About Omameh come from? I hadn’t read anything so negative elsewhere about Omameh. I thought the guy was mediocre, hopefully a little better than mediocre.
Remarks make him sound like John Jerry, part 2. If that is the case, Giants seriously overpaid and should just keep Jerry.
Every day Flowers misses, that positions Wheeler one step closer to beating him out. Little things like bonding with the rest of line, talking to coaches to bigger things like taking snaps with the OL.
Flowers when he gets to camp is going to be #2 on the depth chart and is going to just fight to make the team. Here's to someone like Wheeler raising the competition level.
Screw Flowers. For whatever reason he's decided not to attend camp, it's a sign of me before team.
Flowers days are numbered. Addition by subtraction.
this is one of the things I'm really gonna miss this year is Â
With his attitude he is in his last year with the Giants. There is no way they pick up his 5th year option, and if there isn't improvement in his play and attitude they won't pursue a new contract with him. The job is there for Wheeler to take away.
I would have been disappointed if Wheeler didn't add muscle weight Â
I am not sold on Wheeler......he is another Reese project.....this team is strapped by the cap.....there are not many moves it can make on the OL other than hit on a player in the draft....
Jones is nothing special, and may be just a one year rental....but he is a guy who will give you 100% of what he has, and hopefully can play 16 games....
The enigma of Flowers continues, especially with him not showing up.....is this a reaction to the countdown to May 3rd?
The Giants are forced to finally try Flowers at another position, and how that will pan out will be a mystery.....
Hal Hunter(?) has his work cut out for him.....can he somehow put together a group of guys that can protect Eli? Will we finally see a successful screen pass? Will we be able to convert short yardage situations? It's asking a lot....as far as the draft goes, we may not go OL until the third Round, and the odds drop dramatically by then....
But this is DG and co., not the Reese machine.....but until we see the results in preseason, we have no idea of how this draft will pan out.....
One thing I want to see with this offense and the OL, is some sort of urgency....it just did not seem to be there the last two preseasons....and Eli has to step up his game in preseason, also.....this offense has a lot of work to do....
I just felt this offense was not ready out of the gate the last two seasons...
I really thought he was one if the best UDFA available and a great pickup. But, we really didn't see enough last year to say anything definitive about this year. I think RT is a wide open competition. Either he or Flowers will win the job; nobody is pencilled in just yet.
I am not sold on Wheeler......he is another Reese project.....this team is strapped by the cap.....there are not many moves it can make on the OL other than hit on a player in the draft....
Jones is nothing special, and may be just a one year rental....but he is a guy who will give you 100% of what he has, and hopefully can play 16 games....
The enigma of Flowers continues, especially with him not showing up.....is this a reaction to the countdown to May 3rd?
The Giants are forced to finally try Flowers at another position, and how that will pan out will be a mystery.....
Hal Hunter(?) has his work cut out for him.....can he somehow put together a group of guys that can protect Eli? Will we finally see a successful screen pass? Will we be able to convert short yardage situations? It's asking a lot....as far as the draft goes, we may not go OL until the third Round, and the odds drop dramatically by then....
But this is DG and co., not the Reese machine.....but until we see the results in preseason, we have no idea of how this draft will pan out.....
One thing I want to see with this offense and the OL, is some sort of urgency....it just did not seem to be there the last two preseasons....and Eli has to step up his game in preseason, also.....this offense has a lot of work to do....
I just felt this offense was not ready out of the gate the last two seasons...
Don't forget they also signed Omameh who will most likely playing one of the G positions (hopefully pushing Jerry to the bench)
I am not sold on Wheeler......he is another Reese project.....this team is strapped by the cap.....there are not many moves it can make on the OL other than hit on a player in the draft....
Jones is nothing special, and may be just a one year rental....but he is a guy who will give you 100% of what he has, and hopefully can play 16 games....
The enigma of Flowers continues, especially with him not showing up.....is this a reaction to the countdown to May 3rd?
The Giants are forced to finally try Flowers at another position, and how that will pan out will be a mystery.....
Hal Hunter(?) has his work cut out for him.....can he somehow put together a group of guys that can protect Eli? Will we finally see a successful screen pass? Will we be able to convert short yardage situations? It's asking a lot....as far as the draft goes, we may not go OL until the third Round, and the odds drop dramatically by then....
But this is DG and co., not the Reese machine.....but until we see the results in preseason, we have no idea of how this draft will pan out.....
One thing I want to see with this offense and the OL, is some sort of urgency....it just did not seem to be there the last two preseasons....and Eli has to step up his game in preseason, also.....this offense has a lot of work to do....
