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Jason Pierre Paul and Olivier Vernon

GoBlue6599 : 3/12/2018 1:03 pm
Jpp season last year
70 tackles 8.5 sacks 11 tackles for loss and 5 pass break ups all while playing a full 16 games.. Not all pro worthy but a pretty good year
Vernon was obviously injured for a good amount of games but was 2nd team all pro in 2016
My point being I see people ripping these guys every chance they get but in reality this is a damn good pair of bookends when healthy I know the contracts are huge but hey you can do alot worse then these 2 in this league and it's not easy to do a whole lot better
Sidenote hard to believe JPP way back in 2011 was the last quality DL this franchise has drafted ..
I am  
mdthedream : 3/12/2018 1:05 pm : link
glad we have them. Time for a new coaching change and a healthy WR core.Looking forward to next season.
You just lit the bat signal...  
figgy2989 : 3/12/2018 1:07 pm : link
.
RE: I am  
GoBlue6599 : 3/12/2018 1:08 pm : link
In comment 13859899 mdthedream said:
Quote:
glad we have them. Time for a new coaching change and a healthy WR core.Looking forward to next season.

Last year was not the best but i dont mind moving forward over the next few seasons with these 2... U can do alot worse in this league and it's not easier to find better
keep em  
Mr. Nickels : 3/12/2018 1:09 pm : link
for now but do everything you can to groom their replacements
need depth  
bc4life : 3/12/2018 1:12 pm : link
big guys playing that many reps are going to get tired. and turn nicks into nagging injuries
JPP and Vernon are what they are...  
Breeze_94 : 3/12/2018 1:12 pm : link
2 B level players, maybe B-pluses in a good year who are making A-level money.

Bottom line is they are both very useful players. Not the most dynamic guys but they play the run well and are good for 7-10 sacks a year if healthy.
Won't one of them  
mack809f : 3/12/2018 1:13 pm : link
be moved to LB?
...  
Toth029 : 3/12/2018 1:13 pm : link
Most of JPP's sacks came in two games. Just....no.
They both played waaay to many snaps  
antdog24 : 3/12/2018 1:14 pm : link
We need a better rotation.
curious to see JPP in the Chandler Jones type role  
OdellBeckhamJr : 3/12/2018 1:15 pm : link
AZ wanted to sign JPP to play that position but they lost out on him and traded for Jones
Stats are ok/good  
JonC : 3/12/2018 1:15 pm : link
but if you watched them in iso play after play, your perspective would change.
RE: Won't one of them  
Rjanyg : 3/12/2018 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13859928 mack809f said:
Quote:
be moved to LB?


When they give an odd front, OV will be an OLB.

They will be multiple in the schemes so you must look at the DE/OLB as edge players, which both JPP and OV are. If they give a 4 man front JPP could move inside like he did in 2011, his best year.
BBI doesnt like JPP  
Chris684 : 3/12/2018 1:19 pm : link
never really has.

The main concerns/problems with JPP are two-fold. Very injury prone and not the sharpest tool in the shed. I have never seen an individual who doesn't give effort. To my eye, I feel I'm always seeing the opposite with him, chasing down run plays from behind, not quitting on plays, etc.

Regarding injuries, it's been a bad back, shoulder, groin/hernia that has affected him or kept him out at various times throughout his career. But he has also played through a lot of it and played pretty well considering.

Because he's not the brightest guy, he accidentally blew off his hand with fireworks, which to me was more of a personal tragedy for him than it was an indication of a selfish or bad guy. He also provides some of the weirdest, almost nonsensical interviews which I think turns a lot of fans off.

It is what it is.

My take on JPP is that he is a very good player who should have been great. A little disappointing from that standpoint but he does have one great season under his belt which directly led to a Super Bowl title, so for that I will always think highly of him.
Bottom line IMO is they both played  
pjcas18 : 3/12/2018 1:21 pm : link
way too much.

Giants need some solid depth at the position to keep them both fresh.


RE: Stats are ok/good  
GoBlue6599 : 3/12/2018 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13859938 JonC said:
Quote:
but if you watched them in iso play after play, your perspective would change.

I never miss a game ... Last year was a average year for Vernon with all the injuries and JPP was up and down but I wouldn't classify his year as bad.
My point being you can do alot worse then these 2 and it aint easy to do alot better
Biggest problem on Defense last year was our horrible, pitiful Offense and our back 7 couldn't cover or tackle people
I'd agree you could a lot worse  
JonC : 3/12/2018 1:25 pm : link
but they were a huge part of the team's struggles last year. Get a stop? Good luck. Pass rush? Nope.

