"Oklahoma City TV announcer Brian Davis has been suspended by the team for Game 1 of the Thunder’s first-round series against the Jazz after he used the phrase, “out of his cotton-pickin’ mind” to describe Russell Westbrook in the team’s final regular-season game."
I while back I posted about an ad that was running here in the Central VA area on talk radio with the use of the phrase 'cotton-pickin’ but it did not come across as poorly as the OKC announcer's choice of words did. That phrase is pretty loaded for me, I haven't heard it used in quite a long time, its no longer parlance if you will - even in the south. But what say you?
Is this an overreaction or are is the suspension correct here?
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My mother in law and father in law, both, picked cotton as children with their respective families and many others in Missouri. They are white, and according to them, it was not uncommon for both white and black families to be working in the cotton fields. Together? I do not know.
I think people should look more at intent. I'm quite confident that the announcer either didn't know the racist undertones of the phrase, much less intend it to be racist, as most people don't, even though they've probably heard it before.
I also didn't take exception to Bob McNair's comment about the "inmates running the asylum." It's a common phrase, and nobody thinks that the person saying it is actually thinking of the people referenced as inmates or crazy. It simply means that the subordinates are running the show when that shouldn't be the case, and control of the operation is lost.
It's intent. In neither case should it be assumed that the phrases were racist, as those phrases have become somewhat common idioms that are not typically used in racist ways.
But it goes back to the fact that everybody is hypersensitive these days.
He was speaking about a certain race?
Quality.
All I do know is that it's a phrase I've heard since I was born plenty of times and not once did I think it was racially charged. The 'monkey' reference from Jimmy the Greek... I personally don't think it was THAT big a deal unless he's been known to make racially charged statements like that in the past... but I can at least understand where that might be offensive.
But 'cotton-pickin mind'?
Wow.
I think people should look more at intent. I'm quite confident that the announcer either didn't know the racist undertones of the phrase, much less intend it to be racist, as most people don't, even though they've probably heard it before.
I also didn't take exception to Bob McNair's comment about the "inmates running the asylum." It's a common phrase, and nobody thinks that the person saying it is actually thinking of the people referenced as inmates or crazy. It simply means that the subordinates are running the show when that shouldn't be the case, and control of the operation is lost.
It's intent. In neither case should it be assumed that the phrases were racist, as those phrases have become somewhat common idioms that are not typically used in racist ways.
But it goes back to the fact that everybody is hypersensitive these days.
I disagree about McNair only because I've heard rumor of racist things he's said and done in his past. So he allegedly has a history of exhibiting racist behavior in his past... or so I've heard/read/seen.
But this is ridiculous and I agree intent should definitely be taken into account as I'm pretty sure the announcer wouldn't go to the 'racist' angle in the middle of a basketball game when speaking about a black player on purpose. I'm sorry but even a 1 game suspension to me is too much... I personally might not have even made him apologize (but if he wanted to I'd understand).
It was more common when I was a kid also. I think I remember it being used on Bugs Bunny as well. Back then I kind of took it as a redneck kind of way of someone not using the word d*mn and that some people used as a substitute phrasing.
Agreed. 1 game just admits guilt but doesn’t really punish. I think it’s an overreaction but if they feel he was wrong than fire him.
Like posse?
If the comment before is true that it is a phrased that was used in the south to describe someone being "crazy" or "out of your mind" regardless of color, then the announcer was actually praising him in the way those other phrases are commonly used. if he used either word in place of cotton-picking, everyone would understand the speaker was not legitimately questioning his mental health.
either way there are larger issues in the fight for equality to focus on, this is a non-starter for me but im sure the social justice brigade will be all over it.
strange world we live in.
All I do know is that it's a phrase I've heard since I was born plenty of times and not once did I think it was racially charged. The 'monkey' reference from Jimmy the Greek... I personally don't think it was THAT big a deal unless he's been known to make racially charged statements like that in the past... but I can at least understand where that might be offensive.
But 'cotton-pickin mind'?
Wow.
I believe the "monkey" comment was Howard Cosell. Jimmy the Greek though did really say some inexcusable things IMO.
Like Arsenio's Band?
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But I don't recall it ever being a racially-charged term.
Like posse?
this one still bothers me, I think the outrage against these type of things really take away from the overall movement.
and aside from the diversity/equality point, big business is not a friendly place, it is full of some very cold people who do not need to use what is seen as subtly, racist remarks to offend or screw you over. Thicker skin would go along way.
Exactly.
Yes, "Look at that little monkey" was Cosell. Jimmy the Greek said that black players were more athletic because of selective breeding during slavery.
And yet you say stupid repetitive shit on here every single day.
You really crossed the mine there with "master bedroom"
I'm really a lil upset that he was suspended. I just got finished ranting about it to a co-worker for the past half hour.
