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Weak 15: The Eagles (eventual SB Champion) The Mirage....

Britt in VA : 3/12/2018 11:04 pm
in the Meadowlands. Presented without commentary.

Link - ( New Window )
If this is indeed the game that leads to DG passing on a QB  
The_Boss : 3/12/2018 11:16 pm : link
then DG isnít the GM we hope he is. Eli, while playing well on the whole that day, did throw a momentum shifting brutal INT. A clsssic ďwtf Eli?Ē throw that turned the game around.
Well, it wouldn't be a day at BBI...  
bw in dc : 3/12/2018 11:24 pm : link
without the El Presidente of the EMFC demonstrating his undying love for Eli.
I really wonder if Eli has naked pics of Brit in VA  
NYSports1 : 3/12/2018 11:39 pm : link
The infatuation that this dude has with anything Eli is scary. Why don't you upload the Mirage game tape of the following week in AZ
Considering  
crick n NC : 3/12/2018 11:40 pm : link
Eli was in a suitable environment to play qb
Eli played very well overall.  
mrvax : 3/12/2018 11:40 pm : link
With a 2nd rate Oline, Eli takes a lot of chances. Keep 'em clean and he'll get it done.
Sometimes  
crick n NC : 3/12/2018 11:42 pm : link
I dislike Giants fans more than any other fans.
Thrill says  
One Man Thrill Ride : 3/12/2018 11:57 pm : link
that Eli is still capable of playing 1 good game.

But does anyone have faith he can play 16 good games?

And if The Org passes on a QB at #2, then we are relying on him for another 32 starts. Without a long-term solution at the position.

You can like Eli or even love him like a son, but even his biggest fans have to admit that's not a good proposition.
I have no doubt Eli can deliver a run in the playoff with a decent OL  
George from PA : 3/13/2018 4:02 am : link
Brady, Brees, Big Ben can as well.....

The differences between the Eagles and Giants can be corrected.....there are no Dynasties, outside of NE, which is coming to the end
What  
St. Jimmy : 3/13/2018 5:33 am : link
a goddamn disappointment the rest of the NFC was. That Eagles couldn't cover street free agents with Eli that day. Yet two dome teams score 20 points in two games against it. Terrible year for Aarpn Rodgers to get hurt. Then Belichick takes a hatchet to his secondary minutes before the Superbowl.
RE: I really wonder if Eli has naked pics of Brit in VA  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 6:50 am : link
In comment 13860902 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
The infatuation that this dude has with anything Eli is scary. Why don't you upload the Mirage game tape of the following week in AZ


Many of us do. You're just not in our special club.
Once McAdoo  
rocco8112 : 3/13/2018 8:07 am : link
was canned, I actually thought Eli and the Offense looked better in the three home games. The road game in Arizona was a broken team going out west to play a good defense. The Giants were likely sleepwalking in that one.

The first game post McAdoo against Dallas the offense seemed more competent and there were three key drops late that were critical. The passing game looked good against the Eagles and produced in week seventeen throwing to scrubs and there was a dropped TD as well.

I think the offense will improve simply because McAdoo is gone.
the following week in az  
sundayatone : 3/13/2018 8:09 am : link
is the real eli,time to move on.
Britt - I love your enthusiasm  
UberAlias : 3/13/2018 8:31 am : link
It is great to see Eli showing some signs of how we all will chose to remember him. Unfortunately there are also plenty of counter examples to this game over the past few years.

I will suggest Eli will play a big role in returning this team to greatness. However that role is more likely be about mentoring the next guy.
Without looking it up  
Old Dirty : 3/13/2018 8:36 am : link
can anyone name the receivers that Eli was throwing to that day? Can anyone name the players protecting Eli on the offensive line? Do you think they were the same groups from the previous week? I think what Eli accomplished that day was very inspiring and should be ONE OF the reasons that we let him continue to start this year. It's been painfully obvious that he needs protection and he can be very effective.

Let's not put the blame for that loss on Eli. He played his fucking heart out that game. Are there examples where Eli shit the bed in games that absolutely cost us a W? Of course, as with any other QB in the NFL.

The Giants fixed the entire defense in one offseason. Let's try and fix the OL. I'm confident that you'll see a much better Eli Manning if they do.
What if...  
jlukes : 3/13/2018 8:37 am : link


... the "Eli still has it" stuff is a smokescreen
... the Norwell desire was a smokescreen


and Gettleman really wants to clean up the cap and start fresh by grabbing his QB at #2, building with cheaper, young, OL


RE: What if...  
bigbluehoya : 3/13/2018 8:48 am : link
In comment 13861196 jlukes said:
Quote:


... the "Eli still has it" stuff is a smokescreen
... the Norwell desire was a smokescreen


and Gettleman really wants to clean up the cap and start fresh by grabbing his QB at #2, building with cheaper, young, OL



Itís a movie that Iíd be more than willing to watch, but it doesnít mesh with trading away draft picks for an above average LB already making what would appear to be every penny of his market value, or maybe more.
RE: RE: What if...  
jlukes : 3/13/2018 8:49 am : link
In comment 13861224 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 13861196 jlukes said:


Quote:




... the "Eli still has it" stuff is a smokescreen
... the Norwell desire was a smokescreen


and Gettleman really wants to clean up the cap and start fresh by grabbing his QB at #2, building with cheaper, young, OL





Itís a movie that Iíd be more than willing to watch, but it doesnít mesh with trading away draft picks for an above average LB already making what would appear to be every penny of his market value, or maybe more.


