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Daniel Jeremiah Verified account @MoveTheSticks Interesting scenario -- NYG Trade back 2 spots (CLE comes back up for Barkely/QB) then BUF trades up to 4th pick for QB. CLE gets Barkley/QB, BUF gets their QB and NYG get massive amount of picks in 2018 & 2019. Thoughts? |
#22 (Bills)
#33 (Browns)
#34 (Giants)*
#35 (Browns)
#55 (Bills)
#66 (Giants)*
#102 (Giants)*
#139 (Giants)*
#166 (Bills)*
+
Bills OT Cordy Glenn & their first round pick next year
I would want the Browns the 4th, 2019 1st round pick and a 2nd this year. From Buffalo I would want the 21st and 22nd picks, and a 1st and 2nd in 2019 for the #4 pick.
That would leave the Giants with the 21st and 22nd pick this year plus the 33rd and 34th pick.
In 2019 they would have three first round picks and two second rounders to use as leverage to move up for one of the QB's if they so choose. Of course the chances of this happening are 1 in a million. People just need to accept the fact that the Giants are more than likely going to take their next QB at 2.
They could still get some nice additional picks trading back to 4, and if they chose to trade back again to 6, and get a can't miss player. IMO, that's what they need, a can't miss, plug right in talented player.
#21 (Bills)
#22 (Bills)
#33 (Browns)
#35 (Browns)
#55 (Bills)
#166 (Bills)*
+
Bills OT Cordy Glenn & their 2019 1st round pick
Bills Get:
#4 (Giants via Browns)
Browns Get:
#2 (Giants)
LMAO!
Intriguing if the situations present themselves.
Hmmm, let’s do it then...
He'll need the same crystal ball to pick the right QB.
having 21, 22, 33,34,35, 55, and 66 in the first 2 days
plus Cordy Glenn and the bills 1st rounder next year is a the type of haul that could change the franchise.
If you are thinking about wanting the Giants to compete next year this would be the best plan to do so. We could draft multiple lineman, a running back, and pass rusher, a linebacker and another DB. You could even take a chance on another QB if one drops. You could get multiple impact players.
At least it is something I would consider...
I’d be livid if we passed on Barkley/QB to add a bunch of quantity.
Why give up that opportunity for a bunch of picks in the 20's, and 2nd round. And future draft picks that you have no idea what their actual value is. Those guys are less likely to pan out and be difference makers. It turns into a crap shoot the farther down the draft board you go.
Why give up that opportunity for a bunch of picks in the 20's, and 2nd round. And future draft picks that you have no idea what their actual value is. Those guys are less likely to pan out and be difference makers. It turns into a crap shoot the farther down the draft board you go.
I think because it is just fun to think of adding several players rather than one. I am against trading down unless the Giants strongly dislike all of the QB's in the draft which I have a really hard time buying.
I’d be livid if we passed on Barkley/QB to add a bunch of quantity.
Exactly. It is hard to find A-level talents later in the draft.
You can find decent starters, but you are not likely to find all-pro level talents like Barkley and Chubb.
Unless you want to build a roster full of C or B level players that are easily replaceable- the Justin Pughs, Kiwanukas, Aaron Rosses, Prince Amukamaras, and William Josephs of the world.
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but the Giants have a 37 year old QB, no RB, a poor OL & a ton of other needs.
I’d be livid if we passed on Barkley/QB to add a bunch of quantity.
Exactly. It is hard to find A-level talents later in the draft.
You can find decent starters, but you are not likely to find all-pro level talents like Barkley and Chubb.
Unless you want to build a roster full of C or B level players that are easily replaceable- the Justin Pughs, Kiwanukas, Aaron Rosses, Prince Amukamaras, and William Josephs of the world.
And to add to this, you definitely aren't going to find a franchise QB which is something the Giants should definitely be considering.
If Barkley is taken by Cleveland at #1 overall, I’d be OK with a trade back from 2nd overall (2600) to 4th overall (1800) if the Giants got Cleveland’s 2nd round 33rd overall (580) and 35th overall (550).
