Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter)
3/13/18, 6:31 AM
Former Panthers’ G Andrew Norwell intends to sign with the Jaguars on a 5-year deal for $66.5 million, including $30M fully guaranteed, source tells ESPN. He is going to become NFL’s highest paid guard - $13.3 million average.
Art Stapleton (@art_stapleton)
3/12/18, 8:40 PM
Hearing All-Pro guard Andrew Norwell is down to three finalists: #49ers, #Colts and #NYGiants, per league source.
Very true, but who.
Got to wonder how much Solder is going to get.
I'd make a push for solder now.
Tom Coughlin overpaying the hog Molies.
As a side note, the professional sports leagues have a real competitive balance issue on their hands with the incongruity in state taxes, IMO.
I expect they will sign 1 or 2 lesser OL.
I'd make a push for solder now.
Not that I get a vote, but if I’m Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.
The must get a QB crowd won’t like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and I’m not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.
Still had my hopes to get a pro bowl guard.....
Fine.
Lets get the line fixed some other way
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I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league
I'd make a push for solder now.
Not that I get a vote, but if I’m Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.
The must get a QB crowd won’t like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and I’m not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.
Some of you guys want an O-line so bad, you don't want any other players.
Tom Coughlin overpaying the hog Molies.
But when will he get a QB?
Did the same thing 1996 with Jags.
https://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/roster/1996
3/13/18, 7:06 AM
Highest Average Annual Value - Current OL Contracts:
G Andrew Norwell $13.3M
OT Russell Okung $13.25M
OT Trent Williams $13.2M
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13860997 BleedBlue said:
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I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league
I'd make a push for solder now.
Not that I get a vote, but if I’m Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.
The must get a QB crowd won’t like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and I’m not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.
Some of you guys want an O-line so bad, you don't want any other players.
Don’t put me in that camp. I’m not OL or bust. Also, the picks you get from a trade still allow you plenty of opportunity to get other players.
With a day to go before FA, the Giants have no starting guards, a dreadful LT, and no RT on the roster. A 37 year old QB, not a ton of cap space, an all pro SS to pay, a locker room cancer CB, and an all world but troubled WR to deal with. Gettleman is going to have to pull off a minor miracle.
Silver lining
Oh, oh yeah...I remember now. Its having high hopes that come crashing down in disappointment. There was a term for that though... what was it... right on the tip of my tongue...
OH! Thats right.
Being a Giants fan.
Good lord you are insufferable. So you are only willing to sign the top available talent if it comes at a lower than market value price?
There was no scenario in which Norwell was going to sign a cap friendly deal, he was clearly the top available FA o-lineman and these guys have been getting paid more and more each year.
Hopefully, find some in draft and hope they work out. This is also why, imo, having to go with eli at qb and the somewhat lack of protection up front isn't ideal, but understand why thoughi
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In comment 13861021 Emil said:
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In comment 13860997 BleedBlue said:
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I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league
I'd make a push for solder now.
Not that I get a vote, but if I’m Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.
The must get a QB crowd won’t like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and I’m not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.
Some of you guys want an O-line so bad, you don't want any other players.
Don’t put me in that camp. I’m not OL or bust. Also, the picks you get from a trade still allow you plenty of opportunity to get other players.
With a day to go before FA, the Giants have no starting guards, a dreadful LT, and no RT on the roster. A 37 year old QB, not a ton of cap space, an all pro SS to pay, a locker room cancer CB, and an all world but troubled WR to deal with. Gettleman is going to have to pull off a minor miracle.
As they say Rome wasn't built in day, DG is facing a multi-year rebuild, no way the OL and the rest of the weak areas on the team are going to be totally fixed this offseason and draft alone.
As a side note, the professional sports leagues have a real competitive balance issue on their hands with the incongruity in state taxes, IMO.
Yeah, I’m sure that’s the reason here. Norwell really preferring to play with Blake fucking Bortles. Lol!
P.R.E.C.I.S.E.L.Y.
But a team with shitty Blake Bortles is?
This is what I was afraid of with Gettleman as GM. Part of being a good GM is convincing good players to sign with you. Several teams have money. Can you sell yourself and the team
...taking the field in 2018.
When Osemele signed his $11.7m per deal, everyone said "that's too much". Gabe Jackson signs for $11m per, "that's too much" Zeitler signed his 12m per deal, "You don't pay a guard that much".
The Panthers signed Trai Turner to a, $11.2m deal three days after firing Dave Gettleman. Now it's Norwell.
Thinking has to change with the times.
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due to the qb situation
But a team with shitty Blake Bortles is?
This is what I was afraid of with Gettleman as GM. Part of being a good GM is convincing good players to sign with you. Several teams have money. Can you sell yourself and the team
A young Jags team came 4 points from making it to the Super Bowl. The Giants were 4 million miles away, and that distance multiples with every additional Eli year.
Just because he isn't plastered all over ESPN or NFL Network doesn't mean he isn't an excellent player.
Snacks wasn't either.
I don’t think he is in the plans.
Is Pugh looking better to some you now?
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Barely knew who this guy was a few months ago. He got mentioned as a player can help us, an upgrade and everyone thinks he’s the greatest. See ya. Next.
Just because he isn't plastered all over ESPN or NFL Network doesn't mean he isn't an excellent player.
Snacks wasn't either.
Good point
Does this now factor into the Giants selecting Quenton Nelson?
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In comment 13861030 madeinstars said:
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In comment 13861021 Emil said:
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In comment 13860997 BleedBlue said:
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I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league
I'd make a push for solder now.
Not that I get a vote, but if I’m Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.
The must get a QB crowd won’t like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and I’m not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.
Some of you guys want an O-line so bad, you don't want any other players.
Don’t put me in that camp. I’m not OL or bust. Also, the picks you get from a trade still allow you plenty of opportunity to get other players.
With a day to go before FA, the Giants have no starting guards, a dreadful LT, and no RT on the roster. A 37 year old QB, not a ton of cap space, an all pro SS to pay, a locker room cancer CB, and an all world but troubled WR to deal with. Gettleman is going to have to pull off a minor miracle.