But would we get anywhere near as talented of an LB in the 4th round? I'd understand if we were talking about a 2nd or maybe even 3rd round pick. But the highest pick was only a 4th round pick
For All the Eli Haters  
djstat : 3/13/2018 8:53 am : link
We have not had a 1,000 yard rusher since 2012. We have had a joke of an offensive line since 2013. You knuckleheads understand very little about football.
RE: For All the Eli Haters  
Joey in VA : 3/13/2018 9:01 am : link
In comment 13861240 djstat said:
Quote:
We have not had a 1,000 yard rusher since 2012. We have had a joke of an offensive line since 2013. You knuckleheads understand very little about football.
I will wager I know more than you do. And I am 100% sure Eli's cooked. He has been for two seasons and it's going to get worse. The guy got away with dopey errors because of his defense and his running game. Without them he's exposed as a journeyman QB who had two excellent playoff runs...over 7 years ago.
Lukes  
bigbluehoya : 3/13/2018 9:02 am : link
Probably not. Iím not bashing the trade, Iím saying that it doesnít appear to indicate cleaning up the cap or starting fresh. It seems more in line with getting the band back together for one more tour with Eli as the head-man.

Maybe it makes sense, maybe it doesnít. To my eye, there donít seem to be enough resources available to patch the holes for the ďone more tryĒ path. But what do I know.

You canít improve your luck with lower round picks if you donít have your lower round picks.
Put up the Arizona Cardinal game on your next thread  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2018 9:08 am : link
and watch that mirage too...
Hmmm....who was the opposing DC in the AZ game?  
Emlen'sGremlins : 3/13/2018 9:09 am : link
He probably has some thoughts about what he saw that day.
RE: Hmmm....who was the opposing DC in the AZ game?  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2018 9:13 am : link
In comment 13861273 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
He probably has some thoughts about what he saw that day.


He is probably thinking about how good his Defense is going to look this summer at practice...
I love how irritated some of you get....  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 9:24 am : link
when anything that paints Eli in a positive light, and still capable of playing at a decent level, is posted.
RE: I love how irritated some of you get....  
bigbluehoya : 3/13/2018 9:28 am : link
In comment 13861311 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
when anything that paints Eli in a positive light, and still capable of playing at a decent level, is posted.


You do realize that the very same is true of you if you change just one or two words of what you typed, right?
Eli Manning's  
crick n NC : 3/13/2018 9:28 am : link
Career=Journeyman Qb -Joey

The comments get funnier and funnier.
I don't get irritated by it....  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 9:33 am : link
I just counter it.

The dude was playing with essentially a bunch of nobodies against the eventual SB champions late in the season, and he's slinging it around the field, hitting perfect passes to Roger Lewis....

Meanwhile we have a missed extra point, a blocked punt, a blocked FG, but it's Eli's backbreaking "momentum shifting" INT when up 20-7 in the 2nd quarter that did the Giants in... Not to mention the false start on the final drive when they were looking to score the walkoff TD from the five yard line.

What do I have to be irritated by? This is all playing out exactly how I said it would all season.
Looked a lot like the Green Bay playoff game last season.....  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 9:34 am : link
except Roger Lewis was actually catching the passes this time.
RE: I love how irritated some of you get....  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2018 9:36 am : link
In comment 13861311 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
when anything that paints Eli in a positive light, and still capable of playing at a decent level, is posted.



Youíve definitely been right so far  
bigbluehoya : 3/13/2018 9:37 am : link
About their approach. I certainly wonít take that away from you.

But so have many people. The disagreements mostly come into play when we get to discussing whether itís a shitty plan or not.
Okay great, he had an okay game (that he still lost)  
GiantNatty : 3/13/2018 9:55 am : link
let's keep trotting him out there like we have the last FIVE YEARS and hope that he somehow gets halfway decent again.

Good plan.

I love Eli too, but he's just not a good player anymore. I mean he's really bad. And he stunk at the end of 2016 too when he had an okay line and decent receivers, so I'm not buying the "he was playing alone" crap. He has been - at BEST - average for the past five years.

Your devotion is kinda cute, Britt, but also misguided if you think that what he's done in the distant past is reason to plan or hope for the future.
RE: For All the Eli Haters  
LAXin : 3/13/2018 9:58 am : link
In comment 13861240 djstat said:
Quote:
We have not had a 1,000 yard rusher since 2012. We have had a joke of an offensive line since 2013. You knuckleheads understand very little about football.


Yes yes. Eli only needs a good OL, a good running game, a set of good WRs, a good catching TE, a good in-line blocking TE, and a solid D, then heíll show us how good he really is.

Do I seem to understand football ó Eliís football ó correctly with the list above? I do understand other QBs would need a lot more than these to be successful, such as strong ownership support and being extremely well paid.
RE: RE: For All the Eli Haters  
djm : 3/13/2018 10:06 am : link
In comment 13861257 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13861240 djstat said:


Quote:


We have not had a 1,000 yard rusher since 2012. We have had a joke of an offensive line since 2013. You knuckleheads understand very little about football.

I will wager I know more than you do. And I am 100% sure Eli's cooked. He has been for two seasons and it's going to get worse. The guy got away with dopey errors because of his defense and his running game. Without them he's exposed as a journeyman QB who had two excellent playoff runs...over 7 years ago.


Oh COME ON!