Also as a kid, one of my favorite Tom and Jerry cartoons was of them in the Wild West with Tom rolling up a cigarette. He used Jerry to lick it, to roll it up and then fired a gun to light it. Heard that episode is now banned in the US.
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I believe the "monkey" comment was Howard Cosell. Jimmy the Greek though did really say some inexcusable things IMO.
a black History professor from Harvard confirmed that what Jimmmy said was absolutely true
Yes, "Look at that little monkey" was Cosell. Jimmy the Greek said that black players were more athletic because of selective breeding during slavery.
The comparison this morning was the oft-repeated statement that military people or military supporters, or whoever shouldn’t be offended by kneeling for the National Anthem because the kneelers state that their intention is not to disparage or disrespect the military.
Seems like the same thing to me. How do you reconcile the two examples?
McNair, while similar in terms of what he said is a known expression, said "inmates running the prison" instead of "asylum."
he also said he was rootin' tootin'
I know I’m not answering your question but your last sentence, while likely true in this day and age, is almost impossible to manage to. It eliminates spontaneity and honesty and basically reduces communication to a safety zone of pre-determined safe phrases.
The comparison this morning was the oft-repeated statement that military people or military supporters, or whoever shouldn’t be offended by kneeling for the National Anthem because the kneelers state that their intention is not to disparage or disrespect the military.
Seems like the same thing to me. How do you reconcile the two examples?
You take words for what they are. Tools to communicate thoughts and ideas. If the thought being conveyed is ugly and the intent is to disparage, by all means be offended.
If somebody builds a cross to burn on somebody's lawn, I'm not gonna get upset at wood, hammer nails & gasoline, but plenty of people certainly do exactly that with words and symbols.
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In this case, there was clearly no malice, prejudice, or ill intent. So, his punishment was not because of him but because a recipient (or recipients) was offended. So, the offended person takes precedence over the lack of intention to do harm and the burden is on the speaker to be aware that someone might be offended and refrain from that behavior.
I know I’m not answering your question but your last sentence, while likely true in this day and age, is almost impossible to manage to. It eliminates spontaneity and honesty and basically reduces communication to a safety zone of pre-determined safe phrases.
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Hahaha
And maybe I'm out of my cotton pickin' mind, but I don't see what's so offensive about that one thing Jimmy the Greek said. Do many people think black people are GENERALLY a little more athletically gifted? (About 12% of the U.S. population, but 75%-80% of the NFL and NBA population - just sayin'.) There WAS at least some careful/selective "breeding" back during slavery -- seems like a neutral, (somewhat) scientific explanation to me. Now, if he'd said blacks are better athletes but it's "balanced" by their lower intelligence -- THAT's horrific and racist.
And maybe I'm out of my cotton pickin' mind, but I don't see what's so offensive about that one thing Jimmy the Greek said. Do many people think black people are GENERALLY a little more athletically gifted? (About 12% of the U.S. population, but 75%-80% of the NFL and NBA population - just sayin'.) There WAS at least some careful/selective "breeding" back during slavery -- seems like a neutral, (somewhat) scientific explanation to me. Now, if he'd said blacks are better athletes but it's "balanced" by their lower intelligence -- THAT's horrific and racist.
Do many people think Asian people are GENERALLY a little more academically gifted?
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the state that started the Civil War and I didn't associate "cotton pickin'" with slavery and negro field hands or whatever until it occurred to me a few years ago (I'm 52) -- believe it or not. I STILL say it on occasion. To me it just means crazy, but now, after my epiphany, no, I would not say it to a black person.
And maybe I'm out of my cotton pickin' mind, but I don't see what's so offensive about that one thing Jimmy the Greek said. Do many people think black people are GENERALLY a little more athletically gifted? (About 12% of the U.S. population, but 75%-80% of the NFL and NBA population - just sayin'.) There WAS at least some careful/selective "breeding" back during slavery -- seems like a neutral, (somewhat) scientific explanation to me. Now, if he'd said blacks are better athletes but it's "balanced" by their lower intelligence -- THAT's horrific and racist.
Do many people think Asian people are GENERALLY a little more academically gifted?
We’re universally more academically gifted.
Or.... dance....
I don’t like to see people drawn and quartered for these things (first time offense, plausible deniability, etc), but a two-minute minor isn’t an awful punishment.
he also said he was rootin' tootin'
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he also said he was rootin' tootin'
he should be banned an extra game for mocking people with irritable bowel syndrome!
I am ashamed and embarrassed I even typed it and sincerely apologize to those with IBS. I also apologize if IBS is somehow offensive to the black community--if there is an acronym that was or will be offensive in the future.
This...While I haven't heard it in years, it was a common phrase growing up.
I'm incredulous when people say "He jewed me down" and even more incredulous when they have no idea of what they really said when I explain the derivation.