As they say Rome wasn't built in day, DG is facing a multi-year rebuild, no way the OL and the rest of the weak areas on the team are going to be totally fixed this offseason and draft alone.
Very true, but we’ve been told the Giants expect to be competitive in 2018. Right now they don’t have a competitive OL.
The Giants problem has been the result of years of poor drafting. They are not going to be able to FA out of this mess. Which is why I continue to advocate for a trade down. Gettleman needs more resources to fix a subpar roster.
Is Pugh looking better to some you now?
For me, I’ve always been OK with Pugh at $8-9M/year. I never thought it was a possibility since he’s been chirping about getting every penny he can for what seems like years now.
If the market is lukewarm for him, maybe there’s a chance, but I can’t imagine the leaked allegations about people “inside the building” questioning his priorities will help anything.
Is Pugh looking better to some you now?
He would if he had played more games in his career.
But yes, the problem is a horrible draft record.
Is Pugh looking better to some you now?
For a guy who will play 8-10 games per season and gets pushed around? No thanks. He's part of the problem. It would stink of desperation if they go crawling back to him.
...to spend on several mediocre free agents.
What does that spell?
U.P.G.R.A.D.E.
When Osemele signed his $11.7m per deal, everyone said "that's too much". Gabe Jackson signs for $11m per, "that's too much" Zeitler signed his 12m per deal, "You don't pay a guard that much".
The Panthers signed Trai Turner to a, $11.2m deal three days after firing Dave Gettleman. Now it's Norwell.
Thinking has to change with the times.
TTH - The thinking has to change with respect to all positions and salaries. People have been complaining for years that Eli is overpaid, yet he earns less in salary than Mike Glennon. Even if you factor in his bonuses, his total yearly cash is $17M which is still considerably less than the going rate.
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Barely knew who this guy was a few months ago. He got mentioned as a player can help us, an upgrade and everyone thinks he’s the greatest. See ya. Next.
He didn't give up a sack or a pressure last season. He was more than an upgrade.
Up until 2017 he was more or less average.. but in 2017 he was named to first team all-pro hence he is the best/greatest at current time.. The price is lower than I thought it would be.. there is a scarcity for quality OL.. he is very young and improving.. Good for him.. I'd rather spend our money across more OL spots than use up most of our cap space or one position..
...to get rid of Eli.
This is my concern. Not that Norwell would be the sole answer to our Oline problems, but a big building block. Now the market is not strong in FA or in the draft; especially given the learning curve many Olinemen have coming from the world of spread offenses. We now need what 3 starters to join Flowers and Jones.
The Oline issue could have us in a place to have to pass on Eli’s successor or Barkley due to the need to trade back and get more picks to solidify the Oline.
...for a mere $10 million a year.
Oh, joy!
This team is not getting fixed in one year.
Do not over react to losing Norwell and chase 2nd, 3rd rate talent at pro bowl prices
The only way to fix this team long term is the draft. Hopefully Gettlemen fares better than Reese in that department.
When Osemele signed his $11.7m per deal, everyone said "that's too much". Gabe Jackson signs for $11m per, "that's too much" Zeitler signed his 12m per deal, "You don't pay a guard that much".
The Panthers signed Trai Turner to a, $11.2m deal three days after firing Dave Gettleman. Now it's Norwell.
Thinking has to change with the times.
I don't think many are saying Norwell is not worth that kind of money. He may be. I just don't think spending half our available cap space on one guard would have made sense for this team.
That's why I never bought into the 'done deal' reports. However much sense it made with Gettleman here and our need at O-line, tt never made sense financially.
...to get rid of Eli.
no way,DG saw the philly game in dec,thats the day he joined the eli cult club.
...for a mere $10 million a year.
Oh, joy!
Pugh was a good lineman when healthy. His attitude has been brought into question by someone in the organization however, based on a tweet?! He’ll get paid by somebody, I am just not so sure it will be the Giants.
So the plan was no plan?
People in the past have complained about throwing money
at a problem. There actually is a gadget play where
the QB throws stacks of money on to the field. While both
teams scramble for the dough, the QB walks to the endzone
and scores. As they say, it's the money shot.
When Osemele signed his $11.7m per deal, everyone said "that's too much". Gabe Jackson signs for $11m per, "that's too much" Zeitler signed his 12m per deal, "You don't pay a guard that much".
The Panthers signed Trai Turner to a, $11.2m deal three days after firing Dave Gettleman. Now it's Norwell.
Thinking has to change with the times.
I don't even think its that deep. People just automatically say things like this when they're disappointed that other teams are signing good players and there's isn't. Its just a defense mechanism. When the Giants have splurged here and there for players, no one really scoffed because it was their team.
But "he was only good in 2017". Ok.
There are some very good players in this draft. I still feel a couple of OL additions in free agency are gonna happen.
Stapleton also said the Giants, 49'ers and the Colts were the finalists last night. He doesn't know jack.
This team has failed at drafting linemen since 04 when Snee fell in their lap. It doesn't seem like the front office has changed much other than Reese and Ross being gone. It hasn't been reported that the people doing the actual scouting have been changed over.
They'll probably now spend the #2 overall pick on a guard, which is far and away more unheard of than signing one to a contract in line with the last several top free agents.
I would definitely bring in anything I could to go head to head with Flowers though as I think that is the piece that is the biggest hangup for Eli. And should be the easiest to beat given a fair chance in camp...
The need is the entire offensive line.
But what options are out there?
The issue is that there is no one at that level to pay to play OT.
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where the money should be allocated anyway.
The need is the entire offensive line.
It's a salary cap, that means finite dollars and spend wisely.
There are few options, that doesn't mean to spend crazed.
sundayatone : 7:29 am : link : reply
due to the qb situation
Absolutely fucking amazing that this troll appears on any thread and makes it about Eli. And M.S. agreed with him!!
Guess Mr Kick Ass, isn’t so good at selling to the players. But good at tough guy talk to excite fans.
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where the money should be allocated anyway.
The issue is that there is no one at that level to pay to play OT.
