“— It still does not appear likely the Giants will take a quarterback, at least not with the No. 2 pick.”
“The Giants view Saquon Barkley as a near-perfect prospect. They think he’s a better player than Ezekiel Elliott, who went No. 4 to the Cowboys in 2016.”
“There is no doubt North Carolina State defensive end Bradley Chubb is in the mix...”
“Quenton Nelson will not be the pick at No. 2. This is not because the Giants have any reservations with the player — they do not — but it is a matter of positional value. The second-overall pick is too high to take a guard. The Giants do not view Nelson as a viable option to move outside to tackle. If they trade down (this is unlikely), moving to No. 5 to give the Broncos the No. 2 pick, then Nelson makes sense...”
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Oh, is it your opinion? I could have sworn that you've presented it as fact, repeatedly. Getting a little gunshy on the airtight intel coming out of the ad sales bullpen at CBS?
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personally. The OG will make every RB better.
This is just silly. Based on Barkley's potential, he is not JUST a pro bowl RB.
You would take Steve Hutchison over LaDainian Tomlinson? Larry Allen ove Marshall Faulk?
The idea that an All World Guard is the better pick than a RB with Barkley's abilities is fucking adorable.
No offense Jim. But come on.
Im in agreement with this. OGs simply are not transformational players like a multi faceted homerun threat like Barkley is.
He impacts 3 phases: run game, pass game and special teams.
Lastly further underscored by the fact that RB is a legitimate need position.
Totally agreed. QB is a position that is simply on a different level than any other position. It is arguably the most important position in any sport.
There are enough core players already on this team at the premium positions that with further solidification of the glaring weaknesses( OL and LB ) and the huge uprade in coaching, that this team should be markedly improved next year even with our top pick carrying a clipboard.
Now stories seem to suggest that Barkley is slipping and the QBs are rising again, as is Chubb. Yet not one of these guys has played a snap of football since then to show anybody that they are any better or worse than they were a month ago.
The only thing that has changed is the fickle minds of the media and the fans the follow the gossip of the day, like a bunch of high school girls...
I also think if the Giants draft a QB at #2 there is very little chance he sits for two years, unless it is Allen. Rosen is pro-ready so you don't waste two years of his rookie contract - and development - having him sit. I think Darnold may sit a year but likely not more than that.
Chubb if they trade down to 5.
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He does an outstanding job. But his ratings will not line up with every other knowledgeable scout in the league. That doesn't mean Sy is better or worse, it means the draft is about opinions and knowledgeable people can have different opinions. Because Sy thinks Barkley is by far the best player in this draft does not mean every NFL team has him rated that way. It also doesn't mean Sy or those other scouts are bad at what they do. Professionals disagree on prospects. That is just the nature of the draft.
I just want to add that not only do the professionals disagree on prospects, they sometimes disagree by a very wide margin. One scout's 1st round prospect could be another scout's 4th round prospect, and they could both be highly successful scouts with excellent track records.
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I also think if the Giants draft a QB at #2 there is very little chance he sits for two years, unless it is Allen.
How long the QB sits will/would be a function of several factors and there's really no sense trying to predict it.
I’m sorry but there is no way in hell that any “player” let alone a QB selected #2 overall in the draft will sit on the bench for two years....just not gonna happen.
Chubb if they trade down to 5.
Jon based on all the clues and reading of the tea leaves , this scenario makes the most sense. Of course, It also could still be Barkley at 5 if Browns trade out to a QB desperate team and/or they take Chubb themselves. My only contention with Giant thinking is they are potentially horribly missing the boat on Rosen (though short term I wont mind if we take the transformational talent in Saquon).
The New York Jets are now on the clock.
I'm sorry if I was too critical. We all value your input.
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In comment 13914372 Vanzetti said:
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Sy and Dave-te are both professionals who have been doing this for a long time
Their insisghts are invaluable
Haha. Was thinking the same when I read his post.
Sy’s opinion is by no means the end all be all, he’d be the first to tell you, but I’m going to trust him over 99.9% of BBI when t comes to scouting.
Posting something more meaningful than the opinions of us fans, that’s a low bar. We are fans...
Sy is a guy that seems to put time in and so he knows more than I, but too many on this site treat it as gospel. Sy might even agree. Remember, scouts and gms are disagreeing and working it all out in the war room. Draft is a crapshoot, his is one guy. Glad he shares his views here.
I get that but when TLG offers nothing other than a “Sy just does what we all don’t have time for” post I’m going to call it out because it’s that fucking stupid.
