RT @LeadingNFL: BREAKING: Seattle Seahawks postponed workout for QB Colin Kaepernick after he decline to stop kneeling next season. (via @AdamSchefter)
Kaep still does not understand by doing what he is doing (kneeling during National Anthem), that he may have killed his career. THIS IS NOT POLITICAL. NFL team owners are no different than any other business owner. If what he is doing may bring bad press or bad reputation to your business you have every right not to hire them. It is your money on the line. While I support the cause, poor choice of platform. With all the money these guys make, how about paying for a PSA and make your voice heard. If I were an NFL owner I would not want him on my team either.
but if he stops trying his movement loses steam. If he gets a contract he gets money + the public spotlight for his cause. If he gets no contract he can continue to beat the drum of being blackballed due to his cause.
Do not show the players on the sidelines. Show a tight picture of whoever is singing or the flag or both. If no one sees it, did it happen? The players get to kneel if they want and the people in the stadium see it, so it is a protest. No one is stopping them, their right to protest is preserved and people who just want to watch football on Sunday and not have their head explode because of a kneeling player get their wish too. Why not that?
Or better yet... just leave the teams in the locker room like they used to do!
MAKING a person stand for the National Anthem is about the most UNAmerican thing I can think of... and yet that's exactly what most here and fans of the NFL that have a problem with the kneeling want... but... funny enough... most of the military guys I know and have heard from support the kneeling. Go figure.
Great posts in this thread, they just ring of common sense.
I don’t understand why people get so bent out of shape because some guys kneel to bring attention to a cause they want to bring to the forefront. God forbid someone different from you has a voice and wants to take a stand for something. And yes, the owners have the right to deny them employment. The players who kneel have repeatedly stated their reasons for doing so, and also the meaning behind it (i.e. not doing it to disrespect the flag, the military, etc.). Drawing attention to their cause can only help bring it to light for those people that are typically not impacted by these issues, thus getting more people to assist and help out.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't see why anyone would deny Â
What's more, I support his cause, that being police violence and biased sentencing directed toward black men. What's more, I think the teams avoiding him are cowards and would be better served if they signed him and addressed a legitimate important issue in our society.
CK's protest is a legitimate concern. I know some of you want to keep politics out of football, but is the kneeling really such a hardship for you when compared to black men not being able to drive a nice car in a white neighborhood? He is inserting himself into your Sunday, and I know some of you don't like that, but he is inserting himself because he has the opportunity and forum to do so. If he was some black guy and not an NFL QB, nobody would listen, which is precisely the point.
No one is denying him his right to express himself. What many people seem to forget is that playing football is a JOB. What would happen if you or I went to work and protested about something that has nothing to do with our jobs while we were being paid to do that job? I don't know about you, but I would be told to stop immediately and get back to work, the work I m being paid to do. If I choose not to do so, I would be looking for a new job.
When has standing for the national anthem been a required part of the job description for an NFL player?
This has been part of the NFL game operations manual for a long time. Regardless, any member organization can make employee policy at any time, subject to change and at their discretion. This is work, it's business, it's companies and employees. It has nothing to do with rights, freedoms, or social justice and causes. Nobody is stopping Kaepernick or anyone else from taking whatever political stance they want or speaking about whatever cause or issue they want. They are stopping them from doing it as a member of their football organization.
I'm just a random white guy, but I think CK is representing the very best traditions of our society. You can talk all you want about the rights of employers and all that, and I would agree, but they are on the wrong side of history.
I have a suggestion...why don't we listen to what these players are trying to tell us and deal with the inequalities that actually exist and affect their lives and the lives of their families.
to kneel I simply think its getting old and hed be more productive for his cause by venturing into other areas. He should start by hiring a publicist and perhaps penning an editorial for a major paper.
throwing your career and losing tens of millions of dollars as a win/win, so be it. To me that is a lose/lose. Pick a better platform to voice your opinion. You are a prominent athlete, your point can be made in other ways that will get the publics attention.
throwing your career and losing tens of millions of dollars as a win/win, so be it. To me that is a lose/lose. Pick a better platform to voice your opinion. You are a prominent athlete, your point can be made in other ways that will get the publics attention.
Do not show the players on the sidelines. Show a tight picture of whoever is singing or the flag or both. If no one sees it, did it happen? The players get to kneel if they want and the people in the stadium see it, so it is a protest. No one is stopping them, their right to protest is preserved and people who just want to watch football on Sunday and not have their head explode because of a kneeling player get their wish too. Why not that?
Or better yet... just leave the teams in the locker room like they used to do!
MAKING a person stand for the National Anthem is about the most UNAmerican thing I can think of... and yet that's exactly what most here and fans of the NFL that have a problem with the kneeling want... but... funny enough... most of the military guys I know and have heard from support the kneeling. Go figure.
Great posts in this thread, they just ring of common sense.
I don’t understand why people get so bent out of shape because some guys kneel to bring attention to a cause they want to bring to the forefront. God forbid someone different from you has a voice and wants to take a stand for something. And yes, the owners have the right to deny them employment. The players who kneel have repeatedly stated their reasons for doing so, and also the meaning behind it (i.e. not doing it to disrespect the flag, the military, etc.). Drawing attention to their cause can only help bring it to light for those people that are typically not impacted by these issues, thus getting more people to assist and help out.
The owners know that people have stopped watching the games due to this issue. No moral compass. No patriotic thought process. Just the facts, ratings are down and they have feedback it's at least partially due to the protests.
The NFL is a business and the protests have hurt the business. No one would willfully employ someone to their business that would hurt their profits.
Maybe the national anthem before sports games is outdated Â
calling someone else a troll. The dude was on Mets threads during the playoffs constantly taking shots at the Mets and posters on those threads. Amazing that his focus was on the Mets while his team was in the playoffs.
He hasn't been on any Mets threads this year! I wonder why? I'll look out for him during the first losing streak.
Huh? Ur confusing me woth another poster. I was not on the computer during the Yanks playoffs this past year. I think the closest I could come to trolling would be when I happened on a Mets thread (because believe it or not, I care about the Mets being successful) and it was around when the "our town" comments were being debated. I may have trash talked a little overly exhuberant Mets optimisn
Great posts in this thread, they just ring of common sense.
I don’t understand why people get so bent out of shape because some guys kneel to bring attention to a cause they want to bring to the forefront. God forbid someone different from you has a voice and wants to take a stand for something. And yes, the owners have the right to deny them employment. The players who kneel have repeatedly stated their reasons for doing so, and also the meaning behind it (i.e. not doing it to disrespect the flag, the military, etc.). Drawing attention to their cause can only help bring it to light for those people that are typically not impacted by these issues, thus getting more people to assist and help out.
I don't really have a feeling on this issue other than all the parties are doing what they feel they need to do and are all within their rights to do it. So, from that perspective, the market seems to be working.
But just from a philosophical, debating pov, what is the role of intent versus perception in all of this and is there or should there be consistency?
You point out that there is an action taken and that there is no intent to offend potential targets (e.g.; the military). So, the intent is harmless and thus the action should take that into account and people should be okay with it.
It just came to mind because I was listening to some voices on ESPN radio yesterday (can't recall who) and they arguing about the usage of "cotton-picking..." I had just turned it on and I am not sure of the genesis of the discussion and, quite frankly, "cotton-picking..." is a term I haven't heard in several decades. Anyway, whatever use prompted the discussion, all parties agreed that the usage was an idiom, maybe a substitute for a vulgarity (i.e.; "out of your fucking cotton-pickin' mind") and that there was no intent to offend or insult. But, there was still a debate about usage because the onus is on the speaker not to say it, rather than the listener to judge and weigh intent.
