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Which QBís ďred flagsĒ are the least concerning?

eric2425ny : 4/8/2018 12:19 pm
I would say Darnold. The interceptions could still be a problem, but it seems like the strip sack issue could be corrected with coaching. He acknowledged at his pro day that he was placing a strong emphasis on keeping both hands on the ball before starting his throwing motion. His 21 fumbles the last few seasons have mostly been attributed to him holding the ball with one hand all the time.
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RE: RE: Milton  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/8/2018 5:48 pm : link
It's the concussions. Not the shoulder - the concussions. Some people are more susceptible to concussions than others, and Rosen may very well be part of the former.
I am with Milton regarding Rosen  
Jimmy Googs : 4/8/2018 5:50 pm : link
sans the boner...
Concussions  
Jimmy Googs : 4/8/2018 5:52 pm : link
Is a human more susceptible to get a concussion if they have had one before?
RE: RE: RE: Rosen  
Milton : 4/8/2018 6:00 pm : link
In comment 13905126 eric2425ny said:
Quote:

You must really like this guy, I think you will be disappointed on draft day, but you never know.
Well there's a lot at stake if you're a longtime Giants fan and you believe Rosen will be a great QB. If you have the time and the interest, it's worth watching the below four videos from Matt Waldman (the first two are from last year, the bottom two are from a couple months ago)...

Rosen: play action and pocket

Rosen: eye discipline and patience

Rosen: Footwork

Rosen: Vertical Game
RE: RE: RE: RE: Rosen  
eric2425ny : 4/8/2018 6:14 pm : link
In comment 13905149 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13905126 eric2425ny said:


Quote:



You must really like this guy, I think you will be disappointed on draft day, but you never know.

Well there's a lot at stake if you're a longtime Giants fan and you believe Rosen will be a great QB. If you have the time and the interest, it's worth watching the below four videos from Matt Waldman (the first two are from last year, the bottom two are from a couple months ago)...

Rosen: play action and pocket

Rosen: eye discipline and patience

Rosen: Footwork

Rosen: Vertical Game


His skill set isnít the issue, itís his fragility.
Milton  
UConn4523 : 4/8/2018 6:17 pm : link
so now Rosenís concussion history isnít as bad as reported and all misinformation? Come on dude.

You are crossing the obsession line at this point. Every point against Rosen has a counter point that makes it seem like heís the best QB prospect to ever hit the NFL instead of actually having legitimate red flags.

Iím on board if heís he pick as weíd have to assume our medical team is fine with the risk. But until that happens, his health is a massive red flag that canít be swept under he rug or just glossed over.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Rosen  
Milton : 4/8/2018 6:17 pm : link
In comment 13905176 eric2425ny said:
Quote:

His skill set isnít the issue, itís his fragility.
He doesn't deserve the china doll label. He's had injuries, but it's overplayed to say he is injury prone. We've been spoiled by Eli.
RE: Milton  
eric2425ny : 4/8/2018 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13905179 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
so now Rosenís concussion history isnít as bad as reported and all misinformation? Come on dude.

You are crossing the obsession line at this point. Every point against Rosen has a counter point that makes it seem like heís the best QB prospect to ever hit the NFL instead of actually having legitimate red flags.

Iím on board if heís he pick as weíd have to assume our medical team is fine with the risk. But until that happens, his health is a massive red flag that canít be swept under he rug or just glossed over.


Well said
I donít think you have to be ďspoiled by EliĒ  
UConn4523 : 4/8/2018 6:21 pm : link
to point out health risks of a QB. My friends who are Jets fans have the same thoughts on Rosenís health. Itís not some bullshit label, heís had them, heís missed a lot of time, and Iíd say itís possible, if not lkkely heís had more concussions than whatís reported, not less.
RE: I donít think you have to be ďspoiled by EliĒ  
eric2425ny : 4/8/2018 6:36 pm : link
In comment 13905186 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
to point out health risks of a QB. My friends who are Jets fans have the same thoughts on Rosenís health. Itís not some bullshit label, heís had them, heís missed a lot of time, and Iíd say itís possible, if not lkkely heís had more concussions than whatís reported, not less.


Exactly, letís play out this scenario. The Giants draft Rosen. He throws some great passes and has a good season or two, takes a hit from DeMarcus Lawrence, gets a concussion and then decides to retire two or three years into his career. Then we are totally screwed and in s worse position than we are in right now. Thatís why I donít want them to draft Rosen.
How does that put us in a worse situation  
Jimmy Googs : 4/8/2018 6:45 pm : link
than right now?

Lets not be so dramatic...
RE: How does that put us in a worse situation  
eric2425ny : 4/8/2018 6:53 pm : link
In comment 13905204 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
than right now?

Lets not be so dramatic...


