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Schefter: Norwell to sign with Jacksonville

Defenderdawg : 3/13/2018 6:33 am
Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter)
3/13/18, 6:31 AM
Former Panthersí G Andrew Norwell intends to sign with the Jaguars on a 5-year deal for $66.5 million, including $30M fully guaranteed, source tells ESPN. He is going to become NFLís highest paid guard - $13.3 million average.
So much for "done deal"  
ZogZerg : 3/13/2018 6:36 am : link
bullshit...
It's early and all, maybe I just didn't read this right  
ZogZerg : 3/13/2018 6:37 am : link
Quote:

Art Stapleton (@art_stapleton)
3/12/18, 8:40 PM
Hearing All-Pro guard Andrew Norwell is down to three finalists: #49ers, #Colts and #NYGiants, per league source.
No income tax  
eclipz928 : 3/13/2018 6:37 am : link
in Florida...
This would be a huge blow  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 6:40 am : link
And very disappointing.
At that number they can have him  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 6:41 am : link
.
Hopefully they use this money wisely  
Big Rick in FL : 3/13/2018 6:41 am : link
Should be able to get 2 starting OL for that price.
Well Mr. Gettleman  
Emil : 3/13/2018 6:43 am : link
Certainly has his work cut out for him.
RE: Hopefully they use this money wisely  
Emil : 3/13/2018 6:44 am : link
In comment 13860986 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Should be able to get 2 starting OL for that price.


Very true, but who.

Got to wonder how much Solder is going to get.
Cuzzo got paid  
TheGhostofBlueGuy : 3/13/2018 6:45 am : link
Good for him. You earned it.
It's down to the Giants, 49ers, and Colts..  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 6:46 am : link
No wait! He's signing with Jacksonville!
DG already get used to Reeseís chair  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2018 6:46 am : link
and sleeping at the switch...
Annnnnnndddddd  
bigfrank612 : 3/13/2018 6:46 am : link
Just like that weíre fucked
Would have been Nice  
djstat : 3/13/2018 6:47 am : link
But glad DG didnít pony up that kind of coin for him.
Really disappointed  
BleedBlue : 3/13/2018 6:48 am : link
I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league

I'd make a push for solder now.
I'm just happy  
madeinstars : 3/13/2018 6:51 am : link
We didn't spend half our cap space on a guard.
Like George Young said  
NikkiMac : 3/13/2018 6:53 am : link
Itís always about the money 💴 and 3-13 last year doesnít help......
Wow this sucks  
Rjanyg : 3/13/2018 6:53 am : link
Want Norwell but that price is crazy. Jacksonville is building quite the team down there.

Tom Coughlin overpaying the hog Molies.
Tom Coughlin just gave the Giants the finger.  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 6:55 am : link
.
Wow  
NikkiMac : 3/13/2018 6:55 am : link
What do left tackles get now 20 million ?
The odds for a trade down may have just increased.  
GMen23 : 3/13/2018 6:56 am : link
If Barkley goes 1, and we don't love Darnold, et all, Trading two for 4 and 33, 35, may have just got more realistic. We need Norwell or Nelson. I know it's a long way to the draft, but 5 JAGS on the OL ain't cutting.
Oh well. Not the end of the world.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/13/2018 6:58 am : link
That's a ton of $ for him too.
Why  
bigfrank612 : 3/13/2018 6:59 am : link
Is everyone acting surprised by the contract numbers for Norwell? Itís been said for months now that he would get $13mil/per. The contract has been compared to zeitlers all off season. Have no idea what you guys expected him to get and what NYG would have to offer.
...  
Mdgiantsfan : 3/13/2018 6:59 am : link
Big swing and a miss smh
Some free agents it appears want to sign with teams...  
GFAN52 : 3/13/2018 7:01 am : link
with the best shot at the playoffs.
Itís disappointing to lose out on him  
bigbluehoya : 3/13/2018 7:03 am : link
But Iíd have been a bit disappointed paying that much, if Iím honest.

As a side note, the professional sports leagues have a real competitive balance issue on their hands with the incongruity in state taxes, IMO.
The giants need more then 1 player on Ol  
DavidinBMNY : 3/13/2018 7:03 am : link
And they are the team staring Nelson, who also is a guard in the face in FA.

I expect they will sign 1 or 2 lesser OL.
maybe we go the mobile QB route now  
brunswick : 3/13/2018 7:06 am : link
...
RE: Really disappointed  
Emil : 3/13/2018 7:06 am : link
In comment 13860997 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league

I'd make a push for solder now.


Not that I get a vote, but if Iím Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.

The must get a QB crowd wonít like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and Iím not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.
Thatís a lot of cheddar.  
McNally's_Nuts : 3/13/2018 7:09 am : link
I think at that point, the answer is probably no.
Frank I agree  
Chip : 3/13/2018 7:09 am : link
I thought it would have been closer to 14 mil a year. Structure the contract in year one at 7 mil. TC gets revenge
That does suck......we really need tackles  
George from PA : 3/13/2018 7:10 am : link
As we can make due with our guards.

Still had my hopes to get a pro bowl guard.....
Fine.

Lets get the line fixed some other way
RE: RE: Really disappointed  
madeinstars : 3/13/2018 7:12 am : link
In comment 13861021 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13860997 BleedBlue said:


Quote:


I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league

I'd make a push for solder now.



Not that I get a vote, but if Iím Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.

The must get a QB crowd wonít like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and Iím not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.


Some of you guys want an O-line so bad, you don't want any other players.
Time to go out  
bigbluehoya : 3/13/2018 7:13 am : link
And nab Quinton Spain on a RFA deal that makes it hard for TEN to match. Ten already has a lot invested in their OL, so maybe it wonít take silly numbers to get something done. Worst case scenario, TEN matches and you played a price-enforcing role in the market.
Go after Solder now  
jeff57 : 3/13/2018 7:13 am : link
Focus on the interior in the draft.
Not Getting a QB will keep Jags from SB  
Giants1956 : 3/13/2018 7:14 am : link
In comment 13861005 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
Want Norwell but that price is crazy. Jacksonville is building quite the team down there.

Tom Coughlin overpaying the hog Molies.


But when will he get a QB?
Did the same thing 1996 with Jags.

https://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/roster/1996

Good news  
Chip : 3/13/2018 7:15 am : link
It does set the market for Zack Martin at 14 mil and Dallas will have to deal with him next season.
FWIW  
Defenderdawg : 3/13/2018 7:15 am : link
Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter)
3/13/18, 7:06 AM
Highest Average Annual Value - Current OL Contracts:

G Andrew Norwell $13.3M
OT Russell Okung $13.25M
OT Trent Williams $13.2M
Above link for 1996 Jag's roster  
Giants1956 : 3/13/2018 7:15 am : link
I corrected
Link - ( New Window )
Best thing that has happened  
section125 : 3/13/2018 7:16 am : link
in FA so far. That is waaaayyyyyyy to much money for a guard. Yes he is good, very good, but he alone will not solve the oline problem.
RE: RE: RE: Really disappointed  
Emil : 3/13/2018 7:18 am : link
In comment 13861030 madeinstars said:
Quote:
In comment 13861021 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13860997 BleedBlue said:


Quote:


I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league

I'd make a push for solder now.



Not that I get a vote, but if Iím Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.

The must get a QB crowd wonít like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and Iím not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.



Some of you guys want an O-line so bad, you don't want any other players.


Donít put me in that camp. Iím not OL or bust. Also, the picks you get from a trade still allow you plenty of opportunity to get other players.

With a day to go before FA, the Giants have no starting guards, a dreadful LT, and no RT on the roster. A 37 year old QB, not a ton of cap space, an all pro SS to pay, a locker room cancer CB, and an all world but troubled WR to deal with. Gettleman is going to have to pull off a minor miracle.
RE: Good news  
Emil : 3/13/2018 7:19 am : link
In comment 13861036 Chip said:
Quote:
It does set the market for Zack Martin at 14 mil and Dallas will have to deal with him next season.


Silver lining
The top guard signed for 12.5 last season.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 7:22 am : link
It's not a crazy contract. Either you want good players or you don't.
Yea  
big canoe jeff : 3/13/2018 7:22 am : link
Good indictment on Reese. Roster looks like that of an expansion team.
Money Money Money  
Dragon : 3/13/2018 7:24 am : link
Nah itís not about the Money? Never felt this was a good move for us so itís a great signing.
What is this I'm experiencing right now.  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 7:25 am : link
It feels familiar....like I've been here before.

Oh, oh yeah...I remember now. Its having high hopes that come crashing down in disappointment. There was a term for that though... what was it... right on the tip of my tongue...

OH! Thats right.

Being a Giants fan.
Big deal  
Fish : 3/13/2018 7:25 am : link
Barely knew who this guy was a few months ago. He got mentioned as a player can help us, an upgrade and everyone thinks heís the greatest. See ya. Next.
Fournette and Bortles are happy,  
Diver_Down : 3/13/2018 7:26 am : link
and it is evident that TC has the Bank locked down. The tweet last night had no indication that Norwell was in consideration with Jax. 12 hours later - he has agreed in principle to be the highest paid guard on the First Coast. No leaks on TC's ship.
RE: At that number they can have him  
Giantology : 3/13/2018 7:27 am : link
In comment 13860985 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


Good lord you are insufferable. So you are only willing to sign the top available talent if it comes at a lower than market value price?

There was no scenario in which Norwell was going to sign a cap friendly deal, he was clearly the top available FA o-lineman and these guys have been getting paid more and more each year.
The saga of attempting to fix the O-line  
Sonic Youth : 3/13/2018 7:27 am : link
continues and moves into it's 6th year on a bad note.
Another year of futility  
Reb8thVA : 3/13/2018 7:29 am : link
Smacking us in the face. Yeah it was a lot of coin to lay down but thatís what happens when your drafting consistently sucks for the last six years. There are consequence. In Reese we Trust
giants are not a good destination now  
sundayatone : 3/13/2018 7:29 am : link
due to the qb situation
This is an example why it may be difficult to replace and rebuild this  
micky : 3/13/2018 7:30 am : link
OL. There's not very much quality of them throughout the league except for a few. And when they become available, you're going to have to spend which at some point isn't wise to put the majority of your cap space to that position.

Hopefully, find some in draft and hope they work out. This is also why, imo, having to go with eli at qb and the somewhat lack of protection up front isn't ideal, but understand why thoughi
The FA OL market  
Reb8thVA : 3/13/2018 7:31 am : link
Was slim to begin with. I would have preferred quality over quantity so we could at least have a foundation to build out from
RE: RE: RE: RE: Really disappointed  
GFAN52 : 3/13/2018 7:32 am : link
In comment 13861041 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13861030 madeinstars said:


Quote:


In comment 13861021 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13860997 BleedBlue said:


Quote:


I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league

I'd make a push for solder now.



Not that I get a vote, but if Iím Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.

The must get a QB crowd wonít like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and Iím not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.



Some of you guys want an O-line so bad, you don't want any other players.



Donít put me in that camp. Iím not OL or bust. Also, the picks you get from a trade still allow you plenty of opportunity to get other players.

With a day to go before FA, the Giants have no starting guards, a dreadful LT, and no RT on the roster. A 37 year old QB, not a ton of cap space, an all pro SS to pay, a locker room cancer CB, and an all world but troubled WR to deal with. Gettleman is going to have to pull off a minor miracle.


As they say Rome wasn't built in day, DG is facing a multi-year rebuild, no way the OL and the rest of the weak areas on the team are going to be totally fixed this offseason and draft alone.
RE: Itís disappointing to lose out on him  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/13/2018 7:33 am : link
In comment 13861018 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
But Iíd have been a bit disappointed paying that much, if Iím honest.

As a side note, the professional sports leagues have a real competitive balance issue on their hands with the incongruity in state taxes, IMO.
Not just sports teams...
Pugh  
Mdgiantsfan : 3/13/2018 7:33 am : link
Time to pony up for Pugh?
RE: giants are not a good destination now  
Giantology : 3/13/2018 7:34 am : link
In comment 13861057 sundayatone said:
Quote:
due to the qb situation


Yeah, Iím sure thatís the reason here. Norwell really preferring to play with Blake fucking Bortles. Lol!
RE: giants are not a good destination now  
M.S. : 3/13/2018 7:34 am : link
In comment 13861057 sundayatone said:
Quote:
due to the qb situation

P.R.E.C.I.S.E.L.Y.
RE: giants are not a good destination now  
Rflairr : 3/13/2018 7:35 am : link
In comment 13861057 sundayatone said:
Quote:
due to the qb situation


But a team with shitty Blake Bortles is?

This is what I was afraid of with Gettleman as GM. Part of being a good GM is convincing good players to sign with you. Several teams have money. Can you sell yourself and the team
Maybe this will give Eli pause about...  
M.S. : 3/13/2018 7:35 am : link

...taking the field in 2018.

