This is just like politics, everyone wants to boil everything down to a controversy, making everything black and white when it isn’t. We are not all Eli haters or apologists. Eli might be done and cooked. I know the Eagle game can’t be used as proof one way or the other. I know you can’t make a definitive case that he is not cooked based on subjective evidence. He needs a dominant OL and a running game. There have been rookies(IE Dak) with zero NFL experience that have thrived under that scenario, so that doesn’t mean he still has it.
Thinking Eli is done does not mean you hate the guy. I love the guy, only jersey I own. I think the HoF doesn’t deserve the name without Eli in there when it is his time. You would think that if he still really had the goods, he would have shown up in the zone and won some games they didn’t deserve to win by elevating everyone around him. That Eagle game included 2 short passes that turned into long touchdowns. You win most games that happens, we did not because of a boneheaded INT.
Whether we draft a QB or not, if Eli does not look good this year, a rookie or Webb needs to play, sooner rather than later. The leash needs to be very short. I want to be wrong so badly. I want Eli to shut everyone up and win another SB. I just… I don’t see it happening and resent anyone who thinks that makes me a hater. Eli has always won with his head and toughness, that gives you hope. Those things seem to have not gone away but if age has robbed him of a fraction of eyesight or slowed his cognitive ability even a tiny bit, Eli becomes nothing more than an aging journeyman QB. The margins are that small in the NFL.
as the next week demonstrated as Eli was completely outplayed by drew stanton in a shutout, consistent with the rest of his lackluster play last season where he finally was held accountable. Link - ( New Window )
Yeah, well Dave Gettleman doesn't think week 15 was a mirage.... Â
My personal take on Eli at this point is that he's still capable of winning games - but the problem is that as more time passes, the more Eli needs an ideal situation.
If you put the DAL OL in front of Eli, I don't think there's any doubt he'd get the job done.
My issue is this:
I think by the time NYG have a truly strong OL again, it's going to be too late for Eli.
I'm guessing it'll be about 2 years before we truly see the "hog mollies" we need and have one of the better lines in football - and by then, Eli is going to be nearly 40.
I don't think this team can win now even if they try committing to it. I think it's more of a 2-3 year proposition and unfortunately, the time frame isn't going to match up with Eli.
If you put Eli in JAX right now, I have no doubts they could contend. But the Giants roster is far too flawed and can't be completely fixed overnight - especially not up front.
1. Let Eli get a few games to see if he can still win consistently. If we start off strong, continue to play him.
2. If we go 1-4 or 1-5, play Webb or whoever we take number 2.
Judging any player from last years abomination of a team is just shortsighted. Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady wasn’t getting that team 5 wins last year.
1. Let Eli get a few games to see if he can still win consistently. If we start off strong, continue to play him.
2. If we go 1-4 or 1-5, play Webb or whoever we take number 2.
Judging any player from last years abomination of a team is just shortsighted. Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady wasn’t getting that team 5 wins last year.
Pretty much standard operating procedure in the NFL.
My personal take on Eli at this point is that he's still capable of winning games - but the problem is that as more time passes, the more Eli needs an ideal situation.
If you put the DAL OL in front of Eli, I don't think there's any doubt he'd get the job done.
My issue is this:
I think by the time NYG have a truly strong OL again, it's going to be too late for Eli.
I'm guessing it'll be about 2 years before we truly see the "hog mollies" we need and have one of the better lines in football - and by then, Eli is going to be nearly 40.
I don't think this team can win now even if they try committing to it. I think it's more of a 2-3 year proposition and unfortunately, the time frame isn't going to match up with Eli.
If you put Eli in JAX right now, I have no doubts they could contend. But the Giants roster is far too flawed and can't be completely fixed overnight - especially not up front.
I agree. The other issue is I think there are a lot of guys who can thrive in a JAX situation. I don't know if Eli can elevate a team like he used to.
And I definitely agree that this OL will take too long to rebuild to maximize his value.