Journeyman my asshole. He looked damn good in 14-15 and along with Beckham...oh fuck it I give up. Just a stupid fucking thing to say. And I don't care if you literally shit smart little footballs. You're nuts.
RE: Eli Manning's  
LAXin : 3/13/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 13861319 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Career=Journeyman Qb -Joey

The comments get funnier and funnier.


His entire comment was that Eli is a journeyman QB with two excellent playoff runs.

Those two runs constituted 8 weeks of his career, in which his defense never gave up more than 20 points, including the game in Dallas which, coming off a tie at half time, the Eli-led offense [b]gained a grand total of 53 yards in the entire second half, and won[/ b], including the two Super Bowls, in which his defense gave up a net of 17 points and 15 points, against the greatest scoring offense. Do you know the last team who D gave up less points, and still failed to win the Super Bowl? The 1970s, the dead ball era.

Now, letís look at the rest of Eliís career outside of those 8 weeks. In those 14 years, he won a grand total of 8 more games than he lost.

So tell us, exactly what was funny or inaccurate in Joeyís comment??
You're taking his two Superbowl runs away from him now?  
MetsAreBack : 3/13/2018 10:58 am : link
Holy fucking shit.

I understand the debate about his past two years - When you start to minimize his 2007 and 2011 accomplishments you really do sound like a moron.
RE: Okay great, he had an okay game (that he still lost)  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 11:05 am : link
In comment 13861383 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
let's keep trotting him out there like we have the last FIVE YEARS and hope that he somehow gets halfway decent again.

Good plan.

I love Eli too, but he's just not a good player anymore. I mean he's really bad. And he stunk at the end of 2016 too when he had an okay line and decent receivers, so I'm not buying the "he was playing alone" crap. He has been - at BEST - average for the past five years.

Your devotion is kinda cute, Britt, but also misguided if you think that what he's done in the distant past is reason to plan or hope for the future.


Eli's "decline" is overstated. My recollection of the end of 2016 was Eli Manning flinging the ball around Lambeau and his receivers dropping TD's.

Looked similar to how he looked in the Eagle game at the end of this year, too. Playing well enough to win with a poor supporting cast. Dare I say "elevating" the players around him? Which everybody seems to say he can't do anymore?

It's not just me.... Gilbride saw it, Greg Cosell saw it and stated it mid season, Gettleman saw it, and Shurmur all see the same thing.

Whose outlook is more in line with the reality of the situation right now? Those that think Eli can still contribute, or those that think he's cooked/done?
Doesn't seem to be the debate though.  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 11:12 am : link
Quote:
Those that think Eli can still contribute, or those that think he's cooked/done?

Seems more like it's a constant argument of those that still think Eli is our future (you) or those that think it's time to plan ahead while we have the extremely rare opportunity to do so.

And if you don't think he is our future then you have fooled us all.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 11:15 am : link
Quote:
You're taking his two Superbowl runs away from him now?
MetsAreBack : 10:58 am : link : reply
Holy fucking shit.

To be fair, Britt and others took away Kurt Warner's MVP to help Eli's case last week.
RE: Well, it wouldn't be a day at BBI...  
Les in TO : 3/13/2018 11:17 am : link
In comment 13860891 bw in dc said:
Quote:
without the El Presidente of the EMFC demonstrating his undying love for Eli.
LOL
RE: ==========  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 11:22 am : link
In comment 13861660 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:


Quote:


You're taking his two Superbowl runs away from him now?
MetsAreBack : 10:58 am : link : reply
Holy fucking shit.


To be fair, Britt and others took away Kurt Warner's MVP to help Eli's case last week.


Stating that Kurt Warner was only one of ten players in history to have an MVP during a Superbowl season, which is a rarity, doesn't qualify as taking it away from him, does it?
RE: You're taking his two Superbowl runs away from him now?  
LAXin : 3/13/2018 11:22 am : link
In comment 13861592 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
Holy fucking shit.

I understand the debate about his past two years - When you start to minimize his 2007 and 2011 accomplishments you really do sound like a moron.


Who minimized his 2007 and 2011 titles? Which facts in my 10:12am post about those two title runs werenít significant, and accurate?

The Giants would not have won the title in either year, if they had any of the other 31 teamsí defense during those 8 weeks. Can we agree to that assessment, or is it just another outrageous attempt to minimize Eliís accomplishment??
Let's see....  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 11:23 am : link
bw, Jimmy Googs, Giant Natty, Les in TO...

Feeling pretty good/confident about having the opposite stance, here.
i'll break this down for everyone  
djm : 3/13/2018 11:25 am : link
EVERY year Eli has been in the league after 2004--EVERY SINGLE ONE, save for 2013, which was bad, Eli has led an above average offense. EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. The only time the offense slipped to unacceptable levels was in 2016 and 2017. In 2016 the team won 11 games and in the biggest one, against GB, Eli played well enough to win.

So since 2004 we are talking about 3 bad seasons. 3. Out of 13. 2013 was awful. Eli has always needed a little help. Less than most QBs need but more than some of the select few need. Guys like Rodgers could sover up more warts than Eli. OK. Fine. So 2013 we agree the O was god awful. Every other year under Coughlin Eli led an above average or better offense. So what changed in 2016 and 2017? McAdoo. He was not a professional head coach. Eli needs a little help--and that included the coaching.

3 out of 13 seasons Eli has led an abvove average or better offense and in 2 of those years Mcadoo was the HC.

