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What do you think the plan is?

Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 10:15 am
There's very little insight into what the team is trying to do. So let's speculate based on zero information.

Gettleman was a mixed bag of comments. In one sentence he acknowledges that his job is to win, then next that it's his job to safeguard the long-term view of the franchise.

He establishes that the OL is a problem and must be fixed. No idea if Norwell was a real target or not.

Suggested Eli has years left, but concedes he has to go back and watch the games again.


Where's this boat headed?
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Win  
section125 : 3/13/2018 10:16 am : link
the Super Bowl?
he's operating beautifully. nobody knows outside of his office  
Victor in CT : 3/13/2018 10:17 am : link
what they are going to do. Isn't that how it should be? Wasn't Reese righly killed here for telegraphing every move?
Norwell was 100% a legit target but JAX outbid us  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 3/13/2018 10:18 am : link
It is what it is. Credit Gettleman for not overspending here. Now it's onto more journeyman options. Yeah sucks, but it could be worse.
This draft has very good interior lineman  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/13/2018 10:19 am : link
available at all rounds. I am sure we will pick one or 2 of them up.

The oline was never going to be fixed in 1 year.
Yes!  
giantsFC : 3/13/2018 10:21 am : link
But they need to throw in Blake Bortles and Tom Coughlin.
Was Norwell a target of the Giants? Sure sounds like it.  
mikeinbloomfield : 3/13/2018 10:34 am : link
But your post points out a very important thing: none of us are in the room with Gettleman. Who knows what the plan is.

We have to remember, Gettleman is the one who found this guy in the first place. We have to trust that the new regime has the player evaluation skills in place to improve the team, in all areas.

Its fun to speculate, but I wouldn't indict the new staff for losing out on one player who maybe decided he wanted to pay less in taxes and pay in good weather.
Gettlemen kinda said that there are good OL out there  
Rjanyg : 3/13/2018 10:36 am : link
you just have to find them. Norwell was the obvious choice to go after but it doesn't mean that there aren't other solid OL that would be an upgrade and could be signed to a more affordable contract. We should be able to sign 2 guys for the same money that Norwell got. Hubbard and Kelemete for example or Sitton and Fleming.
The plan?  
Section331 : 3/13/2018 10:37 am : link
PANIC!!!

I'm certain Norwell was a main target of Gettleman's, but I'm even more certain that DG has contingency plans. He knows his next move. Maybe it's Solder, or maybe he goes to a 2nd tier interior OL and targets Nelson in the draft. I'll save my worry until after FA and the draft.
Agreed  
NoPeanutz : 3/13/2018 10:37 am : link
Norwell wasn't the plan, only an option. They didn't get the player, but they still have the money.
From 3-13, virtually anywhere is a step in the right direction. Not getting Norwell has more of an impact on the strategy than the success.
Accept this or not  
JonC : 3/13/2018 10:39 am : link
but, available resources are limited out there and while the public statement is we're going to try and win now, the moves made may not support that in the end.
Draft Well  
Frank from CA : 3/13/2018 10:41 am : link
so the organization is not dependent on overspending in free agency every damn year. Draft Well and let high priced players walk when they have a top market price. Get compensatory picks. Draft Well. Hire Scouts who can give quality assessments of the talent available. Draft Well. That's all I want the of season Giants work to be known for from this day forward: A Team that will Draft well. The team has wasted so much cap space making up for drafting poorly. This draft, like all others should be about acquiring actual NFL players. They will draft a QB for the future at #2. It has to happen.
If it were  
jvm52106 : 3/13/2018 10:45 am : link
me, the plan would be to rebuild via the draft. Trade back, acquire picks, some VETs and reload a roster that is very thin....
Not sure how they can possibly convince themselves  
bceagle05 : 3/13/2018 10:46 am : link
this is some "win now" team. I'm not a big fan of DRC, Pugh or Richburg, but it'll cost resources (money/draft picks) to replace them, and it's unlikely their replacements will be a significant upgrade right away. This isn't 2011 - the days of Eli carrying some mediocre team to the promised land are long gone.