Maybe take Chubb or Nelson or a QB at 4th overall. With the first 3 picks in round 2, the Giants would be able to trade back into the 1st round around pick 20, or keep three early 2nd rounders.
Why with those picks you can trade up next year. Especially if they do not believe their QB of the future is in this draft. What about the kid who was a Freshman for GA this year. He may come out next year.
Barkley
Rosen
Nelson
Fitzpatrick
I think for Barkley or Rosen, you have to take them @ 2.
The other two guys, I think if you move down a few spots, but stay in the top 10, you've got a decent shot at one of them since whoever we swap with is almost certainly going QB.
I don't like the idea of moving down twice.
If the Giants don't come out of this thing with an elite player or franchise QB, they did a poor job.
Barkley
Rosen
Nelson
Fitzpatrick
I think for Barkley or Rosen, you have to take them @ 2.
What if we got Chubb at #2 and LamJax in round two?
Here is the problem with not being in love with a QB this year - you'll be even less in love with the QB crop next year...
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I've said this before, but if it's me, I am making sure I come away with one of these 4 guys...
Barkley
Rosen
Nelson
Fitzpatrick
I think for Barkley or Rosen, you have to take them @ 2.
What if we got Chubb at #2 and LamJax in round two?
I think I could live with that just because I really do like Lamar - I'm not crazy about Chubb @ 2 but the LJax part of the equation makes me not hate it.
Still - if we were going to wind up with Jackson, then I'd much rather come away with Nelson or Barkley, in particular.
I have a feeling Jackson really isn't on the Giants' radar - so it's probably just a pipe dream anyway .
Get them both
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This obviously only makes sense if they don't love a QB this year.
Here is the problem with not being in love with a QB this year - you'll be even less in love with the QB crop next year...
This is EXACTLY correct. The Giants must come away with a QB for the 2019 or 2020 season in this draft. Grab the QB you like best in the 1st and focus the rest of the draft on core players - Oline/Dline/Dbackfield/LB.
A trade down to 4 with Cleveland could work out ok, but I don't see a reason to drop back to the 20's and miss out on a franchise QB.
I have a feeling Jackson really isn't on the Giants' radar - so it's probably just a pipe dream anyway .
Something to ponder - Shurmur really liked Bridgewater while in Minny. Maybe he sees a better version of Bridgewater in LamJax...but more mobile in and out of the pocket and better arm...
Cleveland swap for two second rounders
Jets #4 for #7 a second and a third
Not unreasonable IMO
Round 1 Pick 6 (NYJ): Nelson, Quenten OL ND (A+)
Round 2 Pick 1 (CLE): Vander Esch, Leighton, OLB/ILB, Boise State (B+)
Round 2 Pick 2: Key, Arden, DE/OLB, LSU (B)
Round 2 Pick 3 (CLE): Smith, Braden, OG, Auburn (B-)
Round 2 Pick 5 (NYJ): Michele RB Georgia,
Round 3 Pick 2: Ragnow, Frank, C/OG, Arkansas (B)
Round 3 Pick 8 (NYJ): Carter, Lorenzo, OLB, Georgia (B+)
Round 4 Pick 2: Hill, BJ, DT, North Carolina State (A)
Round 4 Pick 35: Lotulelei, Lowell, DT, Utah (C+)
Round 5 Pick 2: Dawson, Duke, CB, Florida (A+)
Round 6 Pick 2: Scarbrough, Bo, RB, Alabama (A+)
Sign premium FA OT, OG, and WR
Sign lesser FA at S assorted small deals
Sign Kennard, Jones, and Cockeral
Cut Marshall, Jerry, Harris
Sign OBJ and Collins with big guarantee in 2019.
Note BJ Hill won't be there but there are some other good players at that spot.
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I have a feeling Jackson really isn't on the Giants' radar - so it's probably just a pipe dream anyway .
Something to ponder - Shurmur really liked Bridgewater while in Minny. Maybe he sees a better version of Bridgewater in LamJax...but more mobile in and out of the pocket and better arm...
