to who I think they will draft. Probably not my first choice (not that it matters) but I could see the Giants taking him if Darnold goes 1. Everyone will complain endlessly though. I have no issue with it. I kind of would like the Giants to take Mayfield, doubt that will happen though.
The giants taking any quarterback besides darnold. Out of all the quarterbacks talked about, Allen scares me the most. The biggest red flag of all the quarterbacks is his accuracy issues.
We will see what the giants will do soon enough
By the way, that article seems like agent talk more than any team information.
The giants taking any quarterback besides darnold. Out of all the quarterbacks talked about, Allen scares me the most. The biggest red flag of all the quarterbacks is his accuracy issues.
We will see what the giants will do soon enough
By the way, that article seems like agent talk more than any team information.
Eli has bad accuracy too and a weaker arm than Allen. What are you afraid of? Allen will be Eli 2.0. Build a team around him, watch him throw picks but also throw deep
tomorrow, we will hear the Giants impressed with Baker Â
I am not understanding the BS coming out of Cleveland unless they are trying for the Giants to trade but everything is just BS...positioning themselves
Highest Wonderlic
Big frame
Big hands
Hasnt been coached
Would have a HC who specializes in QBs
Can sit behind Eli for a year
Id be okay with him or Darnold at 2. You can make an aegument for both.
Really well put and I totally agree!! I initially thought it was gonna be Darnold vs Rosen (if the Giants go QB) I really believe that it’s actually Darnold vs Allen now. I know those reports are not to be trusted but I really think Allen can be very special. If Cleveland takes him I think it could really work out for them, same feelings for the Giants!
makes a lot of sense whichever way you cut it because he will need to sit behind a starter to learn a system and/or how to play in the NFL.
For the Giants current situation, this pick does make sense since Eli will be starting and the rookie will sit behind him. So, in some ways, Josh Allen is a great fit from this angle.
I think Darnold and Rosen are more plug and play types.
Highest Wonderlic
Big frame
Big hands
Hasnt been coached
Would have a HC who specializes in QBs
Can sit behind Eli for a year
Id be okay with him or Darnold at 2. You can make an aegument for both.
Hasn't been coached? Craig Bohl is a great coach.
None of those things are on a football field. Bad accuracy, bad footwork, no anticipation, bad timing, makes horrible decisions. Accuracy is even worse on the move. No touch on his passes. Physically he's exactly what you want in a QB, but everything on the field is exactly what you don't want in a QB.
I'd be absolutely shocked if he's a guy the Giants liked.
We've heard this over and over again, and Allen is the prospect we've heard the least about so it's about time his name gets dropped.
DG is trying to fleece another team in a trade down. I think it'll be darnold or Barkley but if he gets what he wants it could be Chubb Nelson or Vea with a haul that rebuilds the lines and gives us ammo later for the next starting QB if necessary.
Highest Wonderlic
Big frame
Big hands
Hasnt been coached
Would have a HC who specializes in QBs
Can sit behind Eli for a year
Id be okay with him or Darnold at 2. You can make an aegument for both.
Looks the best in shorts..
Played against weakest if competetion and still couldn't impress during those games.
Doesn't read defenses well..
And accuracy isn't taught..
RE: tomorrow, we will hear the Giants impressed with Baker Â
I am not understanding the BS coming out of Cleveland unless they are trying for the Giants to trade but everything is just BS...positioning themselves
+1. Giants may also be doing it to entice the QB desperate teams drafting behind them
and he played FCS football and was more nfl ready than Goff. Wyoming has a tougher schedule than NDSU.
Yeah but Carson Wentz actually looked great during his games.. Allen hasn't.. if you are going to play against week competetion, you need to dominate..
However, NDSU was a dominant team like Alabama at the FCS level. You can't make that comparison with Wyoming who played with lesser talent than their opposition.
The giants taking any quarterback besides darnold. Out of all the quarterbacks talked about, Allen scares me the most. The biggest red flag of all the quarterbacks is his accuracy issues.
We will see what the giants will do soon enough
By the way, that article seems like agent talk more than any team information.
Why is his college accuracy an issue but Eli 2 of 4 seasons had worst in Ole Miss? Also Eli had sub 55 percent the first few seasons with the Giants. College you get 4-7 seconds to throw, in the NFL he will throw in 2-3 seconds and his timing will improve just on that aspect. Dude is a beast
I wonder how those writing the post evaluate Eli s accuracy issues. Eli was often criticized for his completion % under Gilbride. It wasn't until Mac s system that his completion percentage improved.
