1st - Josh Allen at 62 mph threw the hardest ball ever recorded at the Combine. ok - almost expect.
But Baker Mayfield joined Mahomes last year who everyone went batshit over as the only other to hit 60 mph. Webb has a Howitzer and hit 59. just thought Mayfield continued to do the unexpected and shows he's got a real gun.
and now Rosen. Almost a magical thrower of the football. I was blown away by his accuracy in the drills hitting guys perfectly in stride. He is light years ahead of anybody else and that includes most of the NFL too. wow. could be looking at an All Time great.
think one of these 2 ends up the Giants QB.
he's got a "Webb" arm with Peyton Manning accuracy and a very high IQ. also noticed his mannerisms are classic Eli. calm, cool and confident playing QB. almost appearing bored.
Look, I'm just being objective here, I'm still not a total anti-Rosen guy, but he did not look great in the drills. He was pretty inconsistent. I don't think he massively hurt himself but it wasn't something you went away from feeling like he nailed it.
BTW, Rosen through the ball 57 mph to the left, and 59 mph to the right. Third best after Allen and Mayfield.
Lamar Jackson tied for worst arm of all quarterbacks at 49 mph to both the left and the right. Anything under 55 mph isn't what you want to see. 49 mph is really bad. However, it is the same as Deshaun Watson last year, so grain of salt.
Mason Rudolph is another notable who failed to reach the 55 mph benchmark, at 52 mph left and right.
I was actually a little surprised in Rosen's arm strength. NFL arm strength is clearly a positive when it comes to Rosen.
Ball velocity isn't a great predictor of NFL success, however. But it's nice to know that your guy has the goods in the arm strength department. Rosen, Mayfield, and definitely Josh Allen, they pass muster.
he's got a "Webb" arm with Peyton Manning accuracy and a very high IQ. also noticed his mannerisms are classic Eli. calm, cool and confident playing QB. almost appearing bored.
Rosen has as much to do with Peyton Manning as Mitch Petrus does to Steve Hutchinson.
Please stop with these over the moon comparisons.
what else does Rosen want to do? You seem to know him so well. Was curious?
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Please stop with these over the moon comparisons.
How about Dan Marino?
LOL, ok fair, Milton (in that neither one has a chance to win a Super Bowl). ;P
Low velocity is a red indicator and can eliminate a player
It is like a QB with small hands or a OT with short arms
Deshaun Watson had very poor velocity last year and is an outlier
Watson is the only QB since they started recording velocity that threw for less than 50 mph yet has demonstrated NFL success
It may be that running QBs do not have to throw with velocity
Bye the way Allen threw for a maximum of 69 mph at the Senior Bowl which was the fastest ever recorded
Neither player was over throwing and made the throws with relative ease
Please stop with these over the moon comparisons.
I agree with the Manning comparison actually - in terms of thinking the game and showing an ability to make every NFL throw - at this stage of their careers. And I don't know how much of Manning you saw at Tennessee, but Rosen throws a much better ball.
And let's not act like Manning was this non-nothing-wrong QB at Tennessee. He could never beat Florida, never got to the national championship game, and tended to come up short in big games like the Orange Bow in '98 against Nebraska with a chance to steal the national championship (he was not good).
So your basis for arguing that Davis Webb is talented is what? So, let's draft another iffy qb selection and see if one works out? Makes complete sense, you should email this to the Giants to make sure they know about it.
Combine doesn't have a throwing drill for distance. That was just an estimate where each guy dropped back, planted, threw the go pattern, and then where the receiver caught the ball...
Allen can easily throw the ball 80+ yards. Rosen probably 70. But really - when do you need that skill? Basically the Hail Mary drill, right?
The idea that 'these QBs aren't that good' is something that's largely being thrown around here. I don't think that's the national view whatsoever.
As will I. I’ve been on “Team Rosen” for awhile, along with his #1 fan Milton. Unfortunately, my gut is telling me he’s probably not on their radar though.
I think people manuafacture reasons not to like him strictly because they don't like his personality or his politics, I just don't get it. I'd jump for joy if they took Rosen.
Receivers rarely break stride the ball just seems to always be placed in a good spot
Darnold is a playmaker at the Qb spot ( sloppy play is a concern) and Allen I really haven't seen play that much not gonna pretend to have watched any Wyoming games. Mayfield has potential as well
This is a good class of Qb.. Great year to have a top pick
Will be happy with whomever we take but my preference is Rosen
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Damontre Moore is to Michael Strahan.