That's one incident, but I'm sure we can all think of others where if a person is offended, whether or not that feeling is rational or applicable to the situation, outweighs everything else, whereas the character of the actor or the intent of the action does not count at all.
Anyway, you post made me wonder about that in the context of who perceive the kneeling versus any intent or lack of intent to offend.
behind and accepting of his cause if Kaepernick didn’t wear pig socks and Castro shirts. By doing that he became just another asshole, insulting too many people while trying to make his point.
In the end he wins regardless of outcome, but I really do think this could have been much more accepted had he not come out like an uneducated, immature child when this all started.
Is when someone HAS to be told to stand for the National Anthem.
Some of you need a history lesson. Or a trip to Arlington National Cemetery.
There’s always the CFL Colin!
Oh give me a break. I’m not sure telling me to look back on this country’s history... particularly when it comes to the treatment of minorities... as a way to win this argument.
Neither is trying to make the protest anti-military in nature, which time and again every single player has said is not the case (even altering the way they’ve been protesting, from sitting to kneeling instead, out of respect for the military).
But please feel free to keep the straw men coming!
behind and accepting of his cause if Kaepernick didn’t wear pig socks and Castro shirts. By doing that he became just another asshole, insulting too many people while trying to make his point.
In the end he wins regardless of outcome, but I really do think this could have been much more accepted had he not come out like an uneducated, immature child when this all started.
I agree 100% with the first paragraph.
The second? Eh... I mean, his goal is to stop the unnecessary killing of unarmed minorities and have those that do be held more accountable for their actions. Not sure he’s going to ‘win’ there but it’d sure be nice if he did/could!
Seahawks: Are you going to continue to be a distraction and alienate a number of our customers thereby costing us money in lost ticket sales and concessions?
behind and accepting of his cause if Kaepernick didn’t wear pig socks and Castro shirts. By doing that he became just another asshole, insulting too many people while trying to make his point.
In the end he wins regardless of outcome, but I really do think this could have been much more accepted had he not come out like an uneducated, immature child when this all started.
I agree 100% with the first paragraph.
The second? Eh... I mean, his goal is to stop the unnecessary killing of unarmed minorities and have those that do be held more accountable for their actions. Not sure he’s going to ‘win’ there but it’d sure be nice if he did/could!
Do you think people at NFL games, or fans of NFL games, by and large support the unnecessary killing of unarmed minorities?
I won't speak for everyone, but I feel like the people who do support that are probably the same number of people who don't care about the daily murders in Chicago and DC or Baltimore.
this is my only issue with the protests, I don't think they're reaching their intended audience.
And they're alienating people who already support their cause (for the most part).
My father is a Vietnam Veteran and he's a cantankerous old man now, and he has no issue with the kneeling. He has issues with every player these days. he couldn't stand Shockey, couldn't stand Strahan (for the hold out threats) he wanted to trade Strahan before the 2007 season. LOL. He loved LT and the old school players.
We've discussed the protests, because as a veteran I wanted his opinion.
He would prefer there were simply nothing to protest (wouldn't we all?) and if he had his way would rather a different manner of protest, but he's not going to boycott or get upset over the protests - especially if the situation is real and warrants it.
However he understands why people do get upset about it. And by and large those are the people whose families have sacrificed and the flag has special meaning to them.
And as for intent, since when does intent ever matter with what someone can find offense? Every halloween you find well-intentioned white kids dressing up in black face - many times out of admiration for Mike Tyson or Prince or whoever - and practically ruining their lives because they don't understand the history. But, their intent was pure, right?
Flipside argument, just throwing it out there (not that I believe it) Â
Maybe Kaepernick doesn't actually want to sign for a team. Maybe if he signs for a team, he is relegated to a back up role, or worse... gets to play and is unimpressive/average/ordinary.
He'd go from being a somebody to a nobody without the whole protest thing. In fact, he was teetering that line when this whole thing started.
Maybe controversy creates cash, as they say, and actually signing with a team and giving up the kneeling etc... makes him just another guy, and his 15 minutes are up.
Do you think people at NFL games, or fans of NFL games, by and large support the unnecessary killing of unarmed minorities?
I won't speak for everyone, but I feel like the people who do support that are probably the same number of people who don't care about the daily murders in Chicago and DC or Baltimore.
this is my only issue with the protests, I don't think they're reaching their intended audience.
And they're alienating people who already support their cause (for the most part).
My father is a Vietnam Veteran and he's a cantankerous old man now, and he has no issue with the kneeling. He has issues with every player these days. he couldn't stand Shockey, couldn't stand Strahan (for the hold out threats) he wanted to trade Strahan before the 2007 season. LOL. He loved LT and the old school players.
We've discussed the protests, because as a veteran I wanted his opinion.
He would prefer there were simply nothing to protest (wouldn't we all?) and if he had his way would rather a different manner of protest, but he's not going to boycott or get upset over the protests - especially if the situation is real and warrants it.
However he understands why people do get upset about it. And by and large those are the people whose families have sacrificed and the flag has special meaning to them.
And as for intent, since when does intent ever matter with what someone can find offense? Every halloween you find well-intentioned white kids dressing up in black face - many times out of admiration for Mike Tyson or Prince or whoever - and practically ruining their lives because they don't understand the history. But, their intent was pure, right?
Do I think that? Of course not. And I agree with you 100% in that the message is not reaching the intended audience and the way it (the protesting) has been enacted is a huge reason why. Again, I've repeatedly said that although I agree 100% with the reason behind the protest, I'm not sure I agree with the method... and it's the method that has turned off a lot of people who otherwise probably would give more support to the cause behind it. It (the method) was just very sloppily done and didn't appear to have much thought behind it with regards to the potential effect it may have on public opinion. Which is a shame because it's a very real problem that's affecting not just minorities but all private citizens of all races and it needs to be looked at and fixed.
Do you think people at NFL games, or fans of NFL games, by and large support the unnecessary killing of unarmed minorities?
I won't speak for everyone, but I feel like the people who do support that are probably the same number of people who don't care about the daily murders in Chicago and DC or Baltimore.
this is my only issue with the protests, I don't think they're reaching their intended audience.
And they're alienating people who already support their cause (for the most part).
My father is a Vietnam Veteran and he's a cantankerous old man now, and he has no issue with the kneeling. He has issues with every player these days. he couldn't stand Shockey, couldn't stand Strahan (for the hold out threats) he wanted to trade Strahan before the 2007 season. LOL. He loved LT and the old school players.
We've discussed the protests, because as a veteran I wanted his opinion.
He would prefer there were simply nothing to protest (wouldn't we all?) and if he had his way would rather a different manner of protest, but he's not going to boycott or get upset over the protests - especially if the situation is real and warrants it.
However he understands why people do get upset about it. And by and large those are the people whose families have sacrificed and the flag has special meaning to them.
And as for intent, since when does intent ever matter with what someone can find offense? Every halloween you find well-intentioned white kids dressing up in black face - many times out of admiration for Mike Tyson or Prince or whoever - and practically ruining their lives because they don't understand the history. But, their intent was pure, right?
