. You'll get a lot of quantity, sure. But the odds of those players being impactful starts to decrease quickly the farther you get from the top of the draft. That's not to say that it would be impossible to hit on one or two of those picks and get a real star, but that's basically the same thing you'd be hoping for by staying put.

As for Fromm (the QB from Georgia), he was a true freshman this past season, so he isn't draft eligible until 2020 (three seasons removed from high school).
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/9/2018 8:05 am : link
In comment 13855703 bw in dc said:
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In comment 13855693 arcarsenal said:


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I have a feeling Jackson really isn't on the Giants' radar - so it's probably just a pipe dream anyway .



Something to ponder - Shurmur really liked Bridgewater while in Minny. Maybe he sees a better version of Bridgewater in LamJax...but more mobile in and out of the pocket and better arm...

Teddy Bridgewater had a grand total of 170 yards rushing in three years at Louisville; Jackson rushed for 4,132 yards over his three seasons. Bridgewater had a career completion percentage of 68.4, including 71.0 his final year there; Jackson's career completion percentage is 57.0, topping out at 59.1 this past season.

They really couldn't be more dissimilar as prospects, unless there is something other than them both going to the same school that you think they have in common? Something to ponder indeed.
RE: I Think Only Barkley Or Maybe One Of The QBs  
Rjanyg : 3/9/2018 8:15 am : link
In comment 13855671 Trainmaster said:
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Is worth the 2nd overall.

If Barkley is taken by Cleveland at #1 overall, Iíd be OK with a trade back from 2nd overall (2600) to 4th overall (1800) if the Giants got Clevelandís 2nd round 33rd overall (580) and 35th overall (550).

Maybe take Chubb or Nelson or a QB at 4th overall. With the first 3 picks in round 2, the Giants would be able to trade back into the 1st round around pick 20, or keep three early 2nd rounders.


Exactly. Pick up more picks and have the ammo to move back into the 1st round. There will be lots of players who could start at the back end of round 1.
IF the Giants feel that these QBs are going to be mediocre  
fkap : 3/9/2018 8:20 am : link
some of you would rather pick one and settle for mediocrity rather than pull in a treasure trove of multiple picks that can turn your team around?

The ideal situation would be to find a good-great QB to anchor this team, but if you don't think one is there, don't reach for one just because.

Out of this bunch, probably at least one will be good. the trick is picking one out. the draft is NOT a crap shoot. it's educated guessing. If your present knowledge makes you shrug your shoulders and go eeny, meeny, miny, moe, take the trade down and get a plethora of picks.

Next year's class being worse doesn't make this year's class better.
that said  
fkap : 3/9/2018 8:21 am : link
the Bills would have to give up a mega shit load of picks to make it worth dropping that far.
You trade down if the opportunity avails itself  
royhobbs7 : 3/9/2018 8:21 am : link
And you obtain a boatload of picks. We can rebuild the offense in the draft given the scenario of picks suggested from the Browns and the Bills (with Cordy Glenn as our OLT). What many are concluding here, is that Davis Webb is not the QB of the future. Well, he just might be. If Shurmur can resurrect Keenum's career, he can correct Webb's flaws (mostly footwork). Webb has been working hard in the off-season and he is a diligent student who is smart.
With many holes that would be filled in the purported 2 draft trades, we could move forward with Eli for at least 2018, and then give the reins over to Webb. If he is not the QB of the future, the Giants will be in much better "cap-land" in 2019 & 2020 when they would be able to sign a FA QB, if need be.
Only one caveat from some of the suggested draft picks: We could use a 6'4+ WR with one of those many 2nd/3rd Rd picks. And Equanimeous St. Brown (ND) just might be there with a late 2nd or early 3rd. We should not pass him up. He's going to be an excellent NFL wide-out.
RE: I don't like trading down  
FStubbs : 3/9/2018 8:27 am : link
In comment 13855660 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
Why are people so against adding an all-pro level talent or a franchise QB to this roster? Do you know how many teams would kill for the chance to draft one of the top QB's Barkley, Nelson, or Chubb?

Why give up that opportunity for a bunch of picks in the 20's, and 2nd round. And future draft picks that you have no idea what their actual value is. Those guys are less likely to pan out and be difference makers. It turns into a crap shoot the farther down the draft board you go.


