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Front seven

XBRONX : 3/9/2018 1:37 pm
If the season started tomorrow, what would the starting unit look like.
idiotsavant : 3/9/2018 1:41 pm : link
. or half baked.

Is how it would look.
I think the current personnel fits a 4-3 better so  
Breeze_94 : 3/9/2018 1:52 pm : link
DT- Snacks
DT- Tomlinson
DE- Vernon
MIKE- Goodson
WILL- Ogletree
arcarsenal : 3/9/2018 1:55 pm : link
NT - Harrison
DE - Tomlinson
OLB - Vernon
OLB - Kennard/Moss
ILB - Goodson
ILB - Olgletree
Either way  
Breeze_94 : 3/9/2018 1:55 pm : link
the Giants need a SAM LB or a 3-4 EDGE with some pass-rush capabilities.

Lorenzo Carter, Nwosu, Arden Key, maybe even Kennard
arcarsenal : 3/9/2018 1:56 pm : link
That said -

It's important to note that Bettcher probably isn't going to run anything too "traditional" one way or the other.

I think we'll see several hybrid looks and players in roles we perhaps hadn't seen them play before.

But in a base, the above is more or less what I'd expect.
I think they have a decent 3-4 look as well  
NYG07 : 3/9/2018 1:57 pm : link
When they want to use it...

NT Snacks
DE Tomlinson

OLB Vernon
ILB Goodson
ILB Ogletree
OLB Moss?

I am not sure I see JPP as a 3-4 OLB. He would need to shed some weight.
RE: I think they have a decent 3-4 look as well  
Rjanyg : 3/9/2018 2:20 pm : link
In comment 13856293 NYG07 said:
When they want to use it...

NT Snacks
DE Tomlinson

OLB Vernon
ILB Goodson
ILB Ogletree
OLB Moss?

I am not sure I see JPP as a 3-4 OLB. He would need to shed some weight.

Okwara may be a OLB as well so you can pencil him in with Avery Moss on the left side. I think this will be a target position in the draft. Taray out of Rutgers in rounds 4-5
I don't think we'll see a classic 3-4 look  
BillT : 3/9/2018 2:46 pm : link
Vernon isn't an OLB nor is JPP. Snacks and Tomlinson are a top 5 pair of 4-3 DTs. But what do I know.
RE: I don't think we'll see a classic 3-4 look  
arcarsenal : 3/9/2018 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13856336 BillT said:
Vernon isn't an OLB nor is JPP. Snacks and Tomlinson are a top 5 pair of 4-3 DTs. But what do I know.

I think Vernon would be excellent as a 3-4 OLB

As good as Snacks has been so far, he's really a prototypical 3-4 NT. He'd probably be the best one in football - he was up there when he was playing there w/ NYJ.

Tomlinson played quite a bit of DE @ Alabama. Wouldn't be a problem for him.

JPP can anchor well as a 3-4 DE and is fantastic as a run defender. He's too heavy to play OLB - he'd have to shed a little weight to do that.

In any event - like I said, I don't see Bettcher running anything overly "traditional" here. I think we'll see quite a few hybrid looks and different wrinkles. He's very creative and likes to use smaller, faster players in his back 7 - which I think plays better the way the league is set up now with fewer teams lining up trying to ram the ball down the defenses gut.
Too much 80s paradigm  
RetroJint : 3/9/2018 3:13 pm : link
in this thread. This isnít Parcellsís 3-4 , 2-gap, 250 lb plugger , Cover 2 defense. This is the amoeba 3-4. Itís 1-gap. Itís designed to avoid or confuse blockers, not take them on. But one thing Iíll say about those names mentioned above : SLOW. Even the Steelers have committed to inside speed . When Shazier went down, they were screwed .

I will think they will move Collins up a level. He canít play deep coverage .

To me front 3 of  
idiotsavant : 3/9/2018 3:14 pm : link

Is a bit too light as an every down front 3 in the cold NFC East with Dallas looming.

Think JPD swings between nominally OLB and sometimes '3/4 end' '3 tech or 5 tech' (and we draft one of Vita via, lotulele or..forget the names, other 2 or so blue chip 320+ dt this year into the mix both to rotate w snacks and play next to him) both factors depending on opponent and down and distance.

Additionally, jpp may benefit from getting a bit slimmer and limber as prior. So Not needing to get beat up on every down as a front 3 unit member other than as above opponent down distance factors and variably.

Expect at least one more speedy heady ILB drafted at this time.

So it's

Tomlinson/Harrison/Lotulele or Vea or similar outstanding 2 or 3 of these types in the draft at 320lbs+ that can rush a bit in addition. Dayron Payne or whomever. Front 3.


Slimmed down Jpp/Collins and or high draft pick/ogletree/Vernon

You want speedy small ilbs so you need some major beef up front ...for the NFC East.