Because we have the #2 pick, and hopefully wonít be in that position again in three years, which would make it difficult to draft another high end QB.
I think a lot of people better start thinking its more likley  
Jimmy Googs : 4/8/2018 7:06 pm : link
that we go thru a few QBs before finding another guy who turns into a pro like Eli.

I like Rosen and think he will be a very good NFL QB, but even saying that, we would be more than fortunate to find a 2-time Super Bowl winning QB with this pick.

Keeping it real...
RE: Rosen's red flags are the least concerning  
Eman11 : 4/8/2018 7:07 pm : link
In comment 13904972 Milton said:
Quote:
You may feel that Rosen is the most likely to lose time via injury, but it's not like the others are immune from injury. In fact, it's entirely possible that Rosen will be the most injury-free of all of them throughout his NFL career.



Yes it's also entirely possible his injury history follows him to the NFL and is just as bad if not worse than it was in college.

It's also entirely possible I win the Powerball next week. Point is, anything is possible and no one has said the others are immune to injury. Just that Rosen has a history of it and missing serious time, while the others sans Allen a few games senior year haven't had that history.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and I for one want the Giants to steer well clear of Rosen because of his injury history, and inability to play in or finish a lot of games.

No way in hell I want to go from an iron man like Eli to him.
RE: Concussions  
Jimmy Googs : 4/8/2018 7:09 pm : link
In comment 13905132 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Is a human more susceptible to get a concussion if they have had one before?


Anybody know?

I don't, but if the answer is no, or nobody knows, can we dial down the concussion thing for the next few weeks please...
RE: RE: Rosen's red flags are the least concerning  
eric2425ny : 4/8/2018 7:14 pm : link
In comment 13905218 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13904972 Milton said:


Quote:


You may feel that Rosen is the most likely to lose time via injury, but it's not like the others are immune from injury. In fact, it's entirely possible that Rosen will be the most injury-free of all of them throughout his NFL career.





Yes it's also entirely possible his injury history follows him to the NFL and is just as bad if not worse than it was in college.

It's also entirely possible I win the Powerball next week. Point is, anything is possible and no one has said the others are immune to injury. Just that Rosen has a history of it and missing serious time, while the others sans Allen a few games senior year haven't had that history.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and I for one want the Giants to steer well clear of Rosen because of his injury history, and inability to play in or finish a lot of games.

No way in hell I want to go from an iron man like Eli to him.


Exactly
RE: Concussions  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/8/2018 7:40 pm : link
In comment 13905132 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Is a human more susceptible to get a concussion if they have had one before?

There is a very valid school of thought that suggests that certain people are more prone to concussions than others. This is consistent with any other sort of injury, so there's no reason to dismiss it out of hand. If that's the case, Rosen isn't just a current risk; he may well be a permanent risk.

I like Rosen a lot as a QB, but he may well lack the one ability we've grown to take for granted with Eli: availability.
Rosen  
GoBlue6599 : 4/8/2018 8:05 pm : link
Josh Rosen is the best QB in this draft.. if our medical staff oks it we should run to the podium
Big Ben and Rogers missed games would you pass on one of them..
Rosen has that type of potential Imo
Josh Rosen  
GoBlue6599 : 4/8/2018 8:05 pm : link
Josh Rosen is the best QB in this draft.. if our medical staff oks it we should run to the podium
Big Ben and Rogers missed games would you pass on one of them..
Rosen has that type of potential Imo
RE: Josh Rosen  
eric2425ny : 4/8/2018 8:26 pm : link
In comment 13905271 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:
Josh Rosen is the best QB in this draft.. if our medical staff oks it we should run to the podium
Big Ben and Rogers missed games would you pass on one of them..
Rosen has that type of potential Imo


How many Super Bowls has Rogers won? Would probably have more rings if he could stay healthy. Is he a better QB than Eli from a skills perspective (overall career), probably. But Eli never misses a game and is clutch. If you put two QBís in front of me and said one will put up crazy stats and will miss 10% of his games, and the other will put up 75% if they guys statistical production and miss little to no time Iíll take the second guy all day long. Durability wins championships in the NFL, itís not a skills competition.

RE: RE: Josh Rosen  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/8/2018 8:45 pm : link
In comment 13905299 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 13905271 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:


Josh Rosen is the best QB in this draft.. if our medical staff oks it we should run to the podium
Big Ben and Rogers missed games would you pass on one of them..
Rosen has that type of potential Imo



How many Super Bowls has Rogers won? Would probably have more rings if he could stay healthy. Is he a better QB than Eli from a skills perspective (overall career), probably. But Eli never misses a game and is clutch. If you put two QBís in front of me and said one will put up crazy stats and will miss 10% of his games, and the other will put up 75% if they guys statistical production and miss little to no time Iíll take the second guy all day long. Durability wins championships in the NFL, itís not a skills competition.

Is Rodgers a better QB from a skills perspective (presumably putting injuries aside) than Eli? Probably? I stopped reading there.

