LT and move Flowers to RT where he is better suited and better than anything we had there last year. So we improve LT and RT with this move. Then we just need 2 guards, at least 1 we should be able to grab in the draft. The Stewart signing definitely has me thinking we are going QB in the 1st where he can help protect which would mean Eli probably finds a new team. He doesn't want to be Kurt Warner. That's my best guess.
Yeah, I was saying that before. MD Anderson is a fantastic place. I do not think that it would be going out on a limb to say that he would not find better care in Boston (Harvard Med, Dana Farber, Mass Gen, whatever) than he would at MD Anderson. Not saying it's worse either.
The one thing he wouldn't necessarily have there, though, is familiarity. People are generally loathe to switch doctors, especially for something specialized and major like this. He does have an established relationship, so the decision could be medical but independent of quality of care.
MD Anderson is one of the top cancer centers in the country. There were a few patients in Jax that would make the drive to Houston for treatment and back. MD Anderson has since opened a campus here in Jax. Another lady in Vicksburg did the same. My old girlfriend's brother is undergoing a clinical trial at MD Anderson and he is in Illinois.
I am not going to confirm or deny what JonC is saying b/c I have zero inside info. But I agree in the sense that Flowers shows no attributes of a good OG. While weight room strong, he doesn't convert it to power in the run game. His leverage game is very poor. If anything...and I am not optimistic, he is a RT where his length may serve him well, where he's not typically going against the top speed rushers.
Correct, knee bend and playing very tall are two big fundamental problems with EF. Edge rushers are able to ran past him and get under his pads, and once those things happen he's rendered ineffective.
The problem.....he wants to stay in NE
George from PA : 5:52 am : link : reply
So does Bill match?
The Pats know his physical history better than anyone, especially the concussions....
If someone comes knocking, and offers Solder an average of 13/14M per, I think he would jump on it, because no way is BB going to pay that for a LT, when the next highest salaried OLman is getting 4M.....BB has a history of releasing/trading players that don't meet his salary demands.....Mankins anyone?
Solder knows this, and the only way he stays if the guarantee money is there, because he knows BB does not honor the last years of big contracts....
As for the Giants, look at the salaries of all 5 starters in the OL last season.....add them up and it doesn't even equal what Solder made last season.....Reese tried to skimp on paying for the OL, so he could pay big bucks on the defensive side.....
Given his age better hope the contract length isn’t too long Â
RE: Giants were absolutely in on Norwell
Jon in NYC : 8:21 am : link : reply
In comment 13863863 JonC said:
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and Flowers isn't going to OG yet.
Makes sense. He should be moved to RT. Solder to left in theory. Still need to find two guards though.
and yet the Giant brain trust last season could have possibly signed LT's last season, but wanted them to play RT instead of Flowers....What does that say?
RE: RE: RE: Giants were absolutely in on Norwell Â
I appreciate the info. Is there a sense missing out could lead to the selection of Nelson? I really hope not. I get it, we need to rebuild this Oline, but the #2 pick is a rare resource and no OG can provide the franchise altering impact you hope for. Chubb has the positional value, but I just don't see him on that level of talent.
I really hope they don't overthink this one --It really should be as simple as Darnold or Barkley, IMO.
RE: Given his age better hope the contract length isn’t too long Â
It's the structure of the contract that matters, not the length per se. A lot of five-year contracts really are two-year deals with a three-year option for the team since they are easy to cut after the second year. And they wind up with big numbers for the agents to tout, but most of the number is hypothetical.
if you want to lock in Ereck Flowers at guard. It's a significant change to go from operating on the edge to working in a confined space. Footwork is even more important and that's never been any kind of strong point for him. Not saying it can't work, but in my amateur opinion, guard isn't just a recycling bin for players who aren't good enough to play tackle. The players we've seen make the position switch and be good contributors are guys that are a LOT more fundamentally rock solid than Ereck Flowers.
In comment 13863913 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
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In comment 13863907 GFAN52 said:
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.
It's the structure of the contract that matters, not the length per se. A lot of five-year contracts really are two-year deals with a three-year option for the team since they are easy to cut after the second year. And they wind up with big numbers for the agents to tout, but most of the number is hypothetical.