The issue with both players is productive relative to cost is way out of whack, and it trickles into other areas of the team going unimproved as a result.
JPP  
dep026 : 3/12/2018 1:26 pm : link
was by far the most disappointing Giant. I mean he was so bad, it was time to start thinking about benching him. Throw any stat out the door with him.
RE: BBI doesnt like JPP  
GoBlue6599 : 3/12/2018 1:28 pm : link
In comment 13859949 Chris684 said:
Quote:
never really has.

The main concerns/problems with JPP are two-fold. Very injury prone and not the sharpest tool in the shed. I have never seen an individual who doesn't give effort. To my eye, I feel I'm always seeing the opposite with him, chasing down run plays from behind, not quitting on plays, etc.

Regarding injuries, it's been a bad back, shoulder, groin/hernia that has affected him or kept him out at various times throughout his career. But he has also played through a lot of it and played pretty well considering.

Because he's not the brightest guy, he accidentally blew off his hand with fireworks, which to me was more of a personal tragedy for him than it was an indication of a selfish or bad guy. He also provides some of the weirdest, almost nonsensical interviews which I think turns a lot of fans off.

It is what it is.

My take on JPP is that he is a very good player who should have been great. A little disappointing from that standpoint but he does have one great season under his belt which directly led to a Super Bowl title, so for that I will always think highly of him.

I cant understand how people have personal vendettas against particular players.. Very strange
How can you not like a guy who has played for your fav team for this long and made so many plays for this franchise
Also the effort thing with JPP the guy plays 90% of the snaps give me a break people who wanna question effort from there sofa lmao
Also don't question his intelligence bro it's insulting and foolish .. The guy made a mistake like we all have in our lives
RE: Won't one of them  
BillT : 3/12/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13859928 mack809f said:
Quote:
be moved to LB?

This is why I don't see a classic 3-4. Moving JJP or Vernon to LB! Sounds like one of the worst ideas I can imagine.
JPP is overpaid & descending, Vernon is overpaid & needs a role  
Eric on Li : 3/12/2018 1:35 pm : link
Reese made a huge mistake resigning JPP to that contract. He has never been a consistent performer, even without considering the hand injury. In his case you just need to find a way to get whatever you can out of him until his contract is cuttable.

Vernon is still a good player. Overpaid due to FA, yes. But he can consistently make an impact if the DC can find a role that fits him.

And as others said, neither player can be counted on to play the amount of plays as they've played the last couple years. Need to have a rotation and keep them doing what they do best.
JPP was not good  
giantstock : 3/12/2018 1:37 pm : link
I don;t know what some of you guys were watching. When the season counted early he was AWOL.

JPP needs rest as well as Vernon. I'd definitely look to get a Defensive End in the draft. 2nd round while getting 3 OLinemen in Free Agency.



RE: RE: Won't one of them  
Rjanyg : 3/12/2018 1:38 pm : link
In comment 13859971 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 13859928 mack809f said:


Quote:


be moved to LB?


This is why I don't see a classic 3-4. Moving JJP or Vernon to LB! Sounds like one of the worst ideas I can imagine.


Except Vernon played some OLB with Miami before he came here and he has rushed from a 2 point stance many times since becoming a Giant. I doubt he is the 275 he is listed at anyway. He is a weak side edge rusher and can drop into the flat if necessary. Not much of a stretch for him.
JPP  
ryanmkeane : 3/12/2018 1:38 pm : link
is still good for 1 great play per game, but the rest of them are just pretty average for what he's making. Need more of an impact from both of these guys next year
How the hell are either going to play linebacker ?  
RetroJint : 3/12/2018 1:39 pm : link
They are both way overpaid but will have substantial roles in 18. Maybe not beyond. Third and long- both will be out there with their hand on the ground . JPP had one game last year. Vernon is always nicked .

Gettleman fancies himself a line builder -both sides-so get to work !
spot on with both posts JonC.  
Victor in CT : 3/12/2018 1:41 pm : link
neither one is a great player, and they aren't going to get better now, especially JPP.

I do think ttat Vernon might be able to play OLB and be effective. He does have a motor. Do you think that is possible JonC?
RE: RE: RE: Won't one of them  
BillT : 3/12/2018 1:42 pm : link
In comment 13859984 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
In comment 13859971 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 13859928 mack809f said:


Quote:


be moved to LB?


This is why I don't see a classic 3-4. Moving JJP or Vernon to LB! Sounds like one of the worst ideas I can imagine.