Two reasons:

1 - The hope is that you draft well and add several all pro level talents to the roster. Remember Beckham was a mid first round pick.
2 - Even if they're not all pro, they'll be solid to good, and on a roster as talent depleted as the Giants, you need an infusion of solid to good players.

There's no wrong answer here as long as you draft well.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
section125 : 3/9/2018 8:59 am : link
In comment 13855841 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13855825 section125 said:
Iím not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I donít think heís this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - canít play the position because they arenít sophisticated enough...


One thing I will not tolerate from anyone is insinuating I'm stereotyping a player. A player hoping to be a top 1st round QB draft choice is going to be scrutinized. Go read yesterday's conference with GBN. There is a reason that a kid with his athletic ability and gifts is not at the head of the QB draft discussion. What is it? He's inaccurate because of poor mechanics and apparently does not make the necessary reads at this time to be drafted high in the 1st round. Colin's cohort yesterday says he has not seen improvement in his reads from his freshman year.

BTW, I feel the same way about Josh Allen if that assuages your fears, only difference is Allen is much more stoutly built and less likely to get hurt trying to make a play, but see how far size took Wentz..... I also don't think Darnold can make his reads quickly enough.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
WillVAB : 3/9/2018 9:22 am : link
In comment 13855841 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13855825 section125 said:


Quote:




No doubt that Jackson is a gifted athlete, but he is not an NFL QB. He is too far behind the in development. What works in college offense does not work in the NFL. At yesterday's conference with Colin from GBN it was said he does not have the mental part of the game down. Not that he isn't smart enough, but that he cannot make the necessary reads and related decisions and never improved in his 3 years at UL.

There is no way the Giants draft a kid that cannot read defenses. Jerry Jones may be willing to roll the dice in the 2nd, but I just do not see him being ready in two years. I'm not sure how the RPO would work with most teams in the NFL, but I can see him running it somewhere, but not in New York.



Where is this coming from? LamJax played under Bobby Petrinoís pro system. And Petrino is one of the best offensive minds in college football.

Iím not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I donít think heís this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - canít play the position because they arenít sophisticated enough...


This is bullshit. Jacksonís intelligence is a flag bc itís true ó guy is a dumbass. Has nothing to do with his color. You didnít hear anything about this with Watson last year and itís frequently referenced when comparing Watson/Jackson.
RE: Another huge benefit of adding a QB at 2  
TheMick7 : 3/9/2018 9:23 am : link
In comment 13855667 Jay on the Island said:
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A year from now the Giants will be able to let go of Eli in which they will save $17 million against the cap IIRC. They will have the luxury of having a franchise QB on a rookie deal for 3 years before the final option year which is still below market value. They can use those savings to extend Beckham, and Collins.


I've been beating the drum on this from Day #1.Unless the Giants truly feel there is not a franchise QB at their #2 pick (or they have strong feelings on Webb as our next QB),it's a no brainer. You transition from Eli to the pick,Eli's salary comes off the books(which is why those calling for the Giants to give OBJ a contract this season need to understand the economic parameters) opening cap space next season (and the assumption that the NFL adds another $10 million rise in 2019). We can then address OBJ (and Collins) with a QB that is cost controlled. All one needs to do is look at the Rams,Eagles to see the advantage in that!
I don't love the idea  
Mike from Ohio : 3/9/2018 9:38 am : link
of suffering through a 3-13 season and then having to rebuild the team without a marquis talent. I'd rather bring in a game changer than 4 or 5 "not too shabby" guys.
Picking in rarified air at #2  
JonC : 3/9/2018 9:40 am : link
it doesn't make a ton of sense to me to trade down and surrender the opportunity to plug a blue chip playmaker into the system. These are the hardest talents to come by, and trading down to attempt an OL rebuild, for example, is a less optimal strategy imv.

If they're not going QB, then I'd go Barkley or Chubb if they carry the grade, and watch them make impact plays.
Seems a lot  
joeinpa : 3/9/2018 9:40 am : link
Of people are eager to trade away a possible generational player, to get more picks for lesser players

Don't get it
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 3/9/2018 9:52 am : link
In comment 13855901 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13855841 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 13855825 section125 said:
Iím not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I donít think heís this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - canít play the position because they arenít sophisticated enough...