Do I think that? Of course not. And I agree with you 100% in that the message is not reaching the intended audience and the way it (the protesting) has been enacted is a huge reason why. Again, I've repeatedly said that although I agree 100% with the reason behind the protest, I'm not sure I agree with the method... and it's the method that has turned off a lot of people who otherwise probably would give more support to the cause behind it. It (the method) was just very sloppily done and didn't appear to have much thought behind it with regards to the potential effect it may have on public opinion. Which is a shame because it's a very real problem that's affecting not just minorities but all private citizens of all races and it needs to be looked at and fixed.
Maybe Kaepernick doesn't actually want to sign for a team. Maybe if he signs for a team, he is relegated to a back up role, or worse... gets to play and is unimpressive/average/ordinary.
He'd go from being a somebody to a nobody without the whole protest thing. In fact, he was teetering that line when this whole thing started.
Maybe controversy creates cash, as they say, and actually signing with a team and giving up the kneeling etc... makes him just another guy, and his 15 minutes are up.
That's a hard sell to me Britt. You're basically implying that after all that he's been through and stated many times how much he wants to play... that he's now scared to try to play a game he's played since he was a kid because he's scared he's no longer going to be important? I don't see it. If that was the case he'd simply just be fine with not being scooped up by a team.
Let's be clear about something... IMO, no matter what happens to him from the point where this protest started... til now and going forward... the name Colin Kaepernick will have a place in US sports and history forever. I truly believe that. I don't see his '15 minutes' going away any time soon or in the near future. I don't think his is a name that will soon be forgotten whether he plays another down or not. Here it is two years after the start of the protest and just look at the amount of posts a thread with his name in it has generated.
Maybe Kaepernick doesn't actually want to sign for a team. Maybe if he signs for a team, he is relegated to a back up role, or worse... gets to play and is unimpressive/average/ordinary.
He'd go from being a somebody to a nobody without the whole protest thing. In fact, he was teetering that line when this whole thing started.
Maybe controversy creates cash, as they say, and actually signing with a team and giving up the kneeling etc... makes him just another guy, and his 15 minutes are up.
That's a hard sell to me Britt. You're basically implying that after all that he's been through and stated many times how much he wants to play... that he's now scared to try to play a game he's played since he was a kid because he's scared he's no longer going to be important? I don't see it. If that was the case he'd simply just be fine with not being scooped up by a team.
Let's be clear about something... IMO, no matter what happens to him from the point where this protest started... til now and going forward... the name Colin Kaepernick will have a place in US sports and history forever. I truly believe that. I don't see his '15 minutes' going away any time soon or in the near future. I don't think his is a name that will soon be forgotten whether he plays another down or not. Here it is two years after the start of the protest and just look at the amount of posts a thread with his name in it has generated.
I was just basing it off of the rumors that were circulating last year in regards to teams bringing him in, and him having unreasonable contract demands. 17 million per year if I'm remembering correctly. Basically starters money. I remember thinking, "why would he do that?", and this thought crept in to my mind.
I mean, he could take a one year prove it deal.... Â
And yet there are about 3 or 4 teams that he'd probably be able to start for tomorrow if given the chance.
which teams? All these teams can use him and then when they draft a QB and put him in. The media will call for him and talks and yada yada. Again, blame the media.
and what happened with the Ravens when talks were happening? He almost got a job until his girl got involved.
Listen, i think the guy is awesome for what he is doing. Hell i dont want him playing so he can be more devoted to the real fight in the world. But the fact that he wants to use this platform for it, seems very odd. He doesnt really want football.
but whatever. All this talk is again my assumption as to why they dont want him.
RE: RE: RE: Flipside argument, just throwing it out there (not that I believe it) Â
Maybe Kaepernick doesn't actually want to sign for a team. Maybe if he signs for a team, he is relegated to a back up role, or worse... gets to play and is unimpressive/average/ordinary.
He'd go from being a somebody to a nobody without the whole protest thing. In fact, he was teetering that line when this whole thing started.
Maybe controversy creates cash, as they say, and actually signing with a team and giving up the kneeling etc... makes him just another guy, and his 15 minutes are up.
That's a hard sell to me Britt. You're basically implying that after all that he's been through and stated many times how much he wants to play... that he's now scared to try to play a game he's played since he was a kid because he's scared he's no longer going to be important? I don't see it. If that was the case he'd simply just be fine with not being scooped up by a team.
Let's be clear about something... IMO, no matter what happens to him from the point where this protest started... til now and going forward... the name Colin Kaepernick will have a place in US sports and history forever. I truly believe that. I don't see his '15 minutes' going away any time soon or in the near future. I don't think his is a name that will soon be forgotten whether he plays another down or not. Here it is two years after the start of the protest and just look at the amount of posts a thread with his name in it has generated.
I was just basing it off of the rumors that were circulating last year in regards to teams bringing him in, and him having unreasonable contract demands. 17 million per year if I'm remembering correctly. Basically starters money. I remember thinking, "why would he do that?", and this thought crept in to my mind.
Well... like you said, they were rumors. Who knows what he was asking for? And if even if he was asking for it... if a team came back and stated that they weren't going to pay him anything close to that and that he can play for them for the league minimum.. and he didn't take that deal... that's on him. My personal opinion is that if he was offered that, he'd take it... but who knows?
RE: I mean, he could take a one year prove it deal.... Â
and show a team that he's all about helping the team, being a great player, and not hurting the team business.
Wouldn't that have been an easy answer to Seattle's question?
Yeah... I think so... and maybe he was considering it based off the Seahawks saying they were postponing the visit. But I just saw that they already signed another guy so I guess that option is no longer on the table for him.
RE: RE: RE: again... all this talk for a backup... Â
And yet there are about 3 or 4 teams that he'd probably be able to start for tomorrow if given the chance.
which teams? All these teams can use him and then when they draft a QB and put him in. The media will call for him and talks and yada yada. Again, blame the media.
and what happened with the Ravens when talks were happening? He almost got a job until his girl got involved.
Listen, i think the guy is awesome for what he is doing. Hell i dont want him playing so he can be more devoted to the real fight in the world. But the fact that he wants to use this platform for it, seems very odd. He doesnt really want football.
but whatever. All this talk is again my assumption as to why they dont want him.
Jets and Bills for starters. That is... until they get their rookie pick ready to play anyway...
Quote:
But the fact that he wants to use this platform for it, seems very odd.
I don't think it's 'odd' at all. It's the platform he's been given and worked very hard to achieve (being a pro football player). He wasn't 'given' that... he worked for it. Like you said, what happened with the Ravens was his girl stupidly putting in her two sense regarding her man's business... unless her name is Mrs. Kaepernick, if I was Colin I'd have told her to mind her own business... but that's just me. She ruined an opportunity for him and can leave him at any time and not have to deal with the consequences of her own actions on his behalf.
RE: RE: RE: RE: again... all this talk for a backup... Â
And yet there are about 3 or 4 teams that he'd probably be able to start for tomorrow if given the chance.
which teams? All these teams can use him and then when they draft a QB and put him in. The media will call for him and talks and yada yada. Again, blame the media.
and what happened with the Ravens when talks were happening? He almost got a job until his girl got involved.
Listen, i think the guy is awesome for what he is doing. Hell i dont want him playing so he can be more devoted to the real fight in the world. But the fact that he wants to use this platform for it, seems very odd. He doesnt really want football.
but whatever. All this talk is again my assumption as to why they dont want him.
Jets and Bills for starters. That is... until they get their rookie pick ready to play anyway...