I guess it's a fundamental disagreement, but I can't see how anyone chooses Eli over Rodgers. And that's not intended as an insult to Eli.
RE: RE: Josh Rosen  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/8/2018 8:54 pm : link
In comment 13905299 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 13905271 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:


Josh Rosen is the best QB in this draft.. if our medical staff oks it we should run to the podium
Big Ben and Rogers missed games would you pass on one of them..
Rosen has that type of potential Imo



How many Super Bowls has Rogers won? Would probably have more rings if he could stay healthy. Is he a better QB than Eli from a skills perspective (overall career), probably. But Eli never misses a game and is clutch. If you put two QBís in front of me and said one will put up crazy stats and will miss 10% of his games, and the other will put up 75% if they guys statistical production and miss little to no time Iíll take the second guy all day long. Durability wins championships in the NFL, itís not a skills competition.

Durability, in Eli's case, has never won a playoff game except for the two Super Bowl runs. Durability has led to a barely above .500 record. Durability has led to missing the playoffs in nearly half of Eli's seasons. Durability has led to leading the NFL in interceptions and fumbles during Eli's career.

Excellence wins championships, not durability. Eli was superb during the two Super Bowl runs of his career, and there's no taking that away from him. But durability wasn't the key factor other than him surviving those eight games. It IS a skills competition. One that Eli won, twice.
RE: RE: Josh Rosen  
GoBlue6599 : 4/8/2018 9:25 pm : link
In comment 13905299 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 13905271 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:


Josh Rosen is the best QB in this draft.. if our medical staff oks it we should run to the podium
Big Ben and Rogers missed games would you pass on one of them..
Rosen has that type of potential Imo



How many Super Bowls has Rogers won? Would probably have more rings if he could stay healthy. Is he a better QB than Eli from a skills perspective (overall career), probably. But Eli never misses a game and is clutch. If you put two QBís in front of me and said one will put up crazy stats and will miss 10% of his games, and the other will put up 75% if they guys statistical production and miss little to no time Iíll take the second guy all day long. Durability wins championships in the NFL, itís not a skills competition.

Probably? Aaron Rogers is clearly better then Eli...
RE: RE: RE: Josh Rosen  
eric2425ny : 4/8/2018 9:27 pm : link
In comment 13905331 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13905299 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


In comment 13905271 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:


Josh Rosen is the best QB in this draft.. if our medical staff oks it we should run to the podium
Big Ben and Rogers missed games would you pass on one of them..
Rosen has that type of potential Imo



How many Super Bowls has Rogers won? Would probably have more rings if he could stay healthy. Is he a better QB than Eli from a skills perspective (overall career), probably. But Eli never misses a game and is clutch. If you put two QBís in front of me and said one will put up crazy stats and will miss 10% of his games, and the other will put up 75% if they guys statistical production and miss little to no time Iíll take the second guy all day long. Durability wins championships in the NFL, itís not a skills competition.



Durability, in Eli's case, has never won a playoff game except for the two Super Bowl runs. Durability has led to a barely above .500 record. Durability has led to missing the playoffs in nearly half of Eli's seasons. Durability has led to leading the NFL in interceptions and fumbles during Eli's career.

Excellence wins championships, not durability. Eli was superb during the two Super Bowl runs of his career, and there's no taking that away from him. But durability wasn't the key factor other than him surviving those eight games. It IS a skills competition. One that Eli won, twice.


The Giants not winning the last few years has very little to do with Eli, heís had one of the worst lines in the league for a while now and no RB worth a crap in years. The guy was throwing to replacement league level players the second half of last season. Yes, you have to obviously have skills to be a good NFL QB, but durability is huge which is why Rosen seems like a bad idea. Eli wasnít the best QB in the league in either of the years the Giants won the SB. He was durable and clutch when it mattered most.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Josh Rosen  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/8/2018 9:39 pm : link
In comment 13905371 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 13905331 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13905299 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


In comment 13905271 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:


Josh Rosen is the best QB in this draft.. if our medical staff oks it we should run to the podium
Big Ben and Rogers missed games would you pass on one of them..
Rosen has that type of potential Imo



How many Super Bowls has Rogers won? Would probably have more rings if he could stay healthy. Is he a better QB than Eli from a skills perspective (overall career), probably. But Eli never misses a game and is clutch. If you put two QBís in front of me and said one will put up crazy stats and will miss 10% of his games, and the other will put up 75% if they guys statistical production and miss little to no time Iíll take the second guy all day long. Durability wins championships in the NFL, itís not a skills competition.



Durability, in Eli's case, has never won a playoff game except for the two Super Bowl runs. Durability has led to a barely above .500 record. Durability has led to missing the playoffs in nearly half of Eli's seasons. Durability has led to leading the NFL in interceptions and fumbles during Eli's career.

