The only guy who has an argument with Hopkins, IMO, is Brown. They're a step and a half ahead of everybody else.
And hitting on WR picks is easier now than its ever been. College football is producing them all over the place. It's a bad position to spend at, especially for a guy that produces as little as Landry.
average the past three years which include a rediculous, historical 2015 season of 136/1871/8...
Rec 102
Yrds 1,575
TD 6
Not saying Landry is even a sniff at Julio in terms of talent, but really the only stat that is different is the yards, which is attributed by Jones ability on the deep ball and Landry's lack thereof.
The only guy who has an argument with Hopkins, IMO, is Brown. They're a step and a half ahead of everybody else.
And hitting on WR picks is easier now than its ever been. College football is producing them all over the place. It's a bad position to spend at, especially for a guy that produces as little as Landry.
Easier than it's ever been...
Here are the top 10 WR's taken in the last draft.
Corey Davis
John Ross
Mike Williams
JuJu Smith-Shuster
Carlos Henderson
Zay Jones
Curtis Samuel
Josh Reynolds
Cooper Kupp
Ryan Switzer
Almost every single one of those guys is garbage or did absolutely nothing this year. Kupp and Smith-Schuster were basically the only two who had any significant impact.
The other difference is the entire defense is trying to stop him. He gets extra attention in EVERY game. He tilts the field in your favor just because of that.
If you have an elite and rare player like Brown you win by getting him the ball.
You don't win by sending it to a player like Landry.
You just told me tons of targets don't lead to winning football - I provided an example that directly debunks that and you just laugh it off because the player is great. LOL.
Mike Thomas was targeted 150 times. Saints had an excellent year. Losing football, though...
And they're already both better players than Landry!
Flip Cooper Kupp and Jarvis Landry - Landry would be even better in LA. Kupp would be significantly worse in Miami with Jay Cutler slinging him the ball.
He can still turn things around, but he's closer to a bust than anything remotely approaching a starting WR. He catches 40% of his targets. Landry's up around 70%. So even if you threw 150 bubble screens to Coleman, you're offense would suck since 3 out of 5 would be incomplete (or picked)! At least Landry keeps the chains moving.
I have made a point to watch Dolphins games because he puts up numbers but he's not the least bit impactful from what I see. He's bang average but somehow ridiculously well paid like a superstar. I don't think he's any great shakes but I have a rough eye for WRs.
RE: I know 1 guy who is happy about it though: Odell Beckham, Jr.
And this is exactly the issue... Cleveland just screwed up the market and I am sure Mara and Gettleman are livid... Disregard my optimism that Giants reach agreement with Odell anytime soon...
Thomas is a matchup problem and can dominate. You have to roll coverage to help. Unlike Landry, he can get off press. He does a lot more for your team.
He also isn't catching 3 yard hooks all game while losing football games is he?
in 2017: 44.6% of his 112 catches came within three yards of the LOS, and 20.5% were at, or behind the LOS.
That impresses you? Fine.
The guy is limited. He can't go outside. They run him through traffic and move him around to throw him 3 yard passes. It didn't work for them.
Send the ball to a JAG like Landry and it leads to catches for the player and losing football.
Outside of adding Landry, I think CLE is moving in the right direction. If they get the QB right, they will start winning very soon and it won't be about Landry.
Thomas had less than 1 fewer target per game than Brown - I didn't exactly need to dip down very far to get to him.
Yes, he's a more versatile WR than Landry and does more and is better.
But the idea that Landry is going to be the 4th option in Cleveland after the contract they just gave him or that he's "JAG" is a joke. It's gross hyperbole.
I also see that you conveniently focused on 2017 when he had terrible QB play but no mention of 2016 when he was at 12 YPR (which is exactly where your man Corey Coleman is sitting right now with a much worse catch% and inability to stay healthy)
2017 was the worst YPR year of his career thus far - probably not a coincidence.
You guys are making it sound like you can just throw Roger Lewis Jr a football 150 times a season and he'll put up top 10 numbers. I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that...
"He catches 40% of his targets. Landry's up around 70%."
Coleman hasn't done shit and there's no way he's ahead of Landry on the depth chart. Clearly the Browns agree or they: a) wouldn't have traded for Landry, and b) wouldn't have given him this extension.
I do agree that Landry is overrated and not worth anything close to $15M per, but Coleman has been below replacement level to date assuming he can even get on the field.
Landry = Edelman
They certainly have value to a team, though not at anywhere close to $15M per.
I didn't say that. You're the one dismissing QB play as a rationale for Landry's poor 2017 and then you turned around and highlighted it as an excuse for Coleman.
All much better than anything in CLE. Its been a revolving door of garbage at the position.
Coleman's biggest hurdle has been staying healthy. That may never happen. I have no idea. But the guy is a tough matchup for NFL CBs. If he can stay on the field and sees NFL starting quality QB he can help a team.
We'll see.
But the Coleman thing has nothing to do with Landry being severely overrated.
The QB crew in CLE the past 2 years is one of the worst collections the NFL has ever seen. Ever. Terrible talent combined with no experience. Thats what they had.