Eli is not done. He just needs a little help. Most QBs do. I guarantee it right now...if the offense is somewhat capable, and it will be under Shurmur, Eli will lead an above average attack. I fucking guarantee it. Why? Because i've seen it happen every single season Eli has been a live bodied starter in a live bodied offense.

And again, 2016 Eli still gave this team a chance to win offensively.
No,  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 11:29 am : link
calling the MVP a stats contest only and pointing out that Eli beat the MVP (though I don't recall how many passes he deflected or sacks Eli got in those games) as a way of saying the league MVP is pretty worthless compared to individual games does take it away from him, yeah.

Speaking of those MVPs, they would be Brady and Rodgers. Do we really want to get into a discussion comparing Eli with them?
think of Eli  
djm : 3/13/2018 11:35 am : link
as a slightly lesser Drew Brees if you can wrap your melons around that...Brees didn't win jack shit for a number of years in NO but still stat padded. Eli did the same fucking thing in 2014-2015. Big numbers little wins. Then 2016 he won 11 and still posts 26 TDs..then shit falls apart in 2017. Why? He's NOT much older. His physical skill are not in decline. If he can do it sometimes he can do it all the time. The offense was broken. Maybe Drew Brees in a dome with MCAdoo calling plays puts up slightly better numbers...same with Rodgers...and maybe even Big Ben does a little more...fine...have at it...but Eli STILL resembled a pro presence last year. He still didn't look like a complete mess...even if you think he did, he didn't. His numbers actually look merely pedestrian...despite the world ending around Eli, he posted 3500 yards--19 tds and 13 ints..IN THAT OFFENSE??? Trust me, if Eli or any QB was done in that mess? The numbers would be much worse.

You can't tell me that Eli won't dramatically improve if the OL is 10% better, the RBs are 10% better and the coaching goes from a 0 to a 7. Think about it...how much better did the 93 Giants look compared to 92? That's what will happen here. Just watch.
RE: No,  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 11:36 am : link
In comment 13861730 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
calling the MVP a stats contest only and pointing out that Eli beat the MVP (though I don't recall how many passes he deflected or sacks Eli got in those games) as a way of saying the league MVP is pretty worthless compared to individual games does take it away from him, yeah. And included Warner (which I bet nobody knew that little stat prior to me saying it, which was actually supporting Warner's case).

Speaking of those MVPs, they would be Brady and Rodgers. Do we really want to get into a discussion comparing Eli with them?


The MVP is a regular season stats contest. Is it not? My point then, as it is now, is that being the MVP does not translate to championships, which is why I noted that only ten players in history have had an MVP campaign and won a championship in the same year.

The point was in response to another poster saying that MVP is a very important box to have to check in order to get into the HOF, and I was countering that not having one didn't automatically disqualify you from consideration. And that's when I mentioned that Eli's team beat the MVP's team during both of those runs on the way to winning the Superbowl.

A little context.
RE: i'll break this down for everyone  
LAXin : 3/13/2018 11:37 am : link
In comment 13861707 djm said:
Quote:

So since 2004 we are talking about 3 bad seasons.


Or, since 2004 we are talking about 2 playoff-winning seasonís over 14 years
2 out of 14, with a regular season record of 8 games over .500.

Quote:

And again, 2016 Eli still gave this team a chance to win offensively.


... By directing hus offense to a league-leading ó the 2nd place team want even close ó 22 consecutive games without scoring more than 20 points? Okay.
This was supposed to be in my post,  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 11:38 am : link
don't know how it got included in your text:

Quote:
And included Warner (which I bet nobody knew that little stat prior to me saying it, which was actually supporting Warner's case).
RE: think of Eli  
BrettNYG10 : 3/13/2018 11:53 am : link
In comment 13861755 djm said:
Quote:
as a slightly lesser Drew Brees if you can wrap your melons around that...Brees didn't win jack shit for a number of years in NO but still stat padded. Eli did the same fucking thing in 2014-2015. Big numbers little wins. Then 2016 he won 11 and still posts 26 TDs..then shit falls apart in 2017. Why? He's NOT much older. His physical skill are not in decline. If he can do it sometimes he can do it all the time. The offense was broken. Maybe Drew Brees in a dome with MCAdoo calling plays puts up slightly better numbers...same with Rodgers...and maybe even Big Ben does a little more...fine...have at it...but Eli STILL resembled a pro presence last year. He still didn't look like a complete mess...even if you think he did, he didn't. His numbers actually look merely pedestrian...despite the world ending around Eli, he posted 3500 yards--19 tds and 13 ints..IN THAT OFFENSE??? Trust me, if Eli or any QB was done in that mess? The numbers would be much worse.

You can't tell me that Eli won't dramatically improve if the OL is 10% better, the RBs are 10% better and the coaching goes from a 0 to a 7. Think about it...how much better did the 93 Giants look compared to 92? That's what will happen here. Just watch.


Brees is much better than Eli.
LAX  
crick n NC : 3/13/2018 11:56 am : link
Journeymen QBs are something you look to upgrade, Eli Manning by no way defines journeyman, it's quite ridiculous. And spare me the stats, stats can be used both ways.
If you need it explained in detail to you I'd say you don't know much about the position of qb. Maybe someone else has the mental energy to meticulously explain to you why he isn't a journeyman qb.
Not black and white  
Thegratefulhead : 3/13/2018 11:58 am : link
This is just like politics, everyone wants to boil everything down to a controversy, making everything black and white when it isnít. We are not all Eli haters or apologists. Eli might be done and cooked. I know the Eagle game canít be used as proof one way or the other. I know you canít make a definitive case that he is not cooked based on subjective evidence. He needs a dominant OL and a running game. There have been rookies(IE Dak) with zero NFL experience that have thrived under that scenario, so that doesnít mean he still has it.