I think Jackson and Bridgewater are very different prospects - Teddy was/is a pure pocket passer. He's not mobile at all. Jackson's athleticism is in another universe - but Bridgewater was a much more polished passer coming out.
I'd say if Teddy had played under Petrino @ LOU, there'd be another connection there where I could see how it could make sense.
However, Bridgewater aside - what Shurmur ran in MIN would work fantastically with Jackson, IMO. The RPO/power spread concepts are exactly what you need to run if you have Jackson as your QB, IMO.
So, from that standpoint, I could absolutely see how it could work.
I have no real basis for thinking Jackson isn't on NYG's radar, it's just the feeling I'm getting.
Giants aren't competing in this NFC any time soon
I'll take the picks
Giants aren't competing in this NFC any time soon
I'll take the picks
The Giants aren't competing anytime soon if they don't find their next franchise QB. As we saw in 2011 a great QB can compensate for a lack of talent on the roster.
Second Trade down to 6 with Jets so the can jump the broncos
Third Trade down to 11 with Miami so they out bid the cardinals for the spot
Fourth Trade down with the Bills so they can jump the Cardinals.
Firth Trade down with the Saints so they can grab their QB.
........
Fill in the QB's as you like but i'll take a guess
Browns gets Rosen
Jets gets Darnold
Broncos gets Allen
Miami gets Mayfield
Bills get Jackson
Saints gets Rudolph
I agree with you on the QB, it seems like not selecting one at 2 is a colossal mistake, but that’s just my opinion. If they do trade down they need to get a massive massive deal and I still will think they will regret it.
I’m not advancing any opinion as to what he should do. This is his gig. But he should be cognizant that the NFL usually operates on a three-year timetable for turning around an organization . The Browns advanced that timetable to 2 seasons , and then one. But the Giants , at least as far as the HC is concerned , reduced the tolerance period to 3/4 of one season.
It is still hard to believe that McAdoo got axed in less than one season following an 11-win rookie season . It’s not like he got caught in a domestic violence arrest or something like that . So DG better not take solace in the notion that the Giants “don’t fire GMs.” Mara is getting to be very impetuous.
This team stopped being special years ago. Now they are nosediving . Nobody worries about playing the Giants anymore . Teams secretly relish the opportunity to face Eli, regardless of what is said for publication. .
Back to DG’s seminal decisions , I think that he will accommodate Beckham . Quite handsomely , I will add. And he will build around , build up Eli. Eschew the QB. I’ll let it go at that . God Bless.
I say do it.
Barkley
Rosen Darnold
Nelson
Fitzpatrick Chubb
However, Bridgewater aside - what Shurmur ran in MIN would work fantastically with Jackson, IMO. The RPO/power spread concepts are exactly what you need to run if you have Jackson as your QB, IMO.
Should have been clearer. Bridge and LamJax have this similar push motion with the ball. Not really a classical throwing motion. Apparently, Shurmur was working on lengthening that for Bridge. So there is that template to use for LamJax...
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However, Bridgewater aside - what Shurmur ran in MIN would work fantastically with Jackson, IMO. The RPO/power spread concepts are exactly what you need to run if you have Jackson as your QB, IMO.
Should have been clearer. Bridge and LamJax have this similar push motion with the ball. Not really a classical throwing motion. Apparently, Shurmur was working on lengthening that for Bridge. So there is that template to use for LamJax...
Gotcha - yeah, I mean I think Shurmur would be an excellent pro coach for Jackson. I really think his career is going to hinge on being well-coached and being drafted by a team willing to mold their offense to what he does best.
Shurmur can do that.
I still don't see him winding up here, but I'd be pretty excited if he did. The talent is undeniable.
Second Trade down to 6 with Jets so the can jump the broncos
Third Trade down to 11 with Miami so they out bid the cardinals for the spot
Fourth Trade down with the Bills so they can jump the Cardinals.
Firth Trade down with the Saints so they can grab their QB.
........
