The most vital position to sustain a culture of winning football for an era? I keep seeing dumb people claim that getting the Bills to give us those picks for players who might be starters to reserves and bust and pass on a qb at #2 that will bridge the gap between Eli and the next Dave brown era.
I do not want to hear one beep about Davis Freaking Webb and his Youtube clips...If you are a smart football person you know that a new gm,hc combo want their own stamp on the team that starts with the QB they draft. Davis Webb is a Jerry pick and now all of a sudden you guys want to see him get a shot when all you do is bash the Jerry picks?
There is nothing outside of the Bills given us 4 #1 pick and 2 second round picks that I will consider moving for that #2 pick
You have no team unless you have the QB position figured out
I do not want to hear Nick Foles, Case Keenum types can win
Those are short samples that do not translate for long term success.
The Giants will more than likely not sniff the top 5 of the draft for the next decade and we will have to trade a kings ransom to move up in the future that is if a team is dumb enough to not take a qb if they need one.
This Giants team is not a win now team, you need to stop thinking that it is because is not. The Giants need to start building for the future with the second pick and use the other picks to build the depth.
Stop trying to extend Eli's carrer and perception that Daivs Webb is going to be as good or better than the 4 this year
Exactly.
GOOD!!!!!
They may not.
But you don't seem to be able to accept that possibility.
They may. They may not.
Link - ( New Window )
If the giants feel a franchise qb is available at #2 then they should take him.
I do not want to hear one beep about Davis Freaking Webb and his Youtube clips...If you are a smart football person you know that a new gm,hc combo want their own stamp on the team that starts with the QB they draft. Davis Webb is a Jerry pick and now all of a sudden you guys want to see him get a shot when all you do is bash the Jerry picks?
There is nothing outside of the Bills given us 4 #1 pick and 2 second round picks that I will consider moving for that #2 pick
Firstly, NONE OF US know anything about what the Giants think of Webb moving forward. Also, do many here NOT get their opinions off of YouTube clips as it pertains to the current crop of potential QBs who are expected to go high?
The issue is, do you need to pick that QB with a top 5 (or 10, or whatever) draft pick when you have many other needs at critical positions.
My answer, having looked at the data and having posted it here many times, is, no, you can get a 10-year franchise QB anywhere in the draft, and that who does the picking is much, MUCH more important than where you pick.
NYSports1 said "I do not want to hear Nick Foles, Case Keenum types can win"
OK. What about Joe Montana? Could he win? What about Aaron Rodgers? Can he win? Can Drew Brees win? Can Russell Wilson win?
I won't even mention Giselle Bundchen's husband, because that would be unfair.
They may not.
But you don't seem to be able to accept that possibility.
They may. They may not.
This, and I think Shurmur and DG are trying to balance win now and the future. Coming around to the Chubb as the more likely pick if Darnold is gone.
You must be a genius!
Praise the Lord!
But do not force it.
It's like...a creepy obsession.
They may not.
But you don't seem to be able to accept that possibility.
They may. They may not.
THANK YOU!!
But do not force it.
If we believe in Gettleman's ability to evaluate college talent we should be arming him with as many picks as possible at every available opportunity.
But do not force it.
I think the issue is that a lot of people don’t want a QB regardless. Looking forward to your QB reviews Sy, when can we expect them? Thank you for all the time you take with sharing your grades.
They may not.
But you don't seem to be able to accept that possibility.
They may. They may not.
Why is this so hard to grasp? You don't just pick a guy at 2 because he has QB next to his name. It's that simple. These personnel guys get to work these guys out privately and if they don't see or hear what they like they aren't just going to take them because that's where good QB's are picked. It's really not that difficult.
The recent grading on all of these quarterbacks is underwhelming at best - Darnold is the highest grade, but it is miles below Andrew Luck levels. So unless Gettleman sees something the scouting world is missing, there is no reason to take this extraordinary risk now... Especially if the opportunity cost is a player like Barkley or a haul of picks like the Buffalo trade current being discussed on BBI...
Now obviously, if none of these QBs are with a top ten pick, then you absolutely benefit by trading out of the top ten and have someone else misguidedly give up their picks to move into the top ten...
I just have a tough time thinking that there are not several QBs in this class that have top ten value.
The issue is, do you need to pick that QB with a top 5 (or 10, or whatever) draft pick when you have many other needs at critical positions.
My answer, having looked at the data and having posted it here many times, is, no, you can get a 10-year franchise QB anywhere in the draft, and that who does the picking is much, MUCH more important than where you pick.