Would have been nice to have  
Biteymax22 : 3/13/2018 7:36 am : link
But this draft is deep in interior OLine and you can find a starter on day 2 or 3. Tackles are another story, take the money younwere prepared to spend on Norwell and get a tackle.
RE: Big deal  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/13/2018 7:37 am : link
In comment 13861050 Fish said:
Quote:
Barely knew who this guy was a few months ago. He got mentioned as a player can help us, an upgrade and everyone thinks heís the greatest. See ya. Next.
He didn't give up a sack or a pressure last season. He was more than an upgrade.
There's a running theme here.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 7:37 am : link
People don't seem aware of market rates for the best available free agent linemen.

When Osemele signed his $11.7m per deal, everyone said "that's too much". Gabe Jackson signs for $11m per, "that's too much" Zeitler signed his 12m per deal, "You don't pay a guard that much".

The Panthers signed Trai Turner to a, $11.2m deal three days after firing Dave Gettleman. Now it's Norwell.

Thinking has to change with the times.
RE: RE: giants are not a good destination now  
M.S. : 3/13/2018 7:37 am : link
In comment 13861066 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 13861057 sundayatone said:


Quote:


due to the qb situation



But a team with shitty Blake Bortles is?

This is what I was afraid of with Gettleman as GM. Part of being a good GM is convincing good players to sign with you. Several teams have money. Can you sell yourself and the team

A young Jags team came 4 points from making it to the Super Bowl. The Giants were 4 million miles away, and that distance multiples with every additional Eli year.
And after him and Solder, who I donít want here,  
The_Boss : 3/13/2018 7:37 am : link
The OL talent drops off a cliff. Expect another horseshit OL in 2018.
RE: Big deal  
Toth029 : 3/13/2018 7:37 am : link
In comment 13861050 Fish said:
Quote:
Barely knew who this guy was a few months ago. He got mentioned as a player can help us, an upgrade and everyone thinks heís the greatest. See ya. Next.

Just because he isn't plastered all over ESPN or NFL Network doesn't mean he isn't an excellent player.

Snacks wasn't either.
RE: Pugh  
Emil : 3/13/2018 7:38 am : link
In comment 13861063 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
Time to pony up for Pugh?


I donít think he is in the plans.
Not going to quick fix the Oline chuckleheads  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2018 7:40 am : link
unless we start drafting better.

Is Pugh looking better to some you now?
RE: RE: Big deal  
Fish : 3/13/2018 7:40 am : link
In comment 13861075 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 13861050 Fish said:


Quote:


Barely knew who this guy was a few months ago. He got mentioned as a player can help us, an upgrade and everyone thinks heís the greatest. See ya. Next.


Just because he isn't plastered all over ESPN or NFL Network doesn't mean he isn't an excellent player.

Snacks wasn't either.


Good point
It's going to be funny to see the reaction  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 7:40 am : link
when people see what their favorite punching bag Pugh signs for.
Go Figure...  
M.S. : 3/13/2018 7:41 am : link
...it's axiomatic that you don't draft a Guard at #1 or #2 but in the meantime the best NFL Guards are being lavished with dollars.

Does this now factor into the Giants selecting Quenton Nelson?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Really disappointed  
Emil : 3/13/2018 7:43 am : link
In comment 13861061 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 13861041 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13861030 madeinstars said:


Quote:


In comment 13861021 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13860997 BleedBlue said:


Quote:


I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league

I'd make a push for solder now.



Not that I get a vote, but if Iím Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.

The must get a QB crowd wonít like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and Iím not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.



Some of you guys want an O-line so bad, you don't want any other players.



Donít put me in that camp. Iím not OL or bust. Also, the picks you get from a trade still allow you plenty of opportunity to get other players.

With a day to go before FA, the Giants have no starting guards, a dreadful LT, and no RT on the roster. A 37 year old QB, not a ton of cap space, an all pro SS to pay, a locker room cancer CB, and an all world but troubled WR to deal with. Gettleman is going to have to pull off a minor miracle.



As they say Rome wasn't built in day, DG is facing a multi-year rebuild, no way the OL and the rest of the weak areas on the team are going to be totally fixed this offseason and draft alone.


Very true, but weíve been told the Giants expect to be competitive in 2018. Right now they donít have a competitive OL.

The Giants problem has been the result of years of poor drafting. They are not going to be able to FA out of this mess. Which is why I continue to advocate for a trade down. Gettleman needs more resources to fix a subpar roster.
RE: Not going to quick fix the Oline chuckleheads  
bigbluehoya : 3/13/2018 7:44 am : link
In comment 13861079 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
unless we start drafting better.

Is Pugh looking better to some you now?


For me, Iíve always been OK with Pugh at $8-9M/year. I never thought it was a possibility since heís been chirping about getting every penny he can for what seems like years now.

If the market is lukewarm for him, maybe thereís a chance, but I canít imagine the leaked allegations about people ďinside the buildingĒ questioning his priorities will help anything.
RE: Not going to quick fix the Oline chuckleheads  
Emil : 3/13/2018 7:44 am : link
In comment 13861079 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
unless we start drafting better.

Is Pugh looking better to some you now?


He would if he had played more games in his career.

But yes, the problem is a horrible draft record.
RE: Not going to quick fix the Oline chuckleheads  
RottenApple : 3/13/2018 7:45 am : link
In comment 13861079 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
unless we start drafting better.

Is Pugh looking better to some you now?


For a guy who will play 8-10 games per season and gets pushed around? No thanks. He's part of the problem. It would stink of desperation if they go crawling back to him.
Now we have a decent amount of money...  
M.S. : 3/13/2018 7:45 am : link

...to spend on several mediocre free agents.

What does that spell?

U.P.G.R.A.D.E.
RE: There's a running theme here.  
Diver_Down : 3/13/2018 7:45 am : link
In comment 13861071 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
People don't seem aware of market rates for the best available free agent linemen.

When Osemele signed his $11.7m per deal, everyone said "that's too much". Gabe Jackson signs for $11m per, "that's too much" Zeitler signed his 12m per deal, "You don't pay a guard that much".

The Panthers signed Trai Turner to a, $11.2m deal three days after firing Dave Gettleman. Now it's Norwell.

Thinking has to change with the times.


TTH - The thinking has to change with respect to all positions and salaries. People have been complaining for years that Eli is overpaid, yet he earns less in salary than Mike Glennon. Even if you factor in his bonuses, his total yearly cash is $17M which is still considerably less than the going rate.
RE: RE: Big deal  
chuckydee9 : 3/13/2018 7:46 am : link
In comment 13861070 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
In comment 13861050 Fish said:


Quote:


Barely knew who this guy was a few months ago. He got mentioned as a player can help us, an upgrade and everyone thinks heís the greatest. See ya. Next.

He didn't give up a sack or a pressure last season. He was more than an upgrade.


Up until 2017 he was more or less average.. but in 2017 he was named to first team all-pro hence he is the best/greatest at current time.. The price is lower than I thought it would be.. there is a scarcity for quality OL.. he is very young and improving.. Good for him.. I'd rather spend our money across more OL spots than use up most of our cap space or one position..
Maybe this is Gettleman's secret ploy...  
M.S. : 3/13/2018 7:46 am : link

...to get rid of Eli.
RE: And after him and Solder, who I donít want here,  
Mdgiantsfan : 3/13/2018 7:47 am : link
In comment 13861073 The_Boss said:
Quote:
The OL talent drops off a cliff. Expect another horseshit OL in 2018.


This is my concern. Not that Norwell would be the sole answer to our Oline problems, but a big building block. Now the market is not strong in FA or in the draft; especially given the learning curve many Olinemen have coming from the world of spread offenses. We now need what 3 starters to join Flowers and Jones.

The Oline issue could have us in a place to have to pass on Eliís successor or Barkley due to the need to trade back and get more picks to solidify the Oline.
I think we can get Pugh back...  
M.S. : 3/13/2018 7:47 am : link

...for a mere $10 million a year.

Oh, joy!
Guys like Sitton and Pugh  
Simms11 : 3/13/2018 7:48 am : link
are going to get more now then they probably should get, but letís face it, all salaries are climbing in the NFL. DG has to be very aggressive in his continued look for Oline now. Reese left the freaking Oline in such a mess. I can almost assure you the 2 of our 5 picks in the draft will be on the Oline now too.

This team is not getting fixed in one year.
I hope DG does not panic and ovwr pay for lesser talent  
George from PA : 3/13/2018 7:48 am : link
Stay the course.


Do not over react to losing Norwell and chase 2nd, 3rd rate talent at pro bowl prices
Jags went with Norwell over Pugh  
ZogZerg : 3/13/2018 7:48 am : link
..
.......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 3/13/2018 7:48 am : link
Can't blame the Gmen for not beating that contract.

The only way to fix this team long term is the draft. Hopefully Gettlemen fares better than Reese in that department.
Stapleton wrote that Norwell was consuming the NYG  
The_Boss : 3/13/2018 7:49 am : link
FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. Iím sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems theyíre kindda fucked.
RE: There's a running theme here.  
madeinstars : 3/13/2018 7:49 am : link
In comment 13861071 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
People don't seem aware of market rates for the best available free agent linemen.

When Osemele signed his $11.7m per deal, everyone said "that's too much". Gabe Jackson signs for $11m per, "that's too much" Zeitler signed his 12m per deal, "You don't pay a guard that much".

The Panthers signed Trai Turner to a, $11.2m deal three days after firing Dave Gettleman. Now it's Norwell.

Thinking has to change with the times.


I don't think many are saying Norwell is not worth that kind of money. He may be. I just don't think spending half our available cap space on one guard would have made sense for this team.

That's why I never bought into the 'done deal' reports. However much sense it made with Gettleman here and our need at O-line, tt never made sense financially.
RE: Maybe this is Gettleman's secret ploy...  
sundayatone : 3/13/2018 7:50 am : link
In comment 13861097 M.S. said:
Quote:

...to get rid of Eli.


no way,DG saw the philly game in dec,thats the day he joined the eli cult club.
RE: I think we can get Pugh back...  
Simms11 : 3/13/2018 7:51 am : link
In comment 13861099 M.S. said:
Quote:

...for a mere $10 million a year.

Oh, joy!


Pugh was a good lineman when healthy. His attitude has been brought into question by someone in the organization however, based on a tweet?! Heíll get paid by somebody, I am just not so sure it will be the Giants.
RE: Stapleton wrote that Norwell was consuming the NYG  
RottenApple : 3/13/2018 7:51 am : link
In comment 13861105 The_Boss said:
Quote:
FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. Iím sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems theyíre kindda fucked.


So the plan was no plan?
RE: Best thing that has happened  
Giants1956 : 3/13/2018 7:51 am : link
In comment 13861039 section125 said:
Quote:
in FA so far. That is waaaayyyyyyy to much money for a guard. Yes he is good, very good, but he alone will not solve the oline problem.


People in the past have complained about throwing money
at a problem. There actually is a gadget play where
the QB throws stacks of money on to the field. While both
teams scramble for the dough, the QB walks to the endzone
and scores. As they say, it's the money shot.
RE: There's a running theme here.  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 7:51 am : link
In comment 13861071 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
People don't seem aware of market rates for the best available free agent linemen.

When Osemele signed his $11.7m per deal, everyone said "that's too much". Gabe Jackson signs for $11m per, "that's too much" Zeitler signed his 12m per deal, "You don't pay a guard that much".

The Panthers signed Trai Turner to a, $11.2m deal three days after firing Dave Gettleman. Now it's Norwell.

Thinking has to change with the times.


I don't even think its that deep. People just automatically say things like this when they're disappointed that other teams are signing good players and there's isn't. Its just a defense mechanism. When the Giants have splurged here and there for players, no one really scoffed because it was their team.

In  
Toth029 : 3/13/2018 7:52 am : link
60 starts, he's been penalized six times and only given up six sacks.

But "he was only good in 2017". Ok.
The best way to rebuild this line  
Rjanyg : 3/13/2018 7:52 am : link
Is through the draft but like some have said, you may have to pass on the QB this year. Trading down even 2 spots should next Nelson, but trading with Buffalo could next McGlinchy and Hernandez or Price.

There are some very good players in this draft. I still feel a couple of OL additions in free agency are gonna happen.
Well... DG found Norwell as a UDFA  
GiantsRage2007 : 3/13/2018 7:53 am : link
We have to hope he finds more like him in the draft or as UDFAs. I wouldn't expect a 1 yr turnaround in the OL, just as it took Norwell a few yrs to develop, but I also don't think the Giants are 1 year away from being a contender either. The mess our personell is in from the last few years of poor drafting in later rounds and misses in the 1st and 2nd (Flowers/Pugh/Richberg/etc) leave us more than 1 OG away from a stable and good OL.
There are several guards in the draft.  
Ira : 3/13/2018 7:56 am : link
I'd like to see the Giants draft Isaiah Wynn.
RE: Stapleton wrote that Norwell was consuming the NYG  
madeinstars : 3/13/2018 7:56 am : link
In comment 13861105 The_Boss said:
Quote:
FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. Iím sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems theyíre kindda fucked.