Please stop with these over the moon comparisons.
I agree with the Manning comparison actually - in terms of thinking the game and showing an ability to make every NFL throw - at this stage of their careers. And I don't know how much of Manning you saw at Tennessee, but Rosen throws a much better ball.
And let's not act like Manning was this non-nothing-wrong QB at Tennessee. He could never beat Florida, never got to the national championship game, and tended to come up short in big games like the Orange Bow in '98 against Nebraska with a chance to steal the national championship (he was not good).
I'm pretty sure you don't want to compare Rosen with Manning in their college careers. Manning went 39-6 as a starter in 4 years. Rosen lost 5 games just last season in 11 starts. If we want to dig into numbers, it doesn't get better for Rosen. If you want to compare arm talent, Peyton's arm is being severely underrated. He could spin it, and had postage-stamp accuracy, at all levels. His ability to hit receivers deep in stride consistently I believe to be unparalleled in NFL history. He could also actually throw on the move and do so accurately. Can Rosen throw the ball farther than Manning could? Yes, probably. But that's not to say Manning didn't have a very good arm, because he did, and he could unleash a pretty good fastball. I think some don't realize how good Peyton was in his Tennessee days and in his prime NFL years.
But what made Manning so great...his intangibles and leadership, his accuracy, his competitive fire, decision-making, and he excelled at his preparation. Does Rosen have some of these qualities? Perhaps. At the Peyton Manning level? Preparation maybe. But to compare him to one of the best QBs of all-time? He's not on that level as a prospect, sorry. He's just not.
I'm pretty sure you don't want to compare Rosen with Manning in their college careers. Manning went 39-6 as a starter in 4 years. Rosen lost 5 games just last season in 11 starts. If we want to dig into numbers, it doesn't get better for Rosen. If you want to compare arm talent, Peyton's arm is being severely underrated. He could spin it, and had postage-stamp accuracy, at all levels. His ability to hit receivers deep in stride consistently I believe to be unparalleled in NFL history. He could also actually throw on the move and do so accurately. Can Rosen throw the ball farther than Manning could? Yes, probably. But that's not to say Manning didn't have a very good arm, because he did, and he could unleash a pretty good fastball. I think some don't realize how good Peyton was in his Tennessee days and in his prime NFL years.
But what made Manning so great...his intangibles and leadership, his accuracy, his competitive fire, decision-making, and he excelled at his preparation. Does Rosen have some of these qualities? Perhaps. At the Peyton Manning level? Preparation maybe. But to compare him to one of the best QBs of all-time? He's not on that level as a prospect, sorry. He's just not.
Oh, dear Lord. I'm comparing them at this stage of their careers from a arm talent stand point and their football acumen. They both had the ability to stand big in the pocket and make every NFL throw. And they are both very football savvy.
I never threw in the NFL Peyton.
And spare me the college records. Manning had considerably more talent to work with on both sides of the ball. Want to go through it? Jamaal Lewis. Peerles Price. Marcus Nash. Chad Clifton. Leonard Little. Shaun Ellis. Terry Fair. Etc. Do I need to go any further? Those guys are pros. And I'm sure I am forgetting some.
UCLA's problem has a lot to do with coaching. Jim Mora isn't a head coach of any note. 46-32 in college and 31-33 in the pros.
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I'm pretty sure you don't want to compare Rosen with Manning in their college careers. Manning went 39-6 as a starter in 4 years. Rosen lost 5 games just last season in 11 starts. If we want to dig into numbers, it doesn't get better for Rosen. If you want to compare arm talent, Peyton's arm is being severely underrated. He could spin it, and had postage-stamp accuracy, at all levels. His ability to hit receivers deep in stride consistently I believe to be unparalleled in NFL history. He could also actually throw on the move and do so accurately. Can Rosen throw the ball farther than Manning could? Yes, probably. But that's not to say Manning didn't have a very good arm, because he did, and he could unleash a pretty good fastball. I think some don't realize how good Peyton was in his Tennessee days and in his prime NFL years.
But what made Manning so great...his intangibles and leadership, his accuracy, his competitive fire, decision-making, and he excelled at his preparation. Does Rosen have some of these qualities? Perhaps. At the Peyton Manning level? Preparation maybe. But to compare him to one of the best QBs of all-time? He's not on that level as a prospect, sorry. He's just not.