Excellence wins championships, not durability. Eli was superb during the two Super Bowl runs of his career, and there's no taking that away from him. But durability wasn't the key factor other than him surviving those eight games. It IS a skills competition. One that Eli won, twice.



The Giants not winning the last few years has very little to do with Eli, heís had one of the worst lines in the league for a while now and no RB worth a crap in years. The guy was throwing to replacement league level players the second half of last season. Yes, you have to obviously have skills to be a good NFL QB, but durability is huge which is why Rosen seems like a bad idea. Eli wasnít the best QB in the league in either of the years the Giants won the SB. He was durable and clutch when it mattered most.

And yet, he's 37 now. We don't get those wasted years back. That's reality.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Josh Rosen  
eric2425ny : 4/8/2018 9:43 pm : link
In comment 13905396 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13905371 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


In comment 13905331 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13905299 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


In comment 13905271 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:


Josh Rosen is the best QB in this draft.. if our medical staff oks it we should run to the podium
Big Ben and Rogers missed games would you pass on one of them..
Rosen has that type of potential Imo



How many Super Bowls has Rogers won? Would probably have more rings if he could stay healthy. Is he a better QB than Eli from a skills perspective (overall career), probably. But Eli never misses a game and is clutch. If you put two QBís in front of me and said one will put up crazy stats and will miss 10% of his games, and the other will put up 75% if they guys statistical production and miss little to no time Iíll take the second guy all day long. Durability wins championships in the NFL, itís not a skills competition.



Durability, in Eli's case, has never won a playoff game except for the two Super Bowl runs. Durability has led to a barely above .500 record. Durability has led to missing the playoffs in nearly half of Eli's seasons. Durability has led to leading the NFL in interceptions and fumbles during Eli's career.

Excellence wins championships, not durability. Eli was superb during the two Super Bowl runs of his career, and there's no taking that away from him. But durability wasn't the key factor other than him surviving those eight games. It IS a skills competition. One that Eli won, twice.



The Giants not winning the last few years has very little to do with Eli, heís had one of the worst lines in the league for a while now and no RB worth a crap in years. The guy was throwing to replacement league level players the second half of last season. Yes, you have to obviously have skills to be a good NFL QB, but durability is huge which is why Rosen seems like a bad idea. Eli wasnít the best QB in the league in either of the years the Giants won the SB. He was durable and clutch when it mattered most.


And yet, he's 37 now. We don't get those wasted years back. That's reality.


Agree, and not saying we shouldnít take a QB. But if you want Rosen, you better hope Webb ends up being good because you are probably going to be seeing a lot of him.
Thanks GD. I still lean towards drafting Rosen #2 if he is there  
Jimmy Googs : 4/8/2018 9:51 pm : link
notwithstanding the concussions.

Not saying its not a risk...just suggesting he is the goods and I still move forward with him.
RE: Concussions  
Milton : 4/9/2018 12:27 am : link
In comment 13905132 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Is a human more susceptible to get a concussion if they have had one before?
According to research, he is only more susceptible if he had a recent concussion. After a sufficient amount of time, he returns to his baseline level of risk. Given a year or two behind Eli, his risk should be no greater than any of the others. And given a year or two in the weight room, he will be in better condition to withstand the punishment of the NFL.
RE: RE: Concussions  
.McL. : 4/9/2018 3:43 am : link
In comment 13905663 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13905132 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


Is a human more susceptible to get a concussion if they have had one before?

According to research, he is only more susceptible if he had a recent concussion. After a sufficient amount of time, he returns to his baseline level of risk. Given a year or two behind Eli, his risk should be no greater than any of the others. And given a year or two in the weight room, he will be in better condition to withstand the punishment of the NFL.


This is mostly true.
Each concussions raises the risk, but the increase is small with the first 3 or so (as long as they are spread out)
After the first 3 or so, the curve starts getting steeper and the risk of additional concussions starts going up fast. Somewhere around 7 or 8 its VERY risky.
RE: RE: RE: Concussions  
.McL. : 4/9/2018 3:52 am : link
In comment 13905686 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 13905663 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13905132 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


Is a human more susceptible to get a concussion if they have had one before?

According to research, he is only more susceptible if he had a recent concussion. After a sufficient amount of time, he returns to his baseline level of risk. Given a year or two behind Eli, his risk should be no greater than any of the others. And given a year or two in the weight room, he will be in better condition to withstand the punishment of the NFL.



This is mostly true.
Each concussions raises the risk, but the increase is small with the first 3 or so (as long as they are spread out)
After the first 3 or so, the curve starts getting steeper and the risk of additional concussions starts going up fast. Somewhere around 7 or 8 its VERY risky.


Here is a link that makes it even more serious than I suggested above... The key number is still 3 though.

https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20031118/one-concussion-increases-risk-of-more#1

Quote:
Players with a history of three or more previous concussions were three times more likely to have a concussion within the season than those without a history of a concussion.