Stapleton also said the Giants, 49'ers and the Colts were the finalists last night. He doesn't know jack.
Even if you believe the best way to build the OL is through the draft,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 7:57 am : link
which is fine to think...

This team has failed at drafting linemen since 04 when Snee fell in their lap. It doesn't seem like the front office has changed much other than Reese and Ross being gone. It hasn't been reported that the people doing the actual scouting have been changed over.

They'll probably now spend the #2 overall pick on a guard, which is far and away more unheard of than signing one to a contract in line with the last several top free agents.
Well that fucking sucks  
Heisenberg : 3/13/2018 7:58 am : link
Good on ol Tom, I guess.
We have a bigger need at OT  
JonC : 3/13/2018 8:01 am : link
where the money should be allocated anyway.
Looks like DG is gonna have to do Jerry Reeseís thing  
The_Boss : 3/13/2018 8:02 am : link
Dumpster Diving for OL help. Somethings never change.
Fixing the Oline can happen relatively soon but it requires  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2018 8:02 am : link
some clustering of draft picks this year and next at the position. Let stiff competition between some of the holdovers from last year and the rookies drive a unit that may not have any studs but is serviceable at the beginning and develops into very capable. It would be nice to add a free agent this year but stay away from the top player at their position please.

I would definitely bring in anything I could to go head to head with Flowers though as I think that is the piece that is the biggest hangup for Eli. And should be the easiest to beat given a fair chance in camp...

RE: We have a bigger need at OT  
RottenApple : 3/13/2018 8:03 am : link
In comment 13861122 JonC said:
Quote:
where the money should be allocated anyway.


The need is the entire offensive line.
RE: We have a bigger need at OT  
Rflairr : 3/13/2018 8:03 am : link
In comment 13861122 JonC said:
Quote:
where the money should be allocated anyway.


But what options are out there?
RE: We have a bigger need at OT  
Jon in NYC : 3/13/2018 8:03 am : link
In comment 13861122 JonC said:
Quote:
where the money should be allocated anyway.


The issue is that there is no one at that level to pay to play OT.
RE: Stapleton wrote that Norwell was consuming the NYG  
UberAlias : 3/13/2018 8:05 am : link
In comment 13861105 The_Boss said:
Quote:
FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. Iím sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems theyíre kindda fucked.
I hope this is not true. Super irresponsible if it was.
RE: RE: We have a bigger need at OT  
JonC : 3/13/2018 8:05 am : link
In comment 13861126 RottenApple said:
Quote:
In comment 13861122 JonC said:


Quote:


where the money should be allocated anyway.



The need is the entire offensive line.


It's a salary cap, that means finite dollars and spend wisely.

There are few options, that doesn't mean to spend crazed.
Hey look..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 8:05 am : link
a thread that has nothing to do with Eli and look who shows up:

Quote:
giants are not a good destination now
sundayatone : 7:29 am : link : reply
due to the qb situation


Absolutely fucking amazing that this troll appears on any thread and makes it about Eli. And M.S. agreed with him!!

Googs  
JonC : 3/13/2018 8:06 am : link
with a ding ding.
RE: Stapleton wrote that Norwell was consuming the NYG  
Rflairr : 3/13/2018 8:06 am : link
In comment 13861105 The_Boss said:
Quote:
FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. Iím sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems theyíre kindda fucked.


Guess Mr Kick Ass, isnít so good at selling to the players. But good at tough guy talk to excite fans.
RE: RE: We have a bigger need at OT  
The_Boss : 3/13/2018 8:06 am : link
In comment 13861128 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13861122 JonC said:


Quote:


where the money should be allocated anyway.



The issue is that there is no one at that level to pay to play OT.


Exactly. What is backing the truck up to a 30 year old (whose play is slipping) Solder going to accomplish when the team is 2-3 years away from relevance?
RE: RE: Pugh  
RetroJint : 3/13/2018 8:07 am : link
In comment 13861076 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13861063 Mdgiantsfan said:


Quote:


Time to pony up for Pugh?



I donít think he is in the plans.

In 26 starts at G, Pugh only allowed Eli, a statue, to be touched 5 times. By comparison blocking for Bortles will seem like a perk for Norwell .
Same people bitching..  
Sean : 3/13/2018 8:09 am : link
are the same people who would be saying we overpaid for a 3-13 team.
The reality is  
UberAlias : 3/13/2018 8:11 am : link
The cap situation volume of draft picks and roster deficiencies this was ALWAYS going to be a rebuild over a few years. The notion of 'win now' was not at all realistic and astonishing how many fans we've seen flag-waiving the idea.
RE: RE: Stapleton wrote that Norwell was consuming the NYG  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 8:12 am : link
In comment 13861134 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 13861105 The_Boss said:


Quote:


FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. Iím sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems theyíre kindda fucked.



Guess Mr Kick Ass, isnít so good at selling to the players. But good at tough guy talk to excite fans.


ROSS!!!
Why donít we  
Josiah31 : 3/13/2018 8:12 am : link
Just sign Mckinnion, so we can all get off the Barkley train, and either trade our pick down a few spots and select Nelson, or just draft him at 2. Kill two birds with one stone.
At least we have Herzlich locked up  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 3/13/2018 8:12 am : link
.
RE: Hey look..  
sundayatone : 3/13/2018 8:13 am : link
In comment 13861132 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
a thread that has nothing to do with Eli and look who shows up:



Quote:


giants are not a good destination now
sundayatone : 7:29 am : link : reply
due to the qb situation



Absolutely fucking amazing that this troll appears on any thread and makes it about Eli. And M.S. agreed with him!!


if wanting to move on from eli ruins your life,please seek help.
RE: Same people bitching..  
The_Boss : 3/13/2018 8:13 am : link
In comment 13861139 Sean said:
Quote:
are the same people who would be saying we overpaid for a 3-13 team.


I donít think they would. At some point, you need to pony up for superior quality on that unit. Itís been a bottom tiered group for 5.5 years now. Norwell wouldnít have fixed it, but heíd have absolutely been a good start, along with prudent drafting. Top guys get pad. Thatís the new normal. Folks had better start accepting that.
RE: Hey look..  
Pep22 : 3/13/2018 8:14 am : link
In comment 13861132 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
a thread that has nothing to do with Eli and look who shows up:



Quote:


giants are not a good destination now
sundayatone : 7:29 am : link : reply
due to the qb situation



Absolutely fucking amazing that this troll appears on any thread and makes it about Eli. And M.S. agreed with him!!


Can this board stop being so hyper sensitive about Eli? The guy has nothing left. How many lawn darts, how many high and outside passes, how many times do we have to see him hurl himself on the ground and the slightest indication of pressure or fumble needlessly? Its okay to call a spade a spade. He's a bottom tier QB these days. It happens. Guys get old.
RE: RE: Stapleton wrote that Norwell was consuming the NYG  
RobCarpenter : 3/13/2018 8:15 am : link
In comment 13861116 madeinstars said:
Quote:
In comment 13861105 The_Boss said:


Quote:


FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. Iím sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems theyíre kindda fucked.



Stapleton also said the Giants, 49'ers and the Colts were the finalists last night. He doesn't know jack.


+1,000. Reporters have no idea what other players DG is targeting.

It sucks to lose out on Norwell but it doesnít mean the Giants are doomed.
RE: The reality is  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 8:15 am : link
In comment 13861142 UberAlias said:
Quote:
The cap situation volume of draft picks and roster deficiencies this was ALWAYS going to be a rebuild over a few years. The notion of 'win now' was not at all realistic and astonishing how many fans we've seen flag-waiving the idea.


Not saying I agree that we should be in "win now" mode, but it is a realistic notion and it happens all the time. Just because the highest paid guard in the league has slipped through Gettlemans fingers, choosing to play for a playoff team in sunny Jacksonville FL over a shitshow cold-weather team in dirty New Jersey doesn't change that.
RE: Pugh  
13ODB : 3/13/2018 8:17 am : link
In comment 13861063 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
Time to pony up for Pugh?


No thanks he can take his 10 game service somewhere else
LOL...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 8:17 am : link
what the fuck does this mean??

Quote:
Can this board stop being so hyper sensitive about Eli? The guy has nothing left. How many lawn darts, how many high and outside passes, how many times do we have to see him hurl himself on the ground and the slightest indication of pressure or fumble needlessly? Its okay to call a spade a spade. He's a bottom tier QB these days. It happens. Guys get old.


Hyper sensitive?? A guy who literally posts about nothing but eli being pure shit chimes in a thread about Norwell with his bullshit.

An OL isn't going to sign here because Eli is the QB? Are you fucking kidding?
Not in favor of it but the quickest and most efficient way  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2018 8:18 am : link
to fix the Oline is to punt on the QB decision this year and sell that #2 pick for a cluster of choices between this year and next.

Then in 2 years u find your next Barkley and Darnold...
There are still some OL out there to be had  
nyjuggernaut2 : 3/13/2018 8:18 am : link
Ryan Jensen is one that comes to mind. Read a few articles on him, plays with a nasty edge and really came on this year and anchored the Ravens OL. One article even mentioned him being a fan favorite down there.

There are also a few veteran OL available that would be an upgrade from what we have, and not cost nearly as much as Norwell. Guys like Josh Sitton, Josh Kline, Senio Kelemete, etc.
good point by Emil re "can't draft a G #2, but okay to throw  
Victor in CT : 3/13/2018 8:19 am : link
baziliions at a G in FA.

No thanks on Pugh. As Rotten Apple said, he's part of the problem.
RE: The reality is  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 8:20 am : link
In comment 13861142 UberAlias said:
Quote:
The cap situation volume of draft picks and roster deficiencies this was ALWAYS going to be a rebuild over a few years. The notion of 'win now' was not at all realistic and astonishing how many fans we've seen flag-waiving the idea.


They did just trade two picks and take on salary for an expensive linebacker many feel is overpaid. It's sort of a conflict of philosophies.
RE: RE: The reality is  
UberAlias : 3/13/2018 8:20 am : link
In comment 13861152 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 13861142 UberAlias said:


Quote:


The cap situation volume of draft picks and roster deficiencies this was ALWAYS going to be a rebuild over a few years. The notion of 'win now' was not at all realistic and astonishing how many fans we've seen flag-waiving the idea.



Not saying I agree that we should be in "win now" mode, but it is a realistic notion and it happens all the time. Just because the highest paid guard in the league has slipped through Gettlemans fingers, choosing to play for a playoff team in sunny Jacksonville FL over a shitshow cold-weather team in dirty New Jersey doesn't change that.
Yes, it can happen. But when you look at the number of deficiencies this team has and lack of resources to turn around a quick fix, how would anyone rationally EXPECT it? Maybe they will hit on a lot of late picks and the turnaround will happen quicker, but having that as the expectation is not at all realistic. Just because something can happen doesn't mean it will. Its like building your plan around hope on a long shot -just not very sensible.
We need to sign Pugh  
VinegarPeppers : 3/13/2018 8:26 am : link
...for our IR program.

Heíll be there by week 8 or in and out all season.

Giants are getting worse so far in FA.
Sy'56  
Andy in Boston : 3/13/2018 8:27 am : link
mentioned Quinton Spain G, from Tennesssee.

He's going to be tendered, but he might be a target now.
RE: LOL...  
Pep22 : 3/13/2018 8:27 am : link
In comment 13861155 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
what the fuck does this mean??



Quote:


Can this board stop being so hyper sensitive about Eli? The guy has nothing left. How many lawn darts, how many high and outside passes, how many times do we have to see him hurl himself on the ground and the slightest indication of pressure or fumble needlessly? Its okay to call a spade a spade. He's a bottom tier QB these days. It happens. Guys get old.



Hyper sensitive?? A guy who literally posts about nothing but eli being pure shit chimes in a thread about Norwell with his bullshit.

An OL isn't going to sign here because Eli is the QB? Are you fucking kidding?


I do not think Norwell signing elsewhere is Eli's fault (more to do with $, tax implications and the opportunity to win). But I do think this board is not honest with themselves in terms of what they see with our QB.
Uber  
JonC : 3/13/2018 8:28 am : link
On target. Given the decision to keep Eli and the fact there's not a ton of turnover figuring to take place in terms of UFA due to lack of available talent, there's a potential conflict of goals and reality.

Look at how it polarizes fans who want to draft a QB and get moving forward, and how many want to trade down to pick Nelson and have multiple picks to spend on the OL in the second round of the draft.

In the end, the fact we're only one of 32 teams and there's not a ton of resources available for change means it could be short UFA season without a ton of help arriving until the draft.
Good luck with that  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2018 8:28 am : link
Pep...
RE: RE: RE: The reality is  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 8:29 am : link
In comment 13861161 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 13861152 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 13861142 UberAlias said:


Quote:


The cap situation volume of draft picks and roster deficiencies this was ALWAYS going to be a rebuild over a few years. The notion of 'win now' was not at all realistic and astonishing how many fans we've seen flag-waiving the idea.



Not saying I agree that we should be in "win now" mode, but it is a realistic notion and it happens all the time. Just because the highest paid guard in the league has slipped through Gettlemans fingers, choosing to play for a playoff team in sunny Jacksonville FL over a shitshow cold-weather team in dirty New Jersey doesn't change that.

