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| Aaron Wilson & #8207; @AaronWilson_NFL Follow Follow @AaronWilson_NFL More Nate Solder's Giants deal: $62M, $16M signing bonus,$34.8M gtd, salaries $5.9M (gtd), $12.9M (gtd), $9.9M, $9.9M; $3M roster bonus 2020 league year, $4M roster bonus 2021 league year, annual $100K workout bonus |
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Most of the guaranteed money is the signing bonus plus first two years of the contract so if he falls of a cliff we are really only committed to 2018 and 2019
Why are folks ignoring the impact of a $16 million signing bonus? That's $4M per year in dead money depending on when/if you cut him.
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In comment 13865772 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 13865759 Mike in NY said:
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Most of the guaranteed money is the signing bonus plus first two years of the contract so if he falls of a cliff we are really only committed to 2018 and 2019
Why are folks ignoring the impact of a $16 million signing bonus? That's $4M per year in dead money depending on when/if you cut him.
Keeping him in Year 3 costs $16.9 Million. $4M signing bonus + $3M roster bonus + $9.9M salary. Cutting him only costs $8 Million (prorated signing bonus). Year 4 costs $17.9M to keep, $4M to cut.
Not to quibble but you are leaving off the $100K workout bonus. Hence, the salary and workout bonus makes an even number each year. You are right on the dead cap hits of $8M in 2020 and $4M in 2021.
Sorry left that out. That being said, if Flowers or Wheeler develop into a better LT than Solder that is potentially $10M in savings in Year 3 if we had to cut Solder which can more than afford replacement players even accounting for projected increases in Salary Cap.
Haha, that's essentially my reaction to each signing thread.
LOL, I fear I started this. I am not even down on the signing.
I think you have to do this mental exercise with any large contract. I like that it is front loaded because it allows more room to get players like OBJ, Landon Collins, etc. signed long-term
They can still cut him after three years with only 4 million in dead money. They could cut him after two years with only 8 million in dead money. So not a bad deal imo.
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Most of the guaranteed money is the signing bonus plus first two years of the contract so if he falls of a cliff we are really only committed to 2018 and 2019
Why are folks ignoring the impact of a $16 million signing bonus? That's $4M per year in dead money depending on when/if you cut him.
Agreed. For whatever reason, people seem to think that it's painless to cut someone just because cutting them results in more cap space than keeping them. $8MM (or even $4MM) of dead money is nothing to sneeze at.
Yes, the Giants can get out of the contract after two or three years, but every time you eat dead money, you are absorbing a competitive disadvantage as it relates to roster construction.
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Backloaded- as if they are anticipating a large contract coming off the books after this season.
“Massive” is a stretch.The guy is extremely overrrated and not worth close to what we gave him. He was the ONLY option, that doesn’t make it the best option.
Why wouldn't you care about the contract? the salary cap is not a leprechaun or a unicorn. It's a real tangible thing, that is not limitless and the use of it impact your ability as a team to add other players.
Saying who cares about the contract might seem progressive, but it's very short-sighted if you care about the team's ability to go into the draft without major holes to fill.
Which I told you repeatedly this morning.
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Who cares about the contract? Did you expect him to sign the vet min? He was the only viable option at LT this off season. He is a massive upgrade over Flowers. I am thrilled with this. Look how he performed down the stretch and in the last 2 super bowls. Only 30 and could get better.
“Massive” is a stretch.The guy is extremely overrrated and not worth close to what we gave him. He was the ONLY option, that doesn’t make it the best option.
Define “extremely overrated”. Because no one thinks he’s the best LT in the game. What he is is a proven top 10 LT who has all of his experience working with what is likely the most demanding QB in football and a constant rotation of RBs to block for.
The money is what it is, time will tell how good or bad of a contract it is. But to say it’s not a significant upgrade from Flowers is ridiculous.
I just am now catching up on this deal and have to shake my head and ask why? Improving the O-line by creating the highest paid Left Tackle in the NFL. For a 3-13 team and a 38 year old QB...
Am I in the minority here?
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They can cut bait or restructure in Year 3 without too much liability.
Which I told you repeatedly this morning.
No you didn't...
I said it earlier in another thread: 16M for 2 years, and a couple of $$ then hope Y 3&4 a draft pick is a starter.
I just am now catching up on this deal and have to shake my head and ask why? Improving the O-line by creating the highest paid Left Tackle in the NFL. For a 3-13 team and a 38 year old QB...