Fill in the QB's as you like but i'll take a guess
Browns gets Rosen
Jets gets Darnold
Broncos gets Allen
Miami gets Mayfield
Bills get Jackson
Saints gets Rudolph
Nice analysis on your part. I included that scenario as an example of the haul of actual players we could potentially land. The roster issues that could be addressed. Each of the trades are realistic, but that does not mean the Browns or Jets would be willing partners in real life. Thanks to your GENIUS I now understand that point. Therefore we should not discuss anything on this board as none of us really understands the Giants actual thinking.
There is no way Cleve is giving up both of their 2nd RD picks. It would more likely be a 2 and a 4 or maybe a 2 and a 3, but not both picks at the top of the 2nd RD.
And absolutely NO to the Buffalo trade. That's too far down.
One last thought...Let Buffalo's situation be a warning to the Giants. Buffalo is in QB hell and even though there are 3 or 4 top QBs, Buffalo probably won't be able to trade up to get any of them. If the Giants pass on a QB, this is their future.
This ^^^
I prefer staying at number 2 and getting your next QB for the next 10 years.
Gotcha - yeah, I mean I think Shurmur would be an excellent pro coach for Jackson. I really think his career is going to hinge on being well-coached and being drafted by a team willing to mold their offense to what he does best.
Shurmur can do that.
I still don't see him winding up here, but I'd be pretty excited if he did. The talent is undeniable.
No doubt that Jackson is a gifted athlete, but he is not an NFL QB. He is too far behind the in development. What works in college offense does not work in the NFL. At yesterday's conference with Colin from GBN it was said he does not have the mental part of the game down. Not that he isn't smart enough, but that he cannot make the necessary reads and related decisions and never improved in his 3 years at UL.
There is no way the Giants draft a kid that cannot read defenses. Jerry Jones may be willing to roll the dice in the 2nd, but I just do not see him being ready in two years. I'm not sure how the RPO would work with most teams in the NFL, but I can see him running it somewhere, but not in New York.
No doubt that Jackson is a gifted athlete, but he is not an NFL QB. He is too far behind the in development. What works in college offense does not work in the NFL. At yesterday's conference with Colin from GBN it was said he does not have the mental part of the game down. Not that he isn't smart enough, but that he cannot make the necessary reads and related decisions and never improved in his 3 years at UL.
There is no way the Giants draft a kid that cannot read defenses. Jerry Jones may be willing to roll the dice in the 2nd, but I just do not see him being ready in two years. I'm not sure how the RPO would work with most teams in the NFL, but I can see him running it somewhere, but not in New York.
Where is this coming from? LamJax played under Bobby Petrino’s pro system. And Petrino is one of the best offensive minds in college football.
I’m not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I don’t think he’s this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - can’t play the position because they aren’t sophisticated enough...
Sounds good, but will there be any real NFL type QB's available next year? What good is getting picks for a possible pick or trade for a QB if there aren't any worthy enough to select?
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if the Giants already had a young franchise QB on the roster. Unless someone hands DG a crystal ball that shows that Webb is that guy it is too risky to pass on a QB at 2.
Why with those picks you can trade up next year. Especially if they do not believe their QB of the future is in this draft. What about the kid who was a Freshman for GA this year. He may come out next year.
If you're using the 2019 picks that you acquire in trading down from the #2 spot to then trade up next year, you're essentially just kicking the can down the road, and will have likely also sacrificed adding any premium talent in this year's draft as well. You'll get a lot of quantity, sure. But the odds of those players being impactful starts to decrease quickly the farther you get from the top of the draft. That's not to say that it would be impossible to hit on one or two of those picks and get a real star, but that's basically the same thing you'd be hoping for by staying put.
As for Fromm (the QB from Georgia), he was a true freshman this past season, so he isn't draft eligible until 2020 (three seasons removed from high school).
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I have a feeling Jackson really isn't on the Giants' radar - so it's probably just a pipe dream anyway .
Something to ponder - Shurmur really liked Bridgewater while in Minny. Maybe he sees a better version of Bridgewater in LamJax...but more mobile in and out of the pocket and better arm...