Tannehill, Cutler and Moore? Just for starters, they know what they are doing. They've been in the league a while which is an enormous difference to anything CLE had.
And this is where I think you are completely wrong.
Landry is no doubt overpaid, won't argue that. But Edelman isn't shit outside of NE. He isn't fast enough, he isn't big enough, and he's been too injured.
I will concede that none of us knows what Edelman will be now, coming off that injury. But prior to that he was a huge part of two championship teams in three years...in one of those playoff games he threw a crucial touchdown pass.
The "he's nothing outside of New England" qualifier that keeps being repeated on this board about everyone that isn't Belichick and Brady is daft.
So we're not allowed to mention the difference between playing with Tom Brady your entire career and the fact that Landry has had Tannehill and a lot of trash?
Edelman misses games every year. He's made it through a full season @ WR two times in his career. Missed all of 2017.
in our own words during the 2017 playoffs you said the Patriots have the best WR corps in football.
So, Amendola leaving should tell us a lot about how right or wrong you are. Edelman, definitely better than Amendola, still benefits incredibly from playing in NE. If Edelman left NE i'm almost certain he'd be nothing more than an average slot WR.
For once I'd love you to use examples from other teams but you never do. We know why, because other teams don't have BB and Brady so the argument would suck.
with the GOAT QB and coach and the biggest mismatch in the game (Gronk) are nearly identical to Landry's stats with Ryan Tannehill. So in what way is he a better WR? Clearly his superior performance should show up somewhere...
If you want to say Edelman is/was a much better value, I'd completely agree. But don't give me garbage about how he's a 'much tougher cover' for defenses when the stats show otherwise. If he's so tough to cover, why don't his numbers reflect that?
Edlemans stats playing with Brady are similar to Landry with Cutler/Tannehill?
OK, So whats the point?
Oh....wait...one guy plays on a winning team and proven he can be an impact player in the playoffs? This player is also a much better athlete and tougher guy to cover.
And hitting on WR picks is easier now than its ever been. College football is producing them all over the place. It's a bad position to spend at, especially for a guy that produces as little as Landry.
Come on. The league is full of guys capable of it. They just don't see the targets because that doesn't lead to winning football.
Right, the Steelers didn't just win 13 games throwing the ball to Brown 163 times.
And how much did we miss him? Zero.
Rec 102
Yrds 1,575
TD 6
Not saying Landry is even a sniff at Julio in terms of talent, but really the only stat that is different is the yards, which is attributed by Jones ability on the deep ball and Landry's lack thereof.
Landry doesn't
It is night and day between the players.
If you have an elite and rare player like Brown you win by getting him the ball.
You don't win by sending it to a player like Landry.
And hitting on WR picks is easier now than its ever been. College football is producing them all over the place. It's a bad position to spend at, especially for a guy that produces as little as Landry.
Easier than it's ever been...
Here are the top 10 WR's taken in the last draft.
Corey Davis
John Ross
Mike Williams
JuJu Smith-Shuster
Carlos Henderson
Zay Jones
Curtis Samuel
Josh Reynolds
Cooper Kupp
Ryan Switzer
Almost every single one of those guys is garbage or did absolutely nothing this year. Kupp and Smith-Schuster were basically the only two who had any significant impact.
Landry doesn't.
Its not close despite your number of catches
Landry doesn't
It is night and day between the players.
If you have an elite and rare player like Brown you win by getting him the ball.
You don't win by sending it to a player like Landry.
You just told me tons of targets don't lead to winning football - I provided an example that directly debunks that and you just laugh it off because the player is great. LOL.
Mike Thomas was targeted 150 times. Saints had an excellent year. Losing football, though...
Cooper Kupp is better than Jarvis Landry?
Or did he have a capable QB, MVP caliber RB taking all the attention off of him and much better team around him?
He is absolutely not better than Landry. Neither is Smith-Schuster.
And how much did we miss him? Zero.
Steve Smith was never the same after the injury.
We didn't miss him because we lucked into Cruz.
Quote:
I was horrified when he went to Philly.
And how much did we miss him? Zero.
Steve Smith was never the same after the injury.
We didn't miss him because we lucked into Cruz.
This.
We didn't miss Smith because Cruz was better.
Brandon Stokley was the guy we were trying to shoehorn into Smith's spot before Cruz broke out.
You think we still wouldn't have missed Smith without Cruz?
Easily.
And this is exactly the issue... Cleveland just screwed up the market and I am sure Mara and Gettleman are livid... Disregard my optimism that Giants reach agreement with Odell anytime soon...
OK.
Again what is the difference?
Thomas is a matchup problem and can dominate. You have to roll coverage to help. Unlike Landry, he can get off press. He does a lot more for your team.
He also isn't catching 3 yard hooks all game while losing football games is he?
in 2017: 44.6% of his 112 catches came within three yards of the LOS, and 20.5% were at, or behind the LOS.
That impresses you? Fine.
The guy is limited. He can't go outside. They run him through traffic and move him around to throw him 3 yard passes. It didn't work for them.
