hoping to draft someone with the talent that Beckham has, and you want to trade him to get more picks to try and draft someone who has his talent (or find some other way to replace him).
Think about that.
You don't trade Odell Beckham until and unless you have to. He's a generational talent.
It might be better to trade him now, since it is unlikely that he will get his desired contract. In all likelihood he will pout and be" injured" until he gets his deal. NFL is probably looking into video, Suspension ?
Maybe shuffle him off to Buffalo in trade for one of their 1st round picks.
And watch him don his gold jacket for another team.
T.O. will be donning one soon as well (0 rings).
Great argument...
BTW, he came back early from a broken leg, was a huge reason PHI was in a position to make a SB run to begin with and was fantastic in the Super Bowl. 9 catches for 122 yards at less than 100%.
If factors beyond his control had been different, he'd have a Super Bowl ring.
Just like Randy Moss would have if not for a miraculous helmet catch or no PI call against Crabtree in the endzone when SF lost to BAL in 2013.
BTW, Plaxico Burress and Jeremy Shockey - both guys whom detractors said would never win anything - both have rings and both made the game winning TD reception in those games.
So spare me this stupid fucking argument that elite WR's or "distractions" never win anything. It's garbage.
I guess being one of the most dynamic threats in the league doesn't qualify as a pro?
Look, I think that allowing himself to be recorded in bed with a woman doing coke is a completely braindead move, and I agree that the Giants will be looking at this closely to see if they can penalize Odell in some way, but the reason this story has gotten so much traction is because he is one of the most exciting players out there. You look foolish when you don't at least acknowledge that.
does wonders for his image throughout the league. Norman and the rest of the Bogart corners were calling him “faggot” to get in his cage. Seriously what the hell would the Giants do trading him? He’s never going to be a paragon of emotional stability like Jerry Rice. He’s a screwball . But he’s their last great player. Do you realize that ?
It might be better to trade him now, since it is unlikely that he will get his desired contract. In all likelihood he will pout and be" injured" until he gets his deal. NFL is probably looking into video, Suspension ?
Maybe shuffle him off to Buffalo in trade for one of their 1st round picks.
Why would Buffalo give up a 1st Rounder for an injured cry baby that wants a new contract?
And watch him don his gold jacket for another team.
T.O. will be donning one soon as well (0 rings).
Great argument...
BTW, he came back early from a broken leg, was a huge reason PHI was in a position to make a SB run to begin with and was fantastic in the Super Bowl. 9 catches for 122 yards at less than 100%.
If factors beyond his control had been different, he'd have a Super Bowl ring.
Just like Randy Moss would have if not for a miraculous helmet catch or no PI call against Crabtree in the endzone when SF lost to BAL in 2013.
BTW, Plaxico Burress and Jeremy Shockey - both guys whom detractors said would never win anything - both have rings and both made the game winning TD reception in those games.
So spare me this stupid fucking argument that elite WR's or "distractions" never win anything. It's garbage.
Do you ignore the situps in the driveway and the fact that he RUINED Philly for about three years single-handedly? Yeah, GREAT argument!
And watch him don his gold jacket for another team.
T.O. will be donning one soon as well (0 rings).
Great argument...
BTW, he came back early from a broken leg, was a huge reason PHI was in a position to make a SB run to begin with and was fantastic in the Super Bowl. 9 catches for 122 yards at less than 100%.
If factors beyond his control had been different, he'd have a Super Bowl ring.
Just like Randy Moss would have if not for a miraculous helmet catch or no PI call against Crabtree in the endzone when SF lost to BAL in 2013.
BTW, Plaxico Burress and Jeremy Shockey - both guys whom detractors said would never win anything - both have rings and both made the game winning TD reception in those games.
So spare me this stupid fucking argument that elite WR's or "distractions" never win anything. It's garbage.
It's dumb using rings as an argument in player comparisons outside the QB position (even that his it's own issues, but I get it).
I do think its notable how teams have been able to build contending rosters without having that true elite, top 5-10 #1 WR. The Giants might not be the team to make that argument for, as they lack in virtually every other respect on offense.