NYSports1 said "I do not want to hear Nick Foles, Case Keenum types can win"
OK. What about Joe Montana? Could he win? What about Aaron Rodgers? Can he win? Can Drew Brees win? Can Russell Wilson win?
I won't even mention Giselle Bundchen's husband, because that would be unfair.
Jim in North Haverbrook.
THRILL LOVES YOUR STYLE BROOOOOO.
You crunched the data! Looked at the results. Difference-making QBs can be found anywhere in the draft. See? Here's 6 guys since 1979. YOU SEE?? I rest my case!
The problem: by definition, QBs outside the 1st round have to be flawed. Otherwise multiple teams wouldn't pass on them multiple times.
Stated differently, undervalued future-successful QBs exist, but they are not easy to find!
if The Org sees the next Joe Montana, they have to assume that all 31 other teams have missed on their eval. Otherwise, wtf are they doing waiting until the 3rd round to pick him? Letting another smart team team swoop in and steal the future HOF!!
So here's your assignment. You declared yourself the data guy. Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24th overall. Let's use that as the starting point in our data set. List all the QBs drafted after pick 24. Start in 1979, the year Joe Montana was picked. Look at that, Thrill is generously allowing your to begin your research with two GOATs. Altogether, almost 40 years worth of QB draft classes. Then, go ahead and identify all the successful QBs (i.e.multi-year starters) that were outside the top-23. Divide the number of success stories into the total number of QBs drafted and ...dear god... we have a probability!
If the probability of finding a good QB outside the top-23 is greater than 10%, The Thrill Ride will personally (through an assistant) buy you lunch at your favorite italian restaurant (Sbarro's?).
"Who does the picking"
This too is a critical point. Smart decision-makers find good players. Let's quickly look at the non-1st round QBs drafted by NYG while Gettleman was an exec:
Jesse Palmer
Andre Woodson
Rhett Bomar
NYG also drafted Ryan Nassib three months after Gettleman left for Carolina.
What about the best in the biz, Belichick? He found Brady, didn't he? And also Jimmy G! What other QBs has Belichick picked?
Jacoby Brisset
RYan Mallet
Zac Robinson
Kevin O'Connell
Matt Cassell
Kliff Kingsbury
Rohan Davey
Not exactly a great batting average, even for the best of the best.
LOL!
which ones are? Only the ones doing the work on them have the greatest idea of who or whom.
Hoping the giants can hit on that franchise QB, if it is even in their thinking, at 2.
which ones are? Only the ones doing the work on them have the greatest idea of who or whom.
Hoping the giants can hit on that franchise QB, if it is even in their thinking, at 2.
Is it so hard for you to understand that?
Sit back, relax and allow DG to speak to us fans post draft to find out their thinking. I trust them more than you or I.
If they want to win now, why did they take on 15 million in dead money for JPP? That is clearly a move to
Clear FUTURE cap space
The issue is, do you need to pick that QB with a top 5 (or 10, or whatever) draft pick when you have many other needs at critical positions.
My answer, having looked at the data and having posted it here many times, is, no, you can get a 10-year franchise QB anywhere in the draft, and that who does the picking is much, MUCH more important than where you pick.
NYSports1 said "I do not want to hear Nick Foles, Case Keenum types can win"
OK. What about Joe Montana? Could he win? What about Aaron Rodgers? Can he win? Can Drew Brees win? Can Russell Wilson win?
I won't even mention Giselle Bundchen's husband, because that would be unfair.
Kurt freaking Warner got drafted out of a grocery store. How bout that?
Those are all the same moves you'd make if you were about to draft a QB.
What you wouldn't do is change defensive schemes; trade JPP and eat a large cap hit this year in the process (in exchange for cap space next year); and cut DRC in the final year of a very reasonable contract.
I'd say the evidence is slightly more in favor of a protracted (at least compared to your expectations) rebuild. You don't agree with him. But there's nothing to suggest that the Giants agree with you.
The issue is, do you need to pick that QB with a top 5 (or 10, or whatever) draft pick when you have many other needs at critical positions.
My answer, having looked at the data and having posted it here many times, is, no, you can get a 10-year franchise QB anywhere in the draft, and that who does the picking is much, MUCH more important than where you pick.
NYSports1 said "I do not want to hear Nick Foles, Case Keenum types can win"
OK. What about Joe Montana? Could he win? What about Aaron Rodgers? Can he win? Can Drew Brees win? Can Russell Wilson win?
I won't even mention Giselle Bundchen's husband, because that would be unfair.