Yes, it can happen. But when you look at the number of deficiencies this team has and lack of resources to turn around a quick fix, how would anyone rationally EXPECT it? Maybe they will hit on a lot of late picks and the turnaround will happen quicker, but having that as the expectation is not at all realistic. Just because something can happen doesn't mean it will. Its like building your plan around hope on a long shot -just not very sensible.


A quick fix doesn't mean you fill every single hole and weakness in one season. It means you fill enough holes to make your team competitive and playoff-ready. The Giants can certainly do that *if* they choose to go that route. And you do that with due diligence. The pieces are always out there. It just takes a front office that is capable of putting them together. Reese always talked about how they "look at everyone" but I think he was full of shit. If they did look at everyone, they didn't look very hard. Its probably a more realistic scenario now than it would have been had Norwell signed here, financially speaking at least.
RE: Uber  
madeinstars : 3/13/2018 8:30 am : link
In comment 13861171 JonC said:
Quote:
On target. Given the decision to keep Eli and the fact there's not a ton of turnover figuring to take place in terms of UFA due to lack of available talent, there's a potential conflict of goals and reality.

Look at how it polarizes fans who want to draft a QB and get moving forward, and how many want to trade down to pick Nelson and have multiple picks to spend on the OL in the second round of the draft.

In the end, the fact we're only one of 32 teams and there's not a ton of resources available for change means it could be short UFA season without a ton of help arriving until the draft.


Great post. Some people fail to realize the Giants are just one of 32 teams trying to get better in UFA. A team ith bottom half cap space at that.
Spend all the resources on defense now  
The_Boss : 3/13/2018 8:32 am : link
Try to win games 10-7 every week!
We dug ourselves into this POS  
rebel yell : 3/13/2018 8:32 am : link
OL hole and now we'll need to dig out. It's not going to be a one year rebuild. Blowing our wad on one guy isn't the answer.
RE: Not in favor of it but the quickest and most efficient way  
yankeeslover : 3/13/2018 8:33 am : link
In comment 13861156 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
to fix the Oline is to punt on the QB decision this year and sell that #2 pick for a cluster of choices between this year and next.

Then in 2 years u find your next Barkley and Darnold...


I see your point, but problem with this is that teams spend decades looking for the franchise qb. They don't fall in laps like they did this year for us. Not that any of the qbs this year is a franchise one but the chance is there.
People need to stop saying the Guard position isn't that important  
PatersonPlank : 3/13/2018 8:34 am : link
There are 5 spots on the OL, and G is 2 of them. Its important. This contract and the high drafting of Nelson shows that. Its important for the running game, its important to keep the interior line out of the QB's face (in fact it may be more important that T for this), and look how many times the DL stunted and our G's missed picking up the DE?
Josh Kline and Joe Berger  
jeff57 : 3/13/2018 8:34 am : link
are two guards they could add as stopgaps, but upgrades.
stopgaps are more likely  
JonC : 3/13/2018 8:36 am : link
they're almost always out there and sometimes it's the best you can do.
Look At How The Vikings Fix Their OL in 2017  
DeepBlueJint : 3/13/2018 8:38 am : link
How did the Vikings fix their offensive line so quickly?

The Vikings had two centers in 2016 season Ė Joe Berger and Nick Easton Ė and moved both of them to guards. They drafted center Pat Elflein in the third round. They used free agency to bring in bookend tackles Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers.

Of all the questions the Vikings had on offense, while it didnít get much in the way of attention, there was no bigger cause for internal concern as to how the incredibly new-look O-line would hold up.

The Vikings have had their share of injuries as well in 2017. Reiff has missed time. Mike Remmers has missed time. Easton has missed three games.

So if the Vikings could do this all in one season, why can't the Giants?
RE: Spend all the resources on defense now  
nygiants16 : 3/13/2018 8:39 am : link
In comment 13861180 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Try to win games 10-7 every week!


I was going to say this..

Online is going to take awhile to rebuild anyway..

Go sign Malcolm butler, Orlando scandrick and Nigel bradham...
RE: People need to stop saying the Guard position isn't that important  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2018 8:39 am : link
In comment 13861187 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
There are 5 spots on the OL, and G is 2 of them. Its important. This contract and the high drafting of Nelson shows that. Its important for the running game, its important to keep the interior line out of the QB's face (in fact it may be more important that T for this), and look how many times the DL stunted and our G's missed picking up the DE?


Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others. I'd rather have solid Guard play at less than half that cost and spend big on premium players at premium positions.

I'm not upset we didn't get Norwell. Time to move on and get creative, which I trust DG will be able to do a hell of a lot better than Reese was.
FWIW  
Toth029 : 3/13/2018 8:40 am : link
Vikings spent decent money on Remmers and Reiff.
Yankee  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2018 8:42 am : link
No debate from me which is why I say keep the pick, go QB and get rid of Eli.

But you need some success stories from the UDFA market on that line de certain. Even small ones...
UConn..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 8:42 am : link
I believe this too:

Quote:
I'm not upset we didn't get Norwell. Time to move on and get creative, which I trust DG will be able to do a hell of a lot better than Reese was.


The difference in my mind between DG and Reese is that DG has consistently found good OL talent, and I trust that he'll be able to.
Kind of sucks that we suck but we don't suck enough  
Bill L : 3/13/2018 8:42 am : link
We miss out on the best FA available (for our needs), the next best FA's available are our own guys who we don't want. We likely won't get the best non-OL FA's available because we have to use our money on journeymen OL guys. We are going to miss out on the very best player possible in this or several drafts. Even eschewing him, because of the year we suck we will miss out on superior QB's. If we took the next best draftee, it would be an over-draft because he's a guard.

Is it just poor luck, poor timing, or the hell of mediocrity?
We're going to find out how resourceful and agile DG and staff are  
JonC : 3/13/2018 8:44 am : link
This is an area where JR et al were demonstrably not good enough.
RE: RE: People need to stop saying the Guard position isn't that important  
superspynyg : 3/13/2018 8:46 am : link
In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13861187 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


There are 5 spots on the OL, and G is 2 of them. Its important. This contract and the high drafting of Nelson shows that. Its important for the running game, its important to keep the interior line out of the QB's face (in fact it may be more important that T for this), and look how many times the DL stunted and our G's missed picking up the DE?



Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others. I'd rather have solid Guard play at less than half that cost and spend big on premium players at premium positions.

I'm not upset we didn't get Norwell. Time to move on and get creative, which I trust DG will be able to do a hell of a lot better than Reese was.


I am upset. Fixing the oline with quality probowl players is what this team needed for 1)an aged qb trying to make a last run and 2)a rookie qb who needs a solid oline to gain confidence and develop quickly.

Taking Nelson at 2 is a desperation move. I like Nelson but not at 2.

Right now it looks like more of the same. I hope the giants don't try to put a band aid on a gaping hole.
RE: Stapleton wrote that Norwell was consuming the NYG  
mphbullet36 : 3/13/2018 8:46 am : link
In comment 13861105 The_Boss said:
Quote:
FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. Iím sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems theyíre kindda fucked.


If gettleman can't multitask and have backup plans it will be a short stint as the GM of this team. I hope to god this isn't true...but seeing it was stapeton who said Norwell was down to 3 teams and he signed with non of those 3 teams...I will believe we do have other FA strategies.
Time to get into the....  
bw in dc : 3/13/2018 8:46 am : link
Fleming Sweepstakes.

Anybody have thoughts on Zach Fulton?
The offensive line will not be fixed overnight  
nygiants16 : 3/13/2018 8:46 am : link
I am disappointed but now you can spread that money out...

Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line
RE: We're going to find out how resourceful and agile DG and staff are  
Bill L : 3/13/2018 8:47 am : link
In comment 13861217 JonC said:
Quote:
This is an area where JR et al were demonstrably not good enough.
There is an assumption though, that there are hidden gems. Are there always hidden gems? It's possible, maybe even probable, that no matter how smart and resourceful you are, you're plowing a barren field.
RE: RE: RE: People need to stop saying the Guard position isn't that important  
Bill L : 3/13/2018 8:48 am : link
In comment 13861218 superspynyg said:
Quote:
In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 13861187 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


There are 5 spots on the OL, and G is 2 of them. Its important. This contract and the high drafting of Nelson shows that. Its important for the running game, its important to keep the interior line out of the QB's face (in fact it may be more important that T for this), and look how many times the DL stunted and our G's missed picking up the DE?



Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others. I'd rather have solid Guard play at less than half that cost and spend big on premium players at premium positions.

I'm not upset we didn't get Norwell. Time to move on and get creative, which I trust DG will be able to do a hell of a lot better than Reese was.



I am upset. Fixing the oline with quality probowl players is what this team needed for 1)an aged qb trying to make a last run and 2)a rookie qb who needs a solid oline to gain confidence and develop quickly.

Taking Nelson at 2 is a desperation move. I like Nelson but not at 2.

Right now it looks like more of the same. I hope the giants don't try to put a band aid on a gaping hole.
There's a life lesson here about not getting your hopes up. They invariably are dashed.
RE: The offensive line will not be fixed overnight  
superspynyg : 3/13/2018 8:48 am : link
In comment 13861222 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
I am disappointed but now you can spread that money out...

Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line


It would have gone a lot quicker if we added a pro bowl LG. Now we have to draft oline and HOPE they develop into good players.
Recluse  
UberAlias : 3/13/2018 8:49 am : link
Of course it doesn't mean fixing everything. I never said that. What I am talking about is the teams strategy for returning itself to prominence. Attacking that with the mindset that the goal is to "win-now" rather than building progressively with an eye on the future would be foolish. There have fixed limited resources in terms of cap space, draft picks, and leveragable roster personnel. Some things will get done, but solutions for many will be longer term.
I guess solder is still out there  
idiotsavant : 3/13/2018 8:49 am : link
. could use a tackle and the draft seems more guard rich than tackle rich.
RE: RE: We're going to find out how resourceful and agile DG and staff are  
JonC : 3/13/2018 8:50 am : link
In comment 13861223 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13861217 JonC said:


Quote:


This is an area where JR et al were demonstrably not good enough.

There is an assumption though, that there are hidden gems. Are there always hidden gems? It's possible, maybe even probable, that no matter how smart and resourceful you are, you're plowing a barren field.


They might not even be hidden gems, they might be crusty veteran stopgaps who have a good run left in them (eg, Lomas and Parker in 2000) to get through 2018.

Not ideal, but perhaps a better option than another season of Jerry, Flowers possibly playing not at his best spot, a midget C who's probably best suited to backup, etc.

Let's see if any other UFAs get a look.
1.33 million dollars a year X 5  
Dr. D : 3/13/2018 8:51 am : link
= 6.65 million over course of contract

That's the approx difference in taxes between FL and NJ.

That's based on 9% NJ state income tax for income over 500K plus extra 1 % property tax.

Not only does FL have no income tax, cost of homes and living is much more reasonable.

In Jax beach or Ponte Vedra, he can get a beautiful mansion on the beach (within about 20 min of the stadium) and still be set for life if he never gets another contract.

Not to mention the weather.

I don't think this has anything to do with the QB.
The other thing of note, I think,  
Bill L : 3/13/2018 8:51 am : link
is that we always come up with excuses as why it's not just money. There's a per-exisitng relationship with the GM or coach or whoever, he used to live down the street from the stadium, he's always been a Yankee fan and has always wanted to play for the Yankees (I hear this a lot a couple years before a guy hits FA), he wants to go to a winning franchise, he wants to be in a big market with commercial opportunities...

The reality is, it's always money. Not only that, it's *only* money.
RE: RE: The offensive line will not be fixed overnight  
nygiants16 : 3/13/2018 8:53 am : link
In comment 13861228 superspynyg said:
Quote:
In comment 13861222 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


I am disappointed but now you can spread that money out...

Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line



It would have gone a lot quicker if we added a pro bowl LG. Now we have to draft oline and HOPE they develop into good players.


Absolutely, getting norwell would of been a great get, but using all that money on one position would of also hampered them..

Fat ass Art  
Joey in VA : 3/13/2018 8:55 am : link
Wrong again.
Glad  
AcidTest : 3/13/2018 8:56 am : link
he got paid, but I didn't want him at that price. Next. I also don't want Pugh at the price he's going to command.

As others have said, DG has a good record of finding OL talent.

And no, this doesn't impact what we do in the draft.
RE: RE: The offensive line will not be fixed overnight  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2018 8:56 am : link
In comment 13861228 superspynyg said:
Quote:
In comment 13861222 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


I am disappointed but now you can spread that money out...

Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line



It would have gone a lot quicker if we added a pro bowl LG. Now we have to draft oline and HOPE they develop into good players.


Short-sighted. Its like your looking for the lottery ticket to winning the superbowl on the first day of free agency...
Jacksonville  
Breeze_94 : 3/13/2018 8:57 am : link
Do they play by the same rules down there? I feel like they have unlimited cap space.