Quote:
But the fact that he wants to use this platform for it, seems very odd.
I don't think it's 'odd' at all. It's the platform he's been given and worked very hard to achieve (being a pro football player). He wasn't 'given' that... he worked for it. Like you said, what happened with the Ravens was his girl stupidly putting in her two sense regarding her man's business... unless her name is Mrs. Kaepernick, if I was Colin I'd have told her to mind her own business... but that's just me. She ruined an opportunity for him and can leave him at any time and not have to deal with the consequences of her own actions on his behalf.
he is still with her. Sooooooooooooo
and as for the platform, do you want to play or want the platform?
and as for the platform, do you want to play or want the platform?
Yeah well... good pootie will make any man stick around with someone longer than he probably should *grin*.
I think he wants both. He gets the platform by playing. If he does in fact suck... then he loses his platform. But he should at least have the opportunity to prove that he sucks. He's not even getting that.
do we know his contract demands? What if he’s been told he’d get a non guaranteed contract as a camp invite and he declined?
I’m guessing he wants his cake while eating it too. He wants guaranteed money so he can’t be cut in order to both get paid and continue to protest.
Well, we can both guess all we want. I don't know and at this point it's not really all that important to me because until recently he wasn't even getting any calls... much less contract offers. He needs to at least get his foot in the door... ANY door... before he worries about the contract IMO.
and as for the platform, do you want to play or want the platform?
Yeah well... good pootie will make any man stick around with someone longer than he probably should *grin*.
I think he wants both. He gets the platform by playing. If he does in fact suck... then he loses his platform. But he should at least have the opportunity to prove that he sucks. He's not even getting that.
ok so he wants the platform to mess with people a certain way. Being all the examples given once before. So with that said, do you see why owners might be put off with this person?
I just want you to play ball. Thats it. i dont want you to solve the world. I want you to play ball. If you want to solve the world, go do that. if not, play ball.
do we know his contract demands? What if he’s been told he’d get a non guaranteed contract as a camp invite and he declined?
I’m guessing he wants his cake while eating it too. He wants guaranteed money so he can’t be cut in order to both get paid and continue to protest.
Well, we can both guess all we want. I don't know and at this point it's not really all that important to me because until recently he wasn't even getting any calls... much less contract offers. He needs to at least get his foot in the door... ANY door... before he worries about the contract IMO.
I think that’s naieve. If reports of him not adding a non kneeling clause is true that means he’s atleast talked to 1 team about a contract. But again, if his demands are unrealistic, that’s another problem.
Do you really think this guy is going to sign a contract with no guaranteed money?
ok so he wants the platform to mess with people a certain way. Being all the examples given once before. So with that said, do you see why owners might be put off with this person?
I just want you to play ball. Thats it. i dont want you to solve the world. I want you to play ball. If you want to solve the world, go do that. if not, play ball.
see what i am getting at?
"to mess with people a certain way"?
Is that how you see it? Perhaps that's the problem right there. He's using the platform in order to bring light to an issue that wasn't being discussed nearly as much as it is now that the protesting has started. This is an issue that's been going on for centuries... this didn't just start a few years ago. And if you were a person of color seeing what's been happening, you'd be happy that someone is shedding some light on it (even if you disagree with their method(s)).
And why can't he do both? The NFL uses a whole, entire month and color to try and solve an issue that everyone agrees needs to be figured out (breast cancer) and to bring awareness to it. But guys don't have an issue with that because they know if they did they'd be sleeping on the couch the rest of their lives. You sound a lot like the 'Shut up and dribble' woman... and if that's how you really feel then yeah... I see exactly what you're getting at.
do we know his contract demands? What if he’s been told he’d get a non guaranteed contract as a camp invite and he declined?
I’m guessing he wants his cake while eating it too. He wants guaranteed money so he can’t be cut in order to both get paid and continue to protest.
Well, we can both guess all we want. I don't know and at this point it's not really all that important to me because until recently he wasn't even getting any calls... much less contract offers. He needs to at least get his foot in the door... ANY door... before he worries about the contract IMO.
I think that’s naieve. If reports of him not adding a non kneeling clause is true that means he’s atleast talked to 1 team about a contract. But again, if his demands are unrealistic, that’s another problem.
Do you really think this guy is going to sign a contract with no guaranteed money?
What I'm saying is I don't know and neither do you. You can pretend to think you do... but you don't. You're calling me naive because I'm admitting this... that comes across as obnoxious to me.
ok so he wants the platform to mess with people a certain way. Being all the examples given once before. So with that said, do you see why owners might be put off with this person?
I just want you to play ball. Thats it. i dont want you to solve the world. I want you to play ball. If you want to solve the world, go do that. if not, play ball.
see what i am getting at?
"to mess with people a certain way"?
Is that how you see it? Perhaps that's the problem right there. He's using the platform in order to bring light to an issue that wasn't being discussed nearly as much as it is now that the protesting has started. This is an issue that's been going on for centuries... this didn't just start a few years ago. And if you were a person of color seeing what's been happening, you'd be happy that someone is shedding some light on it (even if you disagree with their method(s)).
And why can't he do both? The NFL uses a whole, entire month and color to try and solve an issue that everyone agrees needs to be figured out (breast cancer) and to bring awareness to it. But guys don't have an issue with that because they know if they did they'd be sleeping on the couch the rest of their lives. You sound a lot like the 'Shut up and dribble' woman... and if that's how you really feel then yeah... I see exactly what you're getting at.
again, now you are a polarizing figure. You said it yourself. Without the nfl, he is in the history books. (which is why i still say fuck the NFL and just be the person he wants to be. He really doesnt need them) but he wants to use them for his agenda. He has a different agenda. Thats how i see it.
And no i am not shut up and dribble man. Why? Because lebron isnt wearing pig socks. he isnt wearing Che t shirts. he isnt doing all these things that can really rub people the wrong way. I honestly think his head is in the right place(though he needs to get rid of the girl) but i dont think he sees why people dont like him.
Again, this is why teams dont want him. We need to play to win. You want the platform. Sure, but this kneeling thing has rubbed alot of people the wrong way. So you cool with that? no. ok then sorry bud.
this is all our opinion, that’s a given. But I stand by my comment - it’s incredibly naieve to think that he “just wants a shot” instead of an actual contract with guarantees. And this thread exisists because he was talking about a contract...
My best guess is that he’s a very hard person to work with now and he simply isn’t worth the headache. That’s on him as other kneelers have had job offers, including a player for the NY Giants.
again, now you are a polarizing figure. You said it yourself. Without the nfl, he is in the history books. (which is why i still say fuck the NFL and just be the person he wants to be. He really doesnt need them) but he wants to use them for his agenda. He has a different agenda. Thats how i see it.
And no i am not shut up and dribble man. Why? Because lebron isnt wearing pig socks. he isnt wearing Che t shirts. he isnt doing all these things that can really rub people the wrong way. I honestly think his head is in the right place(though he needs to get rid of the girl) but i dont think he sees why people dont like him.
Again, this is why teams dont want him. We need to play to win. You want the platform. Sure, but this kneeling thing has rubbed alot of people the wrong way. So you cool with that? no. ok then sorry bud.
But he still wants to play GMAN... why does he HAVE to give up one in order to do the other when he can do both (if someone will give him the chance... which I can understand why some teams don't want to do, although I disagree with it)?