Regarding recent concussions increasing the risk:
Quote:
Of the 12 within-season repeat concussions, 92% occurred within 10 days of the first injury, and 75% occurred within seven days of the first injury.
He's at risk to miss games due to a concussion  
Milton : 4/9/2018 5:03 am : link
So are the other QBs in the draft. So are the RBs, WRs, and especially TEs in the draft. I don't think the evidence you're presenting makes his risk substantially greater than that of the others simply because he had two concussions of unknown (to us) severity this past year, especially given that he is expected to sit behind Eli for at least a season.
p.s.--QBs have the longest careers in the NFL and yet there has never been one to retire due to concussions. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Rosen would become the first, despite what you hear from the nervous Nellies.
RE: He's at risk to miss games due to a concussion  
Eman11 : 4/9/2018 10:55 am : link
In comment 13905695 Milton said:
Quote:
So are the other QBs in the draft. So are the RBs, WRs, and especially TEs in the draft. I don't think the evidence you're presenting makes his risk substantially greater than that of the others simply because he had two concussions of unknown (to us) severity this past year, especially given that he is expected to sit behind Eli for at least a season.
p.s.--QBs have the longest careers in the NFL and yet there has never been one to retire due to concussions. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Rosen would become the first, despite what you hear from the nervous Nellies.


Pretty sure Troy Aikman would've played longer if not for all the concussions he had.
RE: RE: He's at risk to miss games due to a concussion  
Milton : 4/9/2018 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13906081 Eman11 said:
Quote:

Pretty sure Troy Aikman would've played longer if not for all the concussions he had.
I'm curious, if you're "pretty sure" he would've played longer if not for the concussions, why not go the extra inch and google "Aikman concussions retire" so that you could be "absolutely sure" before posting? If you had, you would've found...
Quote:
"There are a lot of people that believe the concussions led to my retirement, but nothing could be further from the truth," Aikman said. "I then, nor now, have ever experienced anything that had to deal with the concussions. I had surgery back when I was 26. I was young when I had my first back surgery following our first Super Bowl victory and didn't miss any time for it.

"Then, going into my last year, I was having some back issues. I took epidural shots, as I understand Tony had this week, and the first time I took them was before the Jacksonville game that season in 2000, and I remember on the day of the game, waking up, and I'd never felt better for a game in my life. My back felt pain free for the first time in years. And in the first quarter, we completely turned Tony Brackens loose and he slammed me on the turf right flat on my back, and immediately, my back went into spasms. I was done for the day. So that good feeling lasted about half of a quarter. And I took shots the following week hoping that I could recapture the pain-free symptoms, and it never took again. So, that is why I retired."
Quote:
Aikman said he did not retire after the 2000 season because of the concussions. He said he stepped away from the NFL because of chronic back problems. When his career ended there was no research on chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) as there is now for players to evaluate. Aikman said in college he would take a significant hit once every two or three games, and that number amped up in the pros.

ďThese guys were grown men with a lot of years under their belt,Ē Aikman says. ďBut with the rule changes and safety focus, the quarterbacks are not even close to being hit as we were. I think the defensive players have learned where the target areas are, and quarterbacks and receivers are not being hit with the severity they once were.Ē
Quote:
Two summers ago Aikman met with Dr. Sandra Bond Chapman, a cognitive neuroscientist who serves as the CEO of Center for BrainHealth at the University of Texas at Dallas. Aikman was part of the facilityís board at the time, and he was looking to further educate himself on the centerís work. After the meeting concluded, Aikman told Chapman that he wanted to go through the centerís testing to evaluate his own brain. ďI wasnít suffering and had no reason to think someone was going on, but this seemed like a reputable place,Ē Aikman says.

The testing took three to four hours; the findings came back a few weeks later. Aikman tested well. ďIt certainly gave me some peace of mind,Ē Aikman says. ďBut the reason I have never been concerned is that the job that I have with Fox is a mental exerciseórecalling numbers and names and things of that nature. I am able to do that pretty readily."
Quote:
ďI use Daryl Johnston as an example. He played fullback [for Dallas], and every single play he was hitting someone with his head. These guys are the ones to me who are and were more susceptible. What we have seen is how offensive and defensive lineman facing sub-concussive hits that occur over and over repetitively are more at risk than the big blows.Ē

In the Age of Google, there is no reason to be satisfied with "pretty sure".....
and if true that was probably a stupid decision  
UConn4523 : 4/9/2018 2:11 pm : link
he had a ton of concussions during a time where there was far less info on it and really no rules. If a player now has the number of documented concussions that Aikman had they would never be allowed to play.
Rosen's attitude  
TMS : 4/9/2018 2:32 pm : link
and demeanor. Guy is a very smart, competitive and wants to be a big part of the strategy for winning. All good stuff if it is not disruptive. He is smart enough to figure that out too. Think he has gotten some bad press and remarks from peers because of his impatience/ contempt for options not similar to his.
RE: RE: RE: He's at risk to miss games due to a concussion  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/9/2018 5:30 pm : link
In comment 13906557 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13906081 Eman11 said:


Quote:



Pretty sure Troy Aikman would've played longer if not for all the concussions he had.