Send the ball to a JAG like Landry and it leads to catches for the player and losing football.
Outside of adding Landry, I think CLE is moving in the right direction. If they get the QB right, they will start winning very soon and it won't be about Landry.
You will see a severe drop in his "production".
Yes, he's a more versatile WR than Landry and does more and is better.
But the idea that Landry is going to be the 4th option in Cleveland after the contract they just gave him or that he's "JAG" is a joke. It's gross hyperbole.
I also see that you conveniently focused on 2017 when he had terrible QB play but no mention of 2016 when he was at 12 YPR (which is exactly where your man Corey Coleman is sitting right now with a much worse catch% and inability to stay healthy)
2017 was the worst YPR year of his career thus far - probably not a coincidence.
You guys are making it sound like you can just throw Roger Lewis Jr a football 150 times a season and he'll put up top 10 numbers. I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that...
Coleman, when healthy, is a guy who can get wide open on an NFL field. Injuries and QB play have certainly been an issue.
He may bust. We'll see.
My bet is he won't and if he can stay on the field will do more for CLE than Landry.
Coleman hasn't done shit and there's no way he's ahead of Landry on the depth chart. Clearly the Browns agree or they: a) wouldn't have traded for Landry, and b) wouldn't have given him this extension.
I do agree that Landry is overrated and not worth anything close to $15M per, but Coleman has been below replacement level to date assuming he can even get on the field.
Landry = Edelman
They certainly have value to a team, though not at anywhere close to $15M per.
Thomas is on a whole different level. It's not close and a useless comparison.
Uf they want to win games, the gameplan in CLE will not focus on him. If they get Barkley, Landry drops even further on the list.
I'll stick with Landry as the 4th option and cut before year 3.
You win.
You win.
I didn't say that. You're the one dismissing QB play as a rationale for Landry's poor 2017 and then you turned around and highlighted it as an excuse for Coleman.
Coleman's biggest hurdle has been staying healthy. That may never happen. I have no idea. But the guy is a tough matchup for NFL CBs. If he can stay on the field and sees NFL starting quality QB he can help a team.
We'll see.
But the Coleman thing has nothing to do with Landry being severely overrated.
Tannehill, Cutler and Moore? Just for starters, they know what they are doing. They've been in the league a while which is an enormous difference to anything CLE had.
And this is where I think you are completely wrong.
Landry is no doubt overpaid, won't argue that. But Edelman isn't shit outside of NE. He isn't fast enough, he isn't big enough, and he's been too injured.
Your Pats blinders are absolutely hysterical.
Wrong.
2016:
Landry - 94/1136/4 - 12.1 YPR, 71.8 catch%
Edelman - 98/1106/3 - 11.3 YPR, 61.6 catch%
If we're talking about value relative to their contracts, I agree completely. Ignoring the contracts though, Landry > Edelman.
Landry has a career 10.1 YPR, Edelman is at 10.7.
Not close? LOL.
That was my point from the start.
It's too much money for Landry but when people start calling him a "JAG" or say that he doesn't do anything but catch bubble screens it gets silly.
He does more than that.
Landry: 6.3 rec, 63.1 yds, 0.3 TDs
How is Edelman better?
Landry: 6.3 rec, 63.1 yds, 0.3 TDs
How is Edelman better?
He's not - he just plays for the Patriots.
Landry would be better if they traded places.
He's another in a long list of guys who can do a lot more than Landry.
I will concede that none of us knows what Edelman will be now, coming off that injury. But prior to that he was a huge part of two championship teams in three years...in one of those playoff games he threw a crucial touchdown pass.
The "he's nothing outside of New England" qualifier that keeps being repeated on this board about everyone that isn't Belichick and Brady is daft.
He's another in a long list of guys who can do a lot more than Landry.
Again, the Patriots. Lets take a poll on how well Amendola does this year.
Take your pick and he runs past Landry
Edelman misses games every year. He's made it through a full season @ WR two times in his career. Missed all of 2017.
Landry has yet to miss a game.
Can't be better if you don't play.
But you're wrong if you think Landry has anything on him.
Just athletically, Edleman is far superior.
So, Amendola leaving should tell us a lot about how right or wrong you are. Edelman, definitely better than Amendola, still benefits incredibly from playing in NE. If Edelman left NE i'm almost certain he'd be nothing more than an average slot WR.
For once I'd love you to use examples from other teams but you never do. We know why, because other teams don't have BB and Brady so the argument would suck.
If you want to say Edelman is/was a much better value, I'd completely agree. But don't give me garbage about how he's a 'much tougher cover' for defenses when the stats show otherwise. If he's so tough to cover, why don't his numbers reflect that?
Terps seems to think it's not worth mentioning.
But you're wrong if you think Landry has anything on him.
Just athletically, Edleman is far superior.
Ohh yeah, just a little boost. That's all.
OK, So whats the point?
Oh....wait...one guy plays on a winning team and proven he can be an impact player in the playoffs? This player is also a much better athlete and tougher guy to cover.
Thanks.