But I agree with you that some of the moves Kaep has made hasn't helped his... or perhaps I should say THE... cause at all. Where I disagree is that I think he knows EXACTLY why people don't like him. In his mind, evidently, continuing to protest the way he has is still the way to bring awareness to the issue. You and I may disagree with that... but it's how he chooses to continue his life. If that means no football... it appears he's willing to make that sacrifice.
this is all our opinion, that’s a given. But I stand by my comment - it’s incredibly naieve to think that he “just wants a shot” instead of an actual contract with guarantees. And this thread exisists because he was talking about a contract...
My best guess is that he’s a very hard person to work with now and he simply isn’t worth the headache. That’s on him as other kneelers have had job offers, including a player for the NY Giants.
IMO, it's because he's the face of the protests (similar to Reid in KWALL2's thread) that he's toxic. As has been said, I didn't even know who Michael Thomas was... much less that he was involved in the protest... before it was mentioned on this site. I mean... of course he wants some guarantees in his contract... who wouldn't? But that doesn't mean that he has no intention of playing if he isn't given one... which is what you appear to be thinking.
It’s a win win for him.
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Do not show the players on the sidelines. Show a tight picture of whoever is singing or the flag or both. If no one sees it, did it happen? The players get to kneel if they want and the people in the stadium see it, so it is a protest. No one is stopping them, their right to protest is preserved and people who just want to watch football on Sunday and not have their head explode because of a kneeling player get their wish too. Why not that?
Or better yet... just leave the teams in the locker room like they used to do!
MAKING a person stand for the National Anthem is about the most UNAmerican thing I can think of... and yet that's exactly what most here and fans of the NFL that have a problem with the kneeling want... but... funny enough... most of the military guys I know and have heard from support the kneeling. Go figure.
+1
I don’t understand why people get so bent out of shape because some guys kneel to bring attention to a cause they want to bring to the forefront. God forbid someone different from you has a voice and wants to take a stand for something. And yes, the owners have the right to deny them employment. The players who kneel have repeatedly stated their reasons for doing so, and also the meaning behind it (i.e. not doing it to disrespect the flag, the military, etc.). Drawing attention to their cause can only help bring it to light for those people that are typically not impacted by these issues, thus getting more people to assist and help out.
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In comment 13912033 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13912021 paesan98 said:
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In comment 13912011 DonQuixote said:
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his constitutional rights to express himself.
What's more, I support his cause, that being police violence and biased sentencing directed toward black men. What's more, I think the teams avoiding him are cowards and would be better served if they signed him and addressed a legitimate important issue in our society.
CK's protest is a legitimate concern. I know some of you want to keep politics out of football, but is the kneeling really such a hardship for you when compared to black men not being able to drive a nice car in a white neighborhood? He is inserting himself into your Sunday, and I know some of you don't like that, but he is inserting himself because he has the opportunity and forum to do so. If he was some black guy and not an NFL QB, nobody would listen, which is precisely the point.
No one is denying him his right to express himself. What many people seem to forget is that playing football is a JOB. What would happen if you or I went to work and protested about something that has nothing to do with our jobs while we were being paid to do that job? I don't know about you, but I would be told to stop immediately and get back to work, the work I m being paid to do. If I choose not to do so, I would be looking for a new job.
When has standing for the national anthem been a required part of the job description for an NFL player?
This has been part of the NFL game operations manual for a long time. Regardless, any member organization can make employee policy at any time, subject to change and at their discretion. This is work, it's business, it's companies and employees. It has nothing to do with rights, freedoms, or social justice and causes. Nobody is stopping Kaepernick or anyone else from taking whatever political stance they want or speaking about whatever cause or issue they want. They are stopping them from doing it as a member of their football organization.
I'm just a random white guy, but I think CK is representing the very best traditions of our society. You can talk all you want about the rights of employers and all that, and I would agree, but they are on the wrong side of history.
I have a suggestion...why don't we listen to what these players are trying to tell us and deal with the inequalities that actually exist and affect their lives and the lives of their families.
Amen
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In comment 13911679 Thegratefulhead said:
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Do not show the players on the sidelines. Show a tight picture of whoever is singing or the flag or both. If no one sees it, did it happen? The players get to kneel if they want and the people in the stadium see it, so it is a protest. No one is stopping them, their right to protest is preserved and people who just want to watch football on Sunday and not have their head explode because of a kneeling player get their wish too. Why not that?
Or better yet... just leave the teams in the locker room like they used to do!
MAKING a person stand for the National Anthem is about the most UNAmerican thing I can think of... and yet that's exactly what most here and fans of the NFL that have a problem with the kneeling want... but... funny enough... most of the military guys I know and have heard from support the kneeling. Go figure.
+1
+++
I don’t understand why people get so bent out of shape because some guys kneel to bring attention to a cause they want to bring to the forefront. God forbid someone different from you has a voice and wants to take a stand for something. And yes, the owners have the right to deny them employment. The players who kneel have repeatedly stated their reasons for doing so, and also the meaning behind it (i.e. not doing it to disrespect the flag, the military, etc.). Drawing attention to their cause can only help bring it to light for those people that are typically not impacted by these issues, thus getting more people to assist and help out.
+++
The NFL is a business and the protests have hurt the business. No one would willfully employ someone to their business that would hurt their profits.
He hasn't been on any Mets threads this year! I wonder why? I'll look out for him during the first losing streak.
Huh? Ur confusing me woth another poster. I was not on the computer during the Yanks playoffs this past year. I think the closest I could come to trolling would be when I happened on a Mets thread (because believe it or not, I care about the Mets being successful) and it was around when the "our town" comments were being debated. I may have trash talked a little overly exhuberant Mets optimisn
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mdc1 : 2:39 pm : link : reply
This fucknut started the flame that tanked the NFL ratings last year.
Link to the data that shows kneeling and not the enormous influx streaming cable cutters was the largest cause of any ratings drop?
Been a gman fan since i was born, i watched 1 games last year.
To take a BS narrative, and disrespect my country for it... i wont give you my views.
Im a giants fan and always will be, but i wont watch a game until this shit is over
People do care.
LT = coke head
Ray rice = wife beater
No body cared because they were good...he was shit, got benched, stared kneeling, and is now out of a job... fuck him dont care
Some of you need a history lesson. Or a trip to Arlington National Cemetery.
There’s always the CFL Colin!
I don’t understand why people get so bent out of shape because some guys kneel to bring attention to a cause they want to bring to the forefront. God forbid someone different from you has a voice and wants to take a stand for something. And yes, the owners have the right to deny them employment. The players who kneel have repeatedly stated their reasons for doing so, and also the meaning behind it (i.e. not doing it to disrespect the flag, the military, etc.). Drawing attention to their cause can only help bring it to light for those people that are typically not impacted by these issues, thus getting more people to assist and help out.
But just from a philosophical, debating pov, what is the role of intent versus perception in all of this and is there or should there be consistency?
You point out that there is an action taken and that there is no intent to offend potential targets (e.g.; the military). So, the intent is harmless and thus the action should take that into account and people should be okay with it.
It just came to mind because I was listening to some voices on ESPN radio yesterday (can't recall who) and they arguing about the usage of "cotton-picking..." I had just turned it on and I am not sure of the genesis of the discussion and, quite frankly, "cotton-picking..." is a term I haven't heard in several decades. Anyway, whatever use prompted the discussion, all parties agreed that the usage was an idiom, maybe a substitute for a vulgarity (i.e.; "out of your fucking cotton-pickin' mind") and that there was no intent to offend or insult. But, there was still a debate about usage because the onus is on the speaker not to say it, rather than the listener to judge and weigh intent.