But I get it cause I used to use 'gipped' till someone explained the derivation to me.
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The phrase's history is steeped in racism, however, as with many words and phrases, people forget and the phrase became something other than it's original usage.
I think people should look more at intent. I'm quite confident that the announcer either didn't know the racist undertones of the phrase, much less intend it to be racist, as most people don't, even though they've probably heard it before.
I also didn't take exception to Bob McNair's comment about the "inmates running the asylum." It's a common phrase, and nobody thinks that the person saying it is actually thinking of the people referenced as inmates or crazy. It simply means that the subordinates are running the show when that shouldn't be the case, and control of the operation is lost.
It's intent. In neither case should it be assumed that the phrases were racist, as those phrases have become somewhat common idioms that are not typically used in racist ways.
But it goes back to the fact that everybody is hypersensitive these days.
I disagree about McNair only because I've heard rumor of racist things he's said and done in his past. So he allegedly has a history of exhibiting racist behavior in his past... or so I've heard/read/seen.
But this is ridiculous and I agree intent should definitely be taken into account as I'm pretty sure the announcer wouldn't go to the 'racist' angle in the middle of a basketball game when speaking about a black player on purpose. I'm sorry but even a 1 game suspension to me is too much... I personally might not have even made him apologize (but if he wanted to I'd understand).
Thank you for being a voice of reason
I'm incredulous when people say "He jewed me down" and even more incredulous when they have no idea of what they really said when I explain the derivation.
But I get it cause I used to use 'gipped' till someone explained the derivation to me.
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Offensive? I don't know.
How about "in high cotton" or "make hay while the sun shines"
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I think its way overdone.
It was more common when I was a kid also. I think I remember it being used on Bugs Bunny as well. Back then I kind of took it as a redneck kind of way of someone not using the word d*mn and that some people used as a substitute phrasing.
It has its genesis in the 1940s, and refers to Southerners in general. It may or may not have evolved to have a more specific target. For me when growing up, it was a generic term, without discernible racial overtones.
reacting to something like this, dilutes the outrage over real slights and slurs.
I'd have to put on the World Darts Championship
In his line of work, and on that level, every word he says does matter and there has to always be a conscious effort to communicate in a way that takes in account how a large audience will receive it.
The apology he gave was an appropriate fix in this situation. The one game suspension seems to be just an added touch by the network to make sure they don't short-change the issue.
The guy isn't losing his career or that much money over this, and I doubt anyone actually believes he's a racist - I think this was a pretty ideal resolution to the matter. Let's move on.
Dot or feather?
Stubhub? Didn’t realize they were run by natives.
Agree, ridiculous that this was even a discussion. America!
In his line of work, and on that level, every word he says does matter and there has to always be a conscious effort to communicate in a way that takes in account how a large audience will receive it.
The apology he gave was an appropriate fix in this situation. The one game suspension seems to be just an added touch by the network to make sure they don't short-change the issue.
The guy isn't losing his career or that much money over this, and I doubt anyone actually believes he's a racist - I think this was a pretty ideal resolution to the matter. Let's move on.
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but there's an infinite number of other superlatives that the announcer could have used to describe a black NBA player that doesn't hark back to slavery.
In his line of work, and on that level, every word he says does matter and there has to always be a conscious effort to communicate in a way that takes in account how a large audience will receive it.
The apology he gave was an appropriate fix in this situation. The one game suspension seems to be just an added touch by the network to make sure they don't short-change the issue.
The guy isn't losing his career or that much money over this, and I doubt anyone actually believes he's a racist - I think this was a pretty ideal resolution to the matter. Let's move on.
so if he had no intent and didn’t do anything wrong, it seems like *any* punishment, as trivial as it seems to us, seems really wrong to me..
Whether he did something wrong and whether he had any intent are two separate things. He made a mistake - in every line of work when a mistake is made it's normal for there to be some form of corrective action. No difference here.
Sometimes I really can't stand people.
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In comment 13913982 eclipz928 said:
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but there's an infinite number of other superlatives that the announcer could have used to describe a black NBA player that doesn't hark back to slavery.
In his line of work, and on that level, every word he says does matter and there has to always be a conscious effort to communicate in a way that takes in account how a large audience will receive it.
The apology he gave was an appropriate fix in this situation. The one game suspension seems to be just an added touch by the network to make sure they don't short-change the issue.
The guy isn't losing his career or that much money over this, and I doubt anyone actually believes he's a racist - I think this was a pretty ideal resolution to the matter. Let's move on.
so if he had no intent and didn’t do anything wrong, it seems like *any* punishment, as trivial as it seems to us, seems really wrong to me..
Whether he did something wrong and whether he had any intent are two separate things. He made a mistake - in every line of work when a mistake is made it's normal for there to be some form of corrective action. No difference here.