Oh, dear Lord. I'm comparing them at this stage of their careers from a arm talent stand point and their football acumen. They both had the ability to stand big in the pocket and make every NFL throw. And they are both very football savvy.
I never threw in the NFL Peyton.
And spare me the college records. Manning had considerably more talent to work with on both sides of the ball. Want to go through it? Jamaal Lewis. Peerles Price. Marcus Nash. Chad Clifton. Leonard Little. Shaun Ellis. Terry Fair. Etc. Do I need to go any further? Those guys are pros. And I'm sure I am forgetting some.
No player on the field has as much to do with wins and losses as the QB. And while wins as a starting pitcher (replying to Ten Ton Hammer as well with this post) has been an overrated metric in baseball history, it also isn't without merit. There is a reason why great QBs win a lot, it's because it has a lot to do with them. Often the players change around them but they still win. Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Big Ben. In the course of the game, they do what it takes to win, no matter what the other limitations or strengths are on the team. The W-L record for a QB has some relevancy. It isn't the only thing. It is just one metric, but it is relevant.
And I don't care if you set that aside, Rosen is no Peyton Manning as a prospect. Peyton played 45 career games. In 1994, after he was named a starter, he never missed another start in his collegiate career. His sophomore year of '95 Tennessee went 11-1. Don't talk to me about Florida, either. Spurrier's teams were absolute powerhouses back then, they had the best athletes and players in the country.
Rosen never beat Stanford or USC. Rosen lost 13 times in 30 starts. And I can't even give him credit for winning the Cal game, because he only played the first half before leaving due to concussion in a one score game. Devon Modster finished the game and did enough to give UCLA the victory.
After the '96 season, Peyton had already graduated with his Bachelor's degree and was projected as the #1 overall pick in the draft, and still came back for his senior season. Rosen "got held out" of his bowl game and left in his junior year (and that is fine), but his legacy is of losing just about every big game and missing games to injury.
In Peyton's senior season, he led his team back to finish an 11-1 season with the SEC championship before losing to #2 Nebraska in the Orange Bowl. He was a consensus 1st team All-American, won the Davey O'Brien Award, the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award, the Maxwell Award, and the SEC Player of the Year Award, and was runner-up in the Heisman to Charles Woodson, and many feel Peyton was robbed.
The following is a list of Josh Rosen's major college awards:
.
Peyton's worst college season is comparable to Rosen's best college season.
As prospects, Peyton is superior in every meaningful way except that, Rosen probably had a stronger arm. That's it.
UCLA's problem has a lot to do with coaching. Jim Mora isn't a head coach of any note. 46-32 in college and 31-33 in the pros.
Not for nothing but Mahomes and Webb haven't done anything in the NFL yet. And I'm not a big Davis Webb or Mahomes guy, either. Winning games matters.
Anhow, I am working on a little study comparing Darnold and Rosen in a very specific set of circumstances that I will share with you guys, perhaps it will be enlightening or perhaps not.
College records for a selection of pro bowl QBs who won a super bowl in the past 10 years.
7-4
7-6
10-3
7-5
8-5
9-4
7-5
7-5
13-3
6-7
5-7
9-4
See if you can guess the name that fits the career from this pool: Brees, Wilson, Eli, Roethlisberger
College records for a selection of pro bowl QBs who won a super bowl in the past 10 years.
7-4
7-6
10-3
7-5
8-5
9-4
7-5
7-5
13-3
6-7
5-7
9-4
See if you can guess the name that fits the career from this pool: Brees, Wilson, Eli, Roethlisberger
Ok this is straight up guessing without looking. I think the groups are ordered: Wilson, Eli, Roethlisberger, and Brees is in the last group.
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In comment 13860893 allstarjim said:
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I'm pretty sure you don't want to compare Rosen with Manning in their college careers. Manning went 39-6 as a starter in 4 years. Rosen lost 5 games just last season in 11 starts. If we want to dig into numbers, it doesn't get better for Rosen. If you want to compare arm talent, Peyton's arm is being severely underrated. He could spin it, and had postage-stamp accuracy, at all levels. His ability to hit receivers deep in stride consistently I believe to be unparalleled in NFL history. He could also actually throw on the move and do so accurately. Can Rosen throw the ball farther than Manning could? Yes, probably. But that's not to say Manning didn't have a very good arm, because he did, and he could unleash a pretty good fastball. I think some don't realize how good Peyton was in his Tennessee days and in his prime NFL years.