Informed by what? There are any number of people on this site that claim to have connections. A couple have a track history of being right so they don't need to prove anything. But they also don't keep insisting the have connections they won't talk about, or insisting that the Giants intentions are as black and white as you do. For most of us that comes across as unbelievable.
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Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You obviously have no comprehensive skills. We know your an insufferable moron so we've established you know also don't understand football either. That said ill indulge you one more time. My opinions are my opinions. They are informed however. You can ignore what I say. I could care less. That doesn't make it any less informed. If they go qb its Darnold. They aren't taking another qb. I have this opinion enhanced by everything I've heard. Do you understand now?
Informed by what? There are any number of people on this site that claim to have connections. A couple have a track history of being right so they don't need to prove anything. But they also don't keep insisting the have connections they won't talk about, or insisting that the Giants intentions are as black and white as you do. For most of us that comes across as unbelievable.
Mike, you are coming in without knowledge of history on jtgiant. He has explained his connections in previous posts and he has given information and insight in the past that has been valid. He is not even saying it's black and white and has said numerous times that things could change. We can take the information with a grain of salt or not, but it's being shared regardless. Same with beat writers
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In comment 13914690 jtgiants said:
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Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You obviously have no comprehensive skills. We know your an insufferable moron so we've established you know also don't understand football either. That said ill indulge you one more time. My opinions are my opinions. They are informed however. You can ignore what I say. I could care less. That doesn't make it any less informed. If they go qb its Darnold. They aren't taking another qb. I have this opinion enhanced by everything I've heard. Do you understand now?
Informed by what? There are any number of people on this site that claim to have connections. A couple have a track history of being right so they don't need to prove anything. But they also don't keep insisting the have connections they won't talk about, or insisting that the Giants intentions are as black and white as you do. For most of us that comes across as unbelievable.
Mike, you are coming in without knowledge of history on jtgiant. He has explained his connections in previous posts and he has given information and insight in the past that has been valid. He is not even saying it's black and white and has said numerous times that things could change. We can take the information with a grain of salt or not, but it's being shared regardless. Same with beat writers
I am not aware of jtgiants history, so I am asking. I have been in this site for a very long time, and there are certain posters who have a history of beng correct about things. Hitdog, JonC to name a couple. I can't recall jtgiants bringing anything like that, but I may just not have seen it.
Are there other posters out there that can speak to jtgiants bona fides?
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In comment 13914690 jtgiants said:
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Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You obviously have no comprehensive skills. We know your an insufferable moron so we've established you know also don't understand football either. That said ill indulge you one more time. My opinions are my opinions. They are informed however. You can ignore what I say. I could care less. That doesn't make it any less informed. If they go qb its Darnold. They aren't taking another qb. I have this opinion enhanced by everything I've heard. Do you understand now?
Informed by what? There are any number of people on this site that claim to have connections. A couple have a track history of being right so they don't need to prove anything. But they also don't keep insisting the have connections they won't talk about, or insisting that the Giants intentions are as black and white as you do. For most of us that comes across as unbelievable.
Mike, you are coming in without knowledge of history on jtgiant. He has explained his connections in previous posts and he has given information and insight in the past that has been valid. He is not even saying it's black and white and has said numerous times that things could change. We can take the information with a grain of salt or not, but it's being shared regardless. Same with beat writers
Yeah, not exactly saying take my info with a grain of salt.
Colin
jtgiants : 12:53 am : link : reply
I respect you but your going to look pretty bad when giants don't go qb.
There are few more respected posters than Colin and JT comes in with a veiled threat.
And its not the first time he’s posted this to people who think the media narrative may be incorrect or hope it is anyway.
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In comment 13914690 jtgiants said:
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Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You obviously have no comprehensive skills. We know your an insufferable moron so we've established you know also don't understand football either. That said ill indulge you one more time. My opinions are my opinions. They are informed however. You can ignore what I say. I could care less. That doesn't make it any less informed. If they go qb its Darnold. They aren't taking another qb. I have this opinion enhanced by everything I've heard. Do you understand now?
Informed by what? There are any number of people on this site that claim to have connections. A couple have a track history of being right so they don't need to prove anything. But they also don't keep insisting the have connections they won't talk about, or insisting that the Giants intentions are as black and white as you do. For most of us that comes across as unbelievable.