Draft a QB, let Eli play one more season, then say goodbye. Go into the 2019 offseason with a young QB poised to take over and a ton of cap space.
RE: Norwell was 100% a legit target but JAX outbid us  
BillKo : 3/13/2018 10:55 am : link
In comment 13861454 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
It is what it is. Credit Gettleman for not overspending here. Now it's onto more journeyman options. Yeah sucks, but it could be worse.


I think that's a perfect assessment.

You cut your losses and you move on...that's football.

You're not going to win every battle.......
Don't know what the plan is  
Breeze_94 : 3/13/2018 10:57 am : link
but if it were me, I'd be targeting a QB at #2. Smokescreens left and right about wanting Barkley, allowing us to grab Darnold. If Darnold is taken #1, then I'd be happy with Rosen as I believe he is a similar level of talent and a franchise QB.

In FA, the Giants should try to plug as many holes as possible. I'd prefer younger guys rather than 30 something year old vets.

Ryan Jensen comes to mind, only 26 years old and an ascending player who we can build around on the OL.

Josh Kline, 28 years old, has been one of the best pass blocking RG's over the last 4 years, with only Zach Martin allowing less pressures.

EJ Gaines, a 25 year old corner who would be an ideal fit in Bettcher's secondary.

If Ju'wuan James becomes available, I'd go after him. 25 years old, above average at RT with potential to become even better. He could be the next Kareem McKenzie for us.

Jeremiah Attaochu- miscast for the Chargers, but he has some pass rushing potential at LB

RE: Not sure how they can possibly convince themselves  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 10:57 am : link
In comment 13861535 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
this is some "win now" team. I'm not a big fan of DRC, Pugh or Richburg, but it'll cost resources (money/draft picks) to replace them, and it's unlikely their replacements will be a significant upgrade right away. This isn't 2011 - the days of Eli carrying some mediocre team to the promised land are long gone.

Draft a QB, let Eli play one more season, then say goodbye. Go into the 2019 offseason with a young QB poised to take over and a ton of cap space.


I'm fine with this. It would sure be nice to have some reassurance that this is what they're thinking. I really hope they don't overreact to today by pinning their #2 pick on an inside lineman when there is likely going to be a high quality QB prospect at the table.
Contingency plans  
GeoMan999 : 3/13/2018 10:59 am : link
This was not shocking to Gettlemen. He knew ahead of time this could happen. I love the fact that we are not telegraphing our plans to the media. Or a least the correct ones.
RE: Contingency plans  
GFAN52 : 3/13/2018 11:04 am : link
In comment 13861598 GeoMan999 said:
Quote:
This was not shocking to Gettlemen. He knew ahead of time this could happen. I love the fact that we are not telegraphing our plans to the media. Or a least the correct ones.


Exactly, especially as all the "NFL insiders" tweeted away that first it was a "done deal" he signs with the Giants, followed by we were a "finalist".
Unknown.  
Keith : 3/13/2018 11:06 am : link
Going after Norwell or Ogletree doesn't mean anything because both are very young and should have a lot of good football left.

It seems as though we are headed towards a rebuild(getting rid of older overpriced guys and signing young players), but we will see. I don't think anything is set in stone as far as the QB position goes, but even if it is a rebuild, keeping Eli on board doesn't change that. See 2004 when Eli was drafted.

Praying this team sees this correctly and starts the rebuild as opposed and being foolish thinking this team can win something.
Sign marginal guys and coach them up  
VinegarPeppers : 3/13/2018 11:07 am : link
While the Eagles win three straight Super Bowls while able to dump low round picks for starters better than the ones we’re way overpaying.