1. He will be done soon if he isn't already
2. This roster stinks and needs to be completely rebuilt
Gettleman should be prioritizing two resources over everything else: draft picks and cap space. Were I in his shoes I'd move everyone I could (including Eli) to acquire those two resources.
as a slightly lesser Drew Brees if you can wrap your melons around that...Brees didn't win jack shit for a number of years in NO but still stat padded. Eli did the same fucking thing in 2014-2015. Big numbers little wins. Then 2016 he won 11 and still posts 26 TDs..then shit falls apart in 2017. Why? He's NOT much older. His physical skill are not in decline. If he can do it sometimes he can do it all the time. The offense was broken. Maybe Drew Brees in a dome with MCAdoo calling plays puts up slightly better numbers...same with Rodgers...and maybe even Big Ben does a little more...fine...have at it...but Eli STILL resembled a pro presence last year. He still didn't look like a complete mess...even if you think he did, he didn't. His numbers actually look merely pedestrian...despite the world ending around Eli, he posted 3500 yards--19 tds and 13 ints..IN THAT OFFENSE??? Trust me, if Eli or any QB was done in that mess? The numbers would be much worse.
You can't tell me that Eli won't dramatically improve if the OL is 10% better, the RBs are 10% better and the coaching goes from a 0 to a 7. Think about it...how much better did the 93 Giants look compared to 92? That's what will happen here. Just watch.
Brees is much better than Eli.
Yet he's only been to the playoffs 1 more time in his career despite playing 3 more years.
which has been at or near the bottom more often than not since he took over the Saints.
Brees is one of the three QBs in the league at the moment where I don't think there is any debate to be had when it comes to playing the position compared to Eli. I love the dude and will miss him, but when it comes down to just simply playing quarterback, Brees, Brady and Rodgers are far ahead of Eli.
I think fans underestimate the difficulty of making the playoffs on a year-to-year basis, but part of the reason the Giants have missed is due to Eli's inconsistency - and of course, the Giants wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs those years with a lesser QB. 2012 comes to mind as a year where Eli's pedestrian play down the stretch hurt us.
2009 and 2010 strike me as years where the team let Eli down. But he got in during a mediocre 2016 due to the defense, and also got in with a 9-7 and 8-8 year.
I don't think the Giants have done Eli a disservice in terms of building a team around him on the whole. The past couple years have been disappointing, of course.
You don't think the failure to build an offensive line.... Â
Dr. Accorsi: "Okay, why the emergency call to meet today?"
Britt: "Week 15 against the Eagles."
Dr. Accorsi: "You're still watching it?"
Britt: "Yes."
Dr. Accorsi: "How many times since last week?"
Britt: "At least 200 times..."
Dr. Accorsi: "The entire game or just highlights?"
Britt: "Both."
Dr. Accorsi: "Did you connect with the statistician I recommended to discuss sample sizes?"
Britt: "No. I still don't think I'm ready to have rational conversations."
Dr. Accorsi: "Did you at least stop the process of changing your first and middle name to Elisha Nelson?"
Britt: "No. It's basically completed."
Dr. Accorsi: "This is very disappointing. By the way, did I ever tell you the story about the time I saw Mickey Mantle hit a 600 foot home run at spring training?"
RE: Usually the excuse for Brees is his defense, Â
which has been at or near the bottom more often than not since he took over the Saints.
Brees is one of the three QBs in the league at the moment where I don't think there is any debate to be had when it comes to playing the position compared to Eli. I love the dude and will miss him, but when it comes down to just simply playing quarterback, Brees, Brady and Rodgers are far ahead of Eli.
Filthy I don’t disagree that he has played with some porous defenses. Same can be said with Eli though. Now I could agree that Eli has played with some good defenses but that was early in his career sans 2016.
Brees numbers are inflated from the dome effect. His an rating drops 12 points from dome to outdoors. His td:int drops. His YPA is 7.12 which isn’t great.
Brees should not be listed with Rodgers or Brady. He is in the same class as Ben and Eli. If Brees played the majority of games outdoors. He is a borderline HOF.
RE: You don't think the failure to build an offensive line.... Â
The OL wasn't a bottom-five unit every year during those seven years - and he won a Super Bowl during one of those years. The quality of OL play league-wide has deteriorated. It's not an Eli-only issue.
2013 was the absolute worst and I'll happily throw that out.
Drew Brees is a first ballot HOF without thinking twice Â
Multiple first round picks. Multiple second round picks. Good sized contracts to free agents. If anything the players that were well paid or highly selected not putting forth the effort on the field or their fragile bones are the ones who did the real disservice.