Mike, you are coming in without knowledge of history on jtgiant. He has explained his connections in previous posts and he has given information and insight in the past that has been valid. He is not even saying it's black and white and has said numerous times that things could change. We can take the information with a grain of salt or not, but it's being shared regardless. Same with beat writers
Stop. He's not an asshat by any means. His connection is having worked at CBS Sports Radio in the past. Are they breaking any draft news for the Giants? He's a fan just like you and me and has a particular outcome that he's rooting for.
I worked for the NFL for a while (Eric can confirm). Does that make my wishful thinking more valuable than anyone else's?
You are not connected. I don't care what you've heard.
He then starts going on about how the Giants are not going QB 100%
He then starts with the insults
Then claims the victim because people disagreed with him, which he considers being attacked
Then he claims his opinion is informed and alludes to having asshat status
And by that point the good discussion is dead
He killed a great thread that should be talking about Colins posts
team has the ammo IMO worthy of pick #2 . Eli i still good enough and with a O-line getting revamped and a threat st
RB play action will be back in the cards something Eli does well when you have those kinds of weapons to keep a defense off balanced .
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LOL. I like Sy and his opinions are informative but working for a non NFL related draft publication isn't being a scout imo.
Does he get paid professionally to do scouting for a service that NFL teams use?
He's a professional scout.
That's not true. There are only two scouting services the NFL teams use, National and BLESTO. A hand full don't use any (NYG uses BLESTO). They are primarily used at the start of the process which is immediately after the draft, each team will get roughly 800 reports, the regionals/team scouts will take it from there.
IF there are amateur scouting services that claim NFL teams use them they are lying..
Personally, credentials speak volumes.. I don't know Sy's and by the sounds of it neither does a lot of people who preach his word. He seems like a decent guy, but with my experience (I've played at a high level, until recently coached at the collegiate level, and I'm friends with real pro scouts/coaches) I don't spend much time reading amateur opinions. Not to say I'm better or that I have better sources of information. I'm part owner in a couple restaurants/bars and I'm now trying to tackle real estate which makes its hard to find time to read this site or his reports so this is nothing against him or those on this board. This is a knowledgeable group, I like what Eric put together here, that's why I continue to frequent the corner when I can.
At some point exemplars of each category rise to the top of their pyramids
Common to all of the above is:
1)football talent assessment skills which breaks down into
-- objectivity
-- A consistently followed point of view or systemic
factors they believe connect to future success. They
have to have a sequence they follow year after year
position by position or otherwise they are just a guy
-- many many hours of film assessment
-- other professionals to debate/refine what they saw
2) Common to Only people on actual NFl teams:
A) Access to the players and their coaches and agents/parents.
B) Access to data points from interviews/tests/medicals/workouts that only professional teams have
C) Assessments of the true state and beliefs of the coaching staffs as to the weaknesses of the current team
At some point the personal assessment skills of each type might be equal but the access to information is not.
For me, since they cannot access the top of the pyramid data all we have is respect for guys like Colin and Sy who are at the top of the non NFL team pyramid.
Its a little like the book reviewer at the NYT is going to get first crack at the upcoming novel even if your cousin once removed has good insights after he reads it
The guys we should have the least respect for is guys who pretend that they are any more than they are...guys without an evaluation system they follow with rigor
This group is closely related to the most annoying posts we see:
I saw a play or a game or heard a thing abut a guy or my old school and fell in love.
Now I am going to torture the rest of the data into confessing.
Most posts fall into this last category
a few posters actually have professional grade NFl talent assessment skills and also follow an assessment system backed by multi source data and hours of study across positions across colleges across years. Few
few currently paid NFL talent assessors may post on a fan site...but not under their own name or credentials
No FO talent evaluator of the overall scout assessments for an NFL team posts here.
I am sure many have some good insights here and there about this or that...but are miles away from what it takes for this. I am sure that's because most devote the time it takes towards their life, loved ones and different primary careers.
Good posters stay within themselves
At some point exemplars of each category rise to the top of their pyramids
Common to all of the above is:
1)football talent assessment skills which breaks down into
-- objectivity
-- A consistently followed point of view or systemic
factors they believe connect to future success. They
have to have a sequence they follow year after year
position by position or otherwise they are just a guy
-- many many hours of film assessment
-- other professionals to debate/refine what they saw
2) Common to Only people on actual NFl teams:
A) Access to the players and their coaches and agents/parents.
B) Access to data points from interviews/tests/medicals/workouts that only professional teams have
C) Assessments of the true state and beliefs of the coaching staffs as to the weaknesses of the current team
At some point the personal assessment skills of each type might be equal but the access to information is not.