Every year they take on a huge FA contract. Campbell and Buoye last year, plus they added Marcell Dareus and his huge contract in a trade, and they re-signed Bortles and Telvin Smith.
...  
christian : 3/13/2018 9:00 am : link
Every day it's more and more curious to me why the Giants feel like they can improve quickly enough to compete with Manning as QB.
Short memories  
Painless62 : 3/13/2018 9:01 am : link
First of all, when DG brought in Seubert and Oíhara, were they big names? No. Also, with the crap coaching, a horrible OL, no running game to speak of, we actually had the lead for 3 games in a row in the 4 th quarter at the beginning of the year. Also, some young signings who are not big names along with a stop gop or 2 can produce a functioning offensive line. Combined with far superior coaching we can be competitive very quickly. We should focus on D as well. We have an outstanding coordinator. Give him some pieces and our D can be good. I have been negative for years as I thought the front office and coaching have stunk. DG is smart and a great evaluator of talent . We have also significantly upgraded our coaching. Also, the nfl is more college like than ever. Very few players are with a team 4 years or more. Good teams reinvent themselves all the time . We can do the same. Stop with rebuilding BS. Well run teams are constantly rebuilding while they win.
RE: Tom Coughlin just gave the Giants the finger.  
Thegratefulhead : 3/13/2018 9:02 am : link
In comment 13861006 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
.
I would if I were TC.
RE: RE: People need to stop saying the Guard position isn't that important  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 9:03 am : link
In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said:
Quote:


Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others.


The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality.
I imagine  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 9:03 am : link
that if he went to Jacksonville for 13M, the Giants offered just as much. It would have had to have been really crazy for him to go to us. I'm alright with it.
RE: I imagine  
Breeze_94 : 3/13/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 13861265 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
that if he went to Jacksonville for 13M, the Giants offered just as much. It would have had to have been really crazy for him to go to us. I'm alright with it.


I'm not one to complain but the fact that Florida doesn't have an income tax really makes free-agency an uneven playing field
RE: ...  
BillKo : 3/13/2018 9:09 am : link
In comment 13861256 christian said:
Quote:
Every day it's more and more curious to me why the Giants feel like they can improve quickly enough to compete with Manning as QB.


Free agency will have a big hand in how they draft..........
Pat Traina suggests  
aimrocky : 3/13/2018 9:09 am : link
Giants will turn their attention to Steeler OL Chris Hubbard. He's versatile and good.
Yup  
big canoe jeff : 3/13/2018 9:10 am : link
U nailed it last nite DG needs to keep his mouth shut till the player is signed
RE: RE: RE: People need to stop saying the Guard position isn't that important  
Reb8thVA : 3/13/2018 9:10 am : link
In comment 13861264 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said:


Quote:




Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others.



The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality.


Totally agree. You can't expect quality if you keep shopping at Goodwill
I'm just wondering out loud here  
Chris684 : 3/13/2018 9:10 am : link
but maybe this means it's not crazy to draft Nelson at 2?

I don't know, but interior OL that hit the open market do not come cheap.
It would have been crazy to offer more than what he got  
Ira : 3/13/2018 9:11 am : link
from the Jaguars. There comes a point when you have to let go and move on.
I'd expect them to reach out to Hubbard  
JonC : 3/13/2018 9:12 am : link
and similar vets.
Just asked a Steeler fan about Hubbard  
aimrocky : 3/13/2018 9:12 am : link
he started 6 games for Marcus Gilbert and outplayed him
RE: Why donít we  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/13/2018 9:14 am : link
In comment 13861145 Josiah31 said:
Quote:
Just sign Mckinnion, so we can all get off the Barkley train, and either trade our pick down a few spots and select Nelson, or just draft him at 2. Kill two birds with one stone.

That actually sounds more like using two stones to kill one bird.
Flemming, Hubbard, Sitton, Berger, the guy Sy mentioned yesterday  
Eric on Li : 3/13/2018 9:14 am : link
I expect Gettleman will move on and add at least a couple vets. Plus an early round pick. They will upgrade the OL.
"I'm disappointed but that's too much money"  
AcesUp : 3/13/2018 9:14 am : link
What exactly were some of you hoping for? He's an All Pro free agent, last year's top guard got 12.5/yr and every outlet on the planet estimated 13-14/yr.

This kinda sucks, swing and a miss here. I saw Norwell as the only safe FA building block. Not much left out there.
Solder is a super risky play. Bridge is probably burned with Pugh and he's even riskier. DG and his staff should be looking at stop gaps and the under the radar guys at this point.
RE: RE: RE: People need to stop saying the Guard position isn't that important  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2018 9:15 am : link
In comment 13861264 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said:


Quote:




Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others.



The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality.


And that doesn't mean you should pay it. I really don't care what the market says to be honest. Let other teams blow their loads and over pay at positions you don't deem worthy. If we can get a couple serviceable Guards you are going to see a huge difference anyway, not to mention the additional cap space to spend elsewhere.

Cousins is going to get $30 million a year because the market dictates it. I think we all know how that one will go down.
RE: Yup  
nygiants16 : 3/13/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 13861277 big canoe jeff said:
Quote:
U nailed it last nite DG needs to keep his mouth shut till the player is signed


I must have missed the quotes of gentleman saying they were signing norwell?
RE: RE: Yup  
Victor in CT : 3/13/2018 9:19 am : link
In comment 13861298 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13861277 big canoe jeff said:


Quote:


U nailed it last nite DG needs to keep his mouth shut till the player is signed



I must have missed the quotes of gentleman saying they were signing norwell?


Yeah I missed those too. Anybody have a link? ;-)
The biggest need is at Tackle...  
Chris684 : 3/13/2018 9:20 am : link
That's where the FA focus should be. We need to find a starter.

Interior will most likely be plugged via the draft with one or 2 starters taken in the first few rounds.
RE: RE: RE: RE: People need to stop saying the Guard position isn't that important  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 9:21 am : link
In comment 13861296 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13861264 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said:


Quote:




Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others.



The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality.



And that doesn't mean you should pay it. I really don't care what the market says to be honest. Let other teams blow their loads and over pay at positions you don't deem worthy. If we can get a couple serviceable Guards you are going to see a huge difference anyway, not to mention the additional cap space to spend elsewhere.

Cousins is going to get $30 million a year because the market dictates it. I think we all know how that one will go down.


Contracts around the league are all generally derivative of each other. The first guy at a position to sign sets the dimensions of the contract of the next guy to sign. You don't have to care what the rest of the league is doing, but it's going to affect you whether you like it or not. Whether you sign free agents or try to keep your own players.


Cousins is a different animal. A legitimate top guard wants fair money for his ability level based on previous contracts. Kirk Cousins wants top QB money for midlevel talent.
You'll find somebody...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 9:21 am : link
with a contrarian take no matter what the subject is.

Beat writers have gotten almost any move the Giants have made or didn't make wrong, yet now that Norwell signs elsewhere it is due to loose lips?

Can't make this shit up.
RE: Recluse  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 9:21 am : link
In comment 13861229 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Of course it doesn't mean fixing everything. I never said that. What I am talking about is the teams strategy for returning itself to prominence. Attacking that with the mindset that the goal is to "win-now" rather than building progressively with an eye on the future would be foolish. There have fixed limited resources in terms of cap space, draft picks, and leveragable roster personnel. Some things will get done, but solutions for many will be longer term.


Maybe I've not had enough coffee, but your point is confusing to me. You said this, which is what I keyed on:

Quote:
Yes, it can happen. But when you look at the number of deficiencies this team has and lack of resources to turn around a quick fix, how would anyone rationally EXPECT it? Maybe they will hit on a lot of late picks and the turnaround will happen quicker, but having that as the expectation is not at all realistic


I don't think anyone has expected these deficiencies to be fixed with long term solutions in one offseason...and I didn't see the attempt to sign Norwell as a part of a larger plan to go after the best players to fix holes. To me it was a statement signing, that the offensive line is going to be a priority going forward.

You mentioned that it was astonishing to to see so many fans expect everything to be fixed immediately. Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen that notion on here much. And I don't agree thats possible. You also mentioned "win now" mode. I don't know if its a mode, but I definitely think its possible and realistic for the team to win again next season and carry that forward if they are smart about what they do.
RE: You'll find somebody...  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2018 9:26 am : link
In comment 13861308 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
with a contrarian take no matter what the subject is.

Beat writers have gotten almost any move the Giants have made or didn't make wrong, yet now that Norwell signs elsewhere it is due to loose lips?

Can't make this shit up.


Didn't you know that no one wanted Norwell until they heard the Giants were interested?
TTH  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2018 9:27 am : link
we won't agree, that's fine. But missing out on the big ticket FA Guard doesn't mean anything until we see how the rest shakes out. There's many ways to improve and we will have to wait and see.
eli to get another 5 mill direct deposit this week  
sundayatone : 3/13/2018 9:28 am : link
now thats what an overpaid player looks like.
RE: I'd expect them to reach out to Hubbard  
AcidTest : 3/13/2018 9:30 am : link
In comment 13861283 JonC said:
Quote:
and similar vets.


Agreed.
RE: eli to get another 5 mill direct deposit this week  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 9:32 am : link
In comment 13861322 sundayatone said:
Quote:
now thats what an overpaid player looks like.


Yo mad
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 9:32 am : link
it had been at least 30 minutes since he chimed in with an Eli insult.

Alarm must've gone off!!

Quote:
eli to get another 5 mill direct deposit this week
sundayatone : 9:28 am : link : reply
now thats what an overpaid player looks like.
RE: No income tax  
Jay in Toronto : 3/13/2018 9:33 am : link
In comment 13860982 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
in Florida...


What happened in the end on the latest tax legislation that eliminated deducting state taxes?
Recluse  
UberAlias : 3/13/2018 9:33 am : link
Let me clarify. What I am objecting to is the "win-now" mentality we've been seeing a lot of around here. There is a contingent pushing the idea that the team is or should be pushing their chips onto the table in effort to win one more with Eli. I'm not saying that should not be a goal, because your goal should be to win a superbowl every year and anything can happen. But this notion should absolutely not be shaping the teams approach to the draft and FA, because the reality is the roster is a long ways away and they are not resource wealthy.
I have no knowledge in terms of evaluation of OL  
ChaChing : 3/13/2018 9:35 am : link
But from far I'd rather not pay the G that much more given there seems solid but not bank-breaking alternatives. Sy mentions Spain from TN and Hubbard of course. Or Nelson in the draft depending how that shakes out. That's 3 just off the top too

My question is, does AN justify 13.3 in production / play vs the comparable production & more modest $ those others might fetch? Is he really the best G (not just on the FA market)? It was an option but I would not have been so enamored with it to consider this an 'L' for not landing him. There are many ways to skin a cat, and looking at OL as a unit this doesn't even seem like it's necessarily the best one given its multiple needs
shame...  
AnnapolisMike : 3/13/2018 9:35 am : link
lots of money...
If we are gonna go bargain bin diving  
GoDeep13 : 3/13/2018 9:35 am : link
Chris Hubbard OT
Jaíwaun James OT
Senio Kelemete OT/OG
Ryan Jensen C
RE: Recluse  
Victor in CT : 3/13/2018 9:35 am : link
In comment 13861333 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Let me clarify. What I am objecting to is the "win-now" mentality we've been seeing a lot of around here. There is a contingent pushing the idea that the team is or should be pushing their chips onto the table in effort to win one more with Eli. I'm not saying that should not be a goal, because your goal should be to win a superbowl every year and anything can happen. But this notion should absolutely not be shaping the teams approach to the draft and FA, because the reality is the roster is a long ways away and they are not resource wealthy.


EXACTLY! That mentality is what got them into this mess to begin with.
RE: Recluse  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 9:38 am : link
In comment 13861333 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Let me clarify. What I am objecting to is the "win-now" mentality we've been seeing a lot of around here. There is a contingent pushing the idea that the team is or should be pushing their chips onto the table in effort to win one more with Eli. I'm not saying that should not be a goal, because your goal should be to win a superbowl every year and anything can happen. But this notion should absolutely not be shaping the teams approach to the draft and FA, because the reality is the roster is a long ways away and they are not resource wealthy.


Fair enough. I haven't seen anyone really push that notion with regards to the daft and FA but I'm sure I miss plenty.
The win now mentality does come in part from what the team itself  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 9:40 am : link
is saying. And I get that they can't be 100% truthful and they are trying to protect ticket sales.

But when the first thing the new GM says is "We've got to fix the offensive line" and bangs the drum for "hogmollies", and the next thing they say is (the 37 year old fan favorite QB) "has years left", of course people are going to cry win now.
the roster isn't a long ways away though  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2018 9:41 am : link
I know people think that, but we see every year how teams change fortunes on a dime. You can think the Giants are disqualified from that all you want but the team has plenty of talent, and a few good moves make this a playoff team.
RE: Flemming, Hubbard, Sitton, Berger, the guy Sy mentioned yesterday  
Rjanyg : 3/13/2018 9:42 am : link
In comment 13861292 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I expect Gettleman will move on and add at least a couple vets. Plus an early round pick. They will upgrade the OL.