It's true that the line has been a turd but they did invest.
Brees's outdoor numbers are better than Eli's dome numbers. Â
EVERY year Eli has been in the league after 2004--EVERY SINGLE ONE, save for 2013, which was bad, Eli has led an above average offense. EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. The only time the offense slipped to unacceptable levels was in 2016 and 2017. In 2016 the team won 11 games and in the biggest one, against GB, Eli played well enough to win.
So since 2004 we are talking about 3 bad seasons. 3. Out of 13. 2013 was awful. Eli has always needed a little help. Less than most QBs need but more than some of the select few need. Guys like Rodgers could sover up more warts than Eli. OK. Fine. So 2013 we agree the O was god awful. Every other year under Coughlin Eli led an above average or better offense. So what changed in 2016 and 2017? McAdoo. He was not a professional head coach. Eli needs a little help--and that included the coaching.
3 out of 13 seasons Eli has led an abvove average or better offense and in 2 of those years Mcadoo was the HC.
Eli is not done. He just needs a little help. Most QBs do. I guarantee it right now...if the offense is somewhat capable, and it will be under Shurmur, Eli will lead an above average attack. I fucking guarantee it. Why? Because i've seen it happen every single season Eli has been a live bodied starter in a live bodied offense.
And again, 2016 Eli still gave this team a chance to win offensively.
Perfectly stated and I see it the same way. Eli so consistently led an above average offense we took it for granted.
You keep changing your (absurd to start with) argument. It's remarkably stupid. You're just wrong on this.
Someone said Brees in the same light as Brady and Rodgers despite being in the playoffs 7 times in 17 years. He’s not cause his career is overrated. And enhanced by playing in a dome which was backed up with stats.
You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but it’s impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers. The fact is Brees has been to the playoffs 1 more time in 3 more years of playing. I wouldn’t call that special by any means. Brady missed the playoffs once in his career. Rodgers twice, one of it being this year cause he missed 9 games.
RE: Drew Brees is a first ballot HOF without thinking twice Â
and made sure to strictly make it about playing the position. I stand by those three men being on a different level above Eli. Season success involves way more than just the QB, which is why we are able to talk about the majority of Eli's teams being pitiful, mediocre, or disappointing without putting all the blame on Eli, right?
You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but it’s impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.
Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.
You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but it’s impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.
Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.
If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.
and made sure to strictly make it about playing the position. I stand by those three men being on a different level above Eli. Season success involves way more than just the QB, which is why we are able to talk about the majority of Eli's teams being pitiful, mediocre, or disappointing without putting all the blame on Eli, right?
Fair enough.
So let me ask you this then. Was Eli a goodto great QB in 14&15?
An Eli fan as I am, I've never been able to get on board that Eli is in the same class as Brees as a passer. Brees is a great passer, also consider him having the extra challenge of his height for the position
You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but it’s impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.
Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.
If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.
Has Tom Coughlin held Eli back? And does play calling not matter since we are apparently ignoring 2012 as well?
You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but it’s impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.
Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.
If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.
Has Tom Coughlin held Eli back? And does play calling not matter since we are apparently ignoring 2012 as well?
As far as giving team success, Coughlin of course didnt hold his team back. But Coughlin's philosophy is much different than Sean Paytons. Coughlin always was a run first guy and tried to establish it. And with a lead, he relied on it.
From 2007 to 2012 ( The giants good years!)... the giants ran the ball 275 times more. In contrast, the Saints threw the ball.....582 more times!
Those are insane numbers and different coaching styles. Stats can be misleading.
I do believe what made a bigger impact in 2014-2015 was our brand new star receiver playing out of this world.
Yes OBJ played a huge success.... but are you saying guys like Ben, Brady, Warner, and Peyton didnt have some HOF types talents playing them?
Nope, but I will say that it isn't the biggest knock in the world to say Eli needs a lot more around him, whether that is the Oline, running game or receiving group, to put up the same consistency as a Brady, Rodgers or Brees.
RE: RE: RE: Yes Eli was good to great in 2014-2015. Â
I do believe what made a bigger impact in 2014-2015 was our brand new star receiver playing out of this world.