One thing I will not tolerate from anyone is insinuating I'm stereotyping a player. A player hoping to be a top 1st round QB draft choice is going to be scrutinized. Go read yesterday's conference with GBN. There is a reason that a kid with his athletic ability and gifts is not at the head of the QB draft discussion. What is it? He's inaccurate because of poor mechanics and apparently does not make the necessary reads at this time to be drafted high in the 1st round. Colin's cohort yesterday says he has not seen improvement in his reads from his freshman year.

BTW, I feel the same way about Josh Allen if that assuages your fears, only difference is Allen is much more stoutly built and less likely to get hurt trying to make a play, but see how far size took Wentz..... I also don't think Darnold can make his reads quickly enough.


Which part of ďnot suggesting this is your viewĒ doesnít make sense?

I was asking where you got that information. So I did go to the draft discussion to read the comment by Colinís colleague.

And for anyone here to suggest they know what a QBís actual reads are from play to play is making things up. The truth is none of us know. Without seeing the All-22 we canít even really begin to guess. And without talking to the coaching staff to know the play, the effort becomes even more impossible...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 3/9/2018 9:59 am : link
In comment 13855943 WillVAB said:
Quote:


This is bullshit. Jacksonís intelligence is a flag bc itís true ó guy is a dumbass. Has nothing to do with his color. You didnít hear anything about this with Watson last year and itís frequently referenced when comparing Watson/Jackson.


Why is he a dumbass?
RE: Seems a lot  
JonC : 3/9/2018 10:05 am : link
In comment 13855967 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Of people are eager to trade away a possible generational player, to get more picks for lesser players

Don't get it


Me either. There's approx six blue chips in this draft and then the talent falls off, just as in every draft.

All prospects are not created equally, talent is not linear.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 3/9/2018 10:10 am : link
In comment 13855943 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13855841 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 13855825 section125 said:


Quote:




No doubt that Jackson is a gifted athlete, but he is not an NFL QB. He is too far behind the in development. What works in college offense does not work in the NFL. At yesterday's conference with Colin from GBN it was said he does not have the mental part of the game down. Not that he isn't smart enough, but that he cannot make the necessary reads and related decisions and never improved in his 3 years at UL.

There is no way the Giants draft a kid that cannot read defenses. Jerry Jones may be willing to roll the dice in the 2nd, but I just do not see him being ready in two years. I'm not sure how the RPO would work with most teams in the NFL, but I can see him running it somewhere, but not in New York.



Where is this coming from? LamJax played under Bobby Petrinoís pro system. And Petrino is one of the best offensive minds in college football.

Iím not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I donít think heís this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - canít play the position because they arenít sophisticated enough...



This is bullshit. Jacksonís intelligence is a flag bc itís true ó guy is a dumbass. Has nothing to do with his color. You didnít hear anything about this with Watson last year and itís frequently referenced when comparing Watson/Jackson.


This is now several times that I've seen you call Lamar Jackson a "dumbass" or a stupid kid.

What is this based on?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
WillVAB : 3/9/2018 10:10 am : link
In comment 13855996 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13855943 WillVAB said:


Quote:




This is bullshit. Jacksonís intelligence is a flag bc itís true ó guy is a dumbass. Has nothing to do with his color. You didnít hear anything about this with Watson last year and itís frequently referenced when comparing Watson/Jackson.



Why is he a dumbass?


Thereís a reason Vegas set odds at +1000 for Jackson to post the highest Wonderlic of the top QBs.

Or is Vegas racist too?
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Racer : 3/9/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 13855703 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13855693 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

I have a feeling Jackson really isn't on the Giants' radar - so it's probably just a pipe dream anyway .

Something to ponder - Shurmur really liked Bridgewater while in Minny. Maybe he sees a better version of Bridgewater in LamJax...but more mobile in and out of the pocket and better arm...


Somebody commented on Sirius that every DC they encountered at the combine said of Jackson "I hope he doesn't end up in my Division".