Am I in the minority here?
I think 3-13 is something people cling to a bit too much. We aren't that bad, especially with a healthy Beckham, Jenkins, etc and factoring in the other additions like Ogletree.
Why shouldn't we try to improve? This isn't a 35 year old player.
Giants may cut him after 2 years for a $2m cap savings, but if he plays well after the first 2 years, they could extend his contract, turn salaries into a signing bonus, a lessen the cap number for the last 2 years of the contract. It’s a well structured contact.
We blew the draft so we have to pay through the nose; those are the wages of sin. Stop whining about it. Draft better.
I just am now catching up on this deal and have to shake my head and ask why? Improving the O-line by creating the highest paid Left Tackle in the NFL. For a 3-13 team and a 38 year old QB...
Am I in the minority here?
Or he/Mara believe the team was totally mismanaged from the GM down to the coaching staff/system/schemes.
Maybe despite the lack of talent/injuries, they don’t believe it should have been a 3-13 team, and think they can turn it around quicker than expected. Got to let it play out.
Shades of Baas, Schwartz?
2019 $17M cap hit. Currently highest in NFL. (Will certainly be beat by next year's free agents)
2020: If he doesn't work out, release him to free up ~$9M. Otherwise, keep it moving.
Shades of Baas, Schwartz?
So sign no one ever for fear of injury?
Bottom line, DG was dealt shitty cards in fixing the biggest hole on the Giants. A crappy OL and he is working to fix it.
No one hear knows who are pick will be at number 2. Which is quite refreshing considering the prior administration loose lips.
I watched slot of the Patrlots last year and Solder is a lot better than EF.
I believe Solder will play at least 3 of the 4 years and hopefully all 4.
Can we at least wait until the end of the draft before we all walk all the ledge.
So those comments comport to paying the highest LT $ in the league to a guy who isn't close to be the best Left Tackle? And while you think we may be better than 3-13 (so do I) its not like we don't have other problems and taking on this contract only makes those tougher to deal with.
I like talent and we clearly need to get Flowers out of there, but to me successful restructuring of the O-line isn't done by creating the highest paid player at his position, like Norwell was going to be.
It has to be done with better drafting that cares about improving the O-line and player development.
If the view point is "fuck-that, we cannot wait", then this is the bed we have to sleep in...
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Before he's even taken a practice snap. Jesus Christ you guys must give yourselves terrible anxiety!
I think you have to do this mental exercise with any large contract. I like that it is front loaded because it allows more room to get players like OBJ, Landon Collins, etc. signed long-term
How the hell is this contract front-loaded? Do you even know what front-loaded means? This contract is nothing if not back-loaded.
We blew the draft so we have to pay through the nose; those are the wages of sin. Stop whining about it. Draft better.
We need O-linemen, LB's, ST players, DB's, RB. This is due to the fact that our drafts have been crap for years. You want to plug those holes you're going to need to spend money. Just stop with the constant bitching over every single player signed and let this new regime do it's job
The Giants have never utilized an aggressive interpretation of the draft. There is a difference between always being at the ceiling (as they do) and manipulating it as an accounting device.
The highest paid player at his position label will be gone by next season. Who cares anyway? We have the money and it was arguably the biggest need on the roster.
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Most of the guaranteed money is the signing bonus plus first two years of the contract so if he falls of a cliff we are really only committed to 2018 and 2019
Why are folks ignoring the impact of a $16 million signing bonus? That's $4M per year in dead money depending on when/if you cut him.
Year 3 is the only tricky part on this contract. First two years are guaranteed and should be relatively easy to manage. In Year 3, he'll be $8m in dead cap if released and $17m if we keep him. If his play declines at all, $17m will be a very tough pill to swallow, but he has to be pretty bad to eat the %8m in dead cap. This could be a tricky re-negotiation but we will likely overpay him on a lower priced contract as a RT or a back up, making something like $7m-$10m a year.
I can't imagine many scenarios where we keep his contract for the first 3 years and then cut him in Year 4.
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In comment 13865770 AcesUp said:
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They can cut bait or restructure in Year 3 without too much liability.
Which I told you repeatedly this morning.
No you didn't...
Riiighht. Your 11:39 AM post in the following thread (page 4, two-thirds of the way down) proves that you did. If you are going to lie, at least make it plausible
AcesUp gets caught lying - ( New Window )
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In comment 13865805 StingerProf said:
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Before he's even taken a practice snap. Jesus Christ you guys must give yourselves terrible anxiety!