That's one incident, but I'm sure we can all think of others where if a person is offended, whether or not that feeling is rational or applicable to the situation, outweighs everything else, whereas the character of the actor or the intent of the action does not count at all.
Anyway, you post made me wonder about that in the context of who perceive the kneeling versus any intent or lack of intent to offend.
In the end he wins regardless of outcome, but I really do think this could have been much more accepted had he not come out like an uneducated, immature child when this all started.
Some of you need a history lesson. Or a trip to Arlington National Cemetery.
There’s always the CFL Colin!
Oh give me a break. I’m not sure telling me to look back on this country’s history... particularly when it comes to the treatment of minorities... as a way to win this argument.
Neither is trying to make the protest anti-military in nature, which time and again every single player has said is not the case (even altering the way they’ve been protesting, from sitting to kneeling instead, out of respect for the military).
But please feel free to keep the straw men coming!
In the end he wins regardless of outcome, but I really do think this could have been much more accepted had he not come out like an uneducated, immature child when this all started.
I agree 100% with the first paragraph.
The second? Eh... I mean, his goal is to stop the unnecessary killing of unarmed minorities and have those that do be held more accountable for their actions. Not sure he’s going to ‘win’ there but it’d sure be nice if he did/could!
Kap: Um, probably.
Seahawks: Never mind, then.
Kap: These racists have conspired against me.
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behind and accepting of his cause if Kaepernick didn’t wear pig socks and Castro shirts. By doing that he became just another asshole, insulting too many people while trying to make his point.
In the end he wins regardless of outcome, but I really do think this could have been much more accepted had he not come out like an uneducated, immature child when this all started.
I agree 100% with the first paragraph.
The second? Eh... I mean, his goal is to stop the unnecessary killing of unarmed minorities and have those that do be held more accountable for their actions. Not sure he’s going to ‘win’ there but it’d sure be nice if he did/could!
Do you think people at NFL games, or fans of NFL games, by and large support the unnecessary killing of unarmed minorities?
I won't speak for everyone, but I feel like the people who do support that are probably the same number of people who don't care about the daily murders in Chicago and DC or Baltimore.
this is my only issue with the protests, I don't think they're reaching their intended audience.
And they're alienating people who already support their cause (for the most part).
My father is a Vietnam Veteran and he's a cantankerous old man now, and he has no issue with the kneeling. He has issues with every player these days. he couldn't stand Shockey, couldn't stand Strahan (for the hold out threats) he wanted to trade Strahan before the 2007 season. LOL. He loved LT and the old school players.
We've discussed the protests, because as a veteran I wanted his opinion.
He would prefer there were simply nothing to protest (wouldn't we all?) and if he had his way would rather a different manner of protest, but he's not going to boycott or get upset over the protests - especially if the situation is real and warrants it.
However he understands why people do get upset about it. And by and large those are the people whose families have sacrificed and the flag has special meaning to them.
And as for intent, since when does intent ever matter with what someone can find offense? Every halloween you find well-intentioned white kids dressing up in black face - many times out of admiration for Mike Tyson or Prince or whoever - and practically ruining their lives because they don't understand the history. But, their intent was pure, right?
Maybe Kaepernick doesn't actually want to sign for a team. Maybe if he signs for a team, he is relegated to a back up role, or worse... gets to play and is unimpressive/average/ordinary.
He'd go from being a somebody to a nobody without the whole protest thing. In fact, he was teetering that line when this whole thing started.
Maybe controversy creates cash, as they say, and actually signing with a team and giving up the kneeling etc... makes him just another guy, and his 15 minutes are up.
I won't speak for everyone, but I feel like the people who do support that are probably the same number of people who don't care about the daily murders in Chicago and DC or Baltimore.
this is my only issue with the protests, I don't think they're reaching their intended audience.
And they're alienating people who already support their cause (for the most part).
My father is a Vietnam Veteran and he's a cantankerous old man now, and he has no issue with the kneeling. He has issues with every player these days. he couldn't stand Shockey, couldn't stand Strahan (for the hold out threats) he wanted to trade Strahan before the 2007 season. LOL. He loved LT and the old school players.
We've discussed the protests, because as a veteran I wanted his opinion.
He would prefer there were simply nothing to protest (wouldn't we all?) and if he had his way would rather a different manner of protest, but he's not going to boycott or get upset over the protests - especially if the situation is real and warrants it.
However he understands why people do get upset about it. And by and large those are the people whose families have sacrificed and the flag has special meaning to them.
And as for intent, since when does intent ever matter with what someone can find offense? Every halloween you find well-intentioned white kids dressing up in black face - many times out of admiration for Mike Tyson or Prince or whoever - and practically ruining their lives because they don't understand the history. But, their intent was pure, right?
Do I think that? Of course not. And I agree with you 100% in that the message is not reaching the intended audience and the way it (the protesting) has been enacted is a huge reason why. Again, I've repeatedly said that although I agree 100% with the reason behind the protest, I'm not sure I agree with the method... and it's the method that has turned off a lot of people who otherwise probably would give more support to the cause behind it. It (the method) was just very sloppily done and didn't appear to have much thought behind it with regards to the potential effect it may have on public opinion. Which is a shame because it's a very real problem that's affecting not just minorities but all private citizens of all races and it needs to be looked at and fixed.
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Do you think people at NFL games, or fans of NFL games, by and large support the unnecessary killing of unarmed minorities?
I won't speak for everyone, but I feel like the people who do support that are probably the same number of people who don't care about the daily murders in Chicago and DC or Baltimore.
this is my only issue with the protests, I don't think they're reaching their intended audience.
And they're alienating people who already support their cause (for the most part).
My father is a Vietnam Veteran and he's a cantankerous old man now, and he has no issue with the kneeling. He has issues with every player these days. he couldn't stand Shockey, couldn't stand Strahan (for the hold out threats) he wanted to trade Strahan before the 2007 season. LOL. He loved LT and the old school players.
We've discussed the protests, because as a veteran I wanted his opinion.
He would prefer there were simply nothing to protest (wouldn't we all?) and if he had his way would rather a different manner of protest, but he's not going to boycott or get upset over the protests - especially if the situation is real and warrants it.
However he understands why people do get upset about it. And by and large those are the people whose families have sacrificed and the flag has special meaning to them.
And as for intent, since when does intent ever matter with what someone can find offense? Every halloween you find well-intentioned white kids dressing up in black face - many times out of admiration for Mike Tyson or Prince or whoever - and practically ruining their lives because they don't understand the history. But, their intent was pure, right?
Do I think that? Of course not. And I agree with you 100% in that the message is not reaching the intended audience and the way it (the protesting) has been enacted is a huge reason why. Again, I've repeatedly said that although I agree 100% with the reason behind the protest, I'm not sure I agree with the method... and it's the method that has turned off a lot of people who otherwise probably would give more support to the cause behind it. It (the method) was just very sloppily done and didn't appear to have much thought behind it with regards to the potential effect it may have on public opinion. Which is a shame because it's a very real problem that's affecting not just minorities but all private citizens of all races and it needs to be looked at and fixed.
Agree T-Bone.
Maybe Kaepernick doesn't actually want to sign for a team. Maybe if he signs for a team, he is relegated to a back up role, or worse... gets to play and is unimpressive/average/ordinary.