When I heard it I had a dark thought that Snyder is going to see this kid as his second chance at the RG3-type player without Shanahan to screw up his master plan.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 3/9/2018 10:13 am : link
In comment 13855901 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13855841 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 13855825 section125 said:
Iím not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I donít think heís this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - canít play the position because they arenít sophisticated enough...



One thing I will not tolerate from anyone is insinuating I'm stereotyping a player. A player hoping to be a top 1st round QB draft choice is going to be scrutinized. Go read yesterday's conference with GBN. There is a reason that a kid with his athletic ability and gifts is not at the head of the QB draft discussion. What is it? He's inaccurate because of poor mechanics and apparently does not make the necessary reads at this time to be drafted high in the 1st round. Colin's cohort yesterday says he has not seen improvement in his reads from his freshman year.

BTW, I feel the same way about Josh Allen if that assuages your fears, only difference is Allen is much more stoutly built and less likely to get hurt trying to make a play, but see how far size took Wentz..... I also don't think Darnold can make his reads quickly enough.


For what it's worth, I wouldn't take him @ 2. It would be a reach.

Any scenario where I'd have NYG taking Jackson would be either if he fell to our 2nd pick or if we had to move up into the tail end of the 1st to get him.
For years this team picked in the area of low 20's  
UberAlias : 3/9/2018 10:17 am : link
An we were left drooling over the players they had no shot at watching them come off one by one ahead of us. Then even in the two recent seasons where they drafted at the bottom of the top 10 they got stuck on the out side looking in on the real elite guys and were stuck having to settle. Now this team has a chance to select any player in the draft outside of 1 and a surprising number of fans want to give that away. To hell with that. Use the pick to draft the next Eli Manning or Michael Strahan and don't look back.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/9/2018 10:17 am : link
Vegas odds on a Wonderlic score? That's how we're judging Lamar Jackson's intelligence?

Good lord.

BTW, since you brought up Watson, you may want to know that he posted the lowest Wonderlic score of ANY QB in last year's draft.

Do you think any GM would penalize him for that now based on what he did when he played? I don't. He was fantastic and can clearly handle the pro game.
Why is that so hard to understand?  
Jimmy Googs : 3/9/2018 10:20 am : link
Many ways to build a winning team.

I absolutely favor staying at #2 and picking a QB to get Eli out door sooner, but its not like we couldn't use improved players and depth at OL, RB, LB and to some extent FS, CB and WR.

And the only way you improve across the board in any reasonable fashion is to stockpile picks and hope to draft well

Elite players play a role as well but not the only one.
RE: .  
GFAN52 : 3/9/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13856022 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Vegas odds on a Wonderlic score? That's how we're judging Lamar Jackson's intelligence?

Good lord.

BTW, since you brought up Watson, you may want to know that he posted the lowest Wonderlic score of ANY QB in last year's draft.

Do you think any GM would penalize him for that now based on what he did when he played? I don't. He was fantastic and can clearly handle the pro game.


Good point.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 3/9/2018 10:35 am : link
In comment 13856008 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13855996 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 13855943 WillVAB said:


Quote:




This is bullshit. Jacksonís intelligence is a flag bc itís true ó guy is a dumbass. Has nothing to do with his color. You didnít hear anything about this with Watson last year and itís frequently referenced when comparing Watson/Jackson.



Why is he a dumbass?



Thereís a reason Vegas set odds at +1000 for Jackson to post the highest Wonderlic of the top QBs.

Or is Vegas racist too?


So weíve been reduced to commenting on a personís intellect based on Vegas odds?

Please tell me youíre better than this.
I could see us trading down once  
Dr. D : 3/9/2018 10:52 am : link
not too far, but doubt we would trade down twice.

I know a lot of people think the Ogletree trade would make us more likely to trade down to get back picks. I think it might actually indicate DG is going for a quick one year retooling vs. a 2-3 year rebuild; meaning that with his picks he will be going for quality vs. quantity.