Exactly. What is backing the truck up to a 30 year old (whose play is slipping) Solder going to accomplish when the team is 2-3 years away from relevance?
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Time to pony up for Pugh?
I don’t think he is in the plans.
In 26 starts at G, Pugh only allowed Eli, a statue, to be touched 5 times. By comparison blocking for Bortles will seem like a perk for Norwell .
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FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. I’m sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems they’re kindda fucked.
Guess Mr Kick Ass, isn’t so good at selling to the players. But good at tough guy talk to excite fans.
ROSS!!!
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giants are not a good destination now
sundayatone : 7:29 am : link : reply
due to the qb situation
Absolutely fucking amazing that this troll appears on any thread and makes it about Eli. And M.S. agreed with him!!
if wanting to move on from eli ruins your life,please seek help.
I don’t think they would. At some point, you need to pony up for superior quality on that unit. It’s been a bottom tiered group for 5.5 years now. Norwell wouldn’t have fixed it, but he’d have absolutely been a good start, along with prudent drafting. Top guys get pad. That’s the new normal. Folks had better start accepting that.
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giants are not a good destination now
sundayatone : 7:29 am : link : reply
due to the qb situation
Absolutely fucking amazing that this troll appears on any thread and makes it about Eli. And M.S. agreed with him!!
Can this board stop being so hyper sensitive about Eli? The guy has nothing left. How many lawn darts, how many high and outside passes, how many times do we have to see him hurl himself on the ground and the slightest indication of pressure or fumble needlessly? Its okay to call a spade a spade. He's a bottom tier QB these days. It happens. Guys get old.
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FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. I’m sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems they’re kindda fucked.
Stapleton also said the Giants, 49'ers and the Colts were the finalists last night. He doesn't know jack.
+1,000. Reporters have no idea what other players DG is targeting.
It sucks to lose out on Norwell but it doesn’t mean the Giants are doomed.
Not saying I agree that we should be in "win now" mode, but it is a realistic notion and it happens all the time. Just because the highest paid guard in the league has slipped through Gettlemans fingers, choosing to play for a playoff team in sunny Jacksonville FL over a shitshow cold-weather team in dirty New Jersey doesn't change that.
No thanks he can take his 10 game service somewhere else
Hyper sensitive?? A guy who literally posts about nothing but eli being pure shit chimes in a thread about Norwell with his bullshit.
An OL isn't going to sign here because Eli is the QB? Are you fucking kidding?
Then in 2 years u find your next Barkley and Darnold...
There are also a few veteran OL available that would be an upgrade from what we have, and not cost nearly as much as Norwell. Guys like Josh Sitton, Josh Kline, Senio Kelemete, etc.
No thanks on Pugh. As Rotten Apple said, he's part of the problem.
They did just trade two picks and take on salary for an expensive linebacker many feel is overpaid. It's sort of a conflict of philosophies.
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The cap situation volume of draft picks and roster deficiencies this was ALWAYS going to be a rebuild over a few years. The notion of 'win now' was not at all realistic and astonishing how many fans we've seen flag-waiving the idea.
Not saying I agree that we should be in "win now" mode, but it is a realistic notion and it happens all the time. Just because the highest paid guard in the league has slipped through Gettlemans fingers, choosing to play for a playoff team in sunny Jacksonville FL over a shitshow cold-weather team in dirty New Jersey doesn't change that.
He’ll be there by week 8 or in and out all season.
Giants are getting worse so far in FA.
He's going to be tendered, but he might be a target now.
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Can this board stop being so hyper sensitive about Eli? The guy has nothing left. How many lawn darts, how many high and outside passes, how many times do we have to see him hurl himself on the ground and the slightest indication of pressure or fumble needlessly? Its okay to call a spade a spade. He's a bottom tier QB these days. It happens. Guys get old.
Hyper sensitive?? A guy who literally posts about nothing but eli being pure shit chimes in a thread about Norwell with his bullshit.
An OL isn't going to sign here because Eli is the QB? Are you fucking kidding?
I do not think Norwell signing elsewhere is Eli's fault (more to do with $, tax implications and the opportunity to win). But I do think this board is not honest with themselves in terms of what they see with our QB.
Look at how it polarizes fans who want to draft a QB and get moving forward, and how many want to trade down to pick Nelson and have multiple picks to spend on the OL in the second round of the draft.
In the end, the fact we're only one of 32 teams and there's not a ton of resources available for change means it could be short UFA season without a ton of help arriving until the draft.
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In comment 13861142 UberAlias said:
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The cap situation volume of draft picks and roster deficiencies this was ALWAYS going to be a rebuild over a few years. The notion of 'win now' was not at all realistic and astonishing how many fans we've seen flag-waiving the idea.
Not saying I agree that we should be in "win now" mode, but it is a realistic notion and it happens all the time. Just because the highest paid guard in the league has slipped through Gettlemans fingers, choosing to play for a playoff team in sunny Jacksonville FL over a shitshow cold-weather team in dirty New Jersey doesn't change that.
Yes, it can happen. But when you look at the number of deficiencies this team has and lack of resources to turn around a quick fix, how would anyone rationally EXPECT it? Maybe they will hit on a lot of late picks and the turnaround will happen quicker, but having that as the expectation is not at all realistic. Just because something can happen doesn't mean it will. Its like building your plan around hope on a long shot -just not very sensible.
A quick fix doesn't mean you fill every single hole and weakness in one season. It means you fill enough holes to make your team competitive and playoff-ready. The Giants can certainly do that *if* they choose to go that route. And you do that with due diligence. The pieces are always out there. It just takes a front office that is capable of putting them together. Reese always talked about how they "look at everyone" but I think he was full of shit. If they did look at everyone, they didn't look very hard. Its probably a more realistic scenario now than it would have been had Norwell signed here, financially speaking at least.
Look at how it polarizes fans who want to draft a QB and get moving forward, and how many want to trade down to pick Nelson and have multiple picks to spend on the OL in the second round of the draft.
In the end, the fact we're only one of 32 teams and there's not a ton of resources available for change means it could be short UFA season without a ton of help arriving until the draft.
