To preface I have watched him play some games in college. I will tell you the truth, I do not see what a lot of you guys and the talking heads see. So I looked on YouTube for some scouting reports to hear what people are saying. Maybe I am just taking crazy pills. Personality and locker room lawyer aside, I am not basing it on any of that. I am talking purely as a fan watching a QB.
So I found this video right near the top calling Josh Rosen Overrated. So of course I had to watch it. While he does point out some of the same things I see when I watch Josh I don't agree with his assumptions of Josh's non football activities. I am talking strictly as a QB. He shouldn't have went there.
I will list my concerns and tell me what am I missing?
While he does have a nice release and repetitive throwing motion I find that the receivers do more adjusting to the ball than it being perfectly placed. I don't know but to back up that he is not an overly accurate QB as he is made out to be if you look at his college stats he is a college career 60% passer. The way everybody talks about him you would think he was mid to high 60's.
I noticed too many times when he leaves the pocket bad things happen. He is less accurate there and makes a lot of head scratching throws.
I was watching another scouting report on a CB Isaiah Oliver. Oliver was covering the UCLA WR and when Rosen made the throw it was seriously under thrown. Even Brett Kollmann who was giving his review of the CB stated how poorly thrown the ball was. It was not a back shoulder throw because Brett said you would never throw a back shoulder pass with a high arc.
Another major concern for me is in 3 college seasons he only has one completed playing every game. If you can't stay healthy you are no good to your team.
So I am not trashing the kid, I just want to know purely what makes you so confident in him? Because I just don't see it. He looks like an average QB to me.
Josh Rosen Overrated - (
New Window )
When the season started I loved Darnold but then I started watching Rosen play
I prefer Rosen and here is why
Rosen has a stronger arm and is more accurate
Rosen protects the ball better than Darnold
Rosen makes checks at the line, he calls the plays , he ran a pro style offense , he throws a tight spiral, he is the best college QB I have seen in a long time in play action , he sells the run fake, he has touch , a quick release, he moves and slides in the pocket to buy time, he can run and if you watch his games you will see that he can play a RPO offense
Oh and he throws a beautiful deep pass
What else could you want from qb?
It is one thing to project physical talent but it is another to see game intelligence . The hardest part of the transition to the pros for a QB is their ability to slow the game down and to play fast
Rosen is the only QB in the draft how has demonstrated this innate apptitude
After watching him play he reminds me of a more athletic Peyton Manning
Great post Archer and thanks. I can't say I am warming to him, but maybe I am not as opposed as I was before this thread. I am still concerned about him staying on the field healthy.
Let's trust the scout and out execs, because we really have no say. I love Rosen, but I have been wildly wrong before.
UCLA is 17-13 with Rosen and 1-6 without him
You know JonC, maybe that is what I saw. To me he appeared average. An average QB that hasn't played a full college season more than once.
I am getting some good feedback here that is making me reconsider some of my original thoughts on him but as of right now I like Darnold and Mayfield better.
that's a good point but where he holds the ball is kind of lower and I don't know if the saftey or db would see that. I can't remember what game I was watching but it sticks in my head. It almost seemed like he was counting or timing or something, but it was part of his delivery.
Rosen is a tough player and rather than dump the ball off or throw it away he took some unecessary hits
Rosen would extend plays
Also Rosen took a lot of hits from pressure up the middle.
UCLA interior line play was lacking
I agree and I said for a while if we draft Rosen we better hope that Webb is a good backup.
Mayfield? NFW. He could certainly be a good QB but there are just too many other elements that signal a more likely outcome of being ordinary to below average. That body type, size, and attitude are all pointing the wrong way...in my judgment.
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physically, but it's the concussions and it seemed he didn't raise the play of his team very often that bugs me. He was terrific in the A&M game, but that was the exception.
UCLA is 17-13 with Rosen and 1-6 without him
Neither one is impressive at the college level.
Textbook mechanics in preparing and then delivering the football. And it's really an A to Z process.
Rosen has outstanding footwork getting into the pocket to quickly make his reads. There is no wasted motion going from the center to the pocket. It's a very smooth process versus anybody in this draft, and basically anybody I've seen in years. Looks to be a product of outstanding coaching somewhere along the way; and he's really fine tuned it. Rosen looks like he's just floating in the pocket. He's well ahead of the curve there.