And, to me, an unprecedented talent at the position.
But cap money is better distributed among other position & players than a highly paid super-diva receiver. So, yes, I would trade OBJ to the highest bidder...
And watch him don his gold jacket for another team.
T.O. will be donning one soon as well (0 rings).
Great argument...
BTW, he came back early from a broken leg, was a huge reason PHI was in a position to make a SB run to begin with and was fantastic in the Super Bowl. 9 catches for 122 yards at less than 100%.
If factors beyond his control had been different, he'd have a Super Bowl ring.
Just like Randy Moss would have if not for a miraculous helmet catch or no PI call against Crabtree in the endzone when SF lost to BAL in 2013.
BTW, Plaxico Burress and Jeremy Shockey - both guys whom detractors said would never win anything - both have rings and both made the game winning TD reception in those games.
So spare me this stupid fucking argument that elite WR's or "distractions" never win anything. It's garbage.
It's dumb using rings as an argument in player comparisons outside the QB position (even that his it's own issues, but I get it).
I do think its notable how teams have been able to build contending rosters without having that true elite, top 5-10 #1 WR. The Giants might not be the team to make that argument for, as they lack in virtually every other respect on offense.
Eh, even the Eagles signed Jeffery and are paying him good money. Not major, top tier money - but it's not like he's a JAG.
ATL paid Jones and would have beaten NE last year if not for mind bogging play calling down the stretch.
I don't really see what the point of getting rid of Beckham would be. Trade him for picks and then spend at least one of those on a WR who we hope will be nearly as good as he is? (And probably won't be)
All it does is create a new hole.
You don't have to have an elite WR to win a Super Bowl, but it's not like having one pulls you further away.
hoping to draft someone with the talent that Beckham has, and you want to trade him to get more picks to try and draft someone who has his talent (or find some other way to replace him).
Think about that.
You don't trade Odell Beckham until and unless you have to. He's a generational talent.
Yeah, but...he pretended he was a dog and peed on the field, costing us 15 yards on the ensuing kickoff. Back in the day when they were real men and played without helmets, that never happened. When a guy scored a touchdown, he drank a scotch and shot a kraut. We need more guys like that.
So spare me this stupid fucking argument that elite WR's or "distractions" never win anything. It's garbage.
I fully subscribe to this theory you call garbage. Sure, you can win with elite/diva receivers. But with the rules being so in favor of receivers versus DBs, it's just easier to find more players who can do that job for cheaper cap dollars; and then use more cap dollars at more critical positions (QB, corner, DE, safety).
It's dumb using rings as an argument in player comparisons outside the QB position (even that his it's own issues, but I get it).
I do think its notable how teams have been able to build contending rosters without having that true elite, top 5-10 #1 WR. The Giants might not be the team to make that argument for, as they lack in virtually every other respect on offense.
Eh, even the Eagles signed Jeffery and are paying him good money. Not major, top tier money - but it's not like he's a JAG.
ATL paid Jones and would have beaten NE last year if not for mind bogging play calling down the stretch.
I don't really see what the point of getting rid of Beckham would be. Trade him for picks and then spend at least one of those on a WR who we hope will be nearly as good as he is? (And probably won't be)
All it does is create a new hole.
You don't have to have an elite WR to win a Super Bowl, but it's not like having one pulls you further away.
Jeffrey had less than 800 yards, a catch % under 50% and received a 1 year deal because he wanted #1 money and no team saw him as a true #1.
I would agree with your point about how draft picks are just in a sense lottery tickets to land a player like Odell if Odell was still going to be on his rookie deal. It isn't so much a draft picks vs Odell as much as it is draft picks and $15M+ extra in space vs Odell. I can't say I'd prefer to trade Odell right now, but if a Godfather offer came for him I don't think it's "hang up the phone no matter" anymore.
But I agree with your larger point at hand, I was playing Devil's advocate about how it's possible to build a good offense without a top WR.
There is more to being a great football player than physical skill. He also did not come up big at crucial times with bad drops. I have rooted for many great Giant teams without him on it. Would not bother me the least if he is gone and we could concentrate on building a talented team that also has the right mental make up. In football as in every team sport, but more so in football, chemistry matters. He hurts the chemistry.