Yes OBJ played a huge success.... but are you saying guys like Ben, Brady, Warner, and Peyton didnt have some HOF types talents playing them?
Nope, but I will say that it isn't the biggest knock in the world to say Eli needs a lot more around him, whether that is the Oline, running game or receiving group, to put up the same consistency as a Brady, Rodgers or Brees.
I wouldnt say a lot. I think fans who dont view Eli as highly as others (not saying you or Brett of course, you know who I am talking about) dont realize how bad our OL and run game have been for years. Eli doesnt need a great OL and run game, I believe with a capable one - he can pplay just fine.
Now whether or not he gets that, thats the question that remains.
You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but it’s impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.
Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.
If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.
Has Tom Coughlin held Eli back? And does play calling not matter since we are apparently ignoring 2012 as well?
As far as giving team success, Coughlin of course didnt hold his team back. But Coughlin's philosophy is much different than Sean Paytons. Coughlin always was a run first guy and tried to establish it. And with a lead, he relied on it.
From 2007 to 2012 ( The giants good years!)... the giants ran the ball 275 times more. In contrast, the Saints threw the ball.....582 more times!
Those are insane numbers and different coaching styles. Stats can be misleading.
Stats don't tell you anything. You should read them and ask why.
Is it possible...
- The Giants had a better D and didn't have to play catch up/keep up as often?
- Brees was the best player on the field for the Saints and therefore the offense ran through him?
- Brees is better than Eli?
- If Brees was on the Giants, maybe Coughlin would have thrown more too?
Stats don't tell you anything. You should read them and ask why.
Is it possible...
- The Giants had a better D and didn't have to play catch up/keep up as often?
- Brees was the best player on the field for the Saints and therefore the offense ran through him?
- Brees is better than Eli?
- If Brees was on the Giants, maybe Coughlin would have thrown more too?
1. In 2007-2012, the Saints were 59-37. They had some very good teams. They threw often with the lead.
2. Brees was their best player on offense. But their lack of run game was by design. Pierre Thomas and Reggie Bush werent pro bowlers, but they were more than serviceable.
3. Brees is probably better than Eli, but the gap isnt as big as many may think
4. I doubt it. Coughlin is a run first game and always has been.
RE: If this is indeed the game that leads to DG passing on a QB Â
then DG isn’t the GM we hope he is. Eli, while playing well on the whole that day, did throw a momentum shifting brutal INT. A clsssic “wtf Eli?” throw that turned the game around.
To be fair, there are just as many, more actually, with a reflexive and visceral antipathy toward him who are equally prone to displaying it at odd at times, invariably weaving despite into conversations, posts, and thread with incredible irrelevancy to the topic.
No question that age alone, dictates that Eli is nearing the end Â
but, regardless of what we might wish and hope and desire, management seems intent on keeping him through his contract. We do need to plan for his future, and to be fair, even the old regime actually did that, drafting two different QB that were supposedly Eli in waiting. It will be wise to bring in additional QB's either now or within the next two years to move toward the future. There are a number of different avenues for this. Possibly it happens this year at either #2 or in a later round. Picking one of this crop at #2 may be the way to go but in not taking a #2-worthy player, I think you will come up short somewhere else. You could go with one of this crop of guys to get younger and, definitely you will get younger. But, long term, even knowing where and what Eli is at this point, it would still be smarter to be wiser in my opinion.
Thinking Eli is done does not mean you hate the guy. I love the guy, only jersey I own. I think the HoF doesn’t deserve the name without Eli in there when it is his time. You would think that if he still really had the goods, he would have shown up in the zone and won some games they didn’t deserve to win by elevating everyone around him. That Eagle game included 2 short passes that turned into long touchdowns. You win most games that happens, we did not because of a boneheaded INT.
Whether we draft a QB or not, if Eli does not look good this year, a rookie or Webb needs to play, sooner rather than later. The leash needs to be very short. I want to be wrong so badly. I want Eli to shut everyone up and win another SB. I just… I don’t see it happening and resent anyone who thinks that makes me a hater. Eli has always won with his head and toughness, that gives you hope. Those things seem to have not gone away but if age has robbed him of a fraction of eyesight or slowed his cognitive ability even a tiny bit, Eli becomes nothing more than an aging journeyman QB. The margins are that small in the NFL.