Great post. Some people fail to realize the Giants are just one of 32 teams trying to get better in UFA. A team ith bottom half cap space at that.
Then in 2 years u find your next Barkley and Darnold...
I see your point, but problem with this is that teams spend decades looking for the franchise qb. They don't fall in laps like they did this year for us. Not that any of the qbs this year is a franchise one but the chance is there.
The Vikings had two centers in 2016 season – Joe Berger and Nick Easton – and moved both of them to guards. They drafted center Pat Elflein in the third round. They used free agency to bring in bookend tackles Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers.
Of all the questions the Vikings had on offense, while it didn’t get much in the way of attention, there was no bigger cause for internal concern as to how the incredibly new-look O-line would hold up.
The Vikings have had their share of injuries as well in 2017. Reiff has missed time. Mike Remmers has missed time. Easton has missed three games.
So if the Vikings could do this all in one season, why can't the Giants?
I was going to say this..
Online is going to take awhile to rebuild anyway..
Go sign Malcolm butler, Orlando scandrick and Nigel bradham...
Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others. I'd rather have solid Guard play at less than half that cost and spend big on premium players at premium positions.
I'm not upset we didn't get Norwell. Time to move on and get creative, which I trust DG will be able to do a hell of a lot better than Reese was.
But you need some success stories from the UDFA market on that line de certain. Even small ones...
The difference in my mind between DG and Reese is that DG has consistently found good OL talent, and I trust that he'll be able to.
Is it just poor luck, poor timing, or the hell of mediocrity?
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There are 5 spots on the OL, and G is 2 of them. Its important. This contract and the high drafting of Nelson shows that. Its important for the running game, its important to keep the interior line out of the QB's face (in fact it may be more important that T for this), and look how many times the DL stunted and our G's missed picking up the DE?
Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others. I'd rather have solid Guard play at less than half that cost and spend big on premium players at premium positions.
I'm not upset we didn't get Norwell. Time to move on and get creative, which I trust DG will be able to do a hell of a lot better than Reese was.
I am upset. Fixing the oline with quality probowl players is what this team needed for 1)an aged qb trying to make a last run and 2)a rookie qb who needs a solid oline to gain confidence and develop quickly.
Taking Nelson at 2 is a desperation move. I like Nelson but not at 2.
Right now it looks like more of the same. I hope the giants don't try to put a band aid on a gaping hole.
If gettleman can't multitask and have backup plans it will be a short stint as the GM of this team. I hope to god this isn't true...but seeing it was stapeton who said Norwell was down to 3 teams and he signed with non of those 3 teams...I will believe we do have other FA strategies.
Anybody have thoughts on Zach Fulton?
Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line
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In comment 13861187 PatersonPlank said:
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There are 5 spots on the OL, and G is 2 of them. Its important. This contract and the high drafting of Nelson shows that. Its important for the running game, its important to keep the interior line out of the QB's face (in fact it may be more important that T for this), and look how many times the DL stunted and our G's missed picking up the DE?
Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others. I'd rather have solid Guard play at less than half that cost and spend big on premium players at premium positions.
I'm not upset we didn't get Norwell. Time to move on and get creative, which I trust DG will be able to do a hell of a lot better than Reese was.
I am upset. Fixing the oline with quality probowl players is what this team needed for 1)an aged qb trying to make a last run and 2)a rookie qb who needs a solid oline to gain confidence and develop quickly.
Taking Nelson at 2 is a desperation move. I like Nelson but not at 2.
Right now it looks like more of the same. I hope the giants don't try to put a band aid on a gaping hole.
Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line
It would have gone a lot quicker if we added a pro bowl LG. Now we have to draft oline and HOPE they develop into good players.
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This is an area where JR et al were demonstrably not good enough.
There is an assumption though, that there are hidden gems. Are there always hidden gems? It's possible, maybe even probable, that no matter how smart and resourceful you are, you're plowing a barren field.
They might not even be hidden gems, they might be crusty veteran stopgaps who have a good run left in them (eg, Lomas and Parker in 2000) to get through 2018.
Not ideal, but perhaps a better option than another season of Jerry, Flowers possibly playing not at his best spot, a midget C who's probably best suited to backup, etc.
Let's see if any other UFAs get a look.
That's the approx difference in taxes between FL and NJ.
That's based on 9% NJ state income tax for income over 500K plus extra 1 % property tax.
Not only does FL have no income tax, cost of homes and living is much more reasonable.
In Jax beach or Ponte Vedra, he can get a beautiful mansion on the beach (within about 20 min of the stadium) and still be set for life if he never gets another contract.
Not to mention the weather.
I don't think this has anything to do with the QB.
The reality is, it's always money. Not only that, it's *only* money.
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I am disappointed but now you can spread that money out...
Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line
It would have gone a lot quicker if we added a pro bowl LG. Now we have to draft oline and HOPE they develop into good players.
Absolutely, getting norwell would of been a great get, but using all that money on one position would of also hampered them..
As others have said, DG has a good record of finding OL talent.
And no, this doesn't impact what we do in the draft.
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I am disappointed but now you can spread that money out...
Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line
It would have gone a lot quicker if we added a pro bowl LG. Now we have to draft oline and HOPE they develop into good players.
Short-sighted. Its like your looking for the lottery ticket to winning the superbowl on the first day of free agency...
Every year they take on a huge FA contract. Campbell and Buoye last year, plus they added Marcell Dareus and his huge contract in a trade, and they re-signed Bortles and Telvin Smith.
Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others.
The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality.
I'm not one to complain but the fact that Florida doesn't have an income tax really makes free-agency an uneven playing field
Free agency will have a big hand in how they draft..........
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Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others.
The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality.
Totally agree. You can't expect quality if you keep shopping at Goodwill
I don't know, but interior OL that hit the open market do not come cheap.
That actually sounds more like using two stones to kill one bird.
This kinda sucks, swing and a miss here. I saw Norwell as the only safe FA building block. Not much left out there.
Solder is a super risky play. Bridge is probably burned with Pugh and he's even riskier. DG and his staff should be looking at stop gaps and the under the radar guys at this point.
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Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others.