Teddy Bridgewater had a grand total of 170 yards rushing in three years at Louisville; Jackson rushed for 4,132 yards over his three seasons. Bridgewater had a career completion percentage of 68.4, including 71.0 his final year there; Jackson's career completion percentage is 57.0, topping out at 59.1 this past season.
They really couldn't be more dissimilar as prospects, unless there is something other than them both going to the same school that you think they have in common? Something to ponder indeed.
If Barkley is taken by Cleveland at #1 overall, I’d be OK with a trade back from 2nd overall (2600) to 4th overall (1800) if the Giants got Cleveland’s 2nd round 33rd overall (580) and 35th overall (550).
Maybe take Chubb or Nelson or a QB at 4th overall. With the first 3 picks in round 2, the Giants would be able to trade back into the 1st round around pick 20, or keep three early 2nd rounders.
Exactly. Pick up more picks and have the ammo to move back into the 1st round. There will be lots of players who could start at the back end of round 1.
The ideal situation would be to find a good-great QB to anchor this team, but if you don't think one is there, don't reach for one just because.
Out of this bunch, probably at least one will be good. the trick is picking one out. the draft is NOT a crap shoot. it's educated guessing. If your present knowledge makes you shrug your shoulders and go eeny, meeny, miny, moe, take the trade down and get a plethora of picks.
Next year's class being worse doesn't make this year's class better.
With many holes that would be filled in the purported 2 draft trades, we could move forward with Eli for at least 2018, and then give the reins over to Webb. If he is not the QB of the future, the Giants will be in much better "cap-land" in 2019 & 2020 when they would be able to sign a FA QB, if need be.
Only one caveat from some of the suggested draft picks: We could use a 6'4+ WR with one of those many 2nd/3rd Rd picks. And Equanimeous St. Brown (ND) just might be there with a late 2nd or early 3rd. We should not pass him up. He's going to be an excellent NFL wide-out.
Why give up that opportunity for a bunch of picks in the 20's, and 2nd round. And future draft picks that you have no idea what their actual value is. Those guys are less likely to pan out and be difference makers. It turns into a crap shoot the farther down the draft board you go.
Two reasons:
1 - The hope is that you draft well and add several all pro level talents to the roster. Remember Beckham was a mid first round pick.
2 - Even if they're not all pro, they'll be solid to good, and on a roster as talent depleted as the Giants, you need an infusion of solid to good players.
There's no wrong answer here as long as you draft well.
I’m not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I don’t think he’s this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - can’t play the position because they aren’t sophisticated enough...
One thing I will not tolerate from anyone is insinuating I'm stereotyping a player. A player hoping to be a top 1st round QB draft choice is going to be scrutinized. Go read yesterday's conference with GBN. There is a reason that a kid with his athletic ability and gifts is not at the head of the QB draft discussion. What is it? He's inaccurate because of poor mechanics and apparently does not make the necessary reads at this time to be drafted high in the 1st round. Colin's cohort yesterday says he has not seen improvement in his reads from his freshman year.
BTW, I feel the same way about Josh Allen if that assuages your fears, only difference is Allen is much more stoutly built and less likely to get hurt trying to make a play, but see how far size took Wentz..... I also don't think Darnold can make his reads quickly enough.
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No doubt that Jackson is a gifted athlete, but he is not an NFL QB. He is too far behind the in development. What works in college offense does not work in the NFL. At yesterday's conference with Colin from GBN it was said he does not have the mental part of the game down. Not that he isn't smart enough, but that he cannot make the necessary reads and related decisions and never improved in his 3 years at UL.
There is no way the Giants draft a kid that cannot read defenses. Jerry Jones may be willing to roll the dice in the 2nd, but I just do not see him being ready in two years. I'm not sure how the RPO would work with most teams in the NFL, but I can see him running it somewhere, but not in New York.
Where is this coming from? LamJax played under Bobby Petrino’s pro system. And Petrino is one of the best offensive minds in college football.