When does it get to the point where "Enough is Enough" as Donna Summer and Barbra Streisand once sang? When should the Giants make a move and trade him?
When his first contract is up and they can't franchise him year to year. Giants should 100% not sign this guy to an extension yet. He is coming of injuries and still has these idiot immature moments. They have essentially 3 years to see how it plays out. If he holds out or doesn't play that's only going to cost him.
If they decide to deal w him now, this new regime is worse than the old one.
but I wonder how many "Should we trade" threads would've come up if this were around during LT's era.
OBJ is a special WR. He's an immature prick who has not figured out how to handle success.
Work with him. Put someone on him. Do all you can to make it work.
Reason is you will never get a deal offered that is equivalent to his worth. Now if someone comes along and gives you a Herschel Walker/Ricky Williams type of deal I might think about it.
There is more to being a great football player than physical skill. He also did not come up big at crucial times with bad drops. I have rooted for many great Giant teams without him on it. Would not bother me the least if he is gone and we could concentrate on building a talented team that also has the right mental make up. In football as in every team sport, but more so in football, chemistry matters. He hurts the chemistry.
but I wonder how many "Should we trade" threads would've come up if this were around during LT's era.
Interesting thought. LT was a better, bigger force than OBJ. At the time, he was a game changer. Impacted the game for more than OBJ has. There were really no amount of draft picks that would have been sufficient. You would have had to throw in another great player - like a Ronnie Lott-type.
It might be better to trade him now, since it is unlikely that he will get his desired contract. In all likelihood he will pout and be" injured" until he gets his deal. NFL is probably looking into video, Suspension ?
Maybe shuffle him off to Buffalo in trade for one of their 1st round picks.
Why would Buffalo give up a 1st Rounder for an injured cry baby that wants a new contract?
Because they don't have any wide receivers. A year or so in Buffalo would bring him down to Earth
I don't care about the off the field crap, but I do not want him as our locker room leader for years to come, he's a flake and got too much Shockey in him.
Should have more value than any draft pick right inside or outside the top ten in this draft. It’s not just about his talent it’s really about are they committed and willing to pay him somewhere above 18 mil per year or more. Every Giants fan loves the abilities the guy brings to the game but did they notice the fiasco the Phins just went thru with Landry.
He is a unbelievable talent however there are concerns we even from what is seen on the field don’t know shit about them all. The foot injury situation puts a little dust on his value otherwise you would start at two first round picks and more. Even now that still might be the starting point no UFA has more value than him and it’s not even close. He is the heartbeat of the Giants and would be so for any team he plays for he’s just that special. In
fact I would trade almost every player presently on this roster to keep him but it’s a money question in the end. This is the front office game being played they said Eli still has game but have yet to say OBJ will be a Giant for sure going forward.
The guy who I would for sure have on the trade block is Collins everything points to him asking for outrageous money very soon. He for all the hype he gets here is just not a worthy investment of large sums of money before FA hits. He is a good safety but he is not a special safety way to many holes in his game to warrant a hugh contract.
you started with some basic stupidity and then just kept adding layers on it like a richly made soup.
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The guy who I would for sure have on the trade block is Collins everything points to him asking for outrageous money very soon. He for all the hype he gets here is just not a worthy investment of large sums of money before FA hits. He is a good safety but he is not a special safety way to many holes in his game to warrant a hugh contract.
First off you talked about the fiasco the Dolphins went through with Landry, then segued into some ramblings about Beckham's foot?? Then sashayed into that little gem about Collins.
I really don't know how Dorgan hasn't had a heart attack at the way you are his bizarro world alternate.....
The giants did very well without the divas barber and shockey on the team. But Beckham, to this point, hasn’t shown any on-field selfish ball demanding antics or questioned his qb’s leadership skills. And until that occurs he still has potential to be reigned in.
and it seems most of those who want to trade OBJ are doing so based solely on his behavior. To that logic, most of you would have traded Lawrence Taylor as well.
and it seems most of those who want to trade OBJ are doing so based solely on his behavior. To that logic, most of you would have traded Lawrence Taylor as well.