He'd go from being a somebody to a nobody without the whole protest thing. In fact, he was teetering that line when this whole thing started.
Maybe controversy creates cash, as they say, and actually signing with a team and giving up the kneeling etc... makes him just another guy, and his 15 minutes are up.
That's a hard sell to me Britt. You're basically implying that after all that he's been through and stated many times how much he wants to play... that he's now scared to try to play a game he's played since he was a kid because he's scared he's no longer going to be important? I don't see it. If that was the case he'd simply just be fine with not being scooped up by a team.
Let's be clear about something... IMO, no matter what happens to him from the point where this protest started... til now and going forward... the name Colin Kaepernick will have a place in US sports and history forever. I truly believe that. I don't see his '15 minutes' going away any time soon or in the near future. I don't think his is a name that will soon be forgotten whether he plays another down or not. Here it is two years after the start of the protest and just look at the amount of posts a thread with his name in it has generated.
And yet there are about 3 or 4 teams that he'd probably be able to start for tomorrow if given the chance.
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but Devil's Advocate and all....
Maybe Kaepernick doesn't actually want to sign for a team. Maybe if he signs for a team, he is relegated to a back up role, or worse... gets to play and is unimpressive/average/ordinary.
He'd go from being a somebody to a nobody without the whole protest thing. In fact, he was teetering that line when this whole thing started.
Maybe controversy creates cash, as they say, and actually signing with a team and giving up the kneeling etc... makes him just another guy, and his 15 minutes are up.
That's a hard sell to me Britt. You're basically implying that after all that he's been through and stated many times how much he wants to play... that he's now scared to try to play a game he's played since he was a kid because he's scared he's no longer going to be important? I don't see it. If that was the case he'd simply just be fine with not being scooped up by a team.
Let's be clear about something... IMO, no matter what happens to him from the point where this protest started... til now and going forward... the name Colin Kaepernick will have a place in US sports and history forever. I truly believe that. I don't see his '15 minutes' going away any time soon or in the near future. I don't think his is a name that will soon be forgotten whether he plays another down or not. Here it is two years after the start of the protest and just look at the amount of posts a thread with his name in it has generated.
I was just basing it off of the rumors that were circulating last year in regards to teams bringing him in, and him having unreasonable contract demands. 17 million per year if I'm remembering correctly. Basically starters money. I remember thinking, "why would he do that?", and this thought crept in to my mind.
Wouldn't that have been an easy answer to Seattle's question?
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is why teams dont want him.
And yet there are about 3 or 4 teams that he'd probably be able to start for tomorrow if given the chance.
which teams? All these teams can use him and then when they draft a QB and put him in. The media will call for him and talks and yada yada. Again, blame the media.
and what happened with the Ravens when talks were happening? He almost got a job until his girl got involved.
Listen, i think the guy is awesome for what he is doing. Hell i dont want him playing so he can be more devoted to the real fight in the world. But the fact that he wants to use this platform for it, seems very odd. He doesnt really want football.
but whatever. All this talk is again my assumption as to why they dont want him.
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In comment 13912621 Britt in VA said:
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but Devil's Advocate and all....
Maybe Kaepernick doesn't actually want to sign for a team. Maybe if he signs for a team, he is relegated to a back up role, or worse... gets to play and is unimpressive/average/ordinary.
He'd go from being a somebody to a nobody without the whole protest thing. In fact, he was teetering that line when this whole thing started.
Maybe controversy creates cash, as they say, and actually signing with a team and giving up the kneeling etc... makes him just another guy, and his 15 minutes are up.
That's a hard sell to me Britt. You're basically implying that after all that he's been through and stated many times how much he wants to play... that he's now scared to try to play a game he's played since he was a kid because he's scared he's no longer going to be important? I don't see it. If that was the case he'd simply just be fine with not being scooped up by a team.
Let's be clear about something... IMO, no matter what happens to him from the point where this protest started... til now and going forward... the name Colin Kaepernick will have a place in US sports and history forever. I truly believe that. I don't see his '15 minutes' going away any time soon or in the near future. I don't think his is a name that will soon be forgotten whether he plays another down or not. Here it is two years after the start of the protest and just look at the amount of posts a thread with his name in it has generated.
I was just basing it off of the rumors that were circulating last year in regards to teams bringing him in, and him having unreasonable contract demands. 17 million per year if I'm remembering correctly. Basically starters money. I remember thinking, "why would he do that?", and this thought crept in to my mind.
Well... like you said, they were rumors. Who knows what he was asking for? And if even if he was asking for it... if a team came back and stated that they weren't going to pay him anything close to that and that he can play for them for the league minimum.. and he didn't take that deal... that's on him. My personal opinion is that if he was offered that, he'd take it... but who knows?
Wouldn't that have been an easy answer to Seattle's question?
Yeah... I think so... and maybe he was considering it based off the Seahawks saying they were postponing the visit. But I just saw that they already signed another guy so I guess that option is no longer on the table for him.
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In comment 13912678 GMAN4LIFE said:
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is why teams dont want him.
And yet there are about 3 or 4 teams that he'd probably be able to start for tomorrow if given the chance.
which teams? All these teams can use him and then when they draft a QB and put him in. The media will call for him and talks and yada yada. Again, blame the media.
and what happened with the Ravens when talks were happening? He almost got a job until his girl got involved.
Listen, i think the guy is awesome for what he is doing. Hell i dont want him playing so he can be more devoted to the real fight in the world. But the fact that he wants to use this platform for it, seems very odd. He doesnt really want football.
but whatever. All this talk is again my assumption as to why they dont want him.
Jets and Bills for starters. That is... until they get their rookie pick ready to play anyway...
I don't think it's 'odd' at all. It's the platform he's been given and worked very hard to achieve (being a pro football player). He wasn't 'given' that... he worked for it. Like you said, what happened with the Ravens was his girl stupidly putting in her two sense regarding her man's business... unless her name is Mrs. Kaepernick, if I was Colin I'd have told her to mind her own business... but that's just me. She ruined an opportunity for him and can leave him at any time and not have to deal with the consequences of her own actions on his behalf.
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In comment 13912682 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13912678 GMAN4LIFE said:
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is why teams dont want him.
And yet there are about 3 or 4 teams that he'd probably be able to start for tomorrow if given the chance.
which teams? All these teams can use him and then when they draft a QB and put him in. The media will call for him and talks and yada yada. Again, blame the media.
and what happened with the Ravens when talks were happening? He almost got a job until his girl got involved.
Listen, i think the guy is awesome for what he is doing. Hell i dont want him playing so he can be more devoted to the real fight in the world. But the fact that he wants to use this platform for it, seems very odd. He doesnt really want football.
but whatever. All this talk is again my assumption as to why they dont want him.
Jets and Bills for starters. That is... until they get their rookie pick ready to play anyway...
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But the fact that he wants to use this platform for it, seems very odd.
I don't think it's 'odd' at all. It's the platform he's been given and worked very hard to achieve (being a pro football player). He wasn't 'given' that... he worked for it. Like you said, what happened with the Ravens was his girl stupidly putting in her two sense regarding her man's business... unless her name is Mrs. Kaepernick, if I was Colin I'd have told her to mind her own business... but that's just me. She ruined an opportunity for him and can leave him at any time and not have to deal with the consequences of her own actions on his behalf.
he is still with her. Sooooooooooooo
and as for the platform, do you want to play or want the platform?
and as for the platform, do you want to play or want the platform?