I’m not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I don’t think he’s this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - can’t play the position because they aren’t sophisticated enough...
This is bullshit. Jackson’s intelligence is a flag bc it’s true — guy is a dumbass. Has nothing to do with his color. You didn’t hear anything about this with Watson last year and it’s frequently referenced when comparing Watson/Jackson.
I've been beating the drum on this from Day #1.Unless the Giants truly feel there is not a franchise QB at their #2 pick (or they have strong feelings on Webb as our next QB),it's a no brainer. You transition from Eli to the pick,Eli's salary comes off the books(which is why those calling for the Giants to give OBJ a contract this season need to understand the economic parameters) opening cap space next season (and the assumption that the NFL adds another $10 million rise in 2019). We can then address OBJ (and Collins) with a QB that is cost controlled. All one needs to do is look at the Rams,Eagles to see the advantage in that!
If they're not going QB, then I'd go Barkley or Chubb if they carry the grade, and watch them make impact plays.
Don't get it
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In comment 13855825 section125 said:
I’m not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I don’t think he’s this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - can’t play the position because they aren’t sophisticated enough...
One thing I will not tolerate from anyone is insinuating I'm stereotyping a player. A player hoping to be a top 1st round QB draft choice is going to be scrutinized. Go read yesterday's conference with GBN. There is a reason that a kid with his athletic ability and gifts is not at the head of the QB draft discussion. What is it? He's inaccurate because of poor mechanics and apparently does not make the necessary reads at this time to be drafted high in the 1st round. Colin's cohort yesterday says he has not seen improvement in his reads from his freshman year.
BTW, I feel the same way about Josh Allen if that assuages your fears, only difference is Allen is much more stoutly built and less likely to get hurt trying to make a play, but see how far size took Wentz..... I also don't think Darnold can make his reads quickly enough.
Which part of “not suggesting this is your view” doesn’t make sense?
I was asking where you got that information. So I did go to the draft discussion to read the comment by Colin’s colleague.
And for anyone here to suggest they know what a QB’s actual reads are from play to play is making things up. The truth is none of us know. Without seeing the All-22 we can’t even really begin to guess. And without talking to the coaching staff to know the play, the effort becomes even more impossible...
This is bullshit. Jackson’s intelligence is a flag bc it’s true — guy is a dumbass. Has nothing to do with his color. You didn’t hear anything about this with Watson last year and it’s frequently referenced when comparing Watson/Jackson.
Why is he a dumbass?
Don't get it
Me either. There's approx six blue chips in this draft and then the talent falls off, just as in every draft.
All prospects are not created equally, talent is not linear.
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In comment 13855825 section125 said:
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No doubt that Jackson is a gifted athlete, but he is not an NFL QB. He is too far behind the in development. What works in college offense does not work in the NFL. At yesterday's conference with Colin from GBN it was said he does not have the mental part of the game down. Not that he isn't smart enough, but that he cannot make the necessary reads and related decisions and never improved in his 3 years at UL.
There is no way the Giants draft a kid that cannot read defenses. Jerry Jones may be willing to roll the dice in the 2nd, but I just do not see him being ready in two years. I'm not sure how the RPO would work with most teams in the NFL, but I can see him running it somewhere, but not in New York.
Where is this coming from? LamJax played under Bobby Petrino’s pro system. And Petrino is one of the best offensive minds in college football.
I’m not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I don’t think he’s this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - can’t play the position because they aren’t sophisticated enough...
This is bullshit. Jackson’s intelligence is a flag bc it’s true — guy is a dumbass. Has nothing to do with his color. You didn’t hear anything about this with Watson last year and it’s frequently referenced when comparing Watson/Jackson.
This is now several times that I've seen you call Lamar Jackson a "dumbass" or a stupid kid.
What is this based on?
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This is bullshit. Jackson’s intelligence is a flag bc it’s true — guy is a dumbass. Has nothing to do with his color. You didn’t hear anything about this with Watson last year and it’s frequently referenced when comparing Watson/Jackson.
Why is he a dumbass?