People keep saying we're more than one year from being a contender. I don't think that's necessarily true. Most people thought the same of the eagles a year ago.
My thoughts  
Don Draper : 3/9/2018 11:33 am : link
I'm generally too intimidated by the football expertise here to chime in on topics like this, but I'm feeling brave, today:
Quote:

#21 (Bills)
#22 (Bills)
#33 (Browns)
#34 (Giants)*
#35 (Browns)
#55 (Bills)
#66 (Giants)*
#102 (Giants)*
#139 (Giants)*
#166 (Bills)*
It all comes down to how the top 6 teams rate the QBs  
rich in DC : 3/9/2018 11:35 am : link
Each one will have a different list I am sure. However, we can be assured that with one of their first rounders, Cleveland WILL take a QB. After that, anyone's guess.

I see three scenarios.

Scenario 1: Cleveland takes Barkley first. They then trade up with the Giants, giving up the #4 pick, a second rounder and a third to get to #2 to get the QB they want. Giants wait to see what Indy does. If Indy uses the pick on a non QB (Nelson or Chubb), the Giants could entice the Jets to move up ahead of Denver, who even if they get a vet QB, will likely be looking for a future QB. At #6 in this scenario, the Giants get a shot at Nelson or Chubb (whoever Indy did not take) , Fitzpatrick or even the last QB left of Allen, Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield.

Scenario #2: Cleveland takes a QB- likely Darnold. The Giants take Bradley.

Scenario #3: Cleveland takes a QB- likely Darnold. The Giants trade back to #5 to let Denver grab a QB- maybe get the #5 pick, a second rounder and a 2019 high pick. The Jets then trade with the Colts to grab a QB. Cleveland takes Bradley. The Giants then take one of Nelson, Fitzpatrick or Chubb.
RE: I would only do this  
Jersey55 : 3/9/2018 11:37 am : link
In comment 13855631 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
if the Giants already had a young franchise QB on the roster. Unless someone hands DG a crystal ball that shows that Webb is that guy it is too risky to pass on a QB at 2.
you,may be exactly right about that....
RE: How about this...  
Boatie Warrant : 3/9/2018 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13855628 BigBlue1092 said:
Quote:
#21 (Bills)
#22 (Bills)
#33 (Browns)
#34 (Giants)*
#35 (Browns)
#55 (Bills)
#66 (Giants)*
#102 (Giants)*
#139 (Giants)*
#166 (Bills)*
+
Bills OT Cordy Glenn & their first round pick next year


Using these picks as an example and looking at the last four drafts would you rather have pick #2 or all the rest?

2014
#2 OT - Greg Robinson
or
#21 FS Ė HaHa Clinton Dix
#22 QB Ė Johnny Manziel
#33 OG Ė Xavier Suía-Filo
#35 OT Ė Joel Bitonio
#55 RB Ė Jeremy Hill
#166 DE Ė Jon Newsome

2015
#2 QB - Marcus Mariota
or
#21 OT- Cedric Ogbuehi
#22 OLB - Bud Dupree
#33 SS - Landon Collins
#35 DT Ė Mario Edwards, Jr.
#55 TE Ė Maxx Williams
#166 LS Ė Joe Cardona

2016
#2 QB - Carson Wentz
or
#21 WR Ė Will Fuller
#22 WR - Josh Doctson
#33 DE Ė Kevin Dodd
#35 TE Ė Hunter Henry
#55 WR Ė Tyler Boyd
#166 NT Ė DJ Reader

2017
#2 QB Ė Mitchell Trubisky
or
#21 LB Ė Jarrad Davis
#22 LB - Charles Harris
#33 CB Ė Kevin King
#35 DT Ė Malik McDowell
#55 WR Ė Tyler Boyd DT Ė Dalvin Tomlinson
#166 WR Ė Shelton Gibson

and remember to add Bills OT Cordy Glenn & their first round pick next year.

Have to say I would lean towards all the extra picks. Plenty of good talent in the second round for sure. Also remembering that we would be drafting mostly different position players in those spots and we have a good Starting QB for the next 2 years (IMO)

With 5 QBs all potentially going in the top 10  
Knee of Theismann : 3/9/2018 12:13 pm : link
It makes sense to do this. Teams will pay a king's ransom for "their guy" if they think he is the future franchise QB, and even if they just have to move up a few spots to nab him. Having the #2 pick allows us to trade back twice and still have a fairly high pick, ppssibly even still top 10 or at least top 15.
Let's all remember  
Knee of Theismann : 3/9/2018 12:16 pm : link
The idea that Eli is in "steep decline" is an opinion pretty much only held by Giants fans who have been frustrated by watching the team lose the last 5 years. Most everyone else in the NFL believes Eli can still play at a high level and win a super bowl if he's just surrounded by the right team.
A much more intelligent double trade back for the Giants...  
Torrag : 3/9/2018 12:22 pm : link
...that leaves them in position to still land a blue chip talent.