Thinking Eli is done does not mean you hate the guy. I love the guy, only jersey I own. I think the HoF doesnít deserve the name without Eli in there when it is his time. You would think that if he still really had the goods, he would have shown up in the zone and won some games they didnít deserve to win by elevating everyone around him. That Eagle game included 2 short passes that turned into long touchdowns. You win most games that happens, we did not because of a boneheaded INT.

Whether we draft a QB or not, if Eli does not look good this year, a rookie or Webb needs to play, sooner rather than later. The leash needs to be very short. I want to be wrong so badly. I want Eli to shut everyone up and win another SB. I justÖ I donít see it happening and resent anyone who thinks that makes me a hater. Eli has always won with his head and toughness, that gives you hope. Those things seem to have not gone away but if age has robbed him of a fraction of eyesight or slowed his cognitive ability even a tiny bit, Eli becomes nothing more than an aging journeyman QB. The margins are that small in the NFL.
week 15 was a mirage  
Les in TO : 3/13/2018 12:04 pm : link
as the next week demonstrated as Eli was completely outplayed by drew stanton in a shutout, consistent with the rest of his lackluster play last season where he finally was held accountable.
Link - ( New Window )
Yeah, well Dave Gettleman doesn't think week 15 was a mirage....  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 12:06 pm : link
and he's calling the shots.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/13/2018 12:09 pm : link
LOL, another one of these threads?

Good lord.
Part trolling  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 12:11 pm : link
Part truth.
Ahhhhhh  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 12:16 pm : link
I missed these for the last year.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/13/2018 12:17 pm : link
My personal take on Eli at this point is that he's still capable of winning games - but the problem is that as more time passes, the more Eli needs an ideal situation.

If you put the DAL OL in front of Eli, I don't think there's any doubt he'd get the job done.

My issue is this:

I think by the time NYG have a truly strong OL again, it's going to be too late for Eli.

I'm guessing it'll be about 2 years before we truly see the "hog mollies" we need and have one of the better lines in football - and by then, Eli is going to be nearly 40.

I don't think this team can win now even if they try committing to it. I think it's more of a 2-3 year proposition and unfortunately, the time frame isn't going to match up with Eli.

If you put Eli in JAX right now, I have no doubts they could contend. But the Giants roster is far too flawed and can't be completely fixed overnight - especially not up front.
The game plan is simple  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 12:21 pm : link
1. Let Eli get a few games to see if he can still win consistently. If we start off strong, continue to play him.
2. If we go 1-4 or 1-5, play Webb or whoever we take number 2.

Judging any player from last years abomination of a team is just shortsighted. Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady wasnít getting that team 5 wins last year.
RE: The game plan is simple  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13861945 dep026 said:
Quote:
1. Let Eli get a few games to see if he can still win consistently. If we start off strong, continue to play him.
2. If we go 1-4 or 1-5, play Webb or whoever we take number 2.

Judging any player from last years abomination of a team is just shortsighted. Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady wasnít getting that team 5 wins last year.


Pretty much standard operating procedure in the NFL.
RE: .  
BrettNYG10 : 3/13/2018 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13861929 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
My personal take on Eli at this point is that he's still capable of winning games - but the problem is that as more time passes, the more Eli needs an ideal situation.

If you put the DAL OL in front of Eli, I don't think there's any doubt he'd get the job done.

My issue is this:

I think by the time NYG have a truly strong OL again, it's going to be too late for Eli.

I'm guessing it'll be about 2 years before we truly see the "hog mollies" we need and have one of the better lines in football - and by then, Eli is going to be nearly 40.

I don't think this team can win now even if they try committing to it. I think it's more of a 2-3 year proposition and unfortunately, the time frame isn't going to match up with Eli.

If you put Eli in JAX right now, I have no doubts they could contend. But the Giants roster is far too flawed and can't be completely fixed overnight - especially not up front.


I agree. The other issue is I think there are a lot of guys who can thrive in a JAX situation. I don't know if Eli can elevate a team like he used to.

And I definitely agree that this OL will take too long to rebuild to maximize his value.
Whether or not Eli's done doesn't really matter  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 12:27 pm : link
Two things matter:

1. He will be done soon if he isn't already
2. This roster stinks and needs to be completely rebuilt

Gettleman should be prioritizing two resources over everything else: draft picks and cap space. Were I in his shoes I'd move everyone I could (including Eli) to acquire those two resources.
RE: RE: think of Eli  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13861837 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 13861755 djm said:


Quote:


as a slightly lesser Drew Brees if you can wrap your melons around that...Brees didn't win jack shit for a number of years in NO but still stat padded. Eli did the same fucking thing in 2014-2015. Big numbers little wins. Then 2016 he won 11 and still posts 26 TDs..then shit falls apart in 2017. Why? He's NOT much older. His physical skill are not in decline. If he can do it sometimes he can do it all the time. The offense was broken. Maybe Drew Brees in a dome with MCAdoo calling plays puts up slightly better numbers...same with Rodgers...and maybe even Big Ben does a little more...fine...have at it...but Eli STILL resembled a pro presence last year. He still didn't look like a complete mess...even if you think he did, he didn't. His numbers actually look merely pedestrian...despite the world ending around Eli, he posted 3500 yards--19 tds and 13 ints..IN THAT OFFENSE??? Trust me, if Eli or any QB was done in that mess? The numbers would be much worse.

