... with the first overall pick.
Brandt said that Cleveland needs to use the first overall pick on the BPA. He said that that player is clearly Barkley.
Specifically, Brandt said:
"At the combine, Barkley was Secretariat and the other guys were just plow horses. He's also a quality individual." |
I hope Cleveland doesn't follow Brandt's advice, leaving Barkley for Giants.
The Browns just acquired a vet QB with one year remaining on his contract in Taylor. They need to get the best QB in this draft. The question is, which one is the best?
Barkley IS the best player in this draft but Cleveland needs to secure their future QB first. This is why I still think s possible trade offer from Cleveland to grab pick 2 is a real possibility. They want Barkley but also their QB. I think it is Darnold.
I am not sure the Giants would want to trade out unless the offer was unreal. We are talking pick, 4,33,35 101 and a 2019 1st round pick.
We will see if they take Barkley.
On a side note, after listening to Dave Te, I’m warming to Josh Allen as a fit for the Giants.
Ideally, there would be rumors of teams trying to jump ahead of Cleveland's 4th overall pick in a trade with Indy, forcing Cleveland to turn to the Giants. The Giants giving up the 2nd overall should leave them with the 4th overall pick (800 pt difference using the old Jimmy Johnson chart), plus Clevelands's first two picks in the 2nd round (33rd overall is 580 pts and 35th overall is 550 pts). The Giants would have the 4th overall pick and the first 3 picks in the 2nd round.
The Giants could keep all 3 2nd round picks, or trade 2 of them to jump back into the middle of the 1st round (around pick 16).
If the Giants don't end up with Barkley, having the 4th, 33rd, 34th and 35th overall picks would be a decent consolation prize.
AND their choice of the Draft QBs if they trade with us for the #2 over-all pick
This draft is about BPA. I know the Jimmy Johnson "points scale" has somewhat fallen out of favor, but it is still a decent "relative value" tool. The Giants 2nd overall pick of 2600 point is worth more than Denver's (5th overall) entire draft.
I believe in 2000 the Chargers took Tomlinson with the first pick (5th overall), then took Drew Brees with their first pick early in the 2nd round.
The bust rate for 1st round QBs worries me a lot. The Giants need to get "high probability value" from the 2nd overall pick. That's via Barkley or a trade down.
AND their choice of the Draft QBs if they trade with us for the #2 over-all pick
After watching how aggressive Cleveland is being with trades, I would find it hard to believe that they are not considering jumping up to number 2 and taking the 2 best players on their board. That is an opportunity that just doesn't come along very often if ever.
If Cleveland has 2 players rated higher than all the other players and consider them to be franchise changers would they rather have picks 1 and 2 or 1 and 4 and their two high second round picks. They still would have a 2nd round pick at the end of the round.
The question ofcourse is do the Giants have 2 players rated higher than everyone one else or after their top rated player are the next few players all on even footing and are they thinking QB.
This is really one of the most interesting drafts that have come along in a long time, and ofcourse more interesting because of the Giants position.
I hope Cleveland gets put under enormous pressure to draft a QB with the first overall pick, which they do, and they assume that the Giants and maybe the Colts pick (via trade) goes for QBs too and Barkley is still there for them at 4th overall.
If Cleveland goes QB number 1, Gettleman (or the Giants rep at the draft), should do a 4.4 40 to turn in the card for Barkley.
No one thinks Barkley isn't WORTH the #2 overall pick. But there are 2-3 QBs who are also worth the #2 pick and the Giants need a QB in order to have any chance to compete.
No, Not a chance the Giants draft him. Zero.
In comment 13859413 ryanmkeane said:
I just can't see how they pass on the best QB (whoever they think that is) in the draft. If they take Barkley, they not only do that but they give all the power in this draft to the Giants. There is no more reason for the Giants to trade with Cleveland than with anyone else that needs a QB.
Cleveland can't be this cute IMHO.
Barkley isn't going to be there at 4. But they could still get a great RB in round 2. Of course, you could say that about any of the teams drafting at the top of round 1.
I think Barkley is either going 1 or 2.
I agree. Teams are starved for QBs and if the Browns select Darnold, the Giants go with Rosen I could see the Colts trade their pick to a team like Bills desperate for a QB, or the Colts select Nelson, and Barkley is there for the Browns at 4.
I would imagine here on Mar 12th, the top QBs in this draft are all ranked differently on the prelim boards of all the teams.
and may very well be on Draft Day too...
Add a short shelf life against the need for QB quality and Longevity/Stability---- The Browns would be wiser to take a QB at 1 and 4 versus pasing on their top QB Choice
New GM Dorsey would be roasted if he passed on. QB at 1 since that’s what got the previous GM fired.
There is only one Saquon Barkley in this draft and he happens to be the highest rated prospect at any position in years.
There are a handful of QBs and I'm not sure if anyone can say with much certainty who is going to be the best. None of which seem to be the slam dunk Barkley is.
You can't mess around with the qb position in this league.
You have no idea what will be there in round 2 or any other round.