The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality.
And that doesn't mean you should pay it. I really don't care what the market says to be honest. Let other teams blow their loads and over pay at positions you don't deem worthy. If we can get a couple serviceable Guards you are going to see a huge difference anyway, not to mention the additional cap space to spend elsewhere.
Cousins is going to get $30 million a year because the market dictates it. I think we all know how that one will go down.
I must have missed the quotes of gentleman saying they were signing norwell?
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U nailed it last nite DG needs to keep his mouth shut till the player is signed
I must have missed the quotes of gentleman saying they were signing norwell?
Yeah I missed those too. Anybody have a link? ;-)
Interior will most likely be plugged via the draft with one or 2 starters taken in the first few rounds.
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In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said:
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Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others.
The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality.
And that doesn't mean you should pay it. I really don't care what the market says to be honest. Let other teams blow their loads and over pay at positions you don't deem worthy. If we can get a couple serviceable Guards you are going to see a huge difference anyway, not to mention the additional cap space to spend elsewhere.
Cousins is going to get $30 million a year because the market dictates it. I think we all know how that one will go down.
Contracts around the league are all generally derivative of each other. The first guy at a position to sign sets the dimensions of the contract of the next guy to sign. You don't have to care what the rest of the league is doing, but it's going to affect you whether you like it or not. Whether you sign free agents or try to keep your own players.
Cousins is a different animal. A legitimate top guard wants fair money for his ability level based on previous contracts. Kirk Cousins wants top QB money for midlevel talent.
Beat writers have gotten almost any move the Giants have made or didn't make wrong, yet now that Norwell signs elsewhere it is due to loose lips?
Can't make this shit up.
Maybe I've not had enough coffee, but your point is confusing to me. You said this, which is what I keyed on:
I don't think anyone has expected these deficiencies to be fixed with long term solutions in one offseason...and I didn't see the attempt to sign Norwell as a part of a larger plan to go after the best players to fix holes. To me it was a statement signing, that the offensive line is going to be a priority going forward.
You mentioned that it was astonishing to to see so many fans expect everything to be fixed immediately. Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen that notion on here much. And I don't agree thats possible. You also mentioned "win now" mode. I don't know if its a mode, but I definitely think its possible and realistic for the team to win again next season and carry that forward if they are smart about what they do.
Beat writers have gotten almost any move the Giants have made or didn't make wrong, yet now that Norwell signs elsewhere it is due to loose lips?
Can't make this shit up.
Didn't you know that no one wanted Norwell until they heard the Giants were interested?
Agreed.
Yo mad
Alarm must've gone off!!
sundayatone : 9:28 am : link : reply
now thats what an overpaid player looks like.
What happened in the end on the latest tax legislation that eliminated deducting state taxes?
My question is, does AN justify 13.3 in production / play vs the comparable production & more modest $ those others might fetch? Is he really the best G (not just on the FA market)? It was an option but I would not have been so enamored with it to consider this an 'L' for not landing him. There are many ways to skin a cat, and looking at OL as a unit this doesn't even seem like it's necessarily the best one given its multiple needs
Ja’waun James OT
Senio Kelemete OT/OG
Ryan Jensen C
EXACTLY! That mentality is what got them into this mess to begin with.
Fair enough. I haven't seen anyone really push that notion with regards to the daft and FA but I'm sure I miss plenty.
But when the first thing the new GM says is "We've got to fix the offensive line" and bangs the drum for "hogmollies", and the next thing they say is (the 37 year old fan favorite QB) "has years left", of course people are going to cry win now.
Great list right here. I like Fleming a lot. Him and Sitton would be solid additions.
Clearly. Clearly the Giants will adopt and implement a different offensive strategy and draft plan now that they didn't sign an offensive guard in FA.
Do you ever think?
Let's sign the Pitt OL and hope that our GM is a good enough scout to find some other value on the line and elsewhere.
I feel like its a matter of symantics. I'm assuming that most everyone is basically saying the same thing in different ways. It seems most are in agreement that this team can make the playoffs next year with some smart moves and also begin funneling in young talent through the draft to keep them competitive.
Or maybe I should just go drink some more coffee.
...taking the field in 2018.
Can you take pause before posting?
And now we are left at the alter and half of BBI is losing their shit.
Same shit...different FA period.
And now we are left at the alter and half of BBI is losing their shit.
Same shit...different FA period.
It's fairly obvious that the Giants offered Norwell a big contract. He just didn't want to come here. No one should be crying over not giving 13M to a guard, no matter how good he is.
Chris Snee sitting at home right now is better than Jerry.
That is the day the Giants guarantee Eli 5M....
Let's face it, we saw how Eli played behind flawed OL's in 2011 and 2017.....the difference in quarterback play, was huge.....Eli is no longer that same guy in 2011....
And if you put him behind a bad OL, he will play likewise....
It's amazing how everyone talks about one quarter, one quarter of play in the first Eagles game, to back up their argument that Eli is still a top qb....they forgot what he did in the first three quarters(zero points),,,,,,three td drives in the fourth.....one sustained drive, a short field drive after a turnover, and a short pass to Shepard that miraculously went for 77 yards and a TD......that is all anyone can point to for the highlight of Eli's season....one quarter.....
There were too many plays to be made last season, that Eli did not make.....If Eli is still on this club after March 18th, that is 10M we have flushed down the tubes this year, that could have been used in FAcy.....
With a Healthy OBj back, a more seasoned EE, and if somehow SS can take that next step, we will score points with Eli, even with a bad OL.....but it also means that this offense will continue to shoot itself in the foot at critical times....Eli will not be able to overcome that...
If this team is not a contender this year with Eli, it's time to face reality, and start the process of a complete rebuild.....yes, you put a crap product on the field this year, and continue the rebuild in the draft next year....that 10M you get from Eli? If there is no one worth spending it on, you roll it over to the next season....
We have been sucking for 6 seasons, with a mirage season thrown in....DG is not a magician.....he better have a plan....Reese didn't.....he overvalued his players, especially in the draft....