Great list right here. I like Fleming a lot. Him and Sitton would be solid additions.
RE: maybe we go the mobile QB route now  
djm : 3/13/2018 9:42 am : link
In comment 13861020 brunswick said:
Quote:
...


Clearly. Clearly the Giants will adopt and implement a different offensive strategy and draft plan now that they didn't sign an offensive guard in FA.

Do you ever think?
Norwell would've been  
Metnut : 3/13/2018 9:43 am : link
a certain upgrade but that's too much to pay for a guard and would leave us with little cap room to address other needs, including the rest of the OL.

Let's sign the Pitt OL and hope that our GM is a good enough scout to find some other value on the line and elsewhere.
RE: the roster isn't a long ways away though  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 9:47 am : link
In comment 13861352 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I know people think that, but we see every year how teams change fortunes on a dime. You can think the Giants are disqualified from that all you want but the team has plenty of talent, and a few good moves make this a playoff team.


I feel like its a matter of symantics. I'm assuming that most everyone is basically saying the same thing in different ways. It seems most are in agreement that this team can make the playoffs next year with some smart moves and also begin funneling in young talent through the draft to keep them competitive.

Or maybe I should just go drink some more coffee.
RE: Maybe this will give Eli pause about...  
djm : 3/13/2018 9:47 am : link
In comment 13861067 M.S. said:
Quote:

...taking the field in 2018.


Can you take pause before posting?
you can do both  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2018 9:48 am : link
and why wouldn't you? What team isn't trying to add in youth to their organization?
Don't know much  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 9:50 am : link
about Hubbard other than he's 26. I'll just ask a straight forward question. Is he better than say....Jerry?
no one even knows for sure  
djm : 3/13/2018 9:53 am : link
if Norwell was this big bad end all be all prime target of the Giants. Some reporter said so, then another reporter piled on and parroted the same bullshit...then another and another and another.

And now we are left at the alter and half of BBI is losing their shit.

Same shit...different FA period.
RE: no one even knows for sure  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 9:55 am : link
In comment 13861375 djm said:
Quote:
if Norwell was this big bad end all be all prime target of the Giants. Some reporter said so, then another reporter piled on and parroted the same bullshit...then another and another and another.

And now we are left at the alter and half of BBI is losing their shit.

Same shit...different FA period.

It's fairly obvious that the Giants offered Norwell a big contract. He just didn't want to come here. No one should be crying over not giving 13M to a guard, no matter how good he is.
RE: Don't know much  
FStubbs : 3/13/2018 10:02 am : link
In comment 13861368 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
about Hubbard other than he's 26. I'll just ask a straight forward question. Is he better than say....Jerry?


Chris Snee sitting at home right now is better than Jerry.
We  
Jon in NYC : 3/13/2018 10:06 am : link
could probably add Kline, Hubbard and another piece for the same money that Norwell got. Remember, we have to fill at least 3 pieces on the line.
March 18th, a day that will live in infamy!  
Doomster : 3/13/2018 10:09 am : link
Or not!

That is the day the Giants guarantee Eli 5M....

Let's face it, we saw how Eli played behind flawed OL's in 2011 and 2017.....the difference in quarterback play, was huge.....Eli is no longer that same guy in 2011....

And if you put him behind a bad OL, he will play likewise....

It's amazing how everyone talks about one quarter, one quarter of play in the first Eagles game, to back up their argument that Eli is still a top qb....they forgot what he did in the first three quarters(zero points),,,,,,three td drives in the fourth.....one sustained drive, a short field drive after a turnover, and a short pass to Shepard that miraculously went for 77 yards and a TD......that is all anyone can point to for the highlight of Eli's season....one quarter.....

There were too many plays to be made last season, that Eli did not make.....If Eli is still on this club after March 18th, that is 10M we have flushed down the tubes this year, that could have been used in FAcy.....

With a Healthy OBj back, a more seasoned EE, and if somehow SS can take that next step, we will score points with Eli, even with a bad OL.....but it also means that this offense will continue to shoot itself in the foot at critical times....Eli will not be able to overcome that...

If this team is not a contender this year with Eli, it's time to face reality, and start the process of a complete rebuild.....yes, you put a crap product on the field this year, and continue the rebuild in the draft next year....that 10M you get from Eli? If there is no one worth spending it on, you roll it over to the next season....

We have been sucking for 6 seasons, with a mirage season thrown in....DG is not a magician.....he better have a plan....Reese didn't.....he overvalued his players, especially in the draft....

I feel Eli can still put up good numbers in the right situation.....but not behind an OL that will be going through growing pains, that can't convert a third and short, that consistently screws up with a penalty, that can't run a screen play to save it's life, and that will give Eli happy feet.....many point to the rebuild of the OL in Minny.....but that is the exception, not the norm....

The only thing that is going to turn this team around is about 3 good seasons of drafting....finding guys that are building blocks for a team.....and cutting guys that do not perform, like Jerry, Marshall, Harris, JPP(not this year but next, too costly), etc., and even Eli has to be considered....
RE: Stapleton wrote that Norwell was consuming the NYG  
Peppers : 3/13/2018 10:09 am : link
In comment 13861105 The_Boss said:
Quote:
FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. Iím sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems theyíre kindda fucked.


Stapleton is 100% wrong with that statement.
RE: ...  
NYG07 : 3/13/2018 10:10 am : link
In comment 13861256 christian said:
Quote:
Every day it's more and more curious to me why the Giants feel like they can improve quickly enough to compete with Manning as QB.


+1. Not to mention the two best players on the team are on the final year of their rookie contracts and are looking to get paid big time. Just tear it down and go for the full rebuild.
Not a fan of  
WillVAB : 3/13/2018 10:10 am : link
Blowing all the cap dollars on stopgaps to fill holes.

Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.
Stapleton  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 10:11 am : link
but all his eggs into the Norwell basket and it didn't happen. The fact that he went overboard with it was a little odd, he's usually not as "drum-banging" for lack of a better word
That kind of money  
Chef : 3/13/2018 10:13 am : link
going to a winning team with upside, and a state with no income tax? No brainer...
Kline  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 10:13 am : link
would be a great add, Hubbard would be solid. I'm all for value signings on the OL.


We had 3 draft picks on the OL the past 3-4 years and it hasn't really worked out. Find some guys that actually stay healthy and are solid players, and then find a gem in the draft. The OL will get better.
Not Sure Why Eli  
WillVAB : 3/13/2018 10:14 am : link
Keeps getting brought up on this thread.

Norwell signed with Jacksonville because theyíre a young, Uber-talented team coming off an AFCC appearance. Why would he want to sign with the 3-13 Giants w equal money?
At that cost no thanks!!  
BigBlue4You09 : 3/13/2018 10:15 am : link
Good pass
RE: Not a fan of  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 10:16 am : link
In comment 13861422 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Blowing all the cap dollars on stopgaps to fill holes.

Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.


Hard to classify a 26 year old player as a stopgap. More of a building block than a quick fix.
Regroup and move on to more wholistic deals  
giantsFC : 3/13/2018 10:17 am : link
actually relieving to me knowing the giants didnít spend such a massive cap killer on an interior lineman. As much as I liked the move, it feels good knowing they can get better lineman for cheaper and also fix linebacker, DB RB and WR within the cap space and draft now.
RE: RE: Not a fan of  
WillVAB : 3/13/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13861447 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13861422 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Blowing all the cap dollars on stopgaps to fill holes.

Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.



Hard to classify a 26 year old player as a stopgap. More of a building block than a quick fix.


Iím talking about these other names being thrown around bc the Giants lost out on Norwell. I wanted Norwell. Wouldíve been worth the money.

What I donít want is for the Giants to panic and dole out bad deals to JAGs.
It always seemed weird  
GeoMan999 : 3/13/2018 10:25 am : link
That the Giants were going to get this ďsure thingĒ signing. No GM would be able to assume any ďsure thingĒ. So stay tuned to see the whole picture unfold before we reach any conclusions.

The state tax differential adds more than a million dollars a year of income for teams in Florida vs. NJ. The Giants would have to have gone to a $15 million per year offer.
RE: RE: RE: Not a fan of  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 10:28 am : link
In comment 13861461 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13861447 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13861422 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Blowing all the cap dollars on stopgaps to fill holes.

Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.



Hard to classify a 26 year old player as a stopgap. More of a building block than a quick fix.



Iím talking about these other names being thrown around bc the Giants lost out on Norwell. I wanted Norwell. Wouldíve been worth the money.

What I donít want is for the Giants to panic and dole out bad deals to JAGs.


What do you consider being smart with your money, and which players are you classifying as JAGs?
RE: RE: Not a fan of  
UberAlias : 3/13/2018 10:29 am : link
In comment 13861447 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13861422 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Blowing all the cap dollars on stopgaps to fill holes.

Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.



Hard to classify a 26 year old player as a stopgap. More of a building block than a quick fix.
You are correct. You sign a 2nd contract kid to a big multi-year deal and that is a core player, not stop gap.
If this team is going to see a turnaround over the next few seasons  
j_rud : 3/13/2018 10:30 am : link
it'll be because the FO was able to find guys like Norwell in the mid to late rounds and as UDFA's. It's not like they're one piece away. I think a lot of people are laboring under the idea that this can be a 10-12 win team next season. Sure, anything is possible, but it's highly unlikely. Buckle in gentlemen, this is not going to be a quick fix.
Quick turnarounds...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 10:40 am : link
happen yearly in the NFL. The tough part is sustaining it.

We had a historically poor offense in 2016 and made the playoffs because the defense was dominant. Last year, the D was average and we plummeted. Carolina went 15-1 with a suffocating D. The next year, Norman was gone, Kuechly and Davis got hurt and they missed the playoffs.

Each year there is at least 50% turnover in the playoff teams. So the Bills and Titans this year could be any of a handful of teams in the AFC. The Panthers and Vikings might be two other teams from the NFC.

We have holes to fix. So do other teams. But thinking the playoffs are out of the question is not realistic. Heck, it may not even be improbable.
FMiC  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 10:42 am : link
exactly. The Jaguars were literally the laughing stock of the league until they changed the culture, drafted a hell of a running back, and got better in the trenches.

People act around here like this team has zero talent, zero chance to win next year. We went 11-5 with basically having a below average offense and pretty brutal play calling.
This sucks ass  
est1986 : 3/13/2018 10:44 am : link
We have Flowers, Jerry, Jones, Halapio and Bisnowaty/Wheeler as our OL unit as of now... wtf are we doing? We canít get Norwell or Solder? Great job so far DG
What??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 10:45 am : link
Quote:
This sucks ass
est1986 : 10:44 am : link : reply
We have Flowers, Jerry, Jones, Halapio and Bisnowaty/Wheeler as our OL unit as of now... wtf are we doing? We canít get Norwell or Solder? Great job so far DG


Free agency is how many days old and we are lamenting the lack of moves?

Are you serious with that shit?
RE: This sucks ass  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 10:50 am : link
In comment 13861522 est1986 said:
Quote:
We have Flowers, Jerry, Jones, Halapio and Bisnowaty/Wheeler as our OL unit as of now... wtf are we doing? We canít get Norwell or Solder? Great job so far DG

Sure let's blame Gettleman. He offered the guy a fucking contract, a big one at that. What else can he do? Jesus.
RE: RE: At that number they can have him  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 10:50 am : link
In comment 13861052 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 13860985 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.



Good lord you are insufferable. So you are only willing to sign the top available talent if it comes at a lower than market value price?

There was no scenario in which Norwell was going to sign a cap friendly deal, he was clearly the top available FA o-lineman and these guys have been getting paid more and more each year.


I'm not willing to overpay right now at any position when the roster is as bad as it is.

Signing Norwell makes sense if you think we're close and he could be the piece that pushes the offense up a level. But we're not close. This is a 2-3 year rebuild. That doesn't mean we're going to go 3-13 again next year...a bad roster can still have a good season with injury and schedule luck - 2016 is a good example of that.

But if we're honest with ourselves this team has been shit for years now. The biggest reason for that has been an interruption in the draft pipeline. Overpaying Norwell (who's a good player) isn't solving that.
This was never  
lax counsel : 3/13/2018 10:50 am : link
Going to be a one season rebuild. Which is the he flawed thinking by most fans. We're not a guard away from competing or a running back. In order to sustain success over a the long haul, like 05-12, we need a total rebuild. I'm not that upset about not breaking the bank for a guard. This needs to be fixed through a few drafts, smart free agency, and managing the cap. It all starts drafting one of the two 21 year old qbs this year and building long term. This is no different than 2004. Hopefully the front office is just blowing smoke when they say it's a quick fix, and realize it's a multi year turnaround.
RE: Fournette and Bortles are happy,  
NikkiMac : 3/13/2018 10:51 am : link
In comment 13861051 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
and it is evident that TC has the Bank locked down. The tweet last night had no indication that Norwell was in consideration with Jax. 12 hours later - he has agreed in principle to be the highest paid guard on the First Coast. No leaks on TC's ship.