And just watch the throwing motion. There is no wasted motion and no hitch. He quickly gets the ball up to shoulder level, both hands firmly on the ball (but very natural looking, not robotic or mechanical), takes it back with no hitch, and then snaps right through his delivery. The ball doesn't float or wobble. it's a very tight spin that really cut through the air quickly. He can really get it there on a rope or with touch. And all this adds up to the most effective way to fit the ball into the tightest windows. It's really the perfect mix of a lot of hard work and God give talent. To me, he's Peyton Manning but with a better arm and more athleticism (I'm not saying he's got the pelts Manning had at Rocky Top. I'm comparing their outstanding QB fundamentals).
Is Rosen great out of the pocket? No. But he's athletic enough to be a real threat. He never panics and always has he head up looking down the field. The rush does not cause happy feet or anxiety. And those are key attributes.
I'm always surprised that people can't quickly see the skill set of JR. it just jumps off the screen for me.
But I more concerned about the injury history. Red flags there snapping in the wind. It's a hurdle I just can't get comfortable with.
But he's clearly THE most gifted pocket QB in this draft. And it isn't close...
I like Rosen but it is irrelevant
I can only form opinions based upon limited information
I can state that I like a player but I trust that this Giant management will select the best player for the Giants
I like Rosen but it is irrelevant
I can only form opinions based upon limited information
I can state that I like a player but I trust that this Giant management will select the best player for the Giants
I agree 100% Well put Archer
That's where having a Webb to develop actually becomes a good thing.
All of the players we are talking about were great collegiate players
We are splitting hairs when offering opinions
I do not even have a real presence as to whom the Giants should select
I just know that there are players that I like and others that I like less
The predominant amount of great QBs and Super Bowl winning QBs have been pocket passers with exceptional footwork, mechanics and intelligence and a drive to push further. (This is Rosen challenging of his coaches) They read the defense, call plays at the line and deliver the ball to a weakness in the defense with accuracy.
Rosen learned his college playbook in 3 days and pushed his coaches to give him more options for the offense in his sophomore year.
he had to learn 3 different offenses under 3 different OCs.
Footwork and mechanics, etc are not traits your born with. They must be perfected. Rosen has to be an incredible hard worker and dedicated to his craft in order to have this.
You can see this in his play action fake. It is textbook perfect.
people are far overlooking these traits in Rosen and just acting like they all could be learned all so easy. They drool over an 80 pass that could never realistically be completed in a game.
Rosen just doesnt throw the best pass of any QB in this draft. He throws the best pass of any QB since Andrew Luck. That’s the best in 6 drafts.
This is an uncommon QB available here. He should be the 1 pick. The Giants are fortunate that Cleveland appears to be overlooking him for attitude concerns. (Dorsey reference from a Nov article)
Rosen does check off way more boxes than Sanchez, who hardly checked off any, and somehow Jets got bamboozled into drafting him high. But there's also a chance Rosen will get dumped by Eva Longoria because he sucks causing him to buttfumble.
Rosen does check off way more boxes than Sanchez, who hardly checked off any, and somehow Jets got bamboozled into drafting him high. But there's also a chance Rosen will get dumped by Eva Longoria because he sucks causing him to buttfumble.
I think you mean Darnold. He has been cited as "leadership" and IT factor. Not Rosen
You mean displace him like water in his hot tub?
We have all been spoiled by Eli. Not a single prospect will likely live up to his iron-man legacy. I'm not even going to acknowledge the Oakland game last year. Eli is still the iron-man (with and asterisk). Look around the league, nearly every QB has missed a game or more due to injury. It will likely continue regardless of which prospect we end up drafting.
I'm not sure what results you're referring to? UCLA has a awful defense that gave up nearly 300 rush ypg and 35 ppg
How many football games are you gonna win when your D gives up nearly 300 rush yards?
The team is 1-6 without him .. they're a bad football team
What was Eli's college record? What big games did Ole Miss win in the SEC with Eli? Expectations should be with in reason
Just a example but when I watch the Southern Cal game I saw Rosen as the better Qb that lost to a better team
Rosen does check off way more boxes than Sanchez, who hardly checked off any, and somehow Jets got bamboozled into drafting him high. But there's also a chance Rosen will get dumped by Eva Longoria because he sucks causing him to buttfumble.
There are three distinguishing similarities with Rosen and Sanchez: they are right-handed, played in the PAC-12, and their last names are two syllables.
In other words, they are not similar at all as prospects.
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and will displace Eli this summer...
You mean displace him like water in his hot tub?
um...yeah?
Finally, all QBs are subject to injury. It is the rare bird that has a starting streak like Eli or Brett Favre -- and Favre was addicted to painkillers to make it happen. To discount Rosen bc you are afraid of injury is to suggest that you should be watching games of bridge, not football.