Except Vernon played some OLB with Miami before he came here and he has rushed from a 2 point stance many times since becoming a Giant. I doubt he is the 275 he is listed at anyway. He is a weak side edge rusher and can drop into the flat if necessary. Not much of a stretch for him.

Not really convinced. He's excellent as a hand in the dirt DE that plays the run well That he stands up on pass rush downs or can "drop into the flat" doesn't make him a LB.
It depends how they deploy each in a 3-4  
JonC : 3/12/2018 1:43 pm : link
If he's coming off the edge and he's playing downhill heading straight for the QB, I dig it. Same with JPP. You won't want these guys having to backpeddle, change directions, and try to move around laterally in space to cover zones too much.
Both need to take a paycut  
BigBlue4You09 : 3/12/2018 1:45 pm : link
.
RE: BBI doesnt like JPP  
NikkiMac : 3/12/2018 1:45 pm : link
In comment 13859949 Chris684 said:
Quote:
never really has.

The main concerns/problems with JPP are two-fold. Very injury prone and not the sharpest tool in the shed. I have never seen an individual who doesn't give effort. To my eye, I feel I'm always seeing the opposite with him, chasing down run plays from behind, not quitting on plays, etc.

Regarding injuries, it's been a bad back, shoulder, groin/hernia that has affected him or kept him out at various times throughout his career. But he has also played through a lot of it and played pretty well considering.

Because he's not the brightest guy, he accidentally blew off his hand with fireworks, which to me was more of a personal tragedy for him than it was an indication of a selfish or bad guy. He also provides some of the weirdest, almost nonsensical interviews which I think turns a lot of fans off.

It is what it is.

My take on JPP is that he is a very good player who should have been great. A little disappointing from that standpoint but he does have one great season under his belt which directly led to a Super Bowl title, so for that I will always think highly of him.


The problem with JPP is he never played a lot of football before college .....

I donít think he played much high school ball but heís a great athlete for a man his size which makes up for his lack of football knowledge I would think ,so in essence heís one of those guys that keeps learning stuff everyday .... and when he wants he does hustle pretty darn good.
RE: BBI doesnt like JPP  
NikkiMac : 3/12/2018 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13859949 Chris684 said:
Quote:
never really has.

The main concerns/problems with JPP are two-fold. Very injury prone and not the sharpest tool in the shed. I have never seen an individual who doesn't give effort. To my eye, I feel I'm always seeing the opposite with him, chasing down run plays from behind, not quitting on plays, etc.

Regarding injuries, it's been a bad back, shoulder, groin/hernia that has affected him or kept him out at various times throughout his career. But he has also played through a lot of it and played pretty well considering.

Because he's not the brightest guy, he accidentally blew off his hand with fireworks, which to me was more of a personal tragedy for him than it was an indication of a selfish or bad guy. He also provides some of the weirdest, almost nonsensical interviews which I think turns a lot of fans off.

It is what it is.

My take on JPP is that he is a very good player who should have been great. A little disappointing from that standpoint but he does have one great season under his belt which directly led to a Super Bowl title, so for that I will always think highly of him.


The problem with JPP is he never played a lot of football before college .....

I donít think he played much high school ball but heís a great athlete for a man his size which makes up for his lack of football knowledge I would think ,so in essence heís one of those guys that keeps learning stuff everyday .... and when he wants he does hustle pretty darn good.
I'd love to see JPP playing at 260  
jlukes : 3/12/2018 1:46 pm : link
rather than 290
RE: BBI doesnt like JPP  
NikkiMac : 3/12/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13859949 Chris684 said:
Quote:
never really has.

The main concerns/problems with JPP are two-fold. Very injury prone and not the sharpest tool in the shed. I have never seen an individual who doesn't give effort. To my eye, I feel I'm always seeing the opposite with him, chasing down run plays from behind, not quitting on plays, etc.

Regarding injuries, it's been a bad back, shoulder, groin/hernia that has affected him or kept him out at various times throughout his career. But he has also played through a lot of it and played pretty well considering.

Because he's not the brightest guy, he accidentally blew off his hand with fireworks, which to me was more of a personal tragedy for him than it was an indication of a selfish or bad guy. He also provides some of the weirdest, almost nonsensical interviews which I think turns a lot of fans off.

It is what it is.

My take on JPP is that he is a very good player who should have been great. A little disappointing from that standpoint but he does have one great season under his belt which directly led to a Super Bowl title, so for that I will always think highly of him.


The problem with JPP is he never played a lot of football before college .....