On the draft front, the info I have is already a week old. The word was Barkley and Chubb are way up the board and sense was Nelson was behind them. No info on QB. Still six weeks to go and things could change, that's all I've got at the moment. I agree I'd go Darnold or Barkley, no interest in trading down and my limited looks at Chubb don't leave me thinking he's the #2 or #3 or #4 best prospect in this draft.
As for the braintrust, it's a new man in charge now and he values OL. Let's see if can lock up Solder.
RE: Giants were absolutely in on Norwell
Jon in NYC : 8:21 am : link : reply
In comment 13863863 JonC said:
Quote:
and Flowers isn't going to OG yet.
Makes sense. He should be moved to RT. Solder to left in theory. Still need to find two guards though.
and yet the Giant brain trust last season could have possibly signed LT's last season, but wanted them to play RT instead of Flowers....What does that say?
It says last year's brain trust had a lot invested in flowers and didn't want to admit they were wrong
Is real good. Not great but real good. I'd rate him as between the 8th and 12th best LT in football. Solid in protection and excellent in run game. 30 isn't old for tackles. Is say 4 years at 14 per is fine. That only takes him to age 33.
overlay for Solder they will have the fourth best LT in the NFC East
1) If this signing were to occur, I'd probably prefer Solder at LT than the Philly LT situation going forward. I'd also be concerned if I were Dallas about persistent back issues w/ Tyron Smith going forward.
2) NFC East LT position ranking isn't that relevant. Without a viable OL, especially LT, you lose the opportunity to develop the new QB (be it Webb or a rookie) or ride out the remainder of Manning's tenure effectively.
overlay for Solder they will have the fourth best LT in the NFC East
1) If this signing were to occur, I'd probably prefer Solder at LT than the Philly LT situation going forward. I'd also be concerned if I were Dallas about persistent back issues w/ Tyron Smith going forward.
2) NFC East LT position ranking isn't that relevant. Without a viable OL, especially LT, you lose the opportunity to develop the new QB (be it Webb or a rookie) or ride out the remainder of Manning's tenure effectively.
so the Giants would spend a ton of their cap on an OT. And still need more O-Linemen along with needing linebackers and now a secondary to replace DRC.
Yet you're making a point about "riding out Eli's tenure EFFECTIVELY?" What does "effectively" mean in terms of what would be your "expectation?"
rather not give Solder 13/14 million at his age, but that is the market for LTs, and we have no other options, especially if they are committed to Eli for another two years. And as someone said, this could solve two problems, because Flowers can move to RT.
As far as the draft, I'd prefer a small trade down, but am happy taking Barkley, Nelson, or Chubb in that order. Darnold would be my fifth option, and fourth choice.
overlay for Solder they will have the fourth best LT in the NFC East
1) If this signing were to occur, I'd probably prefer Solder at LT than the Philly LT situation going forward. I'd also be concerned if I were Dallas about persistent back issues w/ Tyron Smith going forward.
2) NFC East LT position ranking isn't that relevant. Without a viable OL, especially LT, you lose the opportunity to develop the new QB (be it Webb or a rookie) or ride out the remainder of Manning's tenure effectively.
so the Giants would spend a ton of their cap on an OT. And still need more O-Linemen along with needing linebackers and now a secondary to replace DRC.
Yet you're making a point about "riding out Eli's tenure EFFECTIVELY?" What does "effectively" mean in terms of what would be your "expectation?"
To be clear, I don't think Solder is = Tony Boselli. But he's a viable LT that allows your QB (Eli in the interim, but more importantly, he helps the protection of our new QB when that guy is selected and given time). It is not smart to introduce Webb or a rookie to NFL football in a similar fashion to how the Texans did it with David Carr.
He also allows NYG to move Flowers to RT where he has a chance to be adequate.
Lastly, it paves the way for premium draft picks to be spent where there is depth in the draft, the interior OL.
then Flowers moves to RT where he should be a better fit. Brett Jones is likely to start at center so that leaves both guard spots that need to be addressed. I fully expect this team to add a guard in the 2nd round with either Wynn, Hernandez, Price, or Smith.