I think you have to do this mental exercise with any large contract. I like that it is front loaded because it allows more room to get players like OBJ, Landon Collins, etc. signed long-term
How the hell is this contract front-loaded? Do you even know what front-loaded means? This contract is nothing if not back-loaded.
It is front loaded because all the guaranteed salary is up front.
In fact, the contract appears to be designed to force the Giants to either cut him or renegotiate after year 2.
The first 2 years salary are fully guaranteed, and he gets a $16M SB. After two years, only $8M in pro-rated SB is left. Year 3 has a salary of $9.9M BUT the bigger issue is the $3M roster bonus due at the start of the league year.
In other words, if the Giants cut him at the start of the league year, they get $1.9M in cap space, but carry $8M in dead money- not terrible.
However, if they do not cut him, his cap hit INCREASES to $16.9M AND it becomes harder to cut him after the 3rd year because the prorated hit goes up from $4M to $5.5M.
In short, the structure itself is designed to be a 2 year deal, at the end of which the parties restructure or walk away.
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In comment 13865818 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 13865805 StingerProf said:
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Before he's even taken a practice snap. Jesus Christ you guys must give yourselves terrible anxiety!
I think you have to do this mental exercise with any large contract. I like that it is front loaded because it allows more room to get players like OBJ, Landon Collins, etc. signed long-term
How the hell is this contract front-loaded? Do you even know what front-loaded means? This contract is nothing if not back-loaded.
It is front loaded because all the guaranteed salary is up front.
In fact, the contract appears to be designed to force the Giants to either cut him or renegotiate after year 2.
The first 2 years salary are fully guaranteed, and he gets a $16M SB. After two years, only $8M in pro-rated SB is left. Year 3 has a salary of $9.9M BUT the bigger issue is the $3M roster bonus due at the start of the league year.
In other words, if the Giants cut him at the start of the league year, they get $1.9M in cap space, but carry $8M in dead money- not terrible.
However, if they do not cut him, his cap hit INCREASES to $16.9M AND it becomes harder to cut him after the 3rd year because the prorated hit goes up from $4M to $5.5M.
In short, the structure itself is designed to be a 2 year deal, at the end of which the parties restructure or walk away.
I understand what you're saying, but $8MM in dead money is still $8MM in dead money. That's a competitive disadvantage.
Also, roster bonuses aren't amortized the way signing bonuses are. They're there to force a team's timing on a decision, but they don't spread a cap hit any differently than salary.
The justification that because several were close -- I juts don't think some fans understand.
I like DG's overall philosophy of believing in a front 7. But there are so many holes. The 2016 season was a fluke. And Eli isn't getting younger.
Then as our LT gets older our young QB will feel the heat more than he should then the endless cycle of trying to win now the GM will keep overpaying when he should have shown some semblance of patience.
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In comment 13865901 rich in DC said:
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In comment 13865770 AcesUp said:
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They can cut bait or restructure in Year 3 without too much liability.
Which I told you repeatedly this morning.
No you didn't...
Riiighht. Your 11:39 AM post in the following thread (page 4, two-thirds of the way down) proves that you did. If you are going to lie, at least make it plausible AcesUp gets caught lying - ( New Window )
I was hoping you would search that out and reread that, you definitely searched it out...but did you read it? If that's what you got out of our back and forth, I don't think I'm the one that missed the point.
LMFAO
I just am now catching up on this deal and have to shake my head and ask why? Improving the O-line by creating the highest paid Left Tackle in the NFL. For a 3-13 team and a 38 year old QB...
Am I in the minority here?
I think so, or at least should be.
Can Solder block in 2019 for either Davis Webb or a draft choice? And the following year of 2020?
I think the answer to that is yes. So from that perspective, with LT being of the utmost importance, this was a good signing.
If Solder was 35, I'd get your point. But he's 30.
The justification that because several were close -- I juts don't think some fans understand.
I like DG's overall philosophy of believing in a front 7. But there are so many holes. The 2016 season was a fluke. And Eli isn't getting younger.
Then as our LT gets older our young QB will feel the heat more than he should then the endless cycle of trying to win now the GM will keep overpaying when he should have shown some semblance of patience.
Unless there is a plan to develop young players to replace aging players.
New concept?