You can't tell me that Eli won't dramatically improve if the OL is 10% better, the RBs are 10% better and the coaching goes from a 0 to a 7. Think about it...how much better did the 93 Giants look compared to 92? That's what will happen here. Just watch.



Brees is much better than Eli.


Yet he's only been to the playoffs 1 more time in his career despite playing 3 more years.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 12:33 pm : link
==========  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 12:34 pm : link
Quote:
dep026 : 12:32 pm : link : reply
Yet he's only been to the playoffs 1 more time in his career despite playing 3 more years.

Wait.




Nope. nvm
RE: ==========  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13861983 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:


Quote:


dep026 : 12:32 pm : link : reply
Yet he's only been to the playoffs 1 more time in his career despite playing 3 more years.


Wait.




Nope. nvm


People make excuses all the time for Brees not making the playoffs.
Usually the excuse for Brees is his defense,  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 12:50 pm : link
which has been at or near the bottom more often than not since he took over the Saints.

Brees is one of the three QBs in the league at the moment where I don't think there is any debate to be had when it comes to playing the position compared to Eli. I love the dude and will miss him, but when it comes down to just simply playing quarterback, Brees, Brady and Rodgers are far ahead of Eli.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 3/13/2018 12:58 pm : link
I think fans underestimate the difficulty of making the playoffs on a year-to-year basis, but part of the reason the Giants have missed is due to Eli's inconsistency - and of course, the Giants wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs those years with a lesser QB. 2012 comes to mind as a year where Eli's pedestrian play down the stretch hurt us.

2009 and 2010 strike me as years where the team let Eli down. But he got in during a mediocre 2016 due to the defense, and also got in with a 9-7 and 8-8 year.

I don't think the Giants have done Eli a disservice in terms of building a team around him on the whole. The past couple years have been disappointing, of course.
You don't think the failure to build an offensive line....  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 1:00 pm : link
over the course of 7 seasons is a disservice?
Transcript uncovered from Britt's therapist...  
bw in dc : 3/13/2018 1:02 pm : link
Dr. Accorsi: "Okay, why the emergency call to meet today?"
Britt: "Week 15 against the Eagles."
Dr. Accorsi: "You're still watching it?"
Britt: "Yes."
Dr. Accorsi: "How many times since last week?"
Britt: "At least 200 times..."
Dr. Accorsi: "The entire game or just highlights?"
Britt: "Both."
Dr. Accorsi: "Did you connect with the statistician I recommended to discuss sample sizes?"
Britt: "No. I still don't think I'm ready to have rational conversations."
Dr. Accorsi: "Did you at least stop the process of changing your first and middle name to Elisha Nelson?"
Britt: "No. It's basically completed."
Dr. Accorsi: "This is very disappointing. By the way, did I ever tell you the story about the time I saw Mickey Mantle hit a 600 foot home run at spring training?"
RE: Usually the excuse for Brees is his defense,  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13862040 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
which has been at or near the bottom more often than not since he took over the Saints.

Brees is one of the three QBs in the league at the moment where I don't think there is any debate to be had when it comes to playing the position compared to Eli. I love the dude and will miss him, but when it comes down to just simply playing quarterback, Brees, Brady and Rodgers are far ahead of Eli.


Filthy I donít disagree that he has played with some porous defenses. Same can be said with Eli though. Now I could agree that Eli has played with some good defenses but that was early in his career sans 2016.

Brees numbers are inflated from the dome effect. His an rating drops 12 points from dome to outdoors. His td:int drops. His YPA is 7.12 which isnít great.

Brees should not be listed with Rodgers or Brady. He is in the same class as Ben and Eli. If Brees played the majority of games outdoors. He is a borderline HOF.
RE: You don't think the failure to build an offensive line....  
BrettNYG10 : 3/13/2018 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13862080 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
over the course of 7 seasons is a disservice?


The OL wasn't a bottom-five unit every year during those seven years - and he won a Super Bowl during one of those years. The quality of OL play league-wide has deteriorated. It's not an Eli-only issue.

2013 was the absolute worst and I'll happily throw that out.
Drew Brees is a first ballot HOF without thinking twice  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 1:07 pm : link
.
7 seasons?  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 1:08 pm : link
Multiple first round picks. Multiple second round picks. Good sized contracts to free agents. If anything the players that were well paid or highly selected not putting forth the effort on the field or their fragile bones are the ones who did the real disservice.

It's true that the line has been a turd but they did invest.
Brees's outdoor numbers are better than Eli's dome numbers.  
BrettNYG10 : 3/13/2018 1:08 pm : link
Brees is easily better than Eli.
I didn't say they didn't invest....  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2018 1:08 pm : link
I said they failed to build one.
RE: Brees's outdoor numbers are better than Eli's dome numbers.  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 1:18 pm : link
In comment 13862112 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Brees is easily better than Eli.


Yet his teams could argue have had less success. If Brees was THAT much better than Eli- why havenít their seasons been so successful?

Brees numbers are enhanced by playing with two of the best offensive minds ever.
RE: i'll break this down for everyone  
rocco8112 : 3/13/2018 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13861707 djm said:
Quote:
EVERY year Eli has been in the league after 2004--EVERY SINGLE ONE, save for 2013, which was bad, Eli has led an above average offense. EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. The only time the offense slipped to unacceptable levels was in 2016 and 2017. In 2016 the team won 11 games and in the biggest one, against GB, Eli played well enough to win.