Jensen, Kline, and Hubbard  
JonC : 3/13/2018 11:09 am : link
are three good targets to plug in with Flowers, and they'll likely draft at least one OL they believe could start.
No clue. I would think the brass wasn’t too thrilled  
The_Boss : 3/13/2018 11:10 am : link
Losing out on a building block type big fish for the weakest unit on the team. DG might have to partake in one of JR’s favorite FA OL activity: dumpster diving.
FA OL plan B  
jeff57 : 3/13/2018 11:15 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Jensen, Kline, and Hubbard  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/13/2018 11:20 am : link
In comment 13861645 JonC said:
Quote:
are three good targets to plug in with Flowers, and they'll likely draft at least one OL they believe could start.


and also likely to tender Jones
RE: RE: Jensen, Kline, and Hubbard  
JonC : 3/13/2018 11:23 am : link
In comment 13861686 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 13861645 JonC said:


Quote:


are three good targets to plug in with Flowers, and they'll likely draft at least one OL they believe could start.



and also likely to tender Jones


They need to do better there.
Joe Berger is another interior lineman  
jeff57 : 3/13/2018 11:25 am : link
who would be worth looking at. But the big OL play now should be for Solder.
The plan is to improve  
Joey in VA : 3/13/2018 11:36 am : link
Depth and get this roster back to actually being an NFL roster. I'm expecting DG to shore up multiple areas with mid 20s guys on their second contract who are probably not going to excite many people. The precipitous drop in talent from the starters to the backups in most spots is alarmingly bad. He mentioned that everyone gets a shirt at some point in the season and his job is to shore up the 53.

There simply aren't the Marquee talents in FA this year so why go wild on one or two big names when you can add plenty of less expensive veteran depth. He simply has to start at the bottom of the roster and move up. The weak link argument is a strong one in football especially now with so many specialist type players. You start at the bottom and work your way up and I fully expect to see that first and that's how it should be.

During his first stint here, DG found serviceable and effective low cost guys who kept us competitive when injuries or fatigue hit during the season or in a game. We had Rich Seubert as a sixth OL one year, imagine that right now. He'd be our best OL by miles and he wasn't good enough to start back then. Think about guys like Domenik Hixon and Dave Tollefson, Madison Hedgecock, Kevin Boothe. Those were depth signings that didn't move the needle but all played well and played hard when called upon. Proven NFL veteran talent, we need way way more of it to begin competing again.
BS  
Dragon : 3/13/2018 11:37 am : link
Norwell was never a reality for the Giants under no circumstance were they really anything more then a stepping stone for teams with much more money to spend. We all should know better than to listen to the media this guy took the money like they all do not a big surprise.
Build up the trenches as much as possible pre-draft  
Eric on Li : 3/13/2018 11:43 am : link
with a skew towards younger players who are high in character/competitiveness, that's what I think the plan is. I think Norwell might have been plan A but this team was very far away from a 1 move fix. Multiple OL who fit the mentality DG/PS are looking for will be signed, with a preference towards youth. Maybe a veteran like Berger to compete with a rookie somewhere. I think that's the first order of business and we'll see 50-60% of the cap room available reallocated towards the OL.

On the defensive side of the ball I think we will see some strategic additions for specific roles Bettcher thinks are important in his defense. Slot CB seems like an obvious one. A veteran LB he's coached before like Dansby could be another. These will likely be more patient value signings vs. top tier additions. Ogletree was probably the biggest defensive addition they will make in terms of cap allocation.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/13/2018 11:46 am : link
2-3 year rebuild.

I think they know this team can't realistically compete next season. So, I think we're going to see more long-range moves rather than plugs and stopgaps.
RE: .  
The_Boss : 3/13/2018 11:56 am : link
In comment 13861810 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
2-3 year rebuild.

I think they know this team can't realistically compete next season. So, I think we're going to see more long-range moves rather than plugs and stopgaps.


If this is indeed the plan, and I agree it might be, why have Eli on the roster?
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 3/13/2018 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13861852 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 13861810 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


2-3 year rebuild.

I think they know this team can't realistically compete next season. So, I think we're going to see more long-range moves rather than plugs and stopgaps.



If this is indeed the plan, and I agree it might be, why have Eli on the roster?


Because whether we agree with it or not, I think they want Eli to be the transition guy for the next QB.