Just because the draft might be deep at one position, doesn't mean that a player at that position - with the skillset you are looking for - will be available.
You can't mess around with the qb position in this league.
none of these QBs are Eli/Ben/Rivers. That's where you and all the others run into a problem. And it seems that most of the league is coming around to that conclusion. This QB calss can be good, but all of them have serious ?? and none are sure bets that you absolutely must spend a top 5 pick on.
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Eli/Roethlisberger/Rivers or a 230 lb Marshall Faulk?
You can't mess around with the qb position in this league.
none of these QBs are Eli/Ben/Rivers. That's where you and all the others run into a problem. And it seems that most of the league is coming around to that conclusion. This QB calss can be good, but all of them have serious ?? and none are sure bets that you absolutely must spend a top 5 pick on.
There's a reason Roethlisberger was an absolute steal at 11, it's once in a generation you get a Luck or Elway. This class of qb is a bit more flawed, but also some great pluses. Darnold fills out the most checkboxes, Rosen could be a more athletic Tom Brady, and Allen is the reincarnation of John Elway. I don't care for Mayfield.
Darnold is going to be a stud. He's got Luck type ability. Give him a year behind Eli to work on fumble issues and tweaks to motion and he will be the next of NFLs rising star QBs, possibly along with Wentz.
If he's not there, you go Barkley. You have uncertainty for future at QB, so spend a year working to develop Webb and see where you are next year.
These are the two who can have the biggest impact on the team. Rosen and Allen too perhaps, but more risks there you let someone else take a gamble on.
For Christ sakes, let's not over think this one.
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But not worth our #2 pick?
No one thinks Barkley isn't WORTH the #2 overall pick. But there are 2-3 QBs who are also worth the #2 pick and the Giants need a QB in order to have any chance to compete.
Did Eli die?
And plenty of people in here have stated that it would be stupid to pick a RB at #2.
Darnold is going to be a stud. He's got Luck type ability. Give him a year behind Eli to work on fumble issues and tweaks to motion and he will be the next of NFLs rising star QBs, possibly along with Wentz.
If he's not there, you go Barkley. You have uncertainty for future at QB, so spend a year working to develop Webb and see where you are next year.
These are the two who can have the biggest impact on the team. Rosen and Allen too perhaps, but more risks there you let someone else take a gamble on.
For Christ sakes, let's not over think this one.
That's basically what I believe as well, although I wouldn't be disappointed with Rosen either.
Darnold is going to be a stud. He's got Luck type ability. Give him a year behind Eli to work on fumble issues and tweaks to motion and he will be the next of NFLs rising star QBs, possibly along with Wentz.
If he's not there, you go Barkley. You have uncertainty for future at QB, so spend a year working to develop Webb and see where you are next year.
These are the two who can have the biggest impact on the team. Rosen and Allen too perhaps, but more risks there you let someone else take a gamble on.
For Christ sakes, let's not over think this one.
I 100% agree that it should not be over thought. Take whomever is left between Darnold and Barkley. It's a win win situation. If Darnold hits a home run at his pro day on March 21st, this discussion will be pretty much moot IMO.
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It should be Darnold or Barkley. And I really like Rosen but I think there are risks there we can avoid.
Darnold is going to be a stud. He's got Luck type ability. Give him a year behind Eli to work on fumble issues and tweaks to motion and he will be the next of NFLs rising star QBs, possibly along with Wentz.
If he's not there, you go Barkley. You have uncertainty for future at QB, so spend a year working to develop Webb and see where you are next year.
These are the two who can have the biggest impact on the team. Rosen and Allen too perhaps, but more risks there you let someone else take a gamble on.
For Christ sakes, let's not over think this one.
I 100% agree that it should not be over thought. Take whomever is left between Darnold and Barkley. It's a win win situation. If Darnold hits a home run at his pro day on March 21st, this discussion will be pretty much moot IMO.
Then it could become a Rosen or Barkley decision.
yep
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Is if they tread up to #2 to take their QB. Otherwise, they take QB at #1.
yep
not necessarily. from all indications there are 4 QBs slated for the top of the draft in Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen, then possibly Jackson later in Rd 1. All have their warts. What if they like all of them but have no conviction on any of the 4 and believe that they can develop any one of them?
I just don't have an interest in any of these QBs with Eli and Webb on the roster.
The Browns have backed themselves into a corner to take THE QB of their dreams. (Which they can STILL have, if they trade with us).
IF they take Barkley (Which they'd be out-of-their minds not to), they risk us taking the QB they really want (Which doesn't have to happen if they trade with us).
Recall, Ernie wanted Eli (over Rivers and Rothlisberger) and gave up the farm for him. Jumping up from #4 to #2 is not going to cost what it did the Giants, back then
AND their choice of the Draft QBs if they trade with us for the #2 over-all pick
To ensure they get Barkley & that specific QB, they'd have to work a deal with the Giants.
Anything is possible.
I agree, Keith. They need to finally get their QB. The question is "Do the Giants believe Eli & Webb are good enough"?
This draft could go in so many ways.