I just felt this offense was not ready out of the gate the last two seasons...
I agree the Giants were not ready to start the season the last two seasons. I think part of the problem was that McAdoo placed too much emphasis on starting the season healthy, at the expense of having them ready for the physical nature of the regular season. Also, let’s reaffirm that Eli played terribly , as well, perhaps because he was neurotic about the oline , but, whatever , he’s supposed to be the “franchise.”
But “sense of urgency” is an air-filled cliche . The Giants need better players . They need a better quarterback . They need their best players to be healthy. They need their very best player signed to a long-term deal.
As for the thread start, it’s obvious Wheeler has talent. He has better feet and hands than Flowers. But he needs to get stronger . He’s prone to the bull rush and he’s late out of stance , which leads to problems, especially on the road.
Lastly I’m not sure Gettleman has improved the overall quality of the line so far this off-season. He now has a competent , professional LT but he lost two guys who, regardless of what BBI followers think of them, signed 50 million dollars worth of guaranteed contracts with other teams .
Half empty guy then I am, which is saying something. There were two knocks on Wheeler coming out and the second one caused him to be un drafted. One he was not nearly strong enough and two more importantly, his attitude, desire and dedication were severely questioned. On talent he was a mid round draft choice. On attitude he was a "don't bother". I'd he has worked hard off season to get to 320 BOTH those questions would be answered.
Gettleman's history of developing successful UDFA Offensive Linemen can only be further inspiration for Wheeler. I would love to see him win the job and emerge as a top right tackle in this league.
Have to hope that Solder and Omameh are anchors on the left side and Jones is competent enough at center. But the right side of the O-Line is very much up for grabs and I have to believe that at least one or both of the 2018 starters are still not yet on this roster...
The O-Line has been the bane of this team and McAdoo's idiotic offensive scheme for years now... Giants are a losing team again in 2018 if they screw this up...
Wheeler could be: on draft day, in a random trade down or for the 2nd round pick, if you are presented with a choice between a maybe starting quality offensive tackle and a potentially game changing type defensive player or running back, you want to be free to take the potentially game changing player as opposed to the plug a spot player.
So, being tuned in right now shows a lot, or could show, for wheeler, in that regard.
considering the dire need for OL and I'm hoping for the best here but 14lbs could be bad weight just as well as good weight.
There was a lot wrong in the first clip (which was the Thanksgiving game, I was there freezing my ass off) from a technique stand point and it was some of the same problems he had when I watched him at USC. Keeps his hands a little too low, elbows are wide, and his punch suffers with no pop and awful timing. He drops his head losing Kerrigan and stops his feet. Kerrigan had absolutely no trouble running the arc. If Eli doesn't have the pocket awareness he has that would've been ugly. People need to understand Wheeler is a long way off. Best we can hope for right now is that he fills the role as our back up swing tackle while he gets stronger, which is also obvious in the second clip.
I'm down on Flowers right now as well, but having him work at RT is still the best case scenario.
I will say this about Wheeler, he is a much better fit for the zone schemes NYG will run under Shurmur/Hunter.
When you miss on a high pick you not only burn that spot but potentially have to eat an additional one down the line as you seek the replacement for a 'hole' as opposed to the proactive move for an upside x factor.
That said, Flowers may be like Russia, that is; not nearly as much of a threat (to his opponents) as originally billed, but not nearly as incompetent, as we now assume, either.
With regard to the percieved hierarchy of skills, (from guard, to right tackle, to left tackle) what we have seen a gazillion times over the years, us that it's very individual and not necessarily that way:
Some players thrive at left and suck elsewhere. Some excel at right guard and suck elsewhere.
We've seen college level tackles get years of 3rd string at guard and not make it, never having had a shot at OT.
Each player is different. We might not have our right OT yet.
Of a hierarchy of skills is that it could seriously reduce %ages in player development:
For example Wheeler: If his best potentail is at left tackle, if he's not yet ready at right tackle, according to hierarchy of skills theory, you would not try him at second string left tackle.
And possibly waste a quality starting left tackle down the line based on the assumption that a second year player who didn't make it at right wouldn't make it in his third or a later year year at left. Which is not well founded logic.
Tends to be random (jigsaw puzzle) as opposed to hierarchical (ladder).
So, it's possible to have a player with (choose a number) 85% potentail at left tackle, 65% at right and 40% at guard.