Your data has been flawed despite your repeated attempts to present it. You continue to ignore the fact that there are 5x as many QBs drafted outside the first round than within. So why don't we talk about the percentage of failures from the 2nd round on?
You won't respond, because you never do, but you're still wrong. So just sit there and be wrong. But please, stop polluting threads with your faulty data analysis.
Nelson or Chubb
Two #2 picks
One #3 pick
and a 2019 #1?
Also, as I recall, Nick Foles was a winning superbowl QB. Case Keenum got to the NFC Championship.
Nelson or Chubb
Two #2 picks
One #3 pick
and a 2019 #1?
Also, as I recall, Nick Foles was a winning superbowl QB. Case Keenum got to the NFC Championship.
Would you trade Carson Wentz for the following:
Chance Warmack or Dion Jordan (or Trent Richardson)
Marvin Austin and Reuben Randle
Damontre Moore
And Eli Apple (or Ereck Flowers)?
Also, as I recall, Carson Wentz was recently the #2 pick in the draft.
How does anyone not realize how easy it is to work this argument both ways?
Quote:
Duh! Obviously!
The issue is, do you need to pick that QB with a top 5 (or 10, or whatever) draft pick when you have many other needs at critical positions.
My answer, having looked at the data and having posted it here many times, is, no, you can get a 10-year franchise QB anywhere in the draft, and that who does the picking is much, MUCH more important than where you pick.
NYSports1 said "I do not want to hear Nick Foles, Case Keenum types can win"
OK. What about Joe Montana? Could he win? What about Aaron Rodgers? Can he win? Can Drew Brees win? Can Russell Wilson win?
I won't even mention Giselle Bundchen's husband, because that would be unfair.
Jim in North Haverbrook.
THRILL LOVES YOUR STYLE BROOOOOO.
You crunched the data! Looked at the results. Difference-making QBs can be found anywhere in the draft. See? Here's 6 guys since 1979. YOU SEE?? I rest my case!
The problem: by definition, QBs outside the 1st round have to be flawed. Otherwise multiple teams wouldn't pass on them multiple times.
Stated differently, undervalued future-successful QBs exist, but they are not easy to find!
if The Org sees the next Joe Montana, they have to assume that all 31 other teams have missed on their eval. Otherwise, wtf are they doing waiting until the 3rd round to pick him? Letting another smart team team swoop in and steal the future HOF!!
So here's your assignment. You declared yourself the data guy. Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24th overall. Let's use that as the starting point in our data set. List all the QBs drafted after pick 24. Start in 1979, the year Joe Montana was picked. Look at that, Thrill is generously allowing your to begin your research with two GOATs. Altogether, almost 40 years worth of QB draft classes. Then, go ahead and identify all the successful QBs (i.e.multi-year starters) that were outside the top-23. Divide the number of success stories into the total number of QBs drafted and ...dear god... we have a probability!
If the probability of finding a good QB outside the top-23 is greater than 10%, The Thrill Ride will personally (through an assistant) buy you lunch at your favorite italian restaurant (Sbarro's?).
"Who does the picking"
This too is a critical point. Smart decision-makers find good players. Let's quickly look at the non-1st round QBs drafted by NYG while Gettleman was an exec:
Jesse Palmer
Andre Woodson
Rhett Bomar
NYG also drafted Ryan Nassib three months after Gettleman left for Carolina.
What about the best in the biz, Belichick? He found Brady, didn't he? And also Jimmy G! What other QBs has Belichick picked?
Jacoby Brisset
RYan Mallet
Zac Robinson
Kevin O'Connell
Matt Cassell
Kliff Kingsbury
Rohan Davey
Not exactly a great batting average, even for the best of the best.
well said
Tim Couch
Akili Smith
That bust that went to Oakland
Jeff George
Ryan Leaf
Etc etc...
Some make it sound like it's a given picking QB @2 will be successful....it's not.
4 top guys....will all be studs like Eli, Rivers, Ben year?
No one knows for sure
Those were the two best QB's to come out of the 1981 draft (neither in round 1)
Giants could have deemed Simms wasn't going to work and gone with Rich Campbell the first quarterback off the board at 6 (Dave Wilson went to the Saints in the supplemental draft in round 1)
I get it - different time - 13 RB's drafted in the first two rounds that year etc etc - but I'll take the "generational talent" any time. And that guy sure seems to be Barkley.
But I hardly view that as a commitment to win now at the expense of the future.
Those moves will have no bearing on their decision to draft a quarterback.
I m pretty convinced they will, the position is too important and the value too great for them to pass on this opportunity.