Didn t Phill Simms state that Allen didn t make as many high percentage passes in Wyoming s offense.
I keep trying to convince myself if Giants to something with the pick besides quarterback I ll be fine with it. But evertime I hear or read that they are interested in one of these guys I get hopeful it s true.
Allen looked pretty good in the Senior Bowl. People like Mayock and Phil Simms like him. Don t understand the certainty with which some of you speak out against him.
The giants taking any quarterback besides darnold. Out of all the quarterbacks talked about, Allen scares me the most. The biggest red flag of all the quarterbacks is his accuracy issues.
We will see what the giants will do soon enough
By the way, that article seems like agent talk more than any team information.
Why is his college accuracy an issue but Eli 2 of 4 seasons had worst in Ole Miss? Also Eli had sub 55 percent the first few seasons with the Giants. College you get 4-7 seconds to throw, in the NFL he will throw in 2-3 seconds and his timing will improve just on that aspect. Dude is a beast
Eli played in SEC with vastly inferior talent against NFL caliber defensive players during college..
If you are concerned with his accuracy issues, then I tend to think that you don’t have 1) believe he’s coachable
and can improve and 2) don’t believe we have a staff that can help
him grow or put him in the best position to succeed.
I’d be good with Allen. He has all the physical tools. In fact everyone loves Darnold’s playmaking ability, yet Allen is more athletic. So again I’d be good with him. I’m good with Darnold, Allen, or Rosen.
If the Giants prefer Allen or Darnold (whichever one the Browns don't take) over Rosen and Mayfield...who am I to question it?
I get it when some posters prefer Barkley, Nelson, Chubb or a trade down over picking a QB. But if you believe (as I do) that the Giants need to choose their future QB at 2, then you should feel comfortable with the QB that DG, Shurmur and Shula choose, and not be concerned with all the red flags that YOU see in the QB they opt for.
If the Giants prefer Allen or Darnold (whichever one the Browns don't take) over Rosen and Mayfield...who am I to question it?
I get it when some posters prefer Barkley, Nelson, Chubb or a trade down over picking a QB. But if you believe (as I do) that the Giants need to choose their future QB at 2, then you should feel comfortable with the QB that DG, Shurmur and Shula choose, and not be concerned with all the red flags that YOU see in the QB they opt for.
I feel the same way. I prefer Rosen but if DG/PS fall in love with one of the others I'm all in.
Why is his college accuracy an issue but Eli 2 of 4 seasons had worst in Ole Miss?
Eli was a 61% accurate passer in college. One of the years he was at 48.5% and only threw 33 passes. Josh Allen is a 56% passer. He had a season where he had 67% completion - he threw 6 passes!
His other two years he was at 56%, a mark Eli never sunk to in any college season where he threw more than 33 passes.
This is the kind of BS that keeps getting brought up with Allen. "He's just as accurate as Player X!"
Except that he isn't.
If the Browns and Giants both stay put and pick QBs, Â
Highest Wonderlic
Big frame
Big hands
Hasnt been coached
Would have a HC who specializes in QBs
Can sit behind Eli for a year
Id be okay with him or Darnold at 2. You can make an aegument for both.
He apparently is doing really well on the boards and in the interviews. Teams are coming away saying "Wow". Would I be happy if we take him? Not sure, but the potential is really intriguing
Why is his college accuracy an issue but Eli 2 of 4 seasons had worst in Ole Miss?
Eli was a 61% accurate passer in college. One of the years he was at 48.5% and only threw 33 passes. Josh Allen is a 56% passer. He had a season where he had 67% completion - he threw 6 passes!
His other two years he was at 56%, a mark Eli never sunk to in any college season where he threw more than 33 passes.
This is the kind of BS that keeps getting brought up with Allen. "He's just as accurate as Player X!"
Except that he isn't.
Allen on the other hand, was also his teams entire offense at least this past season. They relied on him to be the run game as much as he was needed to throw.
I think if he gets some good coaching (He's never had a true QB coach), he could get better. He certainly will not be relied on to be the entire offense in the NFL. He would get killed that way.
So forgive me if you’ve already read this…But a while back one of the ESPN talking heads was relating a conversation he’d had with John Gruden. Gruden (who has a rep as a QB guru) made a general comment about all QB prospects when he said…
“Show me his top 15 plays and I’ll give you that.”
Meaning of course, that he felt he could "coach up" a QB and have him play up to his Top 15 Plays potential.