According to a hierarchy of skills theory, if that player didn't do well -initially- at left, you would try him then at right (lowering his chance of success) and then if he doesn't do well enough at that, at guard (gets cut).
Which for that particular individual would be exactly the wrong thing. For a player with that profile you'd keep them at 2nd, 3rd or 4th left tackle and practice practice practice.
I've never heard of an NFL linemaN GETTING HURT IN MEETINGS. They aren't allowed on field this week and next. I think Robert Gallery has more trade value than Flowers and he hasn't played in 10 years.
Wheeler getting stronger is huge for us, 14 pounds is a lot Â
With Solder and Omameh, and Wheeler adding this weight and strength, its like 3 new players. I also think we draft another OL player in the first 3 rounds, so we could have 4 new players really contributing
Wheeler has the upside of a very, very good pass blocking OT Â
RE: Was one of the top 3
djm : 10:54 am : link : reply
It’s gonna be wheeler. Flowers won’t make the team in my view.
I can't see the Giants cutting a guy with 2.4M guaranteed, and representing 4.5M in dead money....we are kind of stuck with him as a starter/back up.....May 3rd is fast approaching for Flowers.....him not showing up means he know what will happen May 3rd.....
I've never heard of an NFL linemaN GETTING HURT IN MEETINGS. They aren't allowed on field this week and next. I think Robert Gallery has more trade value than Flowers and he hasn't played in 10 years.
Besides meetings, there was strength and conditioning. Billy Price partially tore his pectoral at the combine. Injuries can happen while lifting weights. If Flowers injures himself at the Giants facility or a team sanctioned event, then the Giants are liable for his treatment/injury settlement. If he gets injured on his own time, then the Giants can place him on the NFI list and withhold his salary.
Look, I don't think he has much trade value, but he is still a young first round pick that some team might be willing to take a chance on even if it is a 6th round pick. The fact is he's not a Gettleman Guy. There were reported issues at the end of the season that left Hart out of work and Flowers having to explain himself. If it wasn't for the draft pedigree, he likely would have been joining Hart.
than I was to get Bisnowaty in the 6th round. Wheeler just seems like the type of player who is going to be a very good offensive linemen if he can stay healthy.
Draft our favorite Center somewhere in Round Two or Three
Also spend two picks on Big D-linemen (over 320)
I don't think Flowers has any trade value right now. Like, literally: I don't think anyone will give anything for him. The Giants don't want him, he doesn't want to be there, why give any assets for him when it looks like he'll be cut anyway?
Plus, at this point, they might have to pay another team to take him, sort of the way Cleveland got a pick to take Brock Osweiler off Houston's hands. Flowers is not good on the field, not good in the clubhouse.
I still hope he blossoms with the Giants and becomes a great lineman. But I always hope anybody on the team does well. Not optimistic about him anymore though.
I think Omameh is a better fit at RG and Wheeler is the same weight as Pugh was last season. If Wheeler has gotten much stronger then he could be a similar player to Pugh at LG.
Maybe more to some other team even at left tackle. He is still young enough that if he had a fresh start he might improve. Gettleman said you should never give up on talent, but sometimes a player needs a fresh start in a new atmosphere. Teams are desperate for offensive line help and someone might've liked him in the 2015 draft just enough to take him off of our hands in a package deal.
I love his lateral agility , all he needed was better core strength and some technique refinement.
I think he has a legit chance for the starting RT spot.
Possiblly:
Solder- Omameh- Jones/Draft pick?-2nd rounder-Wheeler/Flowers
Ask me if I take Flowers or Wheeler at RT week 1 2018, I have to really think about it.
he has good feet....improve his technique...we should be in good shape.
didn't he protect Darnold?
Ask me if I take Flowers or Wheeler at RT week 1 2018, I have to really think about it.
Wheeler is in camp, and I am sure he is working hard. Flowers was the only player not to show up. Does that make the decision easier?
Remarks make him sound like John Jerry, part 2. If that is the case, Giants seriously overpaid and should just keep Jerry.
Ask me if I take Flowers or Wheeler at RT week 1 2018, I have to really think about it.
Hey Sy, knowing what you know now, what round would you be comfortable taking Wheeler if they re-drafted the 2017 draft?
Flowers when he gets to camp is going to be #2 on the depth chart and is going to just fight to make the team. Here's to someone like Wheeler raising the competition level.
Screw Flowers. For whatever reason he's decided not to attend camp, it's a sign of me before team.
Flowers days are numbered. Addition by subtraction.
Not so fast...
Just Solder.....