So since 2004 we are talking about 3 bad seasons. 3. Out of 13. 2013 was awful. Eli has always needed a little help. Less than most QBs need but more than some of the select few need. Guys like Rodgers could sover up more warts than Eli. OK. Fine. So 2013 we agree the O was god awful. Every other year under Coughlin Eli led an above average or better offense. So what changed in 2016 and 2017? McAdoo. He was not a professional head coach. Eli needs a little help--and that included the coaching.

3 out of 13 seasons Eli has led an abvove average or better offense and in 2 of those years Mcadoo was the HC.

Eli is not done. He just needs a little help. Most QBs do. I guarantee it right now...if the offense is somewhat capable, and it will be under Shurmur, Eli will lead an above average attack. I fucking guarantee it. Why? Because i've seen it happen every single season Eli has been a live bodied starter in a live bodied offense.

And again, 2016 Eli still gave this team a chance to win offensively.


Perfectly stated and I see it the same way. Eli so consistently led an above average offense we took it for granted.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 3/13/2018 1:24 pm : link
Brees put up over 5,000 yards and 40 TDs with Payton suspended in 2012.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 1:26 pm : link
Quote:
.....
BrettNYG10 : 1:24 pm : link : reply
Brees put up over 5,000 yards and 40 TDs with Payton suspended in 2012.

They were no doubt still texting though, so hard to trust those numbers.
RE: .....  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13862171 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Brees put up over 5,000 yards and 40 TDs with Payton suspended in 2012.


Well the offense didnít change and I am sure Payton stayed away for the whole season and had no contact with anyone?
....  
BrettNYG10 : 3/13/2018 1:35 pm : link
You keep changing your (absurd to start with) argument. It's remarkably stupid. You're just wrong on this.
RE: ....  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13862211 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
You keep changing your (absurd to start with) argument. It's remarkably stupid. You're just wrong on this.


Someone said Brees in the same light as Brady and Rodgers despite being in the playoffs 7 times in 17 years. Heís not cause his career is overrated. And enhanced by playing in a dome which was backed up with stats.

You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but itís impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers. The fact is Brees has been to the playoffs 1 more time in 3 more years of playing. I wouldnít call that special by any means. Brady missed the playoffs once in his career. Rodgers twice, one of it being this year cause he missed 9 games.
RE: Drew Brees is a first ballot HOF without thinking twice  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 1:45 pm : link
In comment 13862107 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


Only because of gaudy numbers. His teams regular season accomplishments are less than average.

And I agree he is a HOF. But he isnít even in the same class as Peyton Brady or Rodgers.
Actually I removed all team success  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 1:47 pm : link
and made sure to strictly make it about playing the position. I stand by those three men being on a different level above Eli. Season success involves way more than just the QB, which is why we are able to talk about the majority of Eli's teams being pitiful, mediocre, or disappointing without putting all the blame on Eli, right?
...  
BrettNYG10 : 3/13/2018 1:53 pm : link
Quote:
You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but itís impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.


Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.
RE: ...  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13862250 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:


Quote:


You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but itís impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.



Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.


If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.
RE: Actually I removed all team success  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13862236 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
and made sure to strictly make it about playing the position. I stand by those three men being on a different level above Eli. Season success involves way more than just the QB, which is why we are able to talk about the majority of Eli's teams being pitiful, mediocre, or disappointing without putting all the blame on Eli, right?


Fair enough.

So let me ask you this then. Was Eli a goodto great QB in 14&15?
As huge of  
crick n NC : 3/13/2018 2:02 pm : link
An Eli fan as I am, I've never been able to get on board that Eli is in the same class as Brees as a passer. Brees is a great passer, also consider him having the extra challenge of his height for the position
Yes Eli was good to great in 2014-2015.  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 2:08 pm : link
I do believe what made a bigger impact in 2014-2015 was our brand new star receiver playing out of this world.
RE: RE: ...  
BrettNYG10 : 3/13/2018 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13862273 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13862250 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:




Quote:


You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but itís impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.



Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.



If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.


Has Tom Coughlin held Eli back? And does play calling not matter since we are apparently ignoring 2012 as well?
RE: Yes Eli was good to great in 2014-2015.  
BrettNYG10 : 3/13/2018 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13862300 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
I do believe what made a bigger impact in 2014-2015 was our brand new star receiver playing out of this world.


Reuben Randle was here in 2012 and 2013, too.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13862303 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 13862273 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 13862250 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:




Quote:


You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but itís impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.



Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.



If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.



Has Tom Coughlin held Eli back? And does play calling not matter since we are apparently ignoring 2012 as well?


As far as giving team success, Coughlin of course didnt hold his team back. But Coughlin's philosophy is much different than Sean Paytons. Coughlin always was a run first guy and tried to establish it. And with a lead, he relied on it.

From 2007 to 2012 ( The giants good years!)... the giants ran the ball 275 times more. In contrast, the Saints threw the ball.....582 more times!

Those are insane numbers and different coaching styles. Stats can be misleading.
RE: Yes Eli was good to great in 2014-2015.  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13862300 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
I do believe what made a bigger impact in 2014-2015 was our brand new star receiver playing out of this world.


Yes OBJ played a huge success.... but are you saying guys like Ben, Brady, Warner, and Peyton didnt have some HOF types talents playing them?
RE: RE: Yes Eli was good to great in 2014-2015.  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13862337 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13862300 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


I do believe what made a bigger impact in 2014-2015 was our brand new star receiver playing out of this world.