But what made Manning so great...his intangibles and leadership, his accuracy, his competitive fire, decision-making, and he excelled at his preparation. Does Rosen have some of these qualities? Perhaps. At the Peyton Manning level? Preparation maybe. But to compare him to one of the best QBs of all-time? He's not on that level as a prospect, sorry. He's just not.
Oh, dear Lord. I'm comparing them at this stage of their careers from a arm talent stand point and their football acumen. They both had the ability to stand big in the pocket and make every NFL throw. And they are both very football savvy.
I never threw in the NFL Peyton.
And spare me the college records. Manning had considerably more talent to work with on both sides of the ball. Want to go through it? Jamaal Lewis. Peerles Price. Marcus Nash. Chad Clifton. Leonard Little. Shaun Ellis. Terry Fair. Etc. Do I need to go any further? Those guys are pros. And I'm sure I am forgetting some.
No player on the field has as much to do with wins and losses as the QB. And while wins as a starting pitcher (replying to Ten Ton Hammer as well with this post) has been an overrated metric in baseball history, it also isn't without merit. There is a reason why great QBs win a lot, it's because it has a lot to do with them. Often the players change around them but they still win. Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Big Ben. In the course of the game, they do what it takes to win, no matter what the other limitations or strengths are on the team. The W-L record for a QB has some relevancy. It isn't the only thing. It is just one metric, but it is relevant.
And I don't care if you set that aside, Rosen is no Peyton Manning as a prospect. Peyton played 45 career games. In 1994, after he was named a starter, he never missed another start in his collegiate career. His sophomore year of '95 Tennessee went 11-1. Don't talk to me about Florida, either. Spurrier's teams were absolute powerhouses back then, they had the best athletes and players in the country.
Rosen never beat Stanford or USC. Rosen lost 13 times in 30 starts. And I can't even give him credit for winning the Cal game, because he only played the first half before leaving due to concussion in a one score game. Devon Modster finished the game and did enough to give UCLA the victory.
After the '96 season, Peyton had already graduated with his Bachelor's degree and was projected as the #1 overall pick in the draft, and still came back for his senior season. Rosen "got held out" of his bowl game and left in his junior year (and that is fine), but his legacy is of losing just about every big game and missing games to injury.
In Peyton's senior season, he led his team back to finish an 11-1 season with the SEC championship before losing to #2 Nebraska in the Orange Bowl. He was a consensus 1st team All-American, won the Davey O'Brien Award, the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award, the Maxwell Award, and the SEC Player of the Year Award, and was runner-up in the Heisman to Charles Woodson, and many feel Peyton was robbed.
The following is a list of Josh Rosen's major college awards:
.
Peyton's worst college season is comparable to Rosen's best college season.
As prospects, Peyton is superior in every meaningful way except that, Rosen probably had a stronger arm. That's it.
This is silly. Why? The year after Peyton left Tee Martin and UT won the national championship. If you’d like, I can list the talent carryover from Peyton’s final year. So I guess if I extrapolate your logic, I can conclude Martin was more accomplished than Peyton since he elevated his team to greater heights.
And Danny Wuerffel won even more awards at Florida than Manning. I guess he’s a better QB, too. Since you are so fascinated by awards...
Again, I’m comparing Rosen and Manning stylistically - the way they throw, manage the game, think the game, etc. But I guess if you can’t see it, you can’t really see...
143.8 % passer rating when kept clean
“Well he had all day to throw especially behind Orlando Brown”
111.6 % passer rating under presurre
Who had the best passer rating when under pressure the last 3 years? Baker Mayfield.
He torched TCU’s defense twice, torched OSU in the horseshoe and played a very good game against Oklahoma.
His arm has now officially tested out as above average. He is the most accurate passer. No injury concerns. He’s going to be a stud. I look at what Case Keenum did this past year. I see at least Case Keenum but with an arm that can make any throw. Gettleman wants guys who hate to lose. In my opinion, its Mayfield and then everyone else in that category. He came out and said he wants to play in New York because “he thrives under pressure”.
With that said, its Mayfield and Rosen and then everyone else for me. Darnold - trouble reading the field at times, plus the long wind up and the turnovers.
Allen - maybe shortsighted but a 56 % completion rating in the Mountain West scares me.