Yeah well... good pootie will make any man stick around with someone longer than he probably should *grin*.
I think he wants both. He gets the platform by playing. If he does in fact suck... then he loses his platform. But he should at least have the opportunity to prove that he sucks. He's not even getting that.
I’m guessing he wants his cake while eating it too. He wants guaranteed money so he can’t be cut in order to both get paid and continue to protest.
I’m guessing he wants his cake while eating it too. He wants guaranteed money so he can’t be cut in order to both get paid and continue to protest.
Well, we can both guess all we want. I don't know and at this point it's not really all that important to me because until recently he wasn't even getting any calls... much less contract offers. He needs to at least get his foot in the door... ANY door... before he worries about the contract IMO.
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he is still with her. Sooooooooooooo
and as for the platform, do you want to play or want the platform?
Yeah well... good pootie will make any man stick around with someone longer than he probably should *grin*.
I think he wants both. He gets the platform by playing. If he does in fact suck... then he loses his platform. But he should at least have the opportunity to prove that he sucks. He's not even getting that.
ok so he wants the platform to mess with people a certain way. Being all the examples given once before. So with that said, do you see why owners might be put off with this person?
I just want you to play ball. Thats it. i dont want you to solve the world. I want you to play ball. If you want to solve the world, go do that. if not, play ball.
see what i am getting at?
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do we know his contract demands? What if he’s been told he’d get a non guaranteed contract as a camp invite and he declined?
I’m guessing he wants his cake while eating it too. He wants guaranteed money so he can’t be cut in order to both get paid and continue to protest.
Well, we can both guess all we want. I don't know and at this point it's not really all that important to me because until recently he wasn't even getting any calls... much less contract offers. He needs to at least get his foot in the door... ANY door... before he worries about the contract IMO.
I think that’s naieve. If reports of him not adding a non kneeling clause is true that means he’s atleast talked to 1 team about a contract. But again, if his demands are unrealistic, that’s another problem.
Do you really think this guy is going to sign a contract with no guaranteed money?
I just want you to play ball. Thats it. i dont want you to solve the world. I want you to play ball. If you want to solve the world, go do that. if not, play ball.
see what i am getting at?
"to mess with people a certain way"?
Is that how you see it? Perhaps that's the problem right there. He's using the platform in order to bring light to an issue that wasn't being discussed nearly as much as it is now that the protesting has started. This is an issue that's been going on for centuries... this didn't just start a few years ago. And if you were a person of color seeing what's been happening, you'd be happy that someone is shedding some light on it (even if you disagree with their method(s)).
And why can't he do both? The NFL uses a whole, entire month and color to try and solve an issue that everyone agrees needs to be figured out (breast cancer) and to bring awareness to it. But guys don't have an issue with that because they know if they did they'd be sleeping on the couch the rest of their lives. You sound a lot like the 'Shut up and dribble' woman... and if that's how you really feel then yeah... I see exactly what you're getting at.
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In comment 13912923 UConn4523 said:
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do we know his contract demands? What if he’s been told he’d get a non guaranteed contract as a camp invite and he declined?
I’m guessing he wants his cake while eating it too. He wants guaranteed money so he can’t be cut in order to both get paid and continue to protest.
Well, we can both guess all we want. I don't know and at this point it's not really all that important to me because until recently he wasn't even getting any calls... much less contract offers. He needs to at least get his foot in the door... ANY door... before he worries about the contract IMO.
I think that’s naieve. If reports of him not adding a non kneeling clause is true that means he’s atleast talked to 1 team about a contract. But again, if his demands are unrealistic, that’s another problem.
Do you really think this guy is going to sign a contract with no guaranteed money?
What I'm saying is I don't know and neither do you. You can pretend to think you do... but you don't. You're calling me naive because I'm admitting this... that comes across as obnoxious to me.
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ok so he wants the platform to mess with people a certain way. Being all the examples given once before. So with that said, do you see why owners might be put off with this person?
I just want you to play ball. Thats it. i dont want you to solve the world. I want you to play ball. If you want to solve the world, go do that. if not, play ball.
see what i am getting at?
"to mess with people a certain way"?
Is that how you see it? Perhaps that's the problem right there. He's using the platform in order to bring light to an issue that wasn't being discussed nearly as much as it is now that the protesting has started. This is an issue that's been going on for centuries... this didn't just start a few years ago. And if you were a person of color seeing what's been happening, you'd be happy that someone is shedding some light on it (even if you disagree with their method(s)).
And why can't he do both? The NFL uses a whole, entire month and color to try and solve an issue that everyone agrees needs to be figured out (breast cancer) and to bring awareness to it. But guys don't have an issue with that because they know if they did they'd be sleeping on the couch the rest of their lives. You sound a lot like the 'Shut up and dribble' woman... and if that's how you really feel then yeah... I see exactly what you're getting at.
again, now you are a polarizing figure. You said it yourself. Without the nfl, he is in the history books. (which is why i still say fuck the NFL and just be the person he wants to be. He really doesnt need them) but he wants to use them for his agenda. He has a different agenda. Thats how i see it.
And no i am not shut up and dribble man. Why? Because lebron isnt wearing pig socks. he isnt wearing Che t shirts. he isnt doing all these things that can really rub people the wrong way. I honestly think his head is in the right place(though he needs to get rid of the girl) but i dont think he sees why people dont like him.
Again, this is why teams dont want him. We need to play to win. You want the platform. Sure, but this kneeling thing has rubbed alot of people the wrong way. So you cool with that? no. ok then sorry bud.
My best guess is that he’s a very hard person to work with now and he simply isn’t worth the headache. That’s on him as other kneelers have had job offers, including a player for the NY Giants.
again, now you are a polarizing figure. You said it yourself. Without the nfl, he is in the history books. (which is why i still say fuck the NFL and just be the person he wants to be. He really doesnt need them) but he wants to use them for his agenda. He has a different agenda. Thats how i see it.
And no i am not shut up and dribble man. Why? Because lebron isnt wearing pig socks. he isnt wearing Che t shirts. he isnt doing all these things that can really rub people the wrong way. I honestly think his head is in the right place(though he needs to get rid of the girl) but i dont think he sees why people dont like him.
Again, this is why teams dont want him. We need to play to win. You want the platform. Sure, but this kneeling thing has rubbed alot of people the wrong way. So you cool with that? no. ok then sorry bud.
But he still wants to play GMAN... why does he HAVE to give up one in order to do the other when he can do both (if someone will give him the chance... which I can understand why some teams don't want to do, although I disagree with it)?
But I agree with you that some of the moves Kaep has made hasn't helped his... or perhaps I should say THE... cause at all. Where I disagree is that I think he knows EXACTLY why people don't like him. In his mind, evidently, continuing to protest the way he has is still the way to bring awareness to the issue. You and I may disagree with that... but it's how he chooses to continue his life. If that means no football... it appears he's willing to make that sacrifice.
My best guess is that he’s a very hard person to work with now and he simply isn’t worth the headache. That’s on him as other kneelers have had job offers, including a player for the NY Giants.
IMO, it's because he's the face of the protests (similar to Reid in KWALL2's thread) that he's toxic. As has been said, I didn't even know who Michael Thomas was... much less that he was involved in the protest... before it was mentioned on this site. I mean... of course he wants some guarantees in his contract... who wouldn't? But that doesn't mean that he has no intention of playing if he isn't given one... which is what you appear to be thinking.