My guess is that we do draft a QB, and that Eli continues starting for a bit - possibly all of next season.

I think they want the next guy to have some time to learn from the sidelines before he gets thrown into action.

But we'll see.
RE: RE: .  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13861852 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 13861810 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


2-3 year rebuild.

I think they know this team can't realistically compete next season. So, I think we're going to see more long-range moves rather than plugs and stopgaps.



If this is indeed the plan, and I agree it might be, why have Eli on the roster?


Hard to move his contract. But it's also why I'm very uneasy about their approach. I'm not so sure they're committed to a rebuild.
Ten Ton  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 12:35 pm : link
I share your unease about the future.

Gettleman should be stripping this thing down to bare bones, accumulating draft picks and cap space at every opportunity. Do that for a year or two, reset the organization, and build up from there.

But I suspect we'll get Eli back in 2018, big contracts for Collins and Beckham, and an effort to "make a run" with Eli. Again.
RE: RE: .  
Reb8thVA : 3/13/2018 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13861852 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 13861810 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


2-3 year rebuild.

I think they know this team can't realistically compete next season. So, I think we're going to see more long-range moves rather than plugs and stopgaps.



If this is indeed the plan, and I agree it might be, why have Eli on the roster?


Are we in any better shape in 2-3 years? I don't know. Eli's contract comes off the books, but that money is probably already allocated for Collins and OBJ. Maybe its easier to cut JPP then. I like the Ogletree trade but I do wonder if we would be better accumulating picks.
other than letting FAs walk  
djm : 3/13/2018 12:46 pm : link
which they have done, how do you strip this down? You aren't cutting guys that can play.

They aren't rebuilding. They will build for the now and the future. There's no such thing as a 3 year rebuild. There's building for the now and the future.
The ogletree trade is what's throwing me  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 12:48 pm : link
I get taking on big salary if you think you're close. I don't get taking on big salary and giving up picks with a rebuild.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/13/2018 12:50 pm : link
We can label it whatever we want, really - but the bottom line is that we need to rebuild this team from the inside out.

We need to fix the line, we need to figure out who our next QB is, and then we need to go from there.

The Giants likely aren't going to be competitive next year. It makes more sense to be looking at things that can help us long-term rather than right now.
RE: other than letting FAs walk  
nygiants16 : 3/13/2018 12:50 pm : link
In comment 13862020 djm said:
Quote:
which they have done, how do you strip this down? You aren't cutting guys that can play.

They aren't rebuilding. They will build for the now and the future. There's no such thing as a 3 year rebuild. There's building for the now and the future.


Go tarps doesn't believe in paying anyone...

So he wants to get rid of Collins and Beckham to try and draft players just as good, and then when their contract comes get rid of them...
and they already did strip this thing down  
djm : 3/13/2018 12:51 pm : link
back in 2014.

You try to get the most out of what you have been dealt with an eye towards the future. That's what Gettleman and Shurmur will do here.

There aren't as many long term monster deals here as some think. There is Vernon, JPP and Snacks and Jack Rabbit. That's it. Those guys can play and cutting them now would be a tough pill to swallow. Next year some of those guys are more "cuttable" who rush it?

This isn't the NBA where you try to lose. You build with an eye for the future.
RE: .  
The_Boss : 3/13/2018 12:53 pm : link
In comment 13862038 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
We can label it whatever we want, really - but the bottom line is that we need to rebuild this team from the inside out.

We need to fix the line, we need to figure out who our next QB is, and then we need to go from there.

The Giants likely aren't going to be competitive next year. It makes more sense to be looking at things that can help us long-term rather than right now.