Well what if our QB guru (Shurmur) feels the same way?
And what if the Giants like all the other things mentioned on this thread about Allen, such as Wonderlick score, football intelligence, big hands/big body, athleticism, superior arm, etc.
If that's the case, it certainly wouldn't shock me to see them go for Allen.
is he has 0 anticipation skills. He is a see it and throw it passer. I don't know if that can be fixed in the NFL.
^This. Allen doesn't throw with anticipation, which is a must in the NFL given the small throwing windows. Accuracy problems like his don't get fixed in the NFL. Way too much of a risk at #2. Stop drafting players based on "measurables." That's what got Reese into so much trouble.
not wanting Allen at #2 to saying he'll be a complete failure.
Here's the point - at #2, he has far too many red flags to justify the selection, especially in a crucial draft that the Giants are facing this year.
Grabbing him in the 3rd round like Davis Webb - awesome. Picking him at #2 and see all of his accuracy issues and inability to scan the field come to fruition - and that team who picked him is fucked.
So forgive me if you’ve already read this…But a while back one of the ESPN talking heads was relating a conversation he’d had with John Gruden. Gruden (who has a rep as a QB guru) made a general comment about all QB prospects when he said…
“Show me his top 15 plays and I’ll give you that.”
Meaning of course, that he felt he could "coach up" a QB and have him play up to his Top 15 Plays potential.
Well what if our QB guru (Shurmur) feels the same way?
And what if the Giants like all the other things mentioned on this thread about Allen, such as Wonderlick score, football intelligence, big hands/big body, athleticism, superior arm, etc.
If that's the case, it certainly wouldn't shock me to see them go for Allen.
and Allen’s Top 15 plays could probably be recreated by maybe a handful of guys to have EVER played in this game. His “wow” plays are more like “OMFG HOW DID HE DO THAT!?” Plays. Kid is just built different.
Eli played in SEC with vastly inferior talent against NFL caliber defensive players during college..
The year before Eli got drafted, his guard, Ben Claxton, got drafted in the 2003 draft. The year after Eli got drafted, his center, Chris Spencer, got drafted in the first round and his tackle, Marcus Johnson, got drafted in the second round of the 2005 draft. And his guard, Tre Stallings, got drafted, I believe, the following year. At least ten players he played with got drafted.
If you’d like, I can list all the players he played with who made the All SEC team as well.
So this endless pity party for Eli - “poor Eli never has enough talent” - is one of the most disingenuous themes ever perpetuated at BBI.
- He can't process the defenses, make checks at the LOS in protections, and read blitzes to get the ball out to hot read. Dan Orlovsky (former NFL QB) broke this down. This is not taught.
- He's wildly inaccurate. This is not taught.
- He bails from the pocket at the hint of any pressure. This is not taught.
- He missed the right reads ALL the time. This is bad.
In 2017, Allen had just four games where he threw for more than two touchdown passes and they came against teams with a combined 9-37 record -- Texas State, New Mexico, Central Michigan, and Gardner-Webb. If you remove those four games against absolutely inferior competition, Allen completed just 53.3 percent of his pass attempts for 877 yards with four touchdowns and six interceptions in seven games. He averaged just 125 passing yards per game against these teams. If you decide to include those four games, the most yards he passed for in any single game was 208.
How can the Giants set their franchise back into the REALLY dark ages? Drafting this guy at 2.
We will see what the giants will do soon enough
By the way, that article seems like agent talk more than any team information.
We will see what the giants will do soon enough
By the way, that article seems like agent talk more than any team information.
Eli has bad accuracy too and a weaker arm than Allen. What are you afraid of? Allen will be Eli 2.0. Build a team around him, watch him throw picks but also throw deep
Big frame
Big hands
Hasnt been coached
Would have a HC who specializes in QBs
Can sit behind Eli for a year
Id be okay with him or Darnold at 2. You can make an aegument for both.
Big frame
Big hands
Hasnt been coached
Would have a HC who specializes in QBs
Can sit behind Eli for a year
Id be okay with him or Darnold at 2. You can make an aegument for both.
Agree with this 100%
Big frame
Big hands
Hasnt been coached
Would have a HC who specializes in QBs
Can sit behind Eli for a year
Id be okay with him or Darnold at 2. You can make an aegument for both.
Really well put and I totally agree!! I initially thought it was gonna be Darnold vs Rosen (if the Giants go QB) I really believe that it’s actually Darnold vs Allen now. I know those reports are not to be trusted but I really think Allen can be very special. If Cleveland takes him I think it could really work out for them, same feelings for the Giants!