I feel Eli can still put up good numbers in the right situation.....but not behind an OL that will be going through growing pains, that can't convert a third and short, that consistently screws up with a penalty, that can't run a screen play to save it's life, and that will give Eli happy feet.....many point to the rebuild of the OL in Minny.....but that is the exception, not the norm....
The only thing that is going to turn this team around is about 3 good seasons of drafting....finding guys that are building blocks for a team.....and cutting guys that do not perform, like Jerry, Marshall, Harris, JPP(not this year but next, too costly), etc., and even Eli has to be considered....
Stapleton is 100% wrong with that statement.
+1. Not to mention the two best players on the team are on the final year of their rookie contracts and are looking to get paid big time. Just tear it down and go for the full rebuild.
Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.
We had 3 draft picks on the OL the past 3-4 years and it hasn't really worked out. Find some guys that actually stay healthy and are solid players, and then find a gem in the draft. The OL will get better.
Norwell signed with Jacksonville because they’re a young, Uber-talented team coming off an AFCC appearance. Why would he want to sign with the 3-13 Giants w equal money?
Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.
Hard to classify a 26 year old player as a stopgap. More of a building block than a quick fix.
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Blowing all the cap dollars on stopgaps to fill holes.
Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.
Hard to classify a 26 year old player as a stopgap. More of a building block than a quick fix.
I’m talking about these other names being thrown around bc the Giants lost out on Norwell. I wanted Norwell. Would’ve been worth the money.
What I don’t want is for the Giants to panic and dole out bad deals to JAGs.
The state tax differential adds more than a million dollars a year of income for teams in Florida vs. NJ. The Giants would have to have gone to a $15 million per year offer.
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In comment 13861422 WillVAB said:
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Blowing all the cap dollars on stopgaps to fill holes.
Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.
Hard to classify a 26 year old player as a stopgap. More of a building block than a quick fix.
I’m talking about these other names being thrown around bc the Giants lost out on Norwell. I wanted Norwell. Would’ve been worth the money.
What I don’t want is for the Giants to panic and dole out bad deals to JAGs.
What do you consider being smart with your money, and which players are you classifying as JAGs?
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Blowing all the cap dollars on stopgaps to fill holes.
Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.
Hard to classify a 26 year old player as a stopgap. More of a building block than a quick fix.
We had a historically poor offense in 2016 and made the playoffs because the defense was dominant. Last year, the D was average and we plummeted. Carolina went 15-1 with a suffocating D. The next year, Norman was gone, Kuechly and Davis got hurt and they missed the playoffs.
Each year there is at least 50% turnover in the playoff teams. So the Bills and Titans this year could be any of a handful of teams in the AFC. The Panthers and Vikings might be two other teams from the NFC.
We have holes to fix. So do other teams. But thinking the playoffs are out of the question is not realistic. Heck, it may not even be improbable.
People act around here like this team has zero talent, zero chance to win next year. We went 11-5 with basically having a below average offense and pretty brutal play calling.
est1986 : 10:44 am : link : reply
We have Flowers, Jerry, Jones, Halapio and Bisnowaty/Wheeler as our OL unit as of now... wtf are we doing? We can’t get Norwell or Solder? Great job so far DG
Free agency is how many days old and we are lamenting the lack of moves?
Are you serious with that shit?
Sure let's blame Gettleman. He offered the guy a fucking contract, a big one at that. What else can he do? Jesus.
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Good lord you are insufferable. So you are only willing to sign the top available talent if it comes at a lower than market value price?
There was no scenario in which Norwell was going to sign a cap friendly deal, he was clearly the top available FA o-lineman and these guys have been getting paid more and more each year.
I'm not willing to overpay right now at any position when the roster is as bad as it is.
Signing Norwell makes sense if you think we're close and he could be the piece that pushes the offense up a level. But we're not close. This is a 2-3 year rebuild. That doesn't mean we're going to go 3-13 again next year...a bad roster can still have a good season with injury and schedule luck - 2016 is a good example of that.
But if we're honest with ourselves this team has been shit for years now. The biggest reason for that has been an interruption in the draft pipeline. Overpaying Norwell (who's a good player) isn't solving that.
The New York media is a lot different animal than the Jacksonville media
One would think .....
Any rumblings?
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In comment 13861041 Emil said:
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In comment 13861030 madeinstars said:
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In comment 13861021 Emil said:
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In comment 13860997 BleedBlue said:
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I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league
I'd make a push for solder now.
Not that I get a vote, but if I’m Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.
The must get a QB crowd won’t like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and I’m not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.
Some of you guys want an O-line so bad, you don't want any other players.
Don’t put me in that camp. I’m not OL or bust. Also, the picks you get from a trade still allow you plenty of opportunity to get other players.
With a day to go before FA, the Giants have no starting guards, a dreadful LT, and no RT on the roster. A 37 year old QB, not a ton of cap space, an all pro SS to pay, a locker room cancer CB, and an all world but troubled WR to deal with. Gettleman is going to have to pull off a minor miracle.
As they say Rome wasn't built in day, DG is facing a multi-year rebuild, no way the OL and the rest of the weak areas on the team are going to be totally fixed this offseason and draft alone.
Very true, but we’ve been told the Giants expect to be competitive in 2018. Right now they don’t have a competitive OL.
The Giants problem has been the result of years of poor drafting. They are not going to be able to FA out of this mess. Which is why I continue to advocate for a trade down. Gettleman needs more resources to fix a subpar roster.
If the Giants are going nowhere than what’s the sense of signing OBJ to 100 million dollar contract might as well get something for him and might as well cut Eli.......
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We have Flowers, Jerry, Jones, Halapio and Bisnowaty/Wheeler as our OL unit as of now... wtf are we doing? We can’t get Norwell or Solder? Great job so far DG
Sure let's blame Gettleman. He offered the guy a fucking contract, a big one at that. What else can he do? Jesus.
He should have held a fucking gun to his head and told him either his brains or his signature would be on that contract.
That aint good.
I would think they make a run at Solder. I really expected McKinnon to be here as well.
Strip it down and build back up again.
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zero.
That aint good.
I would think they make a run at Solder. I really expected McKinnon to be here as well.