Link - ( New Window )
Good lord.
If you put the DAL OL in front of Eli, I don't think there's any doubt he'd get the job done.
My issue is this:
I think by the time NYG have a truly strong OL again, it's going to be too late for Eli.
I'm guessing it'll be about 2 years before we truly see the "hog mollies" we need and have one of the better lines in football - and by then, Eli is going to be nearly 40.
I don't think this team can win now even if they try committing to it. I think it's more of a 2-3 year proposition and unfortunately, the time frame isn't going to match up with Eli.
If you put Eli in JAX right now, I have no doubts they could contend. But the Giants roster is far too flawed and can't be completely fixed overnight - especially not up front.
2. If we go 1-4 or 1-5, play Webb or whoever we take number 2.
Judging any player from last years abomination of a team is just shortsighted. Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady wasn’t getting that team 5 wins last year.
2. If we go 1-4 or 1-5, play Webb or whoever we take number 2.
Judging any player from last years abomination of a team is just shortsighted. Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady wasn’t getting that team 5 wins last year.
Pretty much standard operating procedure in the NFL.
If you put the DAL OL in front of Eli, I don't think there's any doubt he'd get the job done.
My issue is this:
I think by the time NYG have a truly strong OL again, it's going to be too late for Eli.
I'm guessing it'll be about 2 years before we truly see the "hog mollies" we need and have one of the better lines in football - and by then, Eli is going to be nearly 40.
I don't think this team can win now even if they try committing to it. I think it's more of a 2-3 year proposition and unfortunately, the time frame isn't going to match up with Eli.
If you put Eli in JAX right now, I have no doubts they could contend. But the Giants roster is far too flawed and can't be completely fixed overnight - especially not up front.
I agree. The other issue is I think there are a lot of guys who can thrive in a JAX situation. I don't know if Eli can elevate a team like he used to.
And I definitely agree that this OL will take too long to rebuild to maximize his value.
1. He will be done soon if he isn't already
2. This roster stinks and needs to be completely rebuilt
Gettleman should be prioritizing two resources over everything else: draft picks and cap space. Were I in his shoes I'd move everyone I could (including Eli) to acquire those two resources.
Quote:
as a slightly lesser Drew Brees if you can wrap your melons around that...Brees didn't win jack shit for a number of years in NO but still stat padded. Eli did the same fucking thing in 2014-2015. Big numbers little wins. Then 2016 he won 11 and still posts 26 TDs..then shit falls apart in 2017. Why? He's NOT much older. His physical skill are not in decline. If he can do it sometimes he can do it all the time. The offense was broken. Maybe Drew Brees in a dome with MCAdoo calling plays puts up slightly better numbers...same with Rodgers...and maybe even Big Ben does a little more...fine...have at it...but Eli STILL resembled a pro presence last year. He still didn't look like a complete mess...even if you think he did, he didn't. His numbers actually look merely pedestrian...despite the world ending around Eli, he posted 3500 yards--19 tds and 13 ints..IN THAT OFFENSE??? Trust me, if Eli or any QB was done in that mess? The numbers would be much worse.
You can't tell me that Eli won't dramatically improve if the OL is 10% better, the RBs are 10% better and the coaching goes from a 0 to a 7. Think about it...how much better did the 93 Giants look compared to 92? That's what will happen here. Just watch.
Brees is much better than Eli.
Yet he's only been to the playoffs 1 more time in his career despite playing 3 more years.
Yet he's only been to the playoffs 1 more time in his career despite playing 3 more years.
Wait.
Nope. nvm
Quote:
dep026 : 12:32 pm : link : reply
Yet he's only been to the playoffs 1 more time in his career despite playing 3 more years.
Wait.
Nope. nvm
People make excuses all the time for Brees not making the playoffs.
Brees is one of the three QBs in the league at the moment where I don't think there is any debate to be had when it comes to playing the position compared to Eli. I love the dude and will miss him, but when it comes down to just simply playing quarterback, Brees, Brady and Rodgers are far ahead of Eli.
2009 and 2010 strike me as years where the team let Eli down. But he got in during a mediocre 2016 due to the defense, and also got in with a 9-7 and 8-8 year.