I'm curious, if you're "pretty sure" he would've played longer if not for the concussions, why not go the extra inch and google "Aikman concussions retire" so that you could be "absolutely sure" before posting? If you had, you would've found...

Quote:


"There are a lot of people that believe the concussions led to my retirement, but nothing could be further from the truth," Aikman said. "I then, nor now, have ever experienced anything that had to deal with the concussions. I had surgery back when I was 26. I was young when I had my first back surgery following our first Super Bowl victory and didn't miss any time for it.

"Then, going into my last year, I was having some back issues. I took epidural shots, as I understand Tony had this week, and the first time I took them was before the Jacksonville game that season in 2000, and I remember on the day of the game, waking up, and I'd never felt better for a game in my life. My back felt pain free for the first time in years. And in the first quarter, we completely turned Tony Brackens loose and he slammed me on the turf right flat on my back, and immediately, my back went into spasms. I was done for the day. So that good feeling lasted about half of a quarter. And I took shots the following week hoping that I could recapture the pain-free symptoms, and it never took again. So, that is why I retired."



Quote:


Aikman said he did not retire after the 2000 season because of the concussions. He said he stepped away from the NFL because of chronic back problems. When his career ended there was no research on chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) as there is now for players to evaluate. Aikman said in college he would take a significant hit once every two or three games, and that number amped up in the pros.

ďThese guys were grown men with a lot of years under their belt,Ē Aikman says. ďBut with the rule changes and safety focus, the quarterbacks are not even close to being hit as we were. I think the defensive players have learned where the target areas are, and quarterbacks and receivers are not being hit with the severity they once were.Ē



Quote:


Two summers ago Aikman met with Dr. Sandra Bond Chapman, a cognitive neuroscientist who serves as the CEO of Center for BrainHealth at the University of Texas at Dallas. Aikman was part of the facilityís board at the time, and he was looking to further educate himself on the centerís work. After the meeting concluded, Aikman told Chapman that he wanted to go through the centerís testing to evaluate his own brain. ďI wasnít suffering and had no reason to think someone was going on, but this seemed like a reputable place,Ē Aikman says.

The testing took three to four hours; the findings came back a few weeks later. Aikman tested well. ďIt certainly gave me some peace of mind,Ē Aikman says. ďBut the reason I have never been concerned is that the job that I have with Fox is a mental exerciseórecalling numbers and names and things of that nature. I am able to do that pretty readily."



Quote:


ďI use Daryl Johnston as an example. He played fullback [for Dallas], and every single play he was hitting someone with his head. These guys are the ones to me who are and were more susceptible. What we have seen is how offensive and defensive lineman facing sub-concussive hits that occur over and over repetitively are more at risk than the big blows.Ē


In the Age of Google, there is no reason to be satisfied with "pretty sure".....

Ok, Milton. Last year, guns and drugs were no big deal. This year, it's concussions. Enough.
RE: RE: RE: RE: He's at risk to miss games due to a concussion  
Milton : 4/9/2018 7:48 pm : link
In comment 13906947 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:

Ok, Milton. Last year, guns and drugs were no big deal. This year, it's concussions. Enough.
What kind of year did Cam Robinson just have? I have no complaints with Evan Engram, but I doubt too many would be regretting the selection of Cam Robinson, either. I guess we can revisit it five or ten years from now.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He's at risk to miss games due to a concussion  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/9/2018 8:10 pm : link
In comment 13907100 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13906947 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:



Ok, Milton. Last year, guns and drugs were no big deal. This year, it's concussions. Enough.

What kind of year did Cam Robinson just have? I have no complaints with Evan Engram, but I doubt too many would be regretting the selection of Cam Robinson, either. I guess we can revisit it five or ten years from now.

It's not that. It's the hijacking of the board with whatever your hard-on of the year is, complete with Boylhart posts to remind us of nothing.

You did it with Robinson, you did it on Yankees threads with Cole, you're doing it on every QB thread this offseason. Do you honestly believe that you can determine an outcome by way of digital volume? If not, can we just have a conversation with you rather than inviting the same repetition?

You're a knowledgeable guy, but you turn into nothing once you're locked onto a particular player, so much so that it's now part of your persona. The shame of it is, we all lose the ability to connect with your football acumen once you've entered your Milton zone.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He's at risk to miss games due to a concussion  
Milton : 4/9/2018 8:50 pm : link
In comment 13907126 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
It's not that. It's the hijacking of the board with whatever your hard-on of the year is, complete with Boylhart posts to remind us of nothing.