For me, since they cannot access the top of the pyramid data all we have is respect for guys like Colin and Sy who are at the top of the non NFL team pyramid.
Its a little like the book reviewer at the NYT is going to get first crack at the upcoming novel even if your cousin once removed has good insights after he reads it
The guys we should have the least respect for is guys who pretend that they are any more than they are...guys without an evaluation system they follow with rigor
This group is closely related to the most annoying posts we see:
I saw a play or a game or heard a thing abut a guy or my old school and fell in love.
Now I am going to torture the rest of the data into confessing.
Most posts fall into this last category
a few posters actually have professional grade NFl talent assessment skills and also follow an assessment system backed by multi source data and hours of study across positions across colleges across years. Few
few currently paid NFL talent assessors may post on a fan site...but not under their own name or credentials
No FO talent evaluator of the overall scout assessments for an NFL team posts here.
I am sure many have some good insights here and there about this or that...but are miles away from what it takes for this. I am sure that's because most devote the time it takes towards their life, loved ones and different primary careers.
Good posters stay within themselves
Good post Bill2. Well said.
How many times have you called me a moron? And you have the nerve to talk about insults?
You're just a fan who is hoping for one particular scenario. So much so that you have convinced yourself that it's somehow more likely than all other scenarios, and for whatever reason, you seem to demonstrate an odd need to get people on board with your preferred outcome by way of suggesting that it has legs because you've supposedly been told things.
It's strange. That's not an insult, it's not an attack, it's an observation.
Haha I get your point but this nothing. This is (sadly) the calm...before the storm.
Havoc will be had once that first round pick is made
I think Sy is a paid to scout and is thereby a professional.
I dont think he works for the NFL, an NFL team or for one of the two scouting groups.
I think Sy has been doing this on here for 4 years and has proven on many occasions to be prescient and has therefore earned a bit of a following.
I think he has generously offered a great service to BBI and it is appreciated by the vast majority of BBI.
A) It's not an attack. Stop playing the victim. You're the one who has called me a moron repeatedly.
B) I'm not accusing you of differing from the media narrative. In fact, my point has been all along that you take the media narrative as gospel.
C) Colin was positing a scenario, just like you have been, and YOU were the one who immediately resorted to "your [sic] going to look bad" tactics.
D) I can listen to CBS Sports Radio if I want to know what they're hearing - by definition, they're not in the business of hearing whispers that they don't share.
E) Several posters, including myself, have tangential access to information, yet don't feel compelled to play the "I've been told" card to validate their own wishful thinking.
F) As I mentioned above, the only one who has issued personal attacks is you.
You seem to have a pathological need to have your desired outcome be fact and accepted/embraced by others. We'll know for sure in 11 days, and you may well get your wish. But trotting out your hopes as facts is just a weird approach.
If we can also pick up a starting OL player high in the 2nd like Wynn, Price, Williams, Hernandez, etc. then I'd be thrilled with a Barkley/OL player 1-2. We'd had 3 new OL starters (maybe even 4 if Flowers gets beat out), and Barkley.
Im sorry but didnt you attack Colin?
Like I said earlier in the thread, I used to work for the NFL. Do you not think I have at least the same access to info as you? That's not an attack on you, by the way - I happen to know that opinions/insights are all over the map with regard to what the Giants are going to do. You just happen to only share what aligns with what you hope will happen.
JT, you have my word that I will not be out looking for you to eat crow or anything else once the pick is made. As soon as that moment passes, I assume we'll be in complete agreement that we're rooting for incredible success for whoever the Giants choose as our next star.
Only one team with exactly one pick controls their own destiny each year.
So let’s please just say things are opinions and clearly fluid...
Biz dev and ticket sales. Nothing that would qualify me as an insider on my own merit.
Do you not honestly understand the difference between an opinion and what you offer? "I think the Giants like Darnold" is an opinion. "I think Darnold is the only QB they should draft" is an opinion. Nobody has any problem with that, especially me.
"The Giants will only take Darnold based on what I am hearing" or "The fact is they will only take Darnold" is not an opinion. It is someone stating they have actual insight into what the Giants are thinking/saying privately. If you want to do that, and you have no proven history of being right, you are going to be challenged. You should be.
If your "connection" to the Giants is that you used to work in sports radio, and nobody can vouch for any history of insight you provided, maybe you should just post your opinion as opinion as most others do.
Or just keep pretending to be an insider and look foolish.