I don't think the Giants have done Eli a disservice in terms of building a team around him on the whole. The past couple years have been disappointing, of course.
Britt: "Week 15 against the Eagles."
Dr. Accorsi: "You're still watching it?"
Britt: "Yes."
Dr. Accorsi: "How many times since last week?"
Britt: "At least 200 times..."
Dr. Accorsi: "The entire game or just highlights?"
Britt: "Both."
Dr. Accorsi: "Did you connect with the statistician I recommended to discuss sample sizes?"
Britt: "No. I still don't think I'm ready to have rational conversations."
Dr. Accorsi: "Did you at least stop the process of changing your first and middle name to Elisha Nelson?"
Britt: "No. It's basically completed."
Dr. Accorsi: "This is very disappointing. By the way, did I ever tell you the story about the time I saw Mickey Mantle hit a 600 foot home run at spring training?"
Brees is one of the three QBs in the league at the moment where I don't think there is any debate to be had when it comes to playing the position compared to Eli. I love the dude and will miss him, but when it comes down to just simply playing quarterback, Brees, Brady and Rodgers are far ahead of Eli.
Filthy I don’t disagree that he has played with some porous defenses. Same can be said with Eli though. Now I could agree that Eli has played with some good defenses but that was early in his career sans 2016.
Brees numbers are inflated from the dome effect. His an rating drops 12 points from dome to outdoors. His td:int drops. His YPA is 7.12 which isn’t great.
Brees should not be listed with Rodgers or Brady. He is in the same class as Ben and Eli. If Brees played the majority of games outdoors. He is a borderline HOF.
The OL wasn't a bottom-five unit every year during those seven years - and he won a Super Bowl during one of those years. The quality of OL play league-wide has deteriorated. It's not an Eli-only issue.
2013 was the absolute worst and I'll happily throw that out.
It's true that the line has been a turd but they did invest.
Yet his teams could argue have had less success. If Brees was THAT much better than Eli- why haven’t their seasons been so successful?
Brees numbers are enhanced by playing with two of the best offensive minds ever.
So since 2004 we are talking about 3 bad seasons. 3. Out of 13. 2013 was awful. Eli has always needed a little help. Less than most QBs need but more than some of the select few need. Guys like Rodgers could sover up more warts than Eli. OK. Fine. So 2013 we agree the O was god awful. Every other year under Coughlin Eli led an above average or better offense. So what changed in 2016 and 2017? McAdoo. He was not a professional head coach. Eli needs a little help--and that included the coaching.
3 out of 13 seasons Eli has led an abvove average or better offense and in 2 of those years Mcadoo was the HC.
Eli is not done. He just needs a little help. Most QBs do. I guarantee it right now...if the offense is somewhat capable, and it will be under Shurmur, Eli will lead an above average attack. I fucking guarantee it. Why? Because i've seen it happen every single season Eli has been a live bodied starter in a live bodied offense.
And again, 2016 Eli still gave this team a chance to win offensively.
Perfectly stated and I see it the same way. Eli so consistently led an above average offense we took it for granted.
BrettNYG10 : 1:24 pm : link : reply
Brees put up over 5,000 yards and 40 TDs with Payton suspended in 2012.
They were no doubt still texting though, so hard to trust those numbers.
Well the offense didn’t change and I am sure Payton stayed away for the whole season and had no contact with anyone?
Someone said Brees in the same light as Brady and Rodgers despite being in the playoffs 7 times in 17 years. He’s not cause his career is overrated. And enhanced by playing in a dome which was backed up with stats.
You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but it’s impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers. The fact is Brees has been to the playoffs 1 more time in 3 more years of playing. I wouldn’t call that special by any means. Brady missed the playoffs once in his career. Rodgers twice, one of it being this year cause he missed 9 games.
Only because of gaudy numbers. His teams regular season accomplishments are less than average.
And I agree he is a HOF. But he isn’t even in the same class as Peyton Brady or Rodgers.
Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.
Quote:
You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but it’s impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.
Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.
If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.
Fair enough.
So let me ask you this then. Was Eli a goodto great QB in 14&15?
Quote:
Quote:
You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but it’s impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.
Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.
If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.
Has Tom Coughlin held Eli back? And does play calling not matter since we are apparently ignoring 2012 as well?