There’s a reason Vegas set odds at +1000 for Jackson to post the highest Wonderlic of the top QBs.
Or is Vegas racist too?
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I have a feeling Jackson really isn't on the Giants' radar - so it's probably just a pipe dream anyway .
Something to ponder - Shurmur really liked Bridgewater while in Minny. Maybe he sees a better version of Bridgewater in LamJax...but more mobile in and out of the pocket and better arm...
Somebody commented on Sirius that every DC they encountered at the combine said of Jackson "I hope he doesn't end up in my Division".
When I heard it I had a dark thought that Snyder is going to see this kid as his second chance at the RG3-type player without Shanahan to screw up his master plan.
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In comment 13855825 section125 said:
I’m not suggesting LamJax has an intel football chip in his head like Rosen. But I don’t think he’s this total football dolt either. Not suggesting this is your view, but this rings of the old stereotypes on black QBs - can’t play the position because they aren’t sophisticated enough...
One thing I will not tolerate from anyone is insinuating I'm stereotyping a player. A player hoping to be a top 1st round QB draft choice is going to be scrutinized. Go read yesterday's conference with GBN. There is a reason that a kid with his athletic ability and gifts is not at the head of the QB draft discussion. What is it? He's inaccurate because of poor mechanics and apparently does not make the necessary reads at this time to be drafted high in the 1st round. Colin's cohort yesterday says he has not seen improvement in his reads from his freshman year.
BTW, I feel the same way about Josh Allen if that assuages your fears, only difference is Allen is much more stoutly built and less likely to get hurt trying to make a play, but see how far size took Wentz..... I also don't think Darnold can make his reads quickly enough.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't take him @ 2. It would be a reach.
Any scenario where I'd have NYG taking Jackson would be either if he fell to our 2nd pick or if we had to move up into the tail end of the 1st to get him.
Good lord.
BTW, since you brought up Watson, you may want to know that he posted the lowest Wonderlic score of ANY QB in last year's draft.
Do you think any GM would penalize him for that now based on what he did when he played? I don't. He was fantastic and can clearly handle the pro game.
I absolutely favor staying at #2 and picking a QB to get Eli out door sooner, but its not like we couldn't use improved players and depth at OL, RB, LB and to some extent FS, CB and WR.
And the only way you improve across the board in any reasonable fashion is to stockpile picks and hope to draft well
Elite players play a role as well but not the only one.
Good lord.
BTW, since you brought up Watson, you may want to know that he posted the lowest Wonderlic score of ANY QB in last year's draft.
Do you think any GM would penalize him for that now based on what he did when he played? I don't. He was fantastic and can clearly handle the pro game.
Good point.
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In comment 13855943 WillVAB said:
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This is bullshit. Jackson’s intelligence is a flag bc it’s true — guy is a dumbass. Has nothing to do with his color. You didn’t hear anything about this with Watson last year and it’s frequently referenced when comparing Watson/Jackson.
Why is he a dumbass?
There’s a reason Vegas set odds at +1000 for Jackson to post the highest Wonderlic of the top QBs.
Or is Vegas racist too?
So we’ve been reduced to commenting on a person’s intellect based on Vegas odds?
Please tell me you’re better than this.
I know a lot of people think the Ogletree trade would make us more likely to trade down to get back picks. I think it might actually indicate DG is going for a quick one year retooling vs. a 2-3 year rebuild; meaning that with his picks he will be going for quality vs. quantity.
People keep saying we're more than one year from being a contender. I don't think that's necessarily true. Most people thought the same of the eagles a year ago.
#21 (Bills)
#22 (Bills)
#33 (Browns)
#34 (Giants)*
#35 (Browns)
#55 (Bills)
#66 (Giants)*
#102 (Giants)*
#139 (Giants)*
#166 (Bills)*
I see three scenarios.