That's actually very good. Loose lips sink ships.
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In comment 13860985 Go Terps said:
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.
Good lord you are insufferable. So you are only willing to sign the top available talent if it comes at a lower than market value price?
There was no scenario in which Norwell was going to sign a cap friendly deal, he was clearly the top available FA o-lineman and these guys have been getting paid more and more each year.
I'm not willing to overpay right now at any position when the roster is as bad as it is.
Signing Norwell makes sense if you think we're close and he could be the piece that pushes the offense up a level. But we're not close. This is a 2-3 year rebuild. That doesn't mean we're going to go 3-13 again next year...a bad roster can still have a good season with injury and schedule luck - 2016 is a good example of that.
But if we're honest with ourselves this team has been shit for years now. The biggest reason for that has been an interruption in the draft pipeline. Overpaying Norwell (who's a good player) isn't solving that.
Terps is 100 percent right. Even when we thought the drafting got better and I'd say that occurred with Justin Pugh and Hankins in 2013. There is something up with player development.
Everyone thought that the left side of the line was set for years when we drafted Flowers in 2015. Flowers-Pugh-Richburg all 3 of those guys were premium picks in the 1st and 2nd round and 2/3 out the 3 will not be on the team next year.
Pugh had a great rookie year, Richburg had an awesome 2015 and everyone thought the arrow would be pointing up for Flowers after an up and down rookie year with a high ankle sprain.
None of it happened and I don't know the solution to fix that.
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zero.
That aint good.
I would think they make a run at Solder. I really expected McKinnon to be here as well.
Don’t want Solder. He’s 30 and by many accounts his play is slipping. What’s he going to be in 2-3 years when/if this team is relevant again?
STFU cry baby, he did all he could that was reasonable
I thought they'd reach out to Solder, we'll see.
Pugh had a great rookie year, Richburg had an awesome 2015 and everyone thought the arrow would be pointing up for Flowers after an up and down rookie year with a high ankle sprain.
None of it happened and I don't know the solution to fix that.
Flowers and Pugh don't strike me as the type of guys that work that hard. I thought Richburg was a worker, but his career here was just weird.
I don't see any other OL worth breaking the bank for. There's some speculative young OTs like Hubbard or Fleming, so they are definitely cost/structure dependent. I think the Giants will be best served rolling the dice on one of those types and looking to last contract vets as bandaids just to stop the bleeding until we can fix it the right way.
I've been saying this for some time Pete. We're 6 years towards a lost decade already with a roster full of holes.
+1
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In comment 13861447 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13861422 WillVAB said:
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Blowing all the cap dollars on stopgaps to fill holes.
Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.
Hard to classify a 26 year old player as a stopgap. More of a building block than a quick fix.
I’m talking about these other names being thrown around bc the Giants lost out on Norwell. I wanted Norwell. Would’ve been worth the money.
What I don’t want is for the Giants to panic and dole out bad deals to JAGs.
What do you consider being smart with your money, and which players are you classifying as JAGs?
Jerry, Harris, Vereen, and all the shitty LBs Reese paid for were bad FA deals. Individually their deals seem like a drop in the bucket but collectively their money adds up. I’d rather pay for one or two quality guys in FA than a handful of check in the box guys.
If the Giants want to spend the money they have look for a difference maker at LB or Safety. Otherwise they should just roll it over and use it next year for the guys they’ll need to spend it on.
Time to build the Oline through the draft, and development of young plays (ala the way Carolina did with Norwell years ago).
The good aspect to stopgaps is they're often gone after the season at end, if that's the best that can be done via UFA.
...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.
Why?
Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.
And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.
But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.
I'm imagining what Shurmur and Shula could do developing Darnold...and it's glorious
...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.
Why?
Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.
And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.
But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.
You act like a rookie QB won’t need a competent OL, only Eli does.
If the Giants go QB with a trash OL the “can’t miss franchise QB” will be the next David Carr.
This is a 2-3 year rebuild - so these picks are key to turning over this roster. Next year should be another high draft pick - with 2 #1s and a lot of cap space coming due - target your QB next year, but FIRST - see what you have with Webb. If this team is 1-4 after 5 games - Eli should no longer be starting.
and you know the Giants didn't offer him the same deal how? He could have easily chosen Jax for the weather, no state tax, better team.
This is a 2-3 year rebuild - so these picks are key to turning over this roster. Next year should be another high draft pick - with 2 #1s and a lot of cap space coming due - target your QB next year, but FIRST - see what you have with Webb. If this team is 1-4 after 5 games - Eli should no longer be starting.
You do realize next years qb class will actually not warrant a top 5 pick, right? It's going to be a historically weak class. So targeting a qb next year is a flawed plan.
It is the "I would rather have $1.00 than four quarters" saying.
I agree with you.
I don't blame him. They're a QB away from being perhaps the best team in the league.
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Time to go after Buffalo - grab those 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders, 2 3rd rounders, and a #1 pick next year. That's 8 picks in rounds 1-3 this year - use 4 of them on OL, and start the rebuild up front, use 3 of them on CB/S, and grab a RB with the other.
This is a 2-3 year rebuild - so these picks are key to turning over this roster. Next year should be another high draft pick - with 2 #1s and a lot of cap space coming due - target your QB next year, but FIRST - see what you have with Webb. If this team is 1-4 after 5 games - Eli should no longer be starting.
You do realize next years qb class will actually not warrant a top 5 pick, right? It's going to be a historically weak class. So targeting a qb next year is a flawed plan.
There are other ways to get a QB (FA), and as far as who emerges next year in CFB - will have to see how it plays out. You can't say it's a flawed plan at all when no College QB has thrown a pass yet in 2018 and in bowl games. But if they take a QB with #2 - you do nothing to fill the tons of holes on the this team, so let him sit behind Eli and watch this team go 4-12. Be ready for that
I don't blame him. They're a QB away from being perhaps the best team in the league.
Team and state - yup
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Sounds like Norwell simply chose JAX over us.
I don't blame him. They're a QB away from being perhaps the best team in the league.