You did it with Robinson, you did it on Yankees threads with Cole, you're doing it on every QB thread this offseason. Do you honestly believe that you can determine an outcome by way of digital volume? If not, can we just have a conversation with you rather than inviting the same repetition?

You're a knowledgeable guy, but you turn into nothing once you're locked onto a particular player, so much so that it's now part of your persona. The shame of it is, we all lose the ability to connect with your football acumen once you've entered your Milton zone.
I have to say, you got me to laugh out loud with that last line, but I don't think I'm "hijacking" threads, it's just that when I open a thread and I disagree with a comment, I feel compelled to add my opinion. I probably should show more restraint, since it does get repetitive, but the opposing opinions are equally repetitive, ergo "the cycle of violence" that is BBI during draft season. It's just that this year it went nuclear because the stakes are at an all-time high.
p.s.--"Gerrit Cole Looking Like the One That Got Away" - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He's at risk to miss games due to a concussion  
chopperhatch : 4/10/2018 4:04 am : link
In comment 13907186 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13907126 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


It's not that. It's the hijacking of the board with whatever your hard-on of the year is, complete with Boylhart posts to remind us of nothing.

You did it with Robinson, you did it on Yankees threads with Cole, you're doing it on every QB thread this offseason. Do you honestly believe that you can determine an outcome by way of digital volume? If not, can we just have a conversation with you rather than inviting the same repetition?

You're a knowledgeable guy, but you turn into nothing once you're locked onto a particular player, so much so that it's now part of your persona. The shame of it is, we all lose the ability to connect with your football acumen once you've entered your Milton zone.

I have to say, you got me to laugh out loud with that last line, but I don't think I'm "hijacking" threads, it's just that when I open a thread and I disagree with a comment, I feel compelled to add my opinion. I probably should show more restraint, since it does get repetitive, but the opposing opinions are equally repetitive, ergo "the cycle of violence" that is BBI during draft season. It's just that this year it went nuclear because the stakes are at an all-time high. p.s.--"Gerrit Cole Looking Like the One That Got Away" - ( New Window )


Milton, stop it. Dunk said what I think of you perfectly. I also remember the Gerrit Cole obsession you had/have and it was very similar to this thing you currently have with Rosen. You are completely unobjective at this point.

I pointed to qualified numbers that Darnold put up that not just beat but obliterated Rosen's in college, playing against the same opponents during the same time frame. You pointed to periodicals/analysts that just happened to favor Rosen without any real statiticcal reasoning and completely ignoring that these sites might just be favoring him to generate clicks (yes, even reputable ones). I pointed out that Darnold was built like a horse and cited his durability combining with his ability to be physical from playing linebacker in HS. You pointed out that Rosen was actually bigger than Darnold...horse shit of a come back.

Rosen is the most graceful thrower of the football Ive seen in a while, but that really doesnt mean shit when you think about it.

Ive also even seen you make the argument that Rosen was not being considered the top QB prospect because of (wait for it....) the fact that he was Jewish (a background you admittedly share)!


Your bias has turned you into a poster whose posts I skim thru rather than pay attn to. Your dismissal of Darnold (and anyone else in this class to be honest) is just fucking ignorant. You actually come across as careless where as you used to be thought of as insightful.

Well here are your bottom lines:

1) you apparently are in for a massive disappointment and your reputable sources are wrong because there has been exactly no chatter about the Giants craving Rosen.

2) If Rosen is our pick, you better hope he succeeds massively, because the way you have built up this QB with above avg college career, I would expect Dan Marino.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He's at risk to miss games due to a concussion  
chopperhatch : 4/10/2018 4:08 am : link
In comment 13907186 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13907126 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


It's not that. It's the hijacking of the board with whatever your hard-on of the year is, complete with Boylhart posts to remind us of nothing.

You did it with Robinson, you did it on Yankees threads with Cole, you're doing it on every QB thread this offseason. Do you honestly believe that you can determine an outcome by way of digital volume? If not, can we just have a conversation with you rather than inviting the same repetition?

You're a knowledgeable guy, but you turn into nothing once you're locked onto a particular player, so much so that it's now part of your persona. The shame of it is, we all lose the ability to connect with your football acumen once you've entered your Milton zone.

I have to say, you got me to laugh out loud with that last line, but I don't think I'm "hijacking" threads, it's just that when I open a thread and I disagree with a comment, I feel compelled to add my opinion. I probably should show more restraint, since it does get repetitive, but the opposing opinions are equally repetitive, ergo "the cycle of violence" that is BBI during draft season. It's just that this year it went nuclear because the stakes are at an all-time high. p.s.--"Gerrit Cole Looking Like the One That Got Away" - ( New Window )


And more smugness from the Penn grad who cites 2 starts within the first 2 weeks of a season to defend a point that had holes poked in it based on previous 3 years of performance. Ugh.