I'm not in favor of trading OBJ but this isn't *logic* as you call it - because in this era, Lawrence Taylor would have been suspended so many times by the NFL for being a dumbass that he'd be out of the league.
is at least one of the vocal posters who wants to trade Beckham railed against the Giants for "letting" Will Hill go and kept posting about his successes in Baltimore. We haven't heard anything about Will in a couple of years now....
is at least one of the vocal posters who wants to trade Beckham railed against the Giants for "letting" Will Hill go and kept posting about his successes in Baltimore.
I hope he stays injury and trouble-free, signs a long term deal, stays elite at his position, and helps us become a good football team.
I just hope that people who are scoffing at those who might wish to trade him or aren't fond of his antics at least entertain the possibility that those people might be proven right.
Think about that.
You don't trade Odell Beckham until and unless you have to. He's a generational talent.
T.O. will be donning one soon as well (0 rings).
Maybe shuffle him off to Buffalo in trade for one of their 1st round picks.
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And watch him don his gold jacket for another team.
T.O. will be donning one soon as well (0 rings).
Great argument...
BTW, he came back early from a broken leg, was a huge reason PHI was in a position to make a SB run to begin with and was fantastic in the Super Bowl. 9 catches for 122 yards at less than 100%.
If factors beyond his control had been different, he'd have a Super Bowl ring.
Just like Randy Moss would have if not for a miraculous helmet catch or no PI call against Crabtree in the endzone when SF lost to BAL in 2013.
BTW, Plaxico Burress and Jeremy Shockey - both guys whom detractors said would never win anything - both have rings and both made the game winning TD reception in those games.
So spare me this stupid fucking argument that elite WR's or "distractions" never win anything. It's garbage.
Pros:
I can't think of any
I guess being one of the most dynamic threats in the league doesn't qualify as a pro?
Look, I think that allowing himself to be recorded in bed with a woman doing coke is a completely braindead move, and I agree that the Giants will be looking at this closely to see if they can penalize Odell in some way, but the reason this story has gotten so much traction is because he is one of the most exciting players out there. You look foolish when you don't at least acknowledge that.
Maybe shuffle him off to Buffalo in trade for one of their 1st round picks.
Why would Buffalo give up a 1st Rounder for an injured cry baby that wants a new contract?
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In comment 13860235 Glover said:
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And watch him don his gold jacket for another team.
T.O. will be donning one soon as well (0 rings).
Great argument...
BTW, he came back early from a broken leg, was a huge reason PHI was in a position to make a SB run to begin with and was fantastic in the Super Bowl. 9 catches for 122 yards at less than 100%.
If factors beyond his control had been different, he'd have a Super Bowl ring.
Just like Randy Moss would have if not for a miraculous helmet catch or no PI call against Crabtree in the endzone when SF lost to BAL in 2013.
BTW, Plaxico Burress and Jeremy Shockey - both guys whom detractors said would never win anything - both have rings and both made the game winning TD reception in those games.
So spare me this stupid fucking argument that elite WR's or "distractions" never win anything. It's garbage.
Do you ignore the situps in the driveway and the fact that he RUINED Philly for about three years single-handedly? Yeah, GREAT argument!
Quote:
In comment 13860235 Glover said:
Quote:
And watch him don his gold jacket for another team.
T.O. will be donning one soon as well (0 rings).
Great argument...
BTW, he came back early from a broken leg, was a huge reason PHI was in a position to make a SB run to begin with and was fantastic in the Super Bowl. 9 catches for 122 yards at less than 100%.
If factors beyond his control had been different, he'd have a Super Bowl ring.
Just like Randy Moss would have if not for a miraculous helmet catch or no PI call against Crabtree in the endzone when SF lost to BAL in 2013.
BTW, Plaxico Burress and Jeremy Shockey - both guys whom detractors said would never win anything - both have rings and both made the game winning TD reception in those games.
So spare me this stupid fucking argument that elite WR's or "distractions" never win anything. It's garbage.