That's why missing on Norwell stings. He would still be a major cog on a contender in 2-3 seasons. I don't blame him for going to Jax: much better team and yes the tax advantage is there as well. I think, until this team starts showing progress, premium FA's are going to avoid this train wreck like the plague. JAG's welcome.
Some oline guys I'd look at:  
AdamBrag : 3/13/2018 12:55 pm : link
Josh Kline, G - This is the guy I really want. I think he's a better scheme fit in a ZBS and he's a great pass protector.
Cameron Flemming, OT - Hasn't played a ton for the Pats, but he's been very solid when he's played.
Sentrel Henderson, OT - Dealing with some health issues, but he could be a legitimate starter in this league.
John Sullivan, C - Has experience in Shurmur's scheme
Joe Berger, C - Same story
I think Gettleman and Shurmur  
djm : 3/13/2018 12:56 pm : link
look at this as though the team has some obvious sore spots and some strong points. They can't cut everyone even if they wanted to so with that in mind they are giving everyone a clean slate. How can you suggest otherwise? like I said, you can't cut everyone. Sit back, let the players you think are trouble prove themselves. If they do, great. IF they don't bye bye.

You don't cut every player with a smudge next to his name after one season and 3-4 plus signs next to the other seasons. That's just shortsighted. You give them a chance to play under your HC.
Cutting everyone is obviously not an option  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 12:58 pm : link
But like I said earlier Gettleman should be accumulating picks and cap space at every opportunity.

Draft well and use free agency to acquire low cost depth. Play the kids you draft and let them take their lumps.
RE: Cutting everyone is obviously not an option  
arcarsenal : 3/13/2018 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13862073 Go Terps said:
Quote:
But like I said earlier Gettleman should be accumulating picks and cap space at every opportunity.

Draft well and use free agency to acquire low cost depth. Play the kids you draft and let them take their lumps.


Weren't you just saying picks were "overrated" as recently as like 2 months ago?
RE: .  
GFAN52 : 3/13/2018 1:01 pm : link
In comment 13862038 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
We can label it whatever we want, really - but the bottom line is that we need to rebuild this team from the inside out.

We need to fix the line, we need to figure out who our next QB is, and then we need to go from there.

The Giants likely aren't going to be competitive next year. It makes more sense to be looking at things that can help us long-term rather than right now.


Being somewhat competitive means probably drafting in the 12-16 range next year.
arc  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 1:03 pm : link
An individual pick can be, yeah. It depends on the situation. Drafting well isn't about one pick. It's about establishing a pipeline over time. a pick here or there isn't a game changer if you draft well. Perfect example is 2005. We were out a couple premium picks because of the Eli trade, but still drafted Webster, Tuck, and Jacobs.

We're in this mess because we drafted like shit for years. Not because we missed on one or two picks.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 3/13/2018 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13862084 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 13862038 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


We can label it whatever we want, really - but the bottom line is that we need to rebuild this team from the inside out.

We need to fix the line, we need to figure out who our next QB is, and then we need to go from there.

The Giants likely aren't going to be competitive next year. It makes more sense to be looking at things that can help us long-term rather than right now.



Being somewhat competitive means probably drafting in the 12-16 range next year.


I'm not sure we'll even be "somewhat" competitive, to be honest.

I'd have to see who we drafted and what else we did in FA, though. Way too early to tell.
The key to the rebuild is hitting on picks  
nygiants16 : 3/13/2018 1:06 pm : link
You have to get lucky ad find gems in rounds 3-7, round 3 has killed the giants, that is where you get your depth..

You can trade Beckham for 5 picks but if you only hit on one of them you Made a shit trade...

Getting rid of Beckham makes zero sense, you are trading Beckham in the hopes of drafting another beckham..
RE: arc  
arcarsenal : 3/13/2018 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13862092 Go Terps said:
Quote:
An individual pick can be, yeah. It depends on the situation. Drafting well isn't about one pick. It's about establishing a pipeline over time. a pick here or there isn't a game changer if you draft well. Perfect example is 2005. We were out a couple premium picks because of the Eli trade, but still drafted Webster, Tuck, and Jacobs.

We're in this mess because we drafted like shit for years. Not because we missed on one or two picks.


No disagreement there. The drafting was horrendous for several years and set the team back big time.

The quickest way back to respectability will be converting on a much higher % of these picks.

I don't want to see more picks made because of shit like captainship or measurables. I want guys who are productive football players.
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