Scenario 1: Cleveland takes Barkley first. They then trade up with the Giants, giving up the #4 pick, a second rounder and a third to get to #2 to get the QB they want. Giants wait to see what Indy does. If Indy uses the pick on a non QB (Nelson or Chubb), the Giants could entice the Jets to move up ahead of Denver, who even if they get a vet QB, will likely be looking for a future QB. At #6 in this scenario, the Giants get a shot at Nelson or Chubb (whoever Indy did not take) , Fitzpatrick or even the last QB left of Allen, Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield.
Scenario #2: Cleveland takes a QB- likely Darnold. The Giants take Bradley.
Scenario #3: Cleveland takes a QB- likely Darnold. The Giants trade back to #5 to let Denver grab a QB- maybe get the #5 pick, a second rounder and a 2019 high pick. The Jets then trade with the Colts to grab a QB. Cleveland takes Bradley. The Giants then take one of Nelson, Fitzpatrick or Chubb.
#22 (Bills)
#33 (Browns)
#34 (Giants)*
#35 (Browns)
#55 (Bills)
#66 (Giants)*
#102 (Giants)*
#139 (Giants)*
#166 (Bills)*
+
Bills OT Cordy Glenn & their first round pick next year
Using these picks as an example and looking at the last four drafts would you rather have pick #2 or all the rest?
2014
#2 OT - Greg Robinson
or
#21 FS – HaHa Clinton Dix
#22 QB – Johnny Manziel
#33 OG – Xavier Su’a-Filo
#35 OT – Joel Bitonio
#55 RB – Jeremy Hill
#166 DE – Jon Newsome
2015
#2 QB - Marcus Mariota
or
#21 OT- Cedric Ogbuehi
#22 OLB - Bud Dupree
#33 SS - Landon Collins
#35 DT – Mario Edwards, Jr.
#55 TE – Maxx Williams
#166 LS – Joe Cardona
2016
#2 QB - Carson Wentz
or
#21 WR – Will Fuller
#22 WR - Josh Doctson
#33 DE – Kevin Dodd
#35 TE – Hunter Henry
#55 WR – Tyler Boyd
#166 NT – DJ Reader
2017
#2 QB – Mitchell Trubisky
or
#21 LB – Jarrad Davis
#22 LB - Charles Harris
#33 CB – Kevin King
#35 DT – Malik McDowell
#55 WR – Tyler Boyd DT – Dalvin Tomlinson
#166 WR – Shelton Gibson
and remember to add Bills OT Cordy Glenn & their first round pick next year.
Have to say I would lean towards all the extra picks. Plenty of good talent in the second round for sure. Also remembering that we would be drafting mostly different position players in those spots and we have a good Starting QB for the next 2 years (IMO)
Cle takes a QB at #1, any QB for the purposes of this hypothetical it doesn't matter which one. They then trade up to #2 with us.
We then trade back from #4 to #6 with the Jets.
Done. And still land an elite player.
looks like the Giants front office really screwed Gettleman by not playing Webb last season, because its almost draft time and nobody knows what this kid can do in real time football as a pro, so Gettlemen is going to have to shoot blind in this draft..
Quote:
Vegas odds on a Wonderlic score? That's how we're judging Lamar Jackson's intelligence?
Good lord.
BTW, since you brought up Watson, you may want to know that he posted the lowest Wonderlic score of ANY QB in last year's draft.
Do you think any GM would penalize him for that now based on what he did when he played? I don't. He was fantastic and can clearly handle the pro game.
Good point.
does anybody know how Lawrence Taylor did with the wonderlic test, I would imagine he did not do too well and if thats true then the whole wonderlic business is just plain crapola....
Quote:
In comment 13856022 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Vegas odds on a Wonderlic score? That's how we're judging Lamar Jackson's intelligence?
Good lord.
BTW, since you brought up Watson, you may want to know that he posted the lowest Wonderlic score of ANY QB in last year's draft.
Do you think any GM would penalize him for that now based on what he did when he played? I don't. He was fantastic and can clearly handle the pro game.
Good point.
does anybody know how Lawrence Taylor did with the wonderlic test, I would imagine he did not do too well and if thats true then the whole wonderlic business is just plain crapola....