What a shitty response to someone calling you out for being a pain in the ass.
chopperhatch  
Milton : 4/10/2018 5:13 am : link
Such hostility. I think you've misrepresented me on several counts, but I'm not gonna go down that "he said, she said" rabbit hole, it's way too time consuming (although I appreciate the time and effort you put into it, so please don't be insulted).

In any case, I think it's time for me to take a break from BBI. I come here for the distraction and the debates can be fun when nobody takes it personally and we all recognize that none of it matters, it's just sports. But when it starts to get personal and people who used to be able to take a joke stop being able to take a joke, it's time for a time out.

But I'll be back before the draft.
No hard feelings.... - ( New Window )
RE: chopperhatch  
chopperhatch : 4/10/2018 6:14 am : link
In comment 13907349 Milton said:
Quote:
Such hostility. I think you've misrepresented me on several counts, but I'm not gonna go down that "he said, she said" rabbit hole, it's way too time consuming (although I appreciate the time and effort you put into it, so please don't be insulted).

In any case, I think it's time for me to take a break from BBI. I come here for the distraction and the debates can be fun when nobody takes it personally and we all recognize that none of it matters, it's just sports. But when it starts to get personal and people who used to be able to take a joke stop being able to take a joke, it's time for a time out.

But I'll be back before the draft. No hard feelings.... - ( New Window )


Oh gawwwwwd. Later dude.
Coming back to Aaron Rodgers for a moment...  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/10/2018 8:14 am : link
Rodgers has missed significant time in two seasons since taking over from Favre. In one of those seasons, 2013, he returned to lead GB to the playoffs with a stirring comeback in Chicago - one of eight consecutive postseason appearances. The Packers finally missed the playoffs in 2017, when they lost seven of ten games with Hundley at QB.

Even with the injuries - which have cost the Packers exactly one season - Rodgers is on a different level than Eli, and has been for a decade. He has done it behind lines that varied from pretty good to awful, often with little or no running game. There have only been a handful of QBs on his level in the history of the game, and none match Rodgersís combination of mobility, accuracy and arm talent. It would take a special brand of loyalty to choose Eli over Rodgers, knowing what they would both become.

As for Rosen, the concern isnít that heíll resemble Aaron Rodgers. Itís that heíll resemble Chris Borland. As Milton pointed out, QBs donít take the pounding other positions do, and Rosen may not actually be any more injury-prone over the course of his NFL career than Darnold or Mayfield.

FWIW, Iíll be happy with any of the top prospects. I just think Rosen would be fun to root for.
Chopper: Have you read Colinís ĎFun with Mocksí post?  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/10/2018 8:21 am : link
If not, I recommend it. The Giants appear to have performed extensive diligence on Rosen. That may signify nothing, but there have been ample indications of serious interest.
RE: Chopper: Have you read Colinís ĎFun with Mocksí post?  
chopperhatch : 4/10/2018 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13907410 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
If not, I recommend it. The Giants appear to have performed extensive diligence on Rosen. That may signify nothing, but there have been ample indications of serious interest.


I havent. But JonC, I think ThatLimerickGuy and maybe even hitdog pretty much said they hadnt heard a peep on Giants interest in him.

I am not against drafting him as I have said. But with some posters, the every day refrain of a player they are all in on one way or another is very tedious. I like reading Milton's posts. But GD had it right. Milton would bring up Rosen in a discussion he either started or didnt and basically shoot down any reasoning as to why he should be our pick. Again, that is fine....the first 4 times he said it. But he is completely dismissive of any kind rational reason as to why Darnold or Allen or Mayfield are better players.

We get it, you like Rosen, Terps hates Beckham and ______ thinks we are fucking morons if we dont draft Barkley.
RE: Rosen  
MotownGIANTS : 4/10/2018 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13905269 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:
Josh Rosen is the best QB in this draft.. if our medical staff oks it we should run to the podium
Big Ben and Rogers missed games would you pass on one of them..
Rosen has that type of potential Imo


Out medical staff signed off on Cedric "Cyclopes" Jones .... 5th overall... IJS
Aikman didn't retire because of concussions  
Go Terps : 4/10/2018 2:26 pm : link
He retired because of his back. He said as much on his last appearance with Francesa.
Aikman also  
UConn4523 : 4/10/2018 2:34 pm : link
had atleast 10 documented concussions and would have retired because of them in 2018. I think itís fair to say he wasnít educated on it then, and thatís being kind. Thereís also no way to know how truthful Aikman is being, I wouldnít put it past him to downplay the effects of his concussions. This has Jerry Jonesí stink all over it, IMO.
The Rosen lobby is on going ; this guy will be on the bench bitching  
TMS : 4/18/2018 6:28 pm : link
for two years or more. then hurt drawing pay for the next two years of his contract till he retires. Buyer beware certainly would. apply here. IMO.
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