I am not sold on Wheeler......he is another Reese project.....this team is strapped by the cap.....there are not many moves it can make on the OL other than hit on a player in the draft....
Jones is nothing special, and may be just a one year rental....but he is a guy who will give you 100% of what he has, and hopefully can play 16 games....
The enigma of Flowers continues, especially with him not showing up.....is this a reaction to the countdown to May 3rd?
The Giants are forced to finally try Flowers at another position, and how that will pan out will be a mystery.....
Hal Hunter(?) has his work cut out for him.....can he somehow put together a group of guys that can protect Eli? Will we finally see a successful screen pass? Will we be able to convert short yardage situations? It's asking a lot....as far as the draft goes, we may not go OL until the third Round, and the odds drop dramatically by then....
But this is DG and co., not the Reese machine.....but until we see the results in preseason, we have no idea of how this draft will pan out.....
One thing I want to see with this offense and the OL, is some sort of urgency....it just did not seem to be there the last two preseasons....and Eli has to step up his game in preseason, also.....this offense has a lot of work to do....
I just felt this offense was not ready out of the gate the last two seasons...
Just Solder.....
I am not sold on Wheeler......he is another Reese project.....this team is strapped by the cap.....there are not many moves it can make on the OL other than hit on a player in the draft....
Jones is nothing special, and may be just a one year rental....but he is a guy who will give you 100% of what he has, and hopefully can play 16 games....
The enigma of Flowers continues, especially with him not showing up.....is this a reaction to the countdown to May 3rd?
The Giants are forced to finally try Flowers at another position, and how that will pan out will be a mystery.....
Hal Hunter(?) has his work cut out for him.....can he somehow put together a group of guys that can protect Eli? Will we finally see a successful screen pass? Will we be able to convert short yardage situations? It's asking a lot....as far as the draft goes, we may not go OL until the third Round, and the odds drop dramatically by then....
But this is DG and co., not the Reese machine.....but until we see the results in preseason, we have no idea of how this draft will pan out.....
One thing I want to see with this offense and the OL, is some sort of urgency....it just did not seem to be there the last two preseasons....and Eli has to step up his game in preseason, also.....this offense has a lot of work to do....
I just felt this offense was not ready out of the gate the last two seasons...
Just Solder.....
I am not sold on Wheeler......he is another Reese project.....this team is strapped by the cap.....there are not many moves it can make on the OL other than hit on a player in the draft....
Jones is nothing special, and may be just a one year rental....but he is a guy who will give you 100% of what he has, and hopefully can play 16 games....
The enigma of Flowers continues, especially with him not showing up.....is this a reaction to the countdown to May 3rd?
The Giants are forced to finally try Flowers at another position, and how that will pan out will be a mystery.....
Hal Hunter(?) has his work cut out for him.....can he somehow put together a group of guys that can protect Eli? Will we finally see a successful screen pass? Will we be able to convert short yardage situations? It's asking a lot....as far as the draft goes, we may not go OL until the third Round, and the odds drop dramatically by then....
But this is DG and co., not the Reese machine.....but until we see the results in preseason, we have no idea of how this draft will pan out.....
One thing I want to see with this offense and the OL, is some sort of urgency....it just did not seem to be there the last two preseasons....and Eli has to step up his game in preseason, also.....this offense has a lot of work to do....
I just felt this offense was not ready out of the gate the last two seasons...
I agree the Giants were not ready to start the season the last two seasons. I think part of the problem was that McAdoo placed too much emphasis on starting the season healthy, at the expense of having them ready for the physical nature of the regular season. Also, let’s reaffirm that Eli played terribly , as well, perhaps because he was neurotic about the oline , but, whatever , he’s supposed to be the “franchise.”
But “sense of urgency” is an air-filled cliche . The Giants need better players . They need a better quarterback . They need their best players to be healthy. They need their very best player signed to a long-term deal.
As for the thread start, it’s obvious Wheeler has talent. He has better feet and hands than Flowers. But he needs to get stronger . He’s prone to the bull rush and he’s late out of stance , which leads to problems, especially on the road.
Lastly I’m not sure Gettleman has improved the overall quality of the line so far this off-season. He now has a competent , professional LT but he lost two guys who, regardless of what BBI followers think of them, signed 50 million dollars worth of guaranteed contracts with other teams .
If he can just stay on the field and outplay Jerry, yes he is an improvement.....but does he play well with others? Let's hope for the best....
Have to hope that Solder and Omameh are anchors on the left side and Jones is competent enough at center. But the right side of the O-Line is very much up for grabs and I have to believe that at least one or both of the 2018 starters are still not yet on this roster...