Team and state - yup
So state tax laws aside, that would actually mean the NYG are not a desirable destination for FA's given the current state of the roster and all the chaos from a season ago. Awesome.
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...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.
Why?
Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.
And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.
But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.
You act like a rookie QB won’t need a competent OL, only Eli does.
If the Giants go QB with a trash OL the “can’t miss franchise QB” will be the next David Carr.
You are right, but if you are going to keep Eli then throw him to the wolves next season and let the rookie sit for a year. With a couple of draft picks this year and the cap relief from releasing Eli next offseason, they can go after top FA O-lineman. Then they may actually have a competent O-line.
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Sounds like Norwell simply chose JAX over us.
I don't blame him. They're a QB away from being perhaps the best team in the league.
Team and state - yup
$$$$ tax free
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In comment 13861874 TheVette said:
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Time to go after Buffalo - grab those 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders, 2 3rd rounders, and a #1 pick next year. That's 8 picks in rounds 1-3 this year - use 4 of them on OL, and start the rebuild up front, use 3 of them on CB/S, and grab a RB with the other.
This is a 2-3 year rebuild - so these picks are key to turning over this roster. Next year should be another high draft pick - with 2 #1s and a lot of cap space coming due - target your QB next year, but FIRST - see what you have with Webb. If this team is 1-4 after 5 games - Eli should no longer be starting.
You do realize next years qb class will actually not warrant a top 5 pick, right? It's going to be a historically weak class. So targeting a qb next year is a flawed plan.
There are other ways to get a QB (FA), and as far as who emerges next year in CFB - will have to see how it plays out. You can't say it's a flawed plan at all when no College QB has thrown a pass yet in 2018 and in bowl games. But if they take a QB with #2 - you do nothing to fill the tons of holes on the this team, so let him sit behind Eli and watch this team go 4-12. Be ready for that
Who are the Giants going to draft that will prevent this team from going 4-12 next year
You expect a trade down and then grab a bunch of starters from 1 draft class? Wishful thinking
...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.
Why?
Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.
And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.
But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.
I think the opposite and felt he would go for one or the other, not two guys who play the same position. I.e. If he landed Norwell he'd be more likely to pass on Nelson but now he might be more inclined to get him.
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...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.
Why?
Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.
And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.
But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.
You act like a rookie QB won’t need a competent OL, only Eli does.
If the Giants go QB with a trash OL the “can’t miss franchise QB” will be the next David Carr.
Oh, no... Eli gets to play behind the "trash OL" while the rookie wears a visor and carries the clip board.
It's only right.
Let the old dog take the whacks... not the spanking new spring pup.
The market for quality O-linemen is beginning to reflect their new scarcity. Guards were never worth that kind of money, but supply is low and demand is high. The market is self-correcting. The price for good guards is going up.
In theory, the supply of quality guards should increase to meet the demand and the increasing money for linemen -- but the lack of quality linemen may be due to structural factors that aren't that flexible (such as diminished practice time and colleges not developing talent at those positions).
So we might be entering a period when very good linemen get paid a lot. But that money has to come from somewhere. Are there any positions where talent is plentiful and guys are easily replaced?
Tough call. Running backs and receivers maybe?
Who are the Giants going to draft that will prevent this team from going 4-12 next year
You expect a trade down and then grab a bunch of starters from 1 draft class? Wishful thinking
As opposed to? Drafting Rosen or Darnold? That's not preventing this team from going 4-12 either. How do you expect for this team to improve such a barren roster, if they do not do it via the draft? If they trade down - they can use this draft to actually build depth and improve the talent on the roster. For all those who are against trading down - I never hear the alternative as to how the rest of the roster will be improved? What would you do? Draft a QB, and then what else? Use the next 3 drafts to build the roster?
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In comment 13861901 TheVette said:
Who are the Giants going to draft that will prevent this team from going 4-12 next year
You expect a trade down and then grab a bunch of starters from 1 draft class? Wishful thinking
As opposed to? Drafting Rosen or Darnold? That's not preventing this team from going 4-12 either. How do you expect for this team to improve such a barren roster, if they do not do it via the draft? If they trade down - they can use this draft to actually build depth and improve the talent on the roster. For all those who are against trading down - I never hear the alternative as to how the rest of the roster will be improved? What would you do? Draft a QB, and then what else? Use the next 3 drafts to build the roster?
Improve this roster to what? Playoff quality? A trade down and a bunch of rookie starters isn't going to acomplish that IMO..
Yeah take Rosen/ Darnold and if they're the studs we hope year 2-3 we could be back fairly quickly with a roster on the rise and a yound stud @ Qb
This team aint going from 3 wins to SB contender come on that's just fallacy
Screw the quick fix because it rarely works and let's do this the right way and IMO it starts with a young top notch Qb
I am disappointed in Norwell going to the Jags(Happy for Coach Coughlin) but there is plenty of OL Free Agents. Yes they aren't Norwell but again since this team is a mess you got to find a way to plug these holes until you draft and develop a couple of OLman
Solder-Henderson-Fleming-Sitton-Kline-Fusco would be good options
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In comment 13861848 M.S. said:
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...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.
Why?
Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.
And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.
But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.
You act like a rookie QB won’t need a competent OL, only Eli does.
If the Giants go QB with a trash OL the “can’t miss franchise QB” will be the next David Carr.
Oh, no... Eli gets to play behind the "trash OL" while the rookie wears a visor and carries the clip board.
It's only right.
Let the old dog take the whacks... not the spanking new spring pup.
Don’t understand why you’re using quotes around trash OL. It’s a fact.
So ‘19 is the year the Giants get 3-5 new competent offensive linemen?
Just keep kicking the can down the road.
Of course our O-line is trash... not one BBIer would believe otherwise.
All I'm saying is that we need a new franchise QB and, if we cannot fix the line in one off-season, my overwhelming preference is to let Eli take the beating, not our rookie QB.
Not so easy to build a good Oline is it?
...to get rid of Eli.
Quote:
FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. I’m sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems they’re kindda fucked.
Guess Mr Kick Ass, isn’t so good at selling to the players. But good at tough guy talk to excite fans.