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In comment 13860904 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13860893 allstarjim said:
Quote:
I'm pretty sure you don't want to compare Rosen with Manning in their college careers. Manning went 39-6 as a starter in 4 years. Rosen lost 5 games just last season in 11 starts. If we want to dig into numbers, it doesn't get better for Rosen. If you want to compare arm talent, Peyton's arm is being severely underrated. He could spin it, and had postage-stamp accuracy, at all levels. His ability to hit receivers deep in stride consistently I believe to be unparalleled in NFL history. He could also actually throw on the move and do so accurately. Can Rosen throw the ball farther than Manning could? Yes, probably. But that's not to say Manning didn't have a very good arm, because he did, and he could unleash a pretty good fastball. I think some don't realize how good Peyton was in his Tennessee days and in his prime NFL years.
But what made Manning so great...his intangibles and leadership, his accuracy, his competitive fire, decision-making, and he excelled at his preparation. Does Rosen have some of these qualities? Perhaps. At the Peyton Manning level? Preparation maybe. But to compare him to one of the best QBs of all-time? He's not on that level as a prospect, sorry. He's just not.
Oh, dear Lord. I'm comparing them at this stage of their careers from a arm talent stand point and their football acumen. They both had the ability to stand big in the pocket and make every NFL throw. And they are both very football savvy.
I never threw in the NFL Peyton.
And spare me the college records. Manning had considerably more talent to work with on both sides of the ball. Want to go through it? Jamaal Lewis. Peerles Price. Marcus Nash. Chad Clifton. Leonard Little. Shaun Ellis. Terry Fair. Etc. Do I need to go any further? Those guys are pros. And I'm sure I am forgetting some.
No player on the field has as much to do with wins and losses as the QB. And while wins as a starting pitcher (replying to Ten Ton Hammer as well with this post) has been an overrated metric in baseball history, it also isn't without merit. There is a reason why great QBs win a lot, it's because it has a lot to do with them. Often the players change around them but they still win. Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Big Ben. In the course of the game, they do what it takes to win, no matter what the other limitations or strengths are on the team. The W-L record for a QB has some relevancy. It isn't the only thing. It is just one metric, but it is relevant.
And I don't care if you set that aside, Rosen is no Peyton Manning as a prospect. Peyton played 45 career games. In 1994, after he was named a starter, he never missed another start in his collegiate career. His sophomore year of '95 Tennessee went 11-1. Don't talk to me about Florida, either. Spurrier's teams were absolute powerhouses back then, they had the best athletes and players in the country.
Rosen never beat Stanford or USC. Rosen lost 13 times in 30 starts. And I can't even give him credit for winning the Cal game, because he only played the first half before leaving due to concussion in a one score game. Devon Modster finished the game and did enough to give UCLA the victory.
After the '96 season, Peyton had already graduated with his Bachelor's degree and was projected as the #1 overall pick in the draft, and still came back for his senior season. Rosen "got held out" of his bowl game and left in his junior year (and that is fine), but his legacy is of losing just about every big game and missing games to injury.
In Peyton's senior season, he led his team back to finish an 11-1 season with the SEC championship before losing to #2 Nebraska in the Orange Bowl. He was a consensus 1st team All-American, won the Davey O'Brien Award, the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award, the Maxwell Award, and the SEC Player of the Year Award, and was runner-up in the Heisman to Charles Woodson, and many feel Peyton was robbed.
The following is a list of Josh Rosen's major college awards:
.
Peyton's worst college season is comparable to Rosen's best college season.
As prospects, Peyton is superior in every meaningful way except that, Rosen probably had a stronger arm. That's it.
This is silly. Why? The year after Peyton left Tee Martin and UT won the national championship. If you’d like, I can list the talent carryover from Peyton’s final year. So I guess if I extrapolate your logic, I can conclude Martin was more accomplished than Peyton since he elevated his team to greater heights.
And Danny Wuerffel won even more awards at Florida than Manning. I guess he’s a better QB, too. Since you are so fascinated by awards...
Again, I’m comparing Rosen and Manning stylistically - the way they throw, manage the game, think the game, etc. But I guess if you can’t see it, you can’t really see...