It's dumb using rings as an argument in player comparisons outside the QB position (even that his it's own issues, but I get it).
I do think its notable how teams have been able to build contending rosters without having that true elite, top 5-10 #1 WR. The Giants might not be the team to make that argument for, as they lack in virtually every other respect on offense.
But cap money is better distributed among other position & players than a highly paid super-diva receiver. So, yes, I would trade OBJ to the highest bidder...
C'mon you aren't fucking with us here? You're that much of an idiot?
lol, I pulled an arc!
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In comment 13860239 Frankie in Flushing said:
Quote:
In comment 13860235 Glover said:
Quote:
And watch him don his gold jacket for another team.
T.O. will be donning one soon as well (0 rings).
Great argument...
BTW, he came back early from a broken leg, was a huge reason PHI was in a position to make a SB run to begin with and was fantastic in the Super Bowl. 9 catches for 122 yards at less than 100%.
If factors beyond his control had been different, he'd have a Super Bowl ring.
Just like Randy Moss would have if not for a miraculous helmet catch or no PI call against Crabtree in the endzone when SF lost to BAL in 2013.
BTW, Plaxico Burress and Jeremy Shockey - both guys whom detractors said would never win anything - both have rings and both made the game winning TD reception in those games.
So spare me this stupid fucking argument that elite WR's or "distractions" never win anything. It's garbage.
It's dumb using rings as an argument in player comparisons outside the QB position (even that his it's own issues, but I get it).
I do think its notable how teams have been able to build contending rosters without having that true elite, top 5-10 #1 WR. The Giants might not be the team to make that argument for, as they lack in virtually every other respect on offense.
Eh, even the Eagles signed Jeffery and are paying him good money. Not major, top tier money - but it's not like he's a JAG.
ATL paid Jones and would have beaten NE last year if not for mind bogging play calling down the stretch.
I don't really see what the point of getting rid of Beckham would be. Trade him for picks and then spend at least one of those on a WR who we hope will be nearly as good as he is? (And probably won't be)
All it does is create a new hole.
You don't have to have an elite WR to win a Super Bowl, but it's not like having one pulls you further away.
C'mon you aren't fucking with us here? You're that much of an idiot?
Why the name calling? Just trying to see what is best for the Giants.
Quote:
so many people miss that Keith was being sarcastic??
lol, I pulled an arc!
Well done, lot of fish chomped on that line you threw out there!
Think about that.
You don't trade Odell Beckham until and unless you have to. He's a generational talent.
Yeah, but...he pretended he was a dog and peed on the field, costing us 15 yards on the ensuing kickoff. Back in the day when they were real men and played without helmets, that never happened. When a guy scored a touchdown, he drank a scotch and shot a kraut. We need more guys like that.
So spare me this stupid fucking argument that elite WR's or "distractions" never win anything. It's garbage.
I fully subscribe to this theory you call garbage. Sure, you can win with elite/diva receivers. But with the rules being so in favor of receivers versus DBs, it's just easier to find more players who can do that job for cheaper cap dollars; and then use more cap dollars at more critical positions (QB, corner, DE, safety).
Because sadly there are people here who truly view him like that
The grass isn't always greener
Quote:
It's dumb using rings as an argument in player comparisons outside the QB position (even that his it's own issues, but I get it).
I do think its notable how teams have been able to build contending rosters without having that true elite, top 5-10 #1 WR. The Giants might not be the team to make that argument for, as they lack in virtually every other respect on offense.
Eh, even the Eagles signed Jeffery and are paying him good money. Not major, top tier money - but it's not like he's a JAG.
ATL paid Jones and would have beaten NE last year if not for mind bogging play calling down the stretch.
I don't really see what the point of getting rid of Beckham would be. Trade him for picks and then spend at least one of those on a WR who we hope will be nearly as good as he is? (And probably won't be)
All it does is create a new hole.
You don't have to have an elite WR to win a Super Bowl, but it's not like having one pulls you further away.
Jeffrey had less than 800 yards, a catch % under 50% and received a 1 year deal because he wanted #1 money and no team saw him as a true #1.