Cle takes a QB at #1, any QB for the purposes of this hypothetical it doesn't matter which one. They then trade up to #2 with us.

We then trade back from #4 to #6 with the Jets.

Done. And still land an elite player.
Don Draper  
fkap : 3/9/2018 12:32 pm : link
the football expertise around here is a lot like the football talent in this country: a couple of blue chippers, a bunch of quality, and a whole lot of UDFA who might play flag football if they bother to get off the couch.

The Giants board for round 1 should have 3 names  
est1986 : 3/9/2018 12:48 pm : link
In very close order, Darnold, Barkley, Nelson. If Cleveland takes someone not named Darnold, Barkley or Nelson number one overall then and only then would I listen to a offer from Cleveland to go from 2 to 4. I need all three of their second rounders to make it happen (4, 33, 35 & 60?)
trade downs  
tmage : 3/9/2018 9:20 pm : link
I'd LOVE to see two trade downs, BUT, I don't want to see the Giants drop lower than about slot 12 or so. The scenarios where the Giants drop down to Buffalo's 21 and 22 slot just don't work out for the Giants. The value on players drops off at about 15 or so. Optimally, I'd like to see them pick up a first rounder in next year's draft and have them draft a qb then. All the QB's in this draft have good potential but they all have at least one big potentially busting flaw too. There are no sure things this year. Eli has another year or two in him and I'd rather them draft a qb next year. Also getting another 2nd or 3rd rounder in this years draft would go a long, long way to rebuilding the O-Line and LB corp.
Have to be good at the draft to make this work  
ghost718 : 3/9/2018 9:26 pm : link
I'd rather drop back to 4 and pick up a few second rounders and whatever else.I'd like to have another 2 in this draft.
RE: I would only do this  
Jersey55 : 3/10/2018 11:08 am : link
In comment 13855631 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
if the Giants already had a young franchise QB on the roster. Unless someone hands DG a crystal ball that shows that Webb is that guy it is too risky to pass on a QB at 2.


looks like the Giants front office really screwed Gettleman by not playing Webb last season, because its almost draft time and nobody knows what this kid can do in real time football as a pro, so Gettlemen is going to have to shoot blind in this draft..
RE: RE: .  
Jersey55 : 3/10/2018 11:24 am : link
In comment 13856029 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 13856022 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Vegas odds on a Wonderlic score? That's how we're judging Lamar Jackson's intelligence?

Good lord.




BTW, since you brought up Watson, you may want to know that he posted the lowest Wonderlic score of ANY QB in last year's draft.

Do you think any GM would penalize him for that now based on what he did when he played? I don't. He was fantastic and can clearly handle the pro game.



Good point.


does anybody know how Lawrence Taylor did with the wonderlic test, I would imagine he did not do too well and if thats true then the whole wonderlic business is just plain crapola....
RE: RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 3/10/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13857526 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
In comment 13856029 GFAN52 said:


Quote:


In comment 13856022 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Vegas odds on a Wonderlic score? That's how we're judging Lamar Jackson's intelligence?

Good lord.




BTW, since you brought up Watson, you may want to know that he posted the lowest Wonderlic score of ANY QB in last year's draft.

Do you think any GM would penalize him for that now based on what he did when he played? I don't. He was fantastic and can clearly handle the pro game.



Good point.



does anybody know how Lawrence Taylor did with the wonderlic test, I would imagine he did not do too well and if thats true then the whole wonderlic business is just plain crapola....
It's certainly a crap shoot. Marino scored a 16. Jim Kelly scored a 15. Rodgers scored a 16. Eli scored a 39. So there really isn't a correlation between what you score and your success in the NFL...
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