You're cherry picking individual points when it is the totality of the points of my argument that makes your comparison of Rosen to Peyton Manning silly. Again, you are talking about one of the best QBs ever, and one of the best QB prospects to come out of college ever. Peyton had virtually no red flags or question marks. Rosen has several. They are not in the same class as prospects. Peyton's numbers are way better, durability, leadership, accomplishments, and yes, W-L record/legacy of winning...all better than Rosen.
football IQ.
Typo. 13-1.
football IQ.
Stylistically, in terms of how they play the game, of course I see that. But Peyton is on a different level even if you compare them as just college QBs. And how do you know that Rosen has a similar football IQ to Peyton? What evidence do you bring to make this claim. I think Rosen is a smart guy, intelligent. But that is different than football IQ. I think that's a very difficult thing to quantify and compare between players for fans. All I'm saying is that Rosen isn't near the prospect Peyton was. He's similar in play style, sure. But Peyton did everything better. That's the point.
143.8 % passer rating when kept clean
“Well he had all day to throw especially behind Orlando Brown”
111.6 % passer rating under presurre
Who had the best passer rating when under pressure the last 3 years? Baker Mayfield.
He torched TCU’s defense twice, torched OSU in the horseshoe and played a very good game against Oklahoma.
His arm has now officially tested out as above average. He is the most accurate passer. No injury concerns. He’s going to be a stud. I look at what Case Keenum did this past year. I see at least Case Keenum but with an arm that can make any throw. Gettleman wants guys who hate to lose. In my opinion, its Mayfield and then everyone else in that category. He came out and said he wants to play in New York because “he thrives under pressure”.
With that said, its Mayfield and Rosen and then everyone else for me. Darnold - trouble reading the field at times, plus the long wind up and the turnovers.
Allen - maybe shortsighted but a 56 % completion rating in the Mountain West scares me.
Stylistically, in terms of how they play the game, of course I see that. But Peyton is on a different level even if you compare them as just college QBs. And how do you know that Rosen has a similar football IQ to Peyton? What evidence do you bring to make this claim. I think Rosen is a smart guy, intelligent. But that is different than football IQ. I think that's a very difficult thing to quantify and compare between players for fans. All I'm saying is that Rosen isn't near the prospect Peyton was. He's similar in play style, sure. But Peyton did everything better. That's the point.
I think it's been fairly well chronicled - especially by Milton ;) - that he processes information on the field at
a very high level and knows exactly where to go with the ball. He will get greedy at times because he trusts his arm so much.
For example, it's been expressed by Kirk Herbstreit, Trent Dilfer and his coach Jim Mora, Jr. Dilfer runs a camp for high school QB stars - Elite 11 - and he and his staff were extremely impressed with Rosen's mind. It should be available over on Youtube.
I really think you are looking back at Manning the prospect through a lens that includes his pro resume. He was knocked for some big game struggles at UT.
And this point that Florida was this much better team talent wise to UT is just flat out wrong. Got look at those All-SEC team during the Manning era. They are littered with top guys in both sides of the ball and right there is numbers with UF. And many of those UT players - again - were pretty damn pros. So you are just wrong when you make that claim.
Enjoyed kicking it around with you...
And yes, he has a good mind, and yes, Milton has waxed poetic about him in just about every way. I expect that. I get he's smart. But we are talking about onfield IQ and decision making. But look, I am working on something that will probably take the shine off. Probably will be done on Thursday. This is onfield analysis...the hype is exceeding what he has displayed on the field as a QB. Mayock has said the same thing about questioning some of his decision making and his deep accuracy has been questioned (I question this as well, I don't think it's very good, and there is plenty of tape to support this assertion).
And yes, he has a good mind, and yes, Milton has waxed poetic about him in just about every way. I expect that. I get he's smart. But we are talking about onfield IQ and decision making. But look, I am working on something that will probably take the shine off. Probably will be done on Thursday. This is onfield analysis...the hype is exceeding what he has displayed on the field as a QB. Mayock has said the same thing about questioning some of his decision making and his deep accuracy has been questioned (I question this as well, I don't think it's very good, and there is plenty of tape to support this assertion).
I'm always a bit leery of decision making analysis because we really don't know the play, the progressions, and if the receivers ran the right routes. College teams don't practice nearly as much as the pros so there is a higher # of missed assignments...
Travis Henry, RB
Jamal Lewis, RB
Chad Clifton, OL
Shaun Ellis, DL
Leonard Little, DL/LB
Terry Fair, ST/KOR
Al Wilson, LB
You really need to think before you write on this stuff...