Reuben Randle was here in 2012 and 2013, too.
Quote:
In comment 13862250 BrettNYG10 said:
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Quote:
You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but it’s impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.
Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.
If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.
Has Tom Coughlin held Eli back? And does play calling not matter since we are apparently ignoring 2012 as well?
As far as giving team success, Coughlin of course didnt hold his team back. But Coughlin's philosophy is much different than Sean Paytons. Coughlin always was a run first guy and tried to establish it. And with a lead, he relied on it.
From 2007 to 2012 ( The giants good years!)... the giants ran the ball 275 times more. In contrast, the Saints threw the ball.....582 more times!
Those are insane numbers and different coaching styles. Stats can be misleading.
Yes OBJ played a huge success.... but are you saying guys like Ben, Brady, Warner, and Peyton didnt have some HOF types talents playing them?
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I do believe what made a bigger impact in 2014-2015 was our brand new star receiver playing out of this world.
Yes OBJ played a huge success.... but are you saying guys like Ben, Brady, Warner, and Peyton didnt have some HOF types talents playing them?
Nope, but I will say that it isn't the biggest knock in the world to say Eli needs a lot more around him, whether that is the Oline, running game or receiving group, to put up the same consistency as a Brady, Rodgers or Brees.
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In comment 13862300 GiantFilthy said:
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I do believe what made a bigger impact in 2014-2015 was our brand new star receiver playing out of this world.
Yes OBJ played a huge success.... but are you saying guys like Ben, Brady, Warner, and Peyton didnt have some HOF types talents playing them?
Nope, but I will say that it isn't the biggest knock in the world to say Eli needs a lot more around him, whether that is the Oline, running game or receiving group, to put up the same consistency as a Brady, Rodgers or Brees.
I wouldnt say a lot. I think fans who dont view Eli as highly as others (not saying you or Brett of course, you know who I am talking about) dont realize how bad our OL and run game have been for years. Eli doesnt need a great OL and run game, I believe with a capable one - he can pplay just fine.
Now whether or not he gets that, thats the question that remains.
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In comment 13862273 dep026 said:
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In comment 13862250 BrettNYG10 said:
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You can compare Eli and Brees all you want by stats but it’s impossible to do so since they have played in 2 total different situations for their entire careers.
Except Brees outperforms Eli in pretty much every situation - Eli home vs. Brees road (doesn't even adjust for the fact most QBs have better #'s at home), outdoors, etc.
If Eli played for Sean Payton, I would wager better numbers for Eli.
Has Tom Coughlin held Eli back? And does play calling not matter since we are apparently ignoring 2012 as well?
As far as giving team success, Coughlin of course didnt hold his team back. But Coughlin's philosophy is much different than Sean Paytons. Coughlin always was a run first guy and tried to establish it. And with a lead, he relied on it.
From 2007 to 2012 ( The giants good years!)... the giants ran the ball 275 times more. In contrast, the Saints threw the ball.....582 more times!
Those are insane numbers and different coaching styles. Stats can be misleading.
Stats don't tell you anything. You should read them and ask why.
Is it possible...
- The Giants had a better D and didn't have to play catch up/keep up as often?
- Brees was the best player on the field for the Saints and therefore the offense ran through him?
- Brees is better than Eli?
- If Brees was on the Giants, maybe Coughlin would have thrown more too?
Stats don't tell you anything. You should read them and ask why.
Is it possible...
- The Giants had a better D and didn't have to play catch up/keep up as often?
- Brees was the best player on the field for the Saints and therefore the offense ran through him?
- Brees is better than Eli?
- If Brees was on the Giants, maybe Coughlin would have thrown more too?
1. In 2007-2012, the Saints were 59-37. They had some very good teams. They threw often with the lead.
2. Brees was their best player on offense. But their lack of run game was by design. Pierre Thomas and Reggie Bush werent pro bowlers, but they were more than serviceable.
3. Brees is probably better than Eli, but the gap isnt as big as many may think
4. I doubt it. Coughlin is a run first game and always has been.
Feeling pretty good/confident about having the opposite stance, here.
I did what Britt? Are you stating I minimized Eli's titles or are you responding to something else?
Because if the former, that's completely false.
Please let em know, thanks.