The New York media is a lot different animal than the Jacksonville media
One would think .....
Terps  
JonC : 3/13/2018 10:52 am : link
+1
RE: Terps  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 10:55 am : link
In comment 13861561 JonC said:
Quote:
+1

Any rumblings?
Nada  
JonC : 3/13/2018 10:57 am : link
zero.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Really disappointed  
NikkiMac : 3/13/2018 10:58 am : link
In comment 13861085 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13861061 GFAN52 said:


Quote:


In comment 13861041 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13861030 madeinstars said:


Quote:


In comment 13861021 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13860997 BleedBlue said:


Quote:


I think the chances of Nelson just went up big league

I'd make a push for solder now.



Not that I get a vote, but if Iím Gettleman I go hard after Solder and I trade back with Buffalo, draft McGlichney at 12, Billy price at #22, and use the extra picks I just got in the 2nd/3rd round to either move back into the late first and take the best remaining QB or RB.

The must get a QB crowd wonít like this, but I like Lauletta in the second and Iím not in love with any of the top Qbs at 2.



Some of you guys want an O-line so bad, you don't want any other players.



Donít put me in that camp. Iím not OL or bust. Also, the picks you get from a trade still allow you plenty of opportunity to get other players.

With a day to go before FA, the Giants have no starting guards, a dreadful LT, and no RT on the roster. A 37 year old QB, not a ton of cap space, an all pro SS to pay, a locker room cancer CB, and an all world but troubled WR to deal with. Gettleman is going to have to pull off a minor miracle.



As they say Rome wasn't built in day, DG is facing a multi-year rebuild, no way the OL and the rest of the weak areas on the team are going to be totally fixed this offseason and draft alone.



Very true, but weíve been told the Giants expect to be competitive in 2018. Right now they donít have a competitive OL.

The Giants problem has been the result of years of poor drafting. They are not going to be able to FA out of this mess. Which is why I continue to advocate for a trade down. Gettleman needs more resources to fix a subpar roster.


If the Giants are going nowhere than whatís the sense of signing OBJ to 100 million dollar contract might as well get something for him and might as well cut Eli.......
RE: RE: This sucks ass  
YAJ2112 : 3/13/2018 10:58 am : link
In comment 13861550 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13861522 est1986 said:


Quote:


We have Flowers, Jerry, Jones, Halapio and Bisnowaty/Wheeler as our OL unit as of now... wtf are we doing? We canít get Norwell or Solder? Great job so far DG


Sure let's blame Gettleman. He offered the guy a fucking contract, a big one at that. What else can he do? Jesus.


He should have held a fucking gun to his head and told him either his brains or his signature would be on that contract.
RE: Nada  
dep026 : 3/13/2018 10:59 am : link
In comment 13861588 JonC said:
Quote:
zero.


That aint good.

I would think they make a run at Solder. I really expected McKinnon to be here as well.
I'm fine with quiet  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 11:00 am : link
Quiet means no signings we'll regret in two years.

Strip it down and build back up again.
nightmares..  
2cents : 3/13/2018 11:01 am : link
cold sweat just came over me at the thought of John Jerry being run out there to start again next year paired next to his old buddy and now free agent Marshall Newhouse. Yikes i really am praying we find some good additiona, someone please give me some hope.
RE: RE: Nada  
Jon in NYC : 3/13/2018 11:02 am : link
In comment 13861596 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13861588 JonC said:


Quote:


zero.



That aint good.

I would think they make a run at Solder. I really expected McKinnon to be here as well.


That's actually very good. Loose lips sink ships.
RE: RE: RE: At that number they can have him  
McNally's_Nuts : 3/13/2018 11:03 am : link
In comment 13861551 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13861052 Giantology said:


Quote:


In comment 13860985 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.



Good lord you are insufferable. So you are only willing to sign the top available talent if it comes at a lower than market value price?

There was no scenario in which Norwell was going to sign a cap friendly deal, he was clearly the top available FA o-lineman and these guys have been getting paid more and more each year.



I'm not willing to overpay right now at any position when the roster is as bad as it is.

Signing Norwell makes sense if you think we're close and he could be the piece that pushes the offense up a level. But we're not close. This is a 2-3 year rebuild. That doesn't mean we're going to go 3-13 again next year...a bad roster can still have a good season with injury and schedule luck - 2016 is a good example of that.

But if we're honest with ourselves this team has been shit for years now. The biggest reason for that has been an interruption in the draft pipeline. Overpaying Norwell (who's a good player) isn't solving that.


Terps is 100 percent right. Even when we thought the drafting got better and I'd say that occurred with Justin Pugh and Hankins in 2013. There is something up with player development.

Everyone thought that the left side of the line was set for years when we drafted Flowers in 2015. Flowers-Pugh-Richburg all 3 of those guys were premium picks in the 1st and 2nd round and 2/3 out the 3 will not be on the team next year.

Pugh had a great rookie year, Richburg had an awesome 2015 and everyone thought the arrow would be pointing up for Flowers after an up and down rookie year with a high ankle sprain.

None of it happened and I don't know the solution to fix that.
RE: RE: Nada  
The_Boss : 3/13/2018 11:04 am : link
In comment 13861596 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13861588 JonC said:


Quote:


zero.



That aint good.

I would think they make a run at Solder. I really expected McKinnon to be here as well.


Donít want Solder. Heís 30 and by many accounts his play is slipping. Whatís he going to be in 2-3 years when/if this team is relevant again?
But, but, but.....Norwell was one of Gettleman's very own....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 3/13/2018 11:04 am : link
....Hog Mollies??!!
RE: This sucks ass  
BigBlue4You09 : 3/13/2018 11:05 am : link
In comment 13861522 est1986 said:
Quote:
We have Flowers, Jerry, Jones, Halapio and Bisnowaty/Wheeler as our OL unit as of now... wtf are we doing? We canít get Norwell or Solder? Great job so far DG


STFU cry baby, he did all he could that was reasonable
I don't think they'll spend big on a RB  
JonC : 3/13/2018 11:06 am : link
more likely a vet deal on a big back like Stewart, change of pace, wear down the defense.

I thought they'd reach out to Solder, we'll see.
RE: RE: RE: RE: At that number they can have him  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 11:07 am : link
In comment 13861610 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:


Pugh had a great rookie year, Richburg had an awesome 2015 and everyone thought the arrow would be pointing up for Flowers after an up and down rookie year with a high ankle sprain.

None of it happened and I don't know the solution to fix that.

Flowers and Pugh don't strike me as the type of guys that work that hard. I thought Richburg was a worker, but his career here was just weird.
For example..  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 11:08 am : link
Pugh talks a lot. But when you boil it down he never really did much except have 1 really good season and got hurt a bunch.
Wow.  
Dave in Hoboken : 3/13/2018 11:08 am : link
Time to rebuild. Enough of this 'win now' nonsense.
Signing  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 11:11 am : link
Pugh or Richburg would be like signing Prince after his rookie deal. Showed a good deal of talent, but ultimately just wasn't that much of a factor in the locker room or on the field. And it's a shame, because of the draft status.
For those  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 11:13 am : link
clamoring for the "we need Norwell at any cost" - this team now has basically 2 players from the 2012-2015 drafts that are good football players, Beckham and Collins. That is an absolute nightmare.
I considered Norwell a rebuild move  
AcesUp : 3/13/2018 11:15 am : link
He's 25, healthy and one of the better guards in the game. OL market is correcting big time, there just aren't enough capable players in the league anymore. I would not be shocked to see interior lineman getting 20m+/yr in a few years, so it's not a deal I'd see us regretting. Good signing for Jax and disappointing for us.

I don't see any other OL worth breaking the bank for. There's some speculative young OTs like Hubbard or Fleming, so they are definitely cost/structure dependent. I think the Giants will be best served rolling the dice on one of those types and looking to last contract vets as bandaids just to stop the bleeding until we can fix it the right way.
I just don't see  
PatchoguePete : 3/13/2018 11:15 am : link
how our offensive line is going to be any good next year unless we hit big in the draft. Things might get worse before they get better.
I guess this "win now" team  
Dave in Hoboken : 3/13/2018 11:16 am : link
didn't really appeal to him. LOL.
It really is dark days  
PatchoguePete : 3/13/2018 11:18 am : link
for this franchise. I don't think we as fans really comprehend just how dark it is about to get. 3-13 for one year. How about 3-13, 4-12 for a few more seasons. Reese really screwed up this team.
I believe this now changes what we do in the draft  
The 12th Man : 3/13/2018 11:19 am : link
dramatically. I definitely see us now trading back and going OL with the pick.
RE: It really is dark days  
Victor in CT : 3/13/2018 11:20 am : link
In comment 13861673 PatchoguePete said:
Quote:
for this franchise. I don't think we as fans really comprehend just how dark it is about to get. 3-13 for one year. How about 3-13, 4-12 for a few more seasons. Reese really screwed up this team.


I've been saying this for some time Pete. We're 6 years towards a lost decade already with a roster full of holes.
Dave in Hoboken  
Dragon : 3/13/2018 11:20 am : link
To late they got caught in the middle with FA only hope now is the draft but they also could blow that to. should have done like Carolina kept it quite just made the move talk is cheap.
Darnold/OL  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 11:21 am : link
or Barkley/OL are my favorite scenarios. We can't get cute just because we didn't sign a guard
Let's not fall apart on the draft front  
JonC : 3/13/2018 11:22 am : link
because we didn't sign an OG, hang on.
This shouldn't impact our draft at all  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 11:22 am : link
Given that this team needs help in every area of the field, we would do well to simply draft the best player available at every pick. Trust your scouts and pick who they tell you is best.
RE: Let's not fall apart on the draft front  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 11:23 am : link
In comment 13861691 JonC said:
Quote:
because we didn't sign an OG, hang on.

+1
Not signing  
Thegratefulhead : 3/13/2018 11:29 am : link
Norwell could be a great thing. You never know who is going to get hurt or stop giving the same effort once they get that big contract. The minor injuries they once played through, now they sit. It would have been a lot of money tied up in a guard. What we NEED is for DG to find the NEXT Norwell. That is the kind of thing that will jump start a franchise. You have to find some diamonds in rough. time will tell. Try to be patient. It's hard.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Not a fan of  
WillVAB : 3/13/2018 11:32 am : link
In comment 13861475 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 13861461 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 13861447 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13861422 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Blowing all the cap dollars on stopgaps to fill holes.

Missing out on Norwell sucks but the Giants have to be smart with their money.



Hard to classify a 26 year old player as a stopgap. More of a building block than a quick fix.



Iím talking about these other names being thrown around bc the Giants lost out on Norwell. I wanted Norwell. Wouldíve been worth the money.

What I donít want is for the Giants to panic and dole out bad deals to JAGs.



What do you consider being smart with your money, and which players are you classifying as JAGs?


Jerry, Harris, Vereen, and all the shitty LBs Reese paid for were bad FA deals. Individually their deals seem like a drop in the bucket but collectively their money adds up. Iíd rather pay for one or two quality guys in FA than a handful of check in the box guys.

If the Giants want to spend the money they have look for a difference maker at LB or Safety. Otherwise they should just roll it over and use it next year for the guys theyíll need to spend it on.
I'm kind of OK with the Giants not getting this guy.  
Tom in NY : 3/13/2018 11:38 am : link
Would love to have had an experienced, road grading OG, but with this rebuild this team is about to undertake, a $13MM/year Guard seems like a luxury they cannot afford.

Time to build the Oline through the draft, and development of young plays (ala the way Carolina did with Norwell years ago).

Good move.  
old man : 3/13/2018 11:38 am : link
Knock off Pats this time!
DG made his bones in pro personnel with NYG  
JonC : 3/13/2018 11:39 am : link
Have to believe his choices will prove better than Reese's recent track record, especially at OL.

The good aspect to stopgaps is they're often gone after the season at end, if that's the best that can be done via UFA.
In a funny kind of way...  
M.S. : 3/13/2018 11:56 am : link

...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.

Why?

Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.

And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.

But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.

Good point  
ryanmkeane : 3/13/2018 11:58 am : link
M.S.

I'm imagining what Shurmur and Shula could do developing Darnold...and it's glorious
Norwell  
johnboyw : 3/13/2018 11:58 am : link
So much for loyalty to the guy who gave him his start. And chalk up a big win for TC at the Giants expense. The bumbling continues.
RE: In a funny kind of way...  
WillVAB : 3/13/2018 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13861848 M.S. said:
Quote:

...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.

Why?

Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.

And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.

But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.


You act like a rookie QB wonít need a competent OL, only Eli does.

If the Giants go QB with a trash OL the ďcanít miss franchise QBĒ will be the next David Carr.
Trading Down Still The Best Route IMO  
TheVette : 3/13/2018 12:01 pm : link
Time to go after Buffalo - grab those 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders, 2 3rd rounders, and a #1 pick next year. That's 8 picks in rounds 1-3 this year - use 4 of them on OL, and start the rebuild up front, use 3 of them on CB/S, and grab a RB with the other.