For the Giants current situation, this pick does make sense since Eli will be starting and the rookie will sit behind him. So, in some ways, Josh Allen is a great fit from this angle.
I think Darnold and Rosen are more plug and play types.
It's like players who have surgery. It's always a successful surgery. Just once I want to hear the surgery didn't go as well as they thought it would
Can't wait for the draft to get here
It's like players who have surgery. It's always a successful surgery. Just once I want to hear the surgery didn't go as well as they thought it would
Can't wait for the draft to get here
With this team, don't say that. Please.
Big frame
Big hands
Hasnt been coached
Would have a HC who specializes in QBs
Can sit behind Eli for a year
Id be okay with him or Darnold at 2. You can make an aegument for both.
Hasn't been coached? Craig Bohl is a great coach.
None of those things are on a football field. Bad accuracy, bad footwork, no anticipation, bad timing, makes horrible decisions. Accuracy is even worse on the move. No touch on his passes. Physically he's exactly what you want in a QB, but everything on the field is exactly what you don't want in a QB.
I'd be absolutely shocked if he's a guy the Giants liked.
DG is trying to fleece another team in a trade down. I think it'll be darnold or Barkley but if he gets what he wants it could be Chubb Nelson or Vea with a haul that rebuilds the lines and gives us ammo later for the next starting QB if necessary.
Big frame
Big hands
Hasnt been coached
Would have a HC who specializes in QBs
Can sit behind Eli for a year
Id be okay with him or Darnold at 2. You can make an aegument for both.
Looks the best in shorts..
Played against weakest if competetion and still couldn't impress during those games.
Doesn't read defenses well..
And accuracy isn't taught..
Yeah but Carson Wentz actually looked great during his games.. Allen hasn't.. if you are going to play against week competetion, you need to dominate..
We will see what the giants will do soon enough
By the way, that article seems like agent talk more than any team information.
Why is his college accuracy an issue but Eli 2 of 4 seasons had worst in Ole Miss? Also Eli had sub 55 percent the first few seasons with the Giants. College you get 4-7 seconds to throw, in the NFL he will throw in 2-3 seconds and his timing will improve just on that aspect. Dude is a beast
Then you throw him in NY market.
He could handle it, but you just never know how people would react until they actually play in NY.
Didn t Phill Simms state that Allen didn t make as many high percentage passes in Wyoming s offense.
I keep trying to convince myself if Giants to something with the pick besides quarterback I ll be fine with it. But evertime I hear or read that they are interested in one of these guys I get hopeful it s true.
Allen looked pretty good in the Senior Bowl. People like Mayock and Phil Simms like him. Don t understand the certainty with which some of you speak out against him.
Quote:
The giants taking any quarterback besides darnold. Out of all the quarterbacks talked about, Allen scares me the most. The biggest red flag of all the quarterbacks is his accuracy issues.
We will see what the giants will do soon enough
By the way, that article seems like agent talk more than any team information.
Why is his college accuracy an issue but Eli 2 of 4 seasons had worst in Ole Miss? Also Eli had sub 55 percent the first few seasons with the Giants. College you get 4-7 seconds to throw, in the NFL he will throw in 2-3 seconds and his timing will improve just on that aspect. Dude is a beast
Eli played in SEC with vastly inferior talent against NFL caliber defensive players during college..
and can improve and 2) don’t believe we have a staff that can help
him grow or put him in the best position to succeed.
I’d be good with Allen. He has all the physical tools. In fact everyone loves Darnold’s playmaking ability, yet Allen is more athletic. So again I’d be good with him. I’m good with Darnold, Allen, or Rosen.
I think Rosen is the pick
I get it when some posters prefer Barkley, Nelson, Chubb or a trade down over picking a QB. But if you believe (as I do) that the Giants need to choose their future QB at 2, then you should feel comfortable with the QB that DG, Shurmur and Shula choose, and not be concerned with all the red flags that YOU see in the QB they opt for.
I get it when some posters prefer Barkley, Nelson, Chubb or a trade down over picking a QB. But if you believe (as I do) that the Giants need to choose their future QB at 2, then you should feel comfortable with the QB that DG, Shurmur and Shula choose, and not be concerned with all the red flags that YOU see in the QB they opt for.
I feel the same way. I prefer Rosen but if DG/PS fall in love with one of the others I'm all in.