That leaves the Giants with one spot to fill. One player to keep an eye on is Chad Wheeler. A few scouting reports suggested that he would be better at guard. He could compete to start at LG. If he wins the job he could potentially move outside in a couple of years to replace Solder or Flowers.
did for the Rams last year, I don't see how anybody could be against signing Solder. How about the impact a 37 year old Lomas Brown had on the Giants o-line in 2000. Everyone wants young, talented players, and I do as well. However, not every player has to be an upcoming star. Solder could be a very good player for us for 3-4 years, on an offense featuring some very good to exceptional talent at the skill positions.
teams have speed rushers over there now too. I'd rather see Solder and Pugh as the Tackles. I know some don't think Flowers can play G, but thats where I'd start him and let him battle it out.
I still think Flowers' weaknesses at LT will be a problem at RT. Â
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Houston is no slouch of a place for medical care.
Yeah, I was saying that before. MD Anderson is a fantastic place. I do not think that it would be going out on a limb to say that he would not find better care in Boston (Harvard Med, Dana Farber, Mass Gen, whatever) than he would at MD Anderson. Not saying it's worse either.
The one thing he wouldn't necessarily have there, though, is familiarity. People are generally loathe to switch doctors, especially for something specialized and major like this. He does have an established relationship, so the decision could be medical but independent of quality of care.
MD Anderson is one of the top cancer centers in the country. There were a few patients in Jax that would make the drive to Houston for treatment and back. MD Anderson has since opened a campus here in Jax. Another lady in Vicksburg did the same. My old girlfriend's brother is undergoing a clinical trial at MD Anderson and he is in Illinois.
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O'Brien connection & the no state income tax going for them.
Plus MD Anderson.
NY has Memorial Sloan Kettering.
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and Flowers isn't going to OG yet.
and you know this how?
It's what one of my sources is telling me.
Makes sense. He should be moved to RT. Solder to left in theory. Still need to find two guards though.
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In comment 13863863 JonC said:
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and Flowers isn't going to OG yet.
and you know this how?
It's what one of my sources is telling me.
Interesting. I think Flowers could be an excellent guard. I think his weaknesses would still be there at RT.
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In comment 13863863 JonC said:
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and Flowers isn't going to OG yet.
and you know this how?
It's what one of my sources is telling me.
Fair enough.
RD2 any of the top choices projected in this area: Wynn, Hernandez, Smith (per Sy write-up), Price, Daniels
RD3: I really like Austin Corbett a lot
George from PA : 5:52 am : link : reply
So does Bill match?
The Pats know his physical history better than anyone, especially the concussions....
If someone comes knocking, and offers Solder an average of 13/14M per, I think he would jump on it, because no way is BB going to pay that for a LT, when the next highest salaried OLman is getting 4M.....BB has a history of releasing/trading players that don't meet his salary demands.....Mankins anyone?
Solder knows this, and the only way he stays if the guarantee money is there, because he knows BB does not honor the last years of big contracts....
As for the Giants, look at the salaries of all 5 starters in the OL last season.....add them up and it doesn't even equal what Solder made last season.....Reese tried to skimp on paying for the OL, so he could pay big bucks on the defensive side.....
Jon in NYC : 8:21 am : link : reply
In comment 13863863 JonC said:
Quote:
and Flowers isn't going to OG yet.
Makes sense. He should be moved to RT. Solder to left in theory. Still need to find two guards though.
and yet the Giant brain trust last season could have possibly signed LT's last season, but wanted them to play RT instead of Flowers....What does that say?
Quote:
In comment 13863863 JonC said:
Quote:
and Flowers isn't going to OG yet.
and you know this how?
It's what one of my sources is telling me.
I really hope they don't overthink this one --It really should be as simple as Darnold or Barkley, IMO.
Quote:
.
It's the structure of the contract that matters, not the length per se. A lot of five-year contracts really are two-year deals with a three-year option for the team since they are easy to cut after the second year. And they wind up with big numbers for the agents to tout, but most of the number is hypothetical.
Agreed
As for the braintrust, it's a new man in charge now and he values OL. Let's see if can lock up Solder.