Do you want me to list all the NFL starters that Manning played with? Because that’s a large number. Players drafted? Because that’s an even larger number.
Again, these are JUST pro bowl players.
Do you want me to list the Gator Pro Bowl players from that era next? Just give me the nod...
Jevon Kearse
Kevin Carter
Fred Taylor
How many UT got versus UF during the Manning era?
It’s really close, so grant me +/- 3 margin of error...
31 UT players were drafted that played with Manning
30 UF players were drafted that played during the Manning era
So it’s basically a draw.
I’m not sure how old you are, but some perspective. Philip Fuller was a GREAT recruiter. UT had the #1 ranked classes by Tom Lemming in 1994 and 1997. Obviously Spurrier was good too, consistently in the top 10. But Spurrier was a far better Xs and Os guy then Fulmer. His system was ahead of its time. And more often than not, his offensive players in particular didn’t perform as well in the pros. It’s a pretty interesting list of QBs, WRs, and RBs who were great at UF but ordinary in the NFL. Our own Ike Hilliard, for example, was really the only WR who was consistently solid...
Quote:
Drafted players came out of UF during the Manning years vs how many Peyton played with?
It’s really close, so grant me +/- 3 margin of error...
31 UT players were drafted that played with Manning
30 UF players were drafted that played during the Manning era
So it’s basically a draw.
I’m not sure how old you are, but some perspective. Philip Fuller was a GREAT recruiter. UT had the #1 ranked classes by Tom Lemming in 1994 and 1997. Obviously Spurrier was good too, consistently in the top 10. But Spurrier was a far better Xs and Os guy then Fulmer. His system was ahead of its time. And more often than not, his offensive players in particular didn’t perform as well in the pros. It’s a pretty interesting list of QBs, WRs, and RBs who were great at UF but ordinary in the NFL. Our own Ike Hilliard, for example, was really the only WR who was consistently solid...
I'm 41, was big into college football at the time (moreso then than even now), and remember thinking that UT never really had a chance against UF. UT had a great QB, but UF had a much more complete team. Also live/lived in Florida, so followed UF and FSU pretty closely, and that might also cause me to be biased. I am not a Gator fan, however, I'm a Seminoles guy. But seen a lot of them both over the decades.
I don't want to take the time to double check your work, but I think your numbers are off. I think UF had more draft picks. I do concede I could be wrong on this point, but my perception was always that UF was a much better team. I have good friends that are huge UT fans and at the time my friends and I would always give them grief.
-7 first round picks
-11 second round picks
-6 third round picks
-11 first round picks (Ike Hilliard!)
-3 second round picks
-6 third round picks
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
I still don't think that is relevant at all to the discussion of Peyton as a prospect. The fact is that UF still had one of the best programs in the country at the time, and not defeating them for 4 years wasn't a huge red flag on Peyton as a prospect. He was still regarded as a top QB prospect over multiple drafts and his status as a prospect has only been rivaled by Andrew Luck since.
It really doesn't change the conversation re: Rosen as a prospect compared to Manning, still a silly comparison. Rosen hasn't defeated several teams during his more abridged collegiate career but nobody is flagging him for it, except to say that he wasn't won enough generally (a statement I think IS a red flag with him). For example, Rosen didn't beat USC or Stanford in his career, going 0-5 against them. But I don't see that brought up as a ding on him as a prospect. Peyton went 39-6 as a starter, an .846 winning percentage, which is good. Rosen with a .566 winning percentage. Again, not the most important or only criteria of evaluation but it's a part of it. Peyton never missed a game at Tennessee. Peyton had better career completion percentage numbers. There were no questions as to Peyton's leadership. Every one of these are differentiation points with Manning and Rosen and there are others. So the totality of the argument of Rosen being similar to Manning really seems to be that they are both similar in stature, have about the same ability as a runner, and both very proficient in there throwing mechanics. I think you can't say that they are close to being equals as prospects because the evaluation doesn't stop there. Rosen isn't nearly as accurate as Peyton was, for example, particularly when it comes to deep accuracy.
And again, Rosen is kind of a one-year wonder. You can't really rely on his 2016 numbers, which were decent, because he only played 6 games, and his 2015 numbers were good, not great.
Anyway, as I said I am working on a little pre-draft project that will dive deeper into the kind of competitor and intangibles that Rosen has, and will post soon. I think it will be of interest and I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible.