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Herlzich contract is for Vet Min

Disturbed1 : 3/14/2018 8:43 am
1 Year ($790,000) Per Ralph V

Take a step back from that ledge my friends
It would have been highly disappointing if it wasn't  
ZogZerg : 3/14/2018 8:44 am : link
..
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 8:45 am : link
So $800,000 for an old, above average special teams player!!! Great!!!! (sarcasm off)
RE: ...  
giants#1 : 3/14/2018 8:46 am : link
In comment 13863938 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
So $800,000 for an old, above average special teams player!!! Great!!!! (sarcasm off)


Cap wise I believe there are exceptions that bring the cost down.

And if he is still "above average" on STs, then it's a solid move. It would be even better if he could also serve as the LS!
giants#1  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 8:49 am : link
We'll agree to disagree on this.

Mara Tech Jr. has not come to the conclusion that this team needs a massive reboot.
Team needs  
djstat : 3/14/2018 8:51 am : link
A new owner
Yea  
big canoe jeff : 3/14/2018 8:53 am : link
And he takes up a roster spot
RE: giants#1  
Justlurking : 3/14/2018 8:54 am : link
In comment 13863949 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We'll agree to disagree on this.

Mara Tech Jr. has not come to the conclusion that this team needs a massive reboot.


Yup. There should be nobody over 30 on this team.
RE: giants#1  
giants#1 : 3/14/2018 9:01 am : link
In comment 13863949 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We'll agree to disagree on this.

Mara Tech Jr. has not come to the conclusion that this team needs a massive reboot.


Overhauling STs depth wouldn't count as a massive reboot one way or the other.

Signing Stewart doesn't signal a massive reboot either and that's 10x more significant an addition than Herzlich.

IMO, the only move they can make this year that signifies reboot vs anything else is the #2 pick. Taking a QB is clearly a reboot with Eli mentoring him in 2018 and (potentially) Solder patching the OL for 2-3 years until they find a long term fix.

And if they go that route, I can see JPP/Vernon/Jenkins being cap casualties at this time next year. The cap savings just aren't significant enough to pull the trigger this year as their replacements would cost significantly more than the savings or be significantly worse. You're getting an Ayers-level DE for the $5M you'd save cutting Vernon.

Outside of those 3 defenders and Eli, what moves would really qualify as 'massive'? Trading Beckham?
I wonder if  
jvm52106 : 3/14/2018 9:04 am : link
too much is being made of 2016. That season is more and more of a mirage as we move along. This team is so thin at:

Oline (thin and shitty)
CB- thin now and maybe thinner if Apple is just a train wreck
LB- Ogletree and Goodson (injury prone) is really all we have
DL- no idea yet on how this shakes out
S- Collins and garbage
WR- OBJ and SS that is it.
QB- Eli (a question mark on where he is heading, especially with a bad oline), Webb (just a ?)

How do we possibly fill those spots if we can't bring in a boatload of FA's and are stuck with 5 draft picks?

I really think we should blow shit up. Eat dead money to clear some cap space. Trade some guys for picks (OV, JPP come to mind) and rebuild. Which means QB at #2 then.

If we go in another direction and fill spots with VETs then we HAVE to trade down and get extra picks... We will have no choice...
giants#1  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 9:05 am : link
On a rebuilding team, special teams players should be young back-up linebackers, defensive backs - not a 30+ year old player who can't play on defense. I'd rather use the roster spot on an undrafted rookie free agent. That still may happen, but let's be honest, did you actually think Greco and Herzlich would be our first UFA re-signings? I didn't.
Strange bringing Herz back!  
Simms11 : 3/14/2018 9:06 am : link
he's a ST leader and that's about it. He's extremely limited as a LBer. He might be better as an inside LBer in a 3-4 where his athleticism could be masked a tad. He still can't cover a cold however.
RE: giants#1  
jvm52106 : 3/14/2018 9:11 am : link
In comment 13863987 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
On a rebuilding team, special teams players should be young back-up linebackers, defensive backs - not a 30+ year old player who can't play on defense. I'd rather use the roster spot on an undrafted rookie free agent. That still may happen, but let's be honest, did you actually think Greco and Herzlich would be our first UFA re-signings? I didn't.


Eric, I am kind of at a loss as to what we are trying to do. It isn't just the guys we have signed but what we seem to be doing in general. Are we retooling or rebuilding? if it is rebuilding then why keep Eli, JPP etc. Dead money means nothing to anyone but the owners. Cap space means everything. So what are we doing. If we really think we are building a team for a QB pick at #2 then keeping Eli makes even less sense. What are we doing for him and his legacy? Basically take a fucking beating until we get good line for our new QB? Hell, if that is the case then let Webb play until a #2 QB pick is ready to step in and our line is better.

So right now we have no idea what the actual plan is, the blue print. Anyone thinking this team makes a big turnaround based on what we did in 2016 is not being realistic to the situation now or what we got lucky with in 2016.
Need 90 players for the start of camp  
Beer Man : 3/14/2018 9:11 am : link
There is a good chance he doesn't make the final roster.
Are we retooling or rebuilding?  
Doomster : 3/14/2018 9:22 am : link
That is the $64,000 question.....


Well, actually the $550,000 question, after inflation...
Giants in playoffs  
bc4life : 3/14/2018 9:23 am : link
two years ago, 3-13 last year. Both seasons involved several close games. Probably looked better and worse than they actually were during both years.

Biggest unknown - what they think of OLine players. Totally devoid of talent or available talent misused/poorly coached.

Really good DTs, talent on the outside, need better pass rusher, & some depth. Decent secondary talent but need a free safety.

wr & TEs corps good.

Subtractions:

Darkwa, Vereen, Marshall, Harris, Pugh, Wing, Hart, Richburg, Fluker, Wynn, Bromley, Goodson, Casillas, DRC, and one maybe 2 of the safeties will be gone.

Draft & UFAs will add 4-6 players. At the end of it all - we will probably be replacing close to half the roster - that is a significant rebuild.

And, FA is not over yet - we're only into 3rd day. Interest has been there - Norwell, Hubbard - players went elsewhere.
As player 53  
pjcas18 : 3/14/2018 9:24 am : link
I have zero issue with this.

If he sees the field on defense then the Giants are in trouble.

Still one of my favorite tweets (and if you never saw Herzlich at BC pre-cancer you missed out).

Quote:

Mark Herzlich
‏Verified account @MarkHerzlich

2 yrs ago I was told I'd never walk again, Just WALKED off plane to #Indy to play in #SuperBowl #TakeThatCancer
RE: ...  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 3/14/2018 9:29 am : link
In comment 13863938 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
So $800,000 for an old, above average special teams player!!! Great!!!! (sarcasm off)


100%. Completely useless.
jvm52106  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 9:33 am : link
We don't have a lot of cap room and we only have five draft picks left.

My strategy at this point would be to do nothing in free agency and then bottom feed in a week or so. We'll have to wing it on the OL with bringing in journeymen vets (guys like Greco but hopefully a little younger - I could swear I read he was retiring at one point). But I would not be re-signing guys like Herzlich. I would be shopping Eli (but they are not going to do that). I'd seriously consider parting ways with JPP at this point. That's not going to happen either.

What's going to happen is we are going to find out how much McAdoo was or was not over his head and how good or mediocre a coach Pat Shurmur is. Because talent wise, this team isn't going to be much different.
RE: Yea  
AcidTest : 3/14/2018 9:40 am : link
In comment 13863956 big canoe jeff said:
Quote:
And he takes up a roster spot


+1.
Enough with the  
pjcas18 : 3/14/2018 9:41 am : link
"only have 5 draft picks left"

Herzlich will contribute a lot more on special teams in 2018 than anyone the Giants draft in the 6th or 7th rounds will likely contribute ever in their whole career.

Geremy Davis, Bennett Jackson, Michael Cox, Eric Hermann, Bobby Hart, Adam Bisnowaty, Matt McCants, Jerell Adams

those are the guys the Giants are drafting in the 6th and 7th round.

I'll take Herzlich at 30 (or whatever he is) over all of them every day of the week.

you can take the 6th and 7th round picks off the Giants draft every single year and maybe once in 10 years would it wind up hurting (Bradshaw).

People are hand wringing over the 53rd player on the roster and a 6th and 7th round draft pick when there are much bigger issues with this roster.
RE: Need 90 players for the start of camp  
13ODB : 3/14/2018 9:52 am : link
In comment 13864006 Beer Man said:
Quote:
There is a good chance he doesn't make the final roster.



This guy was ruled out for the season on the final day of cuts last year and was still kept. He is going nowhere he has a lifetime contract here
The issue for me  
mikeygiants : 3/14/2018 10:23 am : link
is that if he's on the roster he's a backup linebacker, regardless of how you paint it.
RE: The issue for me  
pjcas18 : 3/14/2018 10:26 am : link
In comment 13864208 mikeygiants said:
Quote:
is that if he's on the roster he's a backup linebacker, regardless of how you paint it.


come on, in 2016 he played 14 snaps on D.
he played 130 in 2015, due to injury, only 4 games with more than single digits and 3 were among the final games of the season.

he's so far down the depth chart at LB it's like saying Zack DeOssie being on the roster makes him a backup LB too.



His cap hit will only be like 630k  
Scyber : 3/14/2018 10:30 am : link
with the veteran discount
RE: giants#1  
giants#1 : 3/14/2018 10:34 am : link
In comment 13863987 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
On a rebuilding team, special teams players should be young back-up linebackers, defensive backs - not a 30+ year old player who can't play on defense. I'd rather use the roster spot on an undrafted rookie free agent. That still may happen, but let's be honest, did you actually think Greco and Herzlich would be our first UFA re-signings? I didn't.


You still need to head into camp with 90 players and you can't have 30+ UDFAs trying to adjust to the speed of the NFL and learn the ropes. It's good to have some vets in there to help the kids learn.

And hopefully, one of those kids will show enough to bump Herzlich from the roster. It's not like Reese didn't bring in UDFA LBs. Those players just couldn't unseat Herzlich.
a bit more than that...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 1:30 pm : link

Jordan Raanan
‏Verified account @JordanRaanan
2m2 minutes ago

Mark Herzlich’s deal is minimum salary benefit: 1-year, $880K w/$65K guaranteed. #Giants
WTF  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 1:31 pm : link
did the Giants guarantee any of his contract?
RE: a bit more than that...  
YAJ2112 : 3/14/2018 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13865074 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:

Jordan Raanan
ţVerified account @JordanRaanan
2m2 minutes ago

Mark Herzlich’s deal is minimum salary benefit: 1-year, $880K w/$65K guaranteed. #Giants


His salary counts as 630K towards the cap, so he costs the same as the any 3rd year player. IF the 65K is a bonus, it would make his cap hit $695K.
RE: WTF  
Chris in Philly : 3/14/2018 3:56 pm : link
In comment 13865079 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
did the Giants guarantee any of his contract?


Are you really worried about the impact on the cap of the salary equivalent of, I dunno, a flight attendant?
RE: WTF  
pjcas18 : 3/14/2018 3:59 pm : link
In comment 13865079 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
did the Giants guarantee any of his contract?


Agree, that 65k was probably the difference for Norwell.

F-ing Herzlich.
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