Jon in NYC : 8:21 am : link : reply
In comment 13863863 JonC said:
Quote:
and Flowers isn't going to OG yet.
Makes sense. He should be moved to RT. Solder to left in theory. Still need to find two guards though.
and yet the Giant brain trust last season could have possibly signed LT's last season, but wanted them to play RT instead of Flowers....What does that say?
It says last year's brain trust had a lot invested in flowers and didn't want to admit they were wrong
1) If this signing were to occur, I'd probably prefer Solder at LT than the Philly LT situation going forward. I'd also be concerned if I were Dallas about persistent back issues w/ Tyron Smith going forward.
2) NFC East LT position ranking isn't that relevant. Without a viable OL, especially LT, you lose the opportunity to develop the new QB (be it Webb or a rookie) or ride out the remainder of Manning's tenure effectively.
Thanks Captain Obvious
Quote:
overlay for Solder they will have the fourth best LT in the NFC East
1) If this signing were to occur, I'd probably prefer Solder at LT than the Philly LT situation going forward. I'd also be concerned if I were Dallas about persistent back issues w/ Tyron Smith going forward.
2) NFC East LT position ranking isn't that relevant. Without a viable OL, especially LT, you lose the opportunity to develop the new QB (be it Webb or a rookie) or ride out the remainder of Manning's tenure effectively.
so the Giants would spend a ton of their cap on an OT. And still need more O-Linemen along with needing linebackers and now a secondary to replace DRC.
Yet you're making a point about "riding out Eli's tenure EFFECTIVELY?" What does "effectively" mean in terms of what would be your "expectation?"
As far as the draft, I'd prefer a small trade down, but am happy taking Barkley, Nelson, or Chubb in that order. Darnold would be my fifth option, and fourth choice.
Nope, the Redskins put a 2nd round tender on Nsekhe.
I think the Redskins gave him a second round tender.
If Solder is signed then Flowers and Wheeler will compete for the RT job.
It will be Flowers if they sign Solder.
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In comment 13863916 XBRONX said:
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overlay for Solder they will have the fourth best LT in the NFC East
1) If this signing were to occur, I'd probably prefer Solder at LT than the Philly LT situation going forward. I'd also be concerned if I were Dallas about persistent back issues w/ Tyron Smith going forward.
2) NFC East LT position ranking isn't that relevant. Without a viable OL, especially LT, you lose the opportunity to develop the new QB (be it Webb or a rookie) or ride out the remainder of Manning's tenure effectively.
so the Giants would spend a ton of their cap on an OT. And still need more O-Linemen along with needing linebackers and now a secondary to replace DRC.
Yet you're making a point about "riding out Eli's tenure EFFECTIVELY?" What does "effectively" mean in terms of what would be your "expectation?"
To be clear, I don't think Solder is = Tony Boselli. But he's a viable LT that allows your QB (Eli in the interim, but more importantly, he helps the protection of our new QB when that guy is selected and given time). It is not smart to introduce Webb or a rookie to NFL football in a similar fashion to how the Texans did it with David Carr.
He also allows NYG to move Flowers to RT where he has a chance to be adequate.
Lastly, it paves the way for premium draft picks to be spent where there is depth in the draft, the interior OL.
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The Giants also currently do not have a right tackle.
It will be Flowers if they sign Solder.
At RT over Guard? Feels that puts Bisnowaty and Wheeler in back up positions.
Would be interesting if the Giants came back and offered Pugh a LG contract (less money then OT)
That leaves the Giants with one spot to fill. One player to keep an eye on is Chad Wheeler. A few scouting reports suggested that he would be better at guard. He could compete to start at LG. If he wins the job he could potentially move outside in a couple of years to replace Solder or Flowers.
Yes.
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In comment 13864000 christian said:
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The Giants also currently do not have a right tackle.
It will be Flowers if they sign Solder.
At RT over Guard? Feels that puts Bisnowaty and Wheeler in back up positions.
Would be interesting if the Giants came back and offered Pugh a LG contract (less money then OT)
Flowers is not an OG. If they sign a LT, Flowers is going to get every chance to succeed at RT next.
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If browns take Darnold do you have us taking Barkley?
Yes.
Is this what you would do or is that what your hearing?