The O-Line has been the bane of this team and McAdoo's idiotic offensive scheme for years now... Giants are a losing team again in 2018 if they screw this up...
So, being tuned in right now shows a lot, or could show, for wheeler, in that regard.
There was a lot wrong in the first clip (which was the Thanksgiving game, I was there freezing my ass off) from a technique stand point and it was some of the same problems he had when I watched him at USC. Keeps his hands a little too low, elbows are wide, and his punch suffers with no pop and awful timing. He drops his head losing Kerrigan and stops his feet. Kerrigan had absolutely no trouble running the arc. If Eli doesn't have the pocket awareness he has that would've been ugly. People need to understand Wheeler is a long way off. Best we can hope for right now is that he fills the role as our back up swing tackle while he gets stronger, which is also obvious in the second clip.
I'm down on Flowers right now as well, but having him work at RT is still the best case scenario.
I will say this about Wheeler, he is a much better fit for the zone schemes NYG will run under Shurmur/Hunter.
When you miss on a high pick you not only burn that spot but potentially have to eat an additional one down the line as you seek the replacement for a 'hole' as opposed to the proactive move for an upside x factor.
That said, Flowers may be like Russia, that is; not nearly as much of a threat (to his opponents) as originally billed, but not nearly as incompetent, as we now assume, either.
Or another theory is that he was asked to stay away and stay healthy.
DG Playing Chess with Flowers as a Pawn - ( New Window )
Some players thrive at left and suck elsewhere. Some excel at right guard and suck elsewhere.
We've seen college level tackles get years of 3rd string at guard and not make it, never having had a shot at OT.
Each player is different. We might not have our right OT yet.
For example Wheeler: If his best potentail is at left tackle, if he's not yet ready at right tackle, according to hierarchy of skills theory, you would not try him at second string left tackle.
And possibly waste a quality starting left tackle down the line based on the assumption that a second year player who didn't make it at right wouldn't make it in his third or a later year year at left. Which is not well founded logic.
So, it's possible to have a player with (choose a number) 85% potentail at left tackle, 65% at right and 40% at guard.
According to a hierarchy of skills theory, if that player didn't do well -initially- at left, you would try him then at right (lowering his chance of success) and then if he doesn't do well enough at that, at guard (gets cut).
Which for that particular individual would be exactly the wrong thing. For a player with that profile you'd keep them at 2nd, 3rd or 4th left tackle and practice practice practice.
But each one is differently made.
Ask me if I take Flowers or Wheeler at RT week 1 2018, I have to really think about it.
It’s gonna be wheeler. Flowers won’t make the team in my view.
Me too, however I hope Wheeler added his weight in different places than me
djm : 10:54 am : link : reply
It’s gonna be wheeler. Flowers won’t make the team in my view.
I can't see the Giants cutting a guy with 2.4M guaranteed, and representing 4.5M in dead money....we are kind of stuck with him as a starter/back up.....May 3rd is fast approaching for Flowers.....him not showing up means he know what will happen May 3rd.....
Besides meetings, there was strength and conditioning. Billy Price partially tore his pectoral at the combine. Injuries can happen while lifting weights. If Flowers injures himself at the Giants facility or a team sanctioned event, then the Giants are liable for his treatment/injury settlement. If he gets injured on his own time, then the Giants can place him on the NFI list and withhold his salary.
Look, I don't think he has much trade value, but he is still a young first round pick that some team might be willing to take a chance on even if it is a 6th round pick. The fact is he's not a Gettleman Guy. There were reported issues at the end of the season that left Hart out of work and Flowers having to explain himself. If it wasn't for the draft pedigree, he likely would have been joining Hart.
I agree. See my linked response above as to a potential theory as why Flowers missed last week without any questions/explanations.
Trade up from #12 for Nelson
Trade up from #22 for McGlinchey
Draft our favorite Center somewhere in Round Two or Three
Also spend two picks on Big D-linemen (over 320)
Trade up from #12 for Nelson
Trade up from #22 for McGlinchey
Draft our favorite Center somewhere in Round Two or Three
Also spend two picks on Big D-linemen (over 320)
Plus, at this point, they might have to pay another team to take him, sort of the way Cleveland got a pick to take Brock Osweiler off Houston's hands. Flowers is not good on the field, not good in the clubhouse.
I still hope he blossoms with the Giants and becomes a great lineman. But I always hope anybody on the team does well. Not optimistic about him anymore though.
ha. I dropped 14 pounds. From my chest to my stomach