USC game was really similar. USC should've won that game by a lot more than they did. I think Rosen was sacked 4 times by half and Darnold hadn't been touched. But he kept them in the game the whole time. They just came up short.
It just reminds me so much of Eli and how he carried Ole Miss.
I agree with this, though they had some decent offensive weapons, that game, and the A@M game in 2016 was also extremely impressive the way he brought his team back into that game against a much more difficult a@m defense, and in a hostile environment. They didn’t get the W, but that game spoke volumes about Rosen.
Wait - you haven't noticed all of the prolific franchise QBs that last decade from Alabama and Ohio State?
I like Rosen's skill set but his injuries and experts opinions of him being like Jay Cutler is a downer.
We have a head coach who is supposed to be a quarterback guru so I am fine with whoever he believes is the best fit for the Giants IF we go qb.
Well the only college QB that picked his team up consistently was Mayfield. Certainly not Darnold nor Allen. I know nothing about scouting QBs, but I can look at a group of players and pick out who seems to be the best, and Rosen looks the best.
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In comment 13906715 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Could not agree more.
And with all that being said Josh is still a 60% passer.
So easy to bash people on here without pointing out a game I should look at or some plays. I am asking what am I missing? I stated what I see. Receivers making adjustments more than I like to see. I don't see perfectly thrown balls with laser guided accuracy. I see an average QB that gets streaky. Maybe he is a lot like Eli in the way he plays. He sure as hell won't be as durable.
SO he has over a 60% completion rate yet for a portion of those throws you saw receivers making adjustments more than any other? Did you see every one of his throws vs the others you saw each and every one of their trows too?
The point is I doubt your expertise. I'm going with the stats.
1-- Thus it seems to me his 60%+ accuracy is real.
2-- He has a strong arm.
3-- He's comfortable in the pocket.
4-- His hand size is decent. The takeaway is that he doesn't have small hands.
5-- His team was awful without him. I think they were 1-7?
Finally, all QBs are subject to injury. It is the rare bird that has a starting streak like Eli or Brett Favre -- and Favre was addicted to painkillers to make it happen. To discount Rosen bc you are afraid of injury is to suggest that you should be watching games of bridge, not football.
Agreed with all points but that Oklahoma comment. Mayfield was the best college quarterback last year. He was more accurate than Rosen. Neither guy was winning that team a championship because their defense was atrocious. Clearly based off this post (and others, i’ll admit the guy is my draft crush) i really like Mayfield...that said, if Rosen can stay healthy i see him being phenomenal. Mayfield’s cockiness and Rosen’s personality are not concerns provided they play well. Plenty of assholes play quarterback, but if you ball and you win no one says a word.
He's easy on the eyes in the pocket, I think that's also misleading to some when you watch him.
We shall see. I don't think the Giants pick him.
He's easy on the eyes in the pocket, I think that's also misleading to some when you watch him.
We shall see. I don't think the Giants pick him.
Truth. His frame was bigger than expected at the combine. He is bigger than Darnold(surprised). I agree about the medicals. I managed a 3 physician practice for 11 years. IDGAF about our opinion of his medicala. We collectively do not know shit. If the Giants' doctors give him a pass after reviewing his medicals, I am good. None of us have actually seen his medicals nor do we have the expertise to evaluate them properly.
But we do know Rosen’s had multiple concussions - right? And in this day and age that’s a problem. The degree to which it’s a problem we don’t know. But you’d better be a sure as you can be because that would be a big miss on an investment designed to last for at least ten years.
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In comment 13907318 Joey in VA said:
Truth. His frame was bigger than expected at the combine. He is bigger than Darnold(surprised). I agree about the medicals. I managed a 3 physician practice for 11 years. IDGAF about our opinion of his medicala. We collectively do not know shit. If the Giants' doctors give him a pass after reviewing his medicals, I am good. None of us have actually seen his medicals nor do we have the expertise to evaluate them properly.
But we do know Rosen’s had multiple concussions - right? And in this day and age that’s a problem. The degree to which it’s a problem we don’t know. But you’d better be a sure as you can be because that would be a big miss on an investment designed to last for at least ten years.
I'm not one to swear by the talking heads, but none of the professionals seem remotely as concerned as the people here about his concussions. You get a full medical workup as part of the draft process, and nothing, not even rumors of questions about his health came from it. His intelligence as a 'negative' has been a far more talked about issue.