I would agree with your point about how draft picks are just in a sense lottery tickets to land a player like Odell if Odell was still going to be on his rookie deal. It isn't so much a draft picks vs Odell as much as it is draft picks and $15M+ extra in space vs Odell. I can't say I'd prefer to trade Odell right now, but if a Godfather offer came for him I don't think it's "hang up the phone no matter" anymore.
But I agree with your larger point at hand, I was playing Devil's advocate about how it's possible to build a good offense without a top WR.
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TO ruined Philly?
C'mon you aren't fucking with us here? You're that much of an idiot?
Why the name calling? Just trying to see what is best for the Giants.
I'm going to call it - here begins the pivot to full-on troll mode for FiF.
But I get a kick out of the apologists for him.
he s a great player, but can't you just admit his sense of awareness is suspect and he often comes across as a self-absorbed jerk.
I could care less until it starts to hurt the team. But as of now his production cuts him a lot of slack.
When his first contract is up and they can't franchise him year to year. Giants should 100% not sign this guy to an extension yet. He is coming of injuries and still has these idiot immature moments. They have essentially 3 years to see how it plays out. If he holds out or doesn't play that's only going to cost him.
If they decide to deal w him now, this new regime is worse than the old one.
OBJ is a special WR. He's an immature prick who has not figured out how to handle success.
Work with him. Put someone on him. Do all you can to make it work.
Reason is you will never get a deal offered that is equivalent to his worth. Now if someone comes along and gives you a Herschel Walker/Ricky Williams type of deal I might think about it.
How does he hurt the chemistry?
Shitty taste in pizza.
Ship his ass out tomorrow for a deep dish from Chicago....
Plus a suddenly rejuvenated Jim McMahon.
Interesting thought. LT was a better, bigger force than OBJ. At the time, he was a game changer. Impacted the game for more than OBJ has. There were really no amount of draft picks that would have been sufficient. You would have had to throw in another great player - like a Ronnie Lott-type.
Quote:
It might be better to trade him now, since it is unlikely that he will get his desired contract. In all likelihood he will pout and be" injured" until he gets his deal. NFL is probably looking into video, Suspension ?
Maybe shuffle him off to Buffalo in trade for one of their 1st round picks.
Why would Buffalo give up a 1st Rounder for an injured cry baby that wants a new contract?
Because they don't have any wide receivers. A year or so in Buffalo would bring him down to Earth
We just have to find a team who are convinced that they are 1 good WR from going deep in the playoffs.
He is a unbelievable talent however there are concerns we even from what is seen on the field don’t know shit about them all. The foot injury situation puts a little dust on his value otherwise you would start at two first round picks and more. Even now that still might be the starting point no UFA has more value than him and it’s not even close. He is the heartbeat of the Giants and would be so for any team he plays for he’s just that special. In
fact I would trade almost every player presently on this roster to keep him but it’s a money question in the end. This is the front office game being played they said Eli still has game but have yet to say OBJ will be a Giant for sure going forward.
The guy who I would for sure have on the trade block is Collins everything points to him asking for outrageous money very soon. He for all the hype he gets here is just not a worthy investment of large sums of money before FA hits. He is a good safety but he is not a special safety way to many holes in his game to warrant a hugh contract.
First off you talked about the fiasco the Dolphins went through with Landry, then segued into some ramblings about Beckham's foot?? Then sashayed into that little gem about Collins.
I really don't know how Dorgan hasn't had a heart attack at the way you are his bizarro world alternate.....
Odell is one of the 3 best WRs in the NFL, so let's get rid of him. There isn't a trade any team could make that would be sufficient compensation.
I'm not in favor of trading OBJ but this isn't *logic* as you call it - because in this era, Lawrence Taylor would have been suspended so many times by the NFL for being a dumbass that he'd be out of the league.
Dog peeing - bad, bad behavior.
Suspended for drug use multiple times - A OK!
its like having J. Edgar Hoover on BBI...
I just hope that people who are scoffing at those who might wish to trade him or aren't fond of his antics at least entertain the possibility that those people might be proven right.