This is a 2-3 year rebuild - so these picks are key to turning over this roster. Next year should be another high draft pick - with 2 #1s and a lot of cap space coming due - target your QB next year, but FIRST - see what you have with Webb. If this team is 1-4 after 5 games - Eli should no longer be starting.
RE: Norwell  
YAJ2112 : 3/13/2018 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13861862 johnboyw said:
Quote:
So much for loyalty to the guy who gave him his start. And chalk up a big win for TC at the Giants expense. The bumbling continues.


and you know the Giants didn't offer him the same deal how? He could have easily chosen Jax for the weather, no state tax, better team.
Wasnít for a lack for trying  
hitdog42 : 3/13/2018 12:04 pm : link
And wasnít an unwillingness to pay similar contract.
RE: Trading Down Still The Best Route IMO  
lax counsel : 3/13/2018 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13861874 TheVette said:
Quote:
Time to go after Buffalo - grab those 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders, 2 3rd rounders, and a #1 pick next year. That's 8 picks in rounds 1-3 this year - use 4 of them on OL, and start the rebuild up front, use 3 of them on CB/S, and grab a RB with the other.

This is a 2-3 year rebuild - so these picks are key to turning over this roster. Next year should be another high draft pick - with 2 #1s and a lot of cap space coming due - target your QB next year, but FIRST - see what you have with Webb. If this team is 1-4 after 5 games - Eli should no longer be starting.


You do realize next years qb class will actually not warrant a top 5 pick, right? It's going to be a historically weak class. So targeting a qb next year is a flawed plan.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Not a fan of  
BigBlueinChicago : 3/13/2018 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13861740 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Jerry, Harris, Vereen, and all the shitty LBs Reese paid for were bad FA deals. Individually their deals seem like a drop in the bucket but collectively their money adds up. Iíd rather pay for one or two quality guys in FA than a handful of check in the box guys.


It is the "I would rather have $1.00 than four quarters" saying.

I agree with you.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/13/2018 12:04 pm : link
Sounds like Norwell simply chose JAX over us.

I don't blame him. They're a QB away from being perhaps the best team in the league.
RE: RE: Trading Down Still The Best Route IMO  
TheVette : 3/13/2018 12:08 pm : link
In comment 13861883 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 13861874 TheVette said:
Quote:


Time to go after Buffalo - grab those 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders, 2 3rd rounders, and a #1 pick next year. That's 8 picks in rounds 1-3 this year - use 4 of them on OL, and start the rebuild up front, use 3 of them on CB/S, and grab a RB with the other.

This is a 2-3 year rebuild - so these picks are key to turning over this roster. Next year should be another high draft pick - with 2 #1s and a lot of cap space coming due - target your QB next year, but FIRST - see what you have with Webb. If this team is 1-4 after 5 games - Eli should no longer be starting.



You do realize next years qb class will actually not warrant a top 5 pick, right? It's going to be a historically weak class. So targeting a qb next year is a flawed plan.


There are other ways to get a QB (FA), and as far as who emerges next year in CFB - will have to see how it plays out. You can't say it's a flawed plan at all when no College QB has thrown a pass yet in 2018 and in bowl games. But if they take a QB with #2 - you do nothing to fill the tons of holes on the this team, so let him sit behind Eli and watch this team go 4-12. Be ready for that
RE: .  
hitdog42 : 3/13/2018 12:10 pm : link
In comment 13861887 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Sounds like Norwell simply chose JAX over us.

I don't blame him. They're a QB away from being perhaps the best team in the league.


Team and state - yup
RE: RE: .  
The_Boss : 3/13/2018 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13861905 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
In comment 13861887 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Sounds like Norwell simply chose JAX over us.

I don't blame him. They're a QB away from being perhaps the best team in the league.



Team and state - yup


So state tax laws aside, that would actually mean the NYG are not a desirable destination for FA's given the current state of the roster and all the chaos from a season ago. Awesome.
RE: RE: In a funny kind of way...  
NYG07 : 3/13/2018 12:44 pm : link
In comment 13861869 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13861848 M.S. said:


Quote:



...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.

Why?

Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.

And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.

But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.




You act like a rookie QB wonít need a competent OL, only Eli does.

If the Giants go QB with a trash OL the ďcanít miss franchise QBĒ will be the next David Carr.


You are right, but if you are going to keep Eli then throw him to the wolves next season and let the rookie sit for a year. With a couple of draft picks this year and the cap relief from releasing Eli next offseason, they can go after top FA O-lineman. Then they may actually have a competent O-line.
RE: RE: .  
SHO'NUFF : 3/13/2018 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13861905 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
In comment 13861887 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Sounds like Norwell simply chose JAX over us.

I don't blame him. They're a QB away from being perhaps the best team in the league.



Team and state - yup


$$$$ tax free
RE: RE: RE: Trading Down Still The Best Route IMO  
GoBlue6599 : 3/13/2018 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13861901 TheVette said:
Quote:
In comment 13861883 lax counsel said:


Quote:


In comment 13861874 TheVette said:
Quote:


Time to go after Buffalo - grab those 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders, 2 3rd rounders, and a #1 pick next year. That's 8 picks in rounds 1-3 this year - use 4 of them on OL, and start the rebuild up front, use 3 of them on CB/S, and grab a RB with the other.

This is a 2-3 year rebuild - so these picks are key to turning over this roster. Next year should be another high draft pick - with 2 #1s and a lot of cap space coming due - target your QB next year, but FIRST - see what you have with Webb. If this team is 1-4 after 5 games - Eli should no longer be starting.



You do realize next years qb class will actually not warrant a top 5 pick, right? It's going to be a historically weak class. So targeting a qb next year is a flawed plan.



There are other ways to get a QB (FA), and as far as who emerges next year in CFB - will have to see how it plays out. You can't say it's a flawed plan at all when no College QB has thrown a pass yet in 2018 and in bowl games. But if they take a QB with #2 - you do nothing to fill the tons of holes on the this team, so let him sit behind Eli and watch this team go 4-12. Be ready for that

Who are the Giants going to draft that will prevent this team from going 4-12 next year
You expect a trade down and then grab a bunch of starters from 1 draft class? Wishful thinking
RE: In a funny kind of way...  
Eman11 : 3/13/2018 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13861848 M.S. said:
Quote:

...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.

Why?

Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.

And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.

But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.


I think the opposite and felt he would go for one or the other, not two guys who play the same position. I.e. If he landed Norwell he'd be more likely to pass on Nelson but now he might be more inclined to get him.
RE: RE: In a funny kind of way...  
M.S. : 3/13/2018 12:50 pm : link
In comment 13861869 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13861848 M.S. said:


Quote:



...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.

Why?

Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.

And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.

But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.




You act like a rookie QB wonít need a competent OL, only Eli does.

If the Giants go QB with a trash OL the ďcanít miss franchise QBĒ will be the next David Carr.

Oh, no... Eli gets to play behind the "trash OL" while the rookie wears a visor and carries the clip board.

It's only right.

Let the old dog take the whacks... not the spanking new spring pup.
I have a different take on Norwell's contract.  
81_Great_Dane : 3/13/2018 1:04 pm : link
At least, I think my take is different. I'm at work and can't read the whole thread above.

The market for quality O-linemen is beginning to reflect their new scarcity. Guards were never worth that kind of money, but supply is low and demand is high. The market is self-correcting. The price for good guards is going up.

In theory, the supply of quality guards should increase to meet the demand and the increasing money for linemen -- but the lack of quality linemen may be due to structural factors that aren't that flexible (such as diminished practice time and colleges not developing talent at those positions).

So we might be entering a period when very good linemen get paid a lot. But that money has to come from somewhere. Are there any positions where talent is plentiful and guys are easily replaced?

Tough call. Running backs and receivers maybe?

RE: RE: RE: RE: Trading Down Still The Best Route IMO  
TheVette : 3/13/2018 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13862029 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:
In comment 13861901 TheVette said:


Who are the Giants going to draft that will prevent this team from going 4-12 next year
You expect a trade down and then grab a bunch of starters from 1 draft class? Wishful thinking


As opposed to? Drafting Rosen or Darnold? That's not preventing this team from going 4-12 either. How do you expect for this team to improve such a barren roster, if they do not do it via the draft? If they trade down - they can use this draft to actually build depth and improve the talent on the roster. For all those who are against trading down - I never hear the alternative as to how the rest of the roster will be improved? What would you do? Draft a QB, and then what else? Use the next 3 drafts to build the roster?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Trading Down Still The Best Route IMO  
GoBlue6599 : 3/13/2018 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13862120 TheVette said:
Quote:
In comment 13862029 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:


In comment 13861901 TheVette said:


Who are the Giants going to draft that will prevent this team from going 4-12 next year
You expect a trade down and then grab a bunch of starters from 1 draft class? Wishful thinking



As opposed to? Drafting Rosen or Darnold? That's not preventing this team from going 4-12 either. How do you expect for this team to improve such a barren roster, if they do not do it via the draft? If they trade down - they can use this draft to actually build depth and improve the talent on the roster. For all those who are against trading down - I never hear the alternative as to how the rest of the roster will be improved? What would you do? Draft a QB, and then what else? Use the next 3 drafts to build the roster?

Improve this roster to what? Playoff quality? A trade down and a bunch of rookie starters isn't going to acomplish that IMO..
Yeah take Rosen/ Darnold and if they're the studs we hope year 2-3 we could be back fairly quickly with a roster on the rise and a yound stud @ Qb
This team aint going from 3 wins to SB contender come on that's just fallacy
Screw the quick fix because it rarely works and let's do this the right way and IMO it starts with a young top notch Qb
I blame this all on Jerry Reese  
BigBlue1013 : 3/13/2018 2:12 pm : link
Gettleman took over a mess of a team. If Jerry Reese would have taken the Draft serious, our OL wouldn't have be such a mess it has become. I give props to Dave because he could have done what Reese did with Vernon-JPP-Harrison-Jenkins...over pay(Since you know Reese couldn't draft at those positions). He probably set his price to Norwell and Norwell got a better deal. Can't blame Norwell for that.

I am disappointed in Norwell going to the Jags(Happy for Coach Coughlin) but there is plenty of OL Free Agents. Yes they aren't Norwell but again since this team is a mess you got to find a way to plug these holes until you draft and develop a couple of OLman

Solder-Henderson-Fleming-Sitton-Kline-Fusco would be good options
RE: RE: RE: In a funny kind of way...  
WillVAB : 3/13/2018 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13862041 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 13861869 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 13861848 M.S. said:


Quote:



...I almost believe that losing out on Norwell may focus management's attention even more toward going QB at #2.

Why?

Well, had DG secured the services of Norwell, maybe he would have then be tempted to go Quenton Nelson thus providing Eli Manning with the best possible interior wall to thrive behind.

And make no fucking mistake about it... Eli needs to be made as comfortable as possible to maximize the skills he still possesses.

But, now, Quenton alone ain't gonna be enough, so maybe the thinking reverts back to the primary goal of this Draft, which is not to maximize what Eli still has in the tank, but to find Eli's replacement.




You act like a rookie QB wonít need a competent OL, only Eli does.

If the Giants go QB with a trash OL the ďcanít miss franchise QBĒ will be the next David Carr.


Oh, no... Eli gets to play behind the "trash OL" while the rookie wears a visor and carries the clip board.

It's only right.

Let the old dog take the whacks... not the spanking new spring pup.


Donít understand why youíre using quotes around trash OL. Itís a fact.

So Ď19 is the year the Giants get 3-5 new competent offensive linemen?

Just keep kicking the can down the road.
WillVAB...  
M.S. : 3/13/2018 3:47 pm : link
... I used quotations because they were your words, that is all.

Of course our O-line is trash... not one BBIer would believe otherwise.

All I'm saying is that we need a new franchise QB and, if we cannot fix the line in one off-season, my overwhelming preference is to let Eli take the beating, not our rookie QB.

Y'all couldn't WAIT to get rid of Diehl ,Seubert ,and McKenzie  
Red Right Hand : 3/14/2018 3:01 am : link
Couldn't wait. Anyone would be better, Y'all said. Turnstiles, you said. Easily replaced. How'd that turn out?

Not so easy to build a good Oline is it?
RE: Maybe this is Gettleman's secret ploy...  
Red Right Hand : 3/14/2018 3:06 am : link
In comment 13861097 M.S. said:
Quote:

...to get rid of Eli.
Reese tried it and it didn't work, lol.
RE: RE: Stapleton wrote that Norwell was consuming the NYG  
Red Right Hand : 3/14/2018 3:16 am : link
In comment 13861134 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 13861105 The_Boss said:


Quote:


FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. Iím sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems theyíre kindda fucked.



Guess Mr Kick Ass, isnít so good at selling to the players. But good at tough guy talk to excite fans.
Player won't sign because of state of the team, but it's gettlemans fault. OK,right, cause he built this roster, and after all, he's been here long enough to fix it, right?. So who do you want as your next GM, you clearly don't like this one?
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