Swing the olbs inside front opportunistically and variably rather than as a base and outside front often variably as well

Totally agree with retro  
idiotsavant : 3/9/2018 3:25 pm : link
I just feel that whom we consider "nose types".. we often consider that they cannot attack single gaps effectively and it ain't always true.

Some certainly can ..and at the same time offer less risk vs, for example, power runs or vs double blocks... ergo freeing up your ilbs duties to flow in cover/zone or to edges.

In other words - Field at least 2 320lbs plus great/multi skilled DTS in your front 3 ....whichever way you assign gaps.. and it helps enable speed type players in the D everywhere else in the other 9 players....or especially in ilbs and Add your other harrison in front 3 and then yoy can replace goodson with collins or what have you.

Your extra pass rushers are your olbs not your ilbs.
If they brought back Kennard  
SLIM_ : 3/9/2018 3:31 pm : link
I think we would have a pretty solid front 7 with Snacks/Tomlinson/JPP in front of Vernon/Ogletree/Goodson/Kennard. If they can upgrade even better.

Not trying to miller and I know there was a thread days ago regarding him probably not returning (I didn't get a chance to read or post) but I thought Kerri Wynn would probably make a better 3-4 end than 4-3 swing man. I think he has solid size now and a frame that can add some more weight. His problem was that he slow twitch athlete. I think his best spot may be as a 2 gap lineman.
arcarsenal : 3/9/2018 3:33 pm : link
I mean, these are the players we have.

Regardless of what their gap responsibilities are or how Bettcher's defense is going to differ from classic 3-4's of the past, these are the guys on the team and where they're most likely to play in base packages.

I'd like to have some more speed on the field at the second level. Ogie moves well - Vernon moves better than people realize. I'd love to get another edge rusher who can really shoot around.

Goodson has the tools to play ILB/MIKE and will be fine there if he can stay healthy.
est1986 : 3/9/2018 3:52 pm : link
NT - Snacks
LDE - Tomlinson
LOLB - 34th pick Harold Landry

ILB -Goodson
ILB - Ogletree

CB - Jack Rabbit
FS - trade Apple and the 4th round pick for Tyrann Mathieu
SS - Collins

since i'm in fantasy land right now, might as well do the offense too

QB - Manning
RB - 2nd pick Barkley
TE - Engram
WR - Shepard
WR - 139th pick Michael Gallup
LT - Solder
LG - Norwell
C - Jones
RG - 66th pick Braden Smith
RT - Flowers

key free agents: Norwell and Solder
draft picks: Barkley, Landry, Braden Smith, Mathieu, Ogletree, Gallup (kinda just picked Gallup randomly)

and btw yeah I already know this isn't happening but boy talk about going all in right now for Eli's last 'hurrah'
Even in a 3/4  
idiotsavant : 3/9/2018 3:58 pm : link
Your '3/4 end' at times has to function like an interior run defender...with your olbs at the line outside and maybe a center/guard combo for your 'end' (not AT the end in that instance) to contend with.

And while it's true that jpp has lined up inside and stopped runs showing great body Controll and cat like quickness at times...I think it's diminishing his potential to ask.him to do only that - potentially anyway - play after play. Prefer him as olb pass rusher run defender and never having two ols or two gaps to contend with.

Similarly. Whereas in the old 3/4 you had a player at the zero this you may not...very often at all.

Harrison is great enough to consider that asking him to two gap all game long is to waste opportunity with him on the field. Opportunity to.let him wreck shit inside.

I don't see goodson starting.

I dont see olbs much in cover... Believe that's mainly for ilbs here in this deal.

Like a 5-0-6 in that your '3/4 olbs' are 'built like 4/3 ends' and your ilbs are 'like safeties'
Two things about aggressive one gapping  
idiotsavant : 3/9/2018 4:11 pm : link
1. You can dictate to the OL which gap is going to be unnatended from play to play. Something your lbs know but the opponent's RB doesn't know.

2. Great interior D linesmen can stop or temporarily impede runs behind the line -even- when those runs are heading for a different gap than the one they just rushed through (by going horizontal or turning or reaching out an arm)

3. Put emphasis on interior pass rush

4. Less at arms length watching two gaps technique ergo more attacking more disruptive to qb
4 things  
idiotsavant : 3/9/2018 4:13 pm : link
Players and Schemes  
Rafflee : 3/10/2018 8:10 am : link
The 4 DL's played on low tanks without much rest last year. JPP and Vernon are pretty much set as "hands in the dirt" guys, and they both have rotated inside effectively. Vernon might be able stand up and play once in a while...I think that's a stretch for JPP.

The Ogletree Move is Huge, and expect more to come. The D Line rotation may become 3 for 4 slots when they have 3 down. I think that's going to be a Major Productivity boost. If Vernon can stand up and play outside, it will be a big bonus.

I'm trusting that they'll be more devoted to what their players can do versus their scheme.

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