Eli was a 61% accurate passer in college. One of the years he was at 48.5% and only threw 33 passes. Josh Allen is a 56% passer. He had a season where he had 67% completion - he threw 6 passes!
His other two years he was at 56%, a mark Eli never sunk to in any college season where he threw more than 33 passes.
This is the kind of BS that keeps getting brought up with Allen. "He's just as accurate as Player X!"
Except that he isn't.
Big frame
Big hands
Hasnt been coached
Would have a HC who specializes in QBs
Can sit behind Eli for a year
Id be okay with him or Darnold at 2. You can make an aegument for both.
He apparently is doing really well on the boards and in the interviews. Teams are coming away saying "Wow". Would I be happy if we take him? Not sure, but the potential is really intriguing
Quote:
Why is his college accuracy an issue but Eli 2 of 4 seasons had worst in Ole Miss?
Eli was a 61% accurate passer in college. One of the years he was at 48.5% and only threw 33 passes. Josh Allen is a 56% passer. He had a season where he had 67% completion - he threw 6 passes!
His other two years he was at 56%, a mark Eli never sunk to in any college season where he threw more than 33 passes.
This is the kind of BS that keeps getting brought up with Allen. "He's just as accurate as Player X!"
Except that he isn't.
Allen on the other hand, was also his teams entire offense at least this past season. They relied on him to be the run game as much as he was needed to throw.
I think if he gets some good coaching (He's never had a true QB coach), he could get better. He certainly will not be relied on to be the entire offense in the NFL. He would get killed that way.
“Show me his top 15 plays and I’ll give you that.”
Meaning of course, that he felt he could "coach up" a QB and have him play up to his Top 15 Plays potential.
Well what if our QB guru (Shurmur) feels the same way?
And what if the Giants like all the other things mentioned on this thread about Allen, such as Wonderlick score, football intelligence, big hands/big body, athleticism, superior arm, etc.
If that's the case, it certainly wouldn't shock me to see them go for Allen.
^This. Allen doesn't throw with anticipation, which is a must in the NFL given the small throwing windows. Accuracy problems like his don't get fixed in the NFL. Way too much of a risk at #2. Stop drafting players based on "measurables." That's what got Reese into so much trouble.
Here's the point - at #2, he has far too many red flags to justify the selection, especially in a crucial draft that the Giants are facing this year.
Grabbing him in the 3rd round like Davis Webb - awesome. Picking him at #2 and see all of his accuracy issues and inability to scan the field come to fruition - and that team who picked him is fucked.
“Show me his top 15 plays and I’ll give you that.”
Meaning of course, that he felt he could "coach up" a QB and have him play up to his Top 15 Plays potential.
Well what if our QB guru (Shurmur) feels the same way?
And what if the Giants like all the other things mentioned on this thread about Allen, such as Wonderlick score, football intelligence, big hands/big body, athleticism, superior arm, etc.
If that's the case, it certainly wouldn't shock me to see them go for Allen.
Eli played in SEC with vastly inferior talent against NFL caliber defensive players during college..
The year before Eli got drafted, his guard, Ben Claxton, got drafted in the 2003 draft. The year after Eli got drafted, his center, Chris Spencer, got drafted in the first round and his tackle, Marcus Johnson, got drafted in the second round of the 2005 draft. And his guard, Tre Stallings, got drafted, I believe, the following year. At least ten players he played with got drafted.
If you’d like, I can list all the players he played with who made the All SEC team as well.
So this endless pity party for Eli - “poor Eli never has enough talent” - is one of the most disingenuous themes ever perpetuated at BBI.
- He's wildly inaccurate. This is not taught.
- He bails from the pocket at the hint of any pressure. This is not taught.
- He missed the right reads ALL the time. This is bad.
In 2017, Allen had just four games where he threw for more than two touchdown passes and they came against teams with a combined 9-37 record -- Texas State, New Mexico, Central Michigan, and Gardner-Webb. If you remove those four games against absolutely inferior competition, Allen completed just 53.3 percent of his pass attempts for 877 yards with four touchdowns and six interceptions in seven games. He averaged just 125 passing yards per game against these teams. If you decide to include those four games, the most yards he passed for in any single game was 208.
How can the Giants set their franchise back into the REALLY dark ages? Drafting this guy at 2.
Take away Allen's cannon and what attributes does he bring to the table that indicates he'll be successful?
Take away Allen's cannon and what attributes does he bring to the table that indicates he'll be successful?
Mobility and athleticism.