I donít think he played much high school ball but heís a great athlete for a man his size which makes up for his lack of football knowledge I would think ,so in essence heís one of those guys that keeps learning stuff everyday .... and when he wants he does hustle pretty darn good.
RE: I'd love to see JPP playing at 260  
jvm52106 : 3/12/2018 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13859999 jlukes said:
Quote:
rather than 290


If so he will be a more stand up outside guy as he won't be able to anchor the end spot in our new 3-4 (ish) alignment.
RE: It depends how they deploy each in a 3-4  
Victor in CT : 3/12/2018 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13859994 JonC said:
Quote:
If he's coming off the edge and he's playing downhill heading straight for the QB, I dig it. Same with JPP. You won't want these guys having to backpeddle, change directions, and try to move around laterally in space to cover zones too much.


Thanks
RE: I'd love to see JPP playing at 260  
JonC : 3/12/2018 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13859999 jlukes said:
Quote:
rather than 290


He's a different athlete at 270, much more effective and tends to stay healthier.
Sorry malfunctions on the IPad  
NikkiMac : 3/12/2018 1:48 pm : link
Sorry for the triple post
270 for him is good I agree  
NikkiMac : 3/12/2018 1:49 pm : link
John
Because both of them make a ton of money  
chuckydee9 : 3/12/2018 1:55 pm : link
BBI is sour on them.. but BBI forgets that they are over worked.. DEs shouldn't be playing 95% of snaps.. you need rotation on DLine.. They also have no push up the middle.. this puts them in a tough spot where most DEs have the luxury of having some push up the middle..

What ticks me off the most about BBI and JPP relationship is that people thinks he is lazy and does put 100% effort.. I bet he puts more effort into each play than 95% of BBIers ever put into their work.. I just don't buy that he doesn't put the effort..
RE: Sorry malfunctions on the IPad  
OdellBeckhamJr : 3/12/2018 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13860009 NikkiMac said:
Quote:
Sorry for the triple post


classic old people on the internet
JPP gets stonewalled at the LOS or even pushed further out  
Jimmy Googs : 3/12/2018 2:01 pm : link
than any DE in his price range.

In his early years he used his freakish athleticism and raw effort to make his mark. But back issues slowed him down, and then a blown off hand & money in his pocket have turned him into a non-factor for games on end.

Every now and then he gets to face a weak backup or rookie Tackle and then he, all of sudden, is seen around the QB. Most times he hangs around the LOS though.

we were robbed...

JPP is becoming a liability,  
prdave73 : 3/12/2018 2:15 pm : link
and is costing the Giants to much. His play is not worth they money he is getting paid. Giants need to find a solution with him soon.
JPP isn't a liability  
KWALL2 : 3/12/2018 2:22 pm : link
He's overpaid. But he can still help any team.

He needs to cut some weight and drop his snap count.

We also need an explosive edge rusher to help. Right now we don't have one.

Draft Turay from Rutgers in round 3 as a situational rush guy. He'll impact year 1.
I'm.pushing for a bad assed snacks clone DT this  
idiotsavant : 3/12/2018 3:13 pm : link
Draft.

High or high ish pick.

Your going to see some lighter faster ilbs and all parts of the front 7, including a slimmed down JPP, Vernon, would function better with two snackes types up front.

That's not to the exclusion of drafting more olb/4 type de's either.

The lines are an emphasis this year.

Expect jpp and Vernon to have more designed attack lanes less 'holdem up and wait'

RE: ...  
djm : 3/12/2018 7:09 pm : link
In comment 13859931 Toth029 said:
Quote:
Most of JPP's sacks came in two games. Just....no.


No to your terribly flawed argument.
JPP  
JerseyCityJoe : 3/12/2018 8:33 pm : link
Gets stoned on the line way too much for his pay grade and runs out of gas early on. Likes to dish it out but does not like to take it. His contract was a gift from heaven.
A-  
Dragon : 3/12/2018 11:45 pm : link
Both of these guys are making A++ money and playing C+ maybe but nothing about pay cuts for these guys?
Elite money for non-elite players  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 1:46 am : link
There were elite offensive linemen on the market for less money in spring 2016, but we spent huge on these two. And here we are with a sorry offensive line and no pass rush.

We might not end up in cap hell, but where the money is spent still matters. These two contracts have been disasters.
If you're putting JPP under the under the microscope,  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 3/13/2018 3:05 am : link
give him credit for his 47 passes batted away at the line of scrimmage. Very consistent averaging six per season.

Not a sack, but prevents pass completion.

And not everyone has that skill. Vernon in five year career has exactly 1.
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