Yes OBJ played a huge success.... but are you saying guys like Ben, Brady, Warner, and Peyton didnt have some HOF types talents playing them?

Nope, but I will say that it isn't the biggest knock in the world to say Eli needs a lot more around him, whether that is the Oline, running game or receiving group, to put up the same consistency as a Brady, Rodgers or Brees.
RE: RE: RE: Yes Eli was good to great in 2014-2015.  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 2:26 pm : link
In comment 13862366 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
In comment 13862337 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 13862300 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


I do believe what made a bigger impact in 2014-2015 was our brand new star receiver playing out of this world.



Yes OBJ played a huge success.... but are you saying guys like Ben, Brady, Warner, and Peyton didnt have some HOF types talents playing them?


Nope, but I will say that it isn't the biggest knock in the world to say Eli needs a lot more around him, whether that is the Oline, running game or receiving group, to put up the same consistency as a Brady, Rodgers or Brees.


I wouldnt say a lot. I think fans who dont view Eli as highly as others (not saying you or Brett of course, you know who I am talking about) dont realize how bad our OL and run game have been for years. Eli doesnt need a great OL and run game, I believe with a capable one - he can pplay just fine.

Now whether or not he gets that, thats the question that remains.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
leatherneck570 : 3/13/2018 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13862334 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13862303 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


In comment 13862273 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 13862250 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:




Quote:


You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but itís impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.



Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.



If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.



Has Tom Coughlin held Eli back? And does play calling not matter since we are apparently ignoring 2012 as well?



As far as giving team success, Coughlin of course didnt hold his team back. But Coughlin's philosophy is much different than Sean Paytons. Coughlin always was a run first guy and tried to establish it. And with a lead, he relied on it.

From 2007 to 2012 ( The giants good years!)... the giants ran the ball 275 times more. In contrast, the Saints threw the ball.....582 more times!

Those are insane numbers and different coaching styles. Stats can be misleading.


Stats don't tell you anything. You should read them and ask why.

Is it possible...

- The Giants had a better D and didn't have to play catch up/keep up as often?

- Brees was the best player on the field for the Saints and therefore the offense ran through him?

- Brees is better than Eli?

- If Brees was on the Giants, maybe Coughlin would have thrown more too?

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 2:36 pm : link
In comment 13862385 leatherneck570 said:
Quote:


Stats don't tell you anything. You should read them and ask why.

Is it possible...

- The Giants had a better D and didn't have to play catch up/keep up as often?

- Brees was the best player on the field for the Saints and therefore the offense ran through him?

- Brees is better than Eli?

- If Brees was on the Giants, maybe Coughlin would have thrown more too?


1. In 2007-2012, the Saints were 59-37. They had some very good teams. They threw often with the lead.
2. Brees was their best player on offense. But their lack of run game was by design. Pierre Thomas and Reggie Bush werent pro bowlers, but they were more than serviceable.
3. Brees is probably better than Eli, but the gap isnt as big as many may think
4. I doubt it. Coughlin is a run first game and always has been.
RE: If this is indeed the game that leads to DG passing on a QB  
Bill L : 3/13/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13860885 The_Boss said:
Quote:
then DG isnít the GM we hope he is. Eli, while playing well on the whole that day, did throw a momentum shifting brutal INT. A clsssic ďwtf Eli?Ē throw that turned the game around.
To be fair, there are just as many, more actually, with a reflexive and visceral antipathy toward him who are equally prone to displaying it at odd at times, invariably weaving despite into conversations, posts, and thread with incredible irrelevancy to the topic.
No question that age alone, dictates that Eli is nearing the end  
Bill L : 3/13/2018 2:45 pm : link
but, regardless of what we might wish and hope and desire, management seems intent on keeping him through his contract. We do need to plan for his future, and to be fair, even the old regime actually did that, drafting two different QB that were supposedly Eli in waiting. It will be wise to bring in additional QB's either now or within the next two years to move toward the future. There are a number of different avenues for this. Possibly it happens this year at either #2 or in a later round. Picking one of this crop at #2 may be the way to go but in not taking a #2-worthy player, I think you will come up short somewhere else. You could go with one of this crop of guys to get younger and, definitely you will get younger. But, long term, even knowing where and what Eli is at this point, it would still be smarter to be wiser in my opinion.
RE: Let's see....  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2018 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13861701 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
bw, Jimmy Googs, Giant Natty, Les in TO...

Feeling pretty good/confident about having the opposite stance, here.


I did what Britt? Are you stating I minimized Eli's titles or are you responding to something else?

Because if the former, that's completely false.

Please let em know, thanks.
Iíll say it again  
djm : 3/13/2018 7:35 pm : link
Give Eli a little help, maybe more than some of the elites need but not as much as an average qb needs and he will lead the team to close to 400 or more points and at least 8 wins.

And this back and forth brees stuff only validated my eli point even more. Brees has had the same offensive coaching staff and is as gifted a qb as any. And heís won less Super Bowls and only has one more playoff appearance. If brees is here in jersey instead of Eli in 2016-2017 are we a better team? I think not.

Good qbs can suck. Itís not always on the qb.


==========  
GiantFilthy : 3/13/2018 7:52 pm : link
Quote:
If brees is here in jersey instead of Eli in 2016-2017 are we a better team?

I say yes, definitely. Still wouldn't have been a good team overall last year though.
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