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NFT: NBA playoff thread

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/14/2018 3:23 pm
Dubs up early on Spurs.

Raptors-Wiz @ 5:30, Heat-76ers @ 8, & Pels-Blazers @ 10:30.

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it says the cavs will play hood more  
hitdog42 : 6/6/2018 1:51 pm : link
i dont understand why he has been out of the lineup--- he is a solid offensive player-- and no worse on defense than the others.
there is a clear issue with some young guys and system players playing with lebron-- this is not debateable and one of the sites did a piece on how most guys play worse than projected.
the episode at the end of game 1 reflects that. guys dont play or shoot freely- the fact that lue benched those guys who he would eventually need, speaks to him just riding the LBJ coattails to another finals.
clarkson is not a stud, but hes a solid 6mth man NBA player- a poor mans lou williams-- and he is playing like a homeless mans marshon brooks... that is confidence not ability.
if they want to have a chance they should be working on giving guys like clarkson and hood confidence to perform.
Being a role player on Lebrons team  
dep026 : 6/6/2018 2:08 pm : link
is very hard. Its not that Lebron is selfish because he isnt. But its tough getting into a flow and a rhythm when you touch the ball once every 3-4 plays.
Pretty damning quote by Bell  
dep026 : 6/6/2018 2:15 pm : link
Quote:
"You can tell," Warriors rookie Jordan Bell says. "Last game, Jordan Clarkson had came in. I think he missed like two shots, and I looked up—he was out of the game. I was like, 'Damn, he got pulled already, just for missing two shots?' I guess when you play with LeBron, all you have to do is just catch and shoot. If you're not doing that well, I guess you got to come out."


Being a catch and shoot player may seem ideal but to me it's not. And a lot of players are becoming that in the NBA due to the massive ISO movement going on.

I really wish the NBA instituted a new 5 second possession on the ball handler outside the 3 point line. There is nothing worse seeing Lebron, Hatden, Paul, Wall, Westbrook etc.... just dribbling it between thier legs and crossing over for 15 seconds before they drive or shoot a 3.
RE: Pretty damning quote by Bell  
giantsfan44ab : 6/6/2018 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13984763 dep026 said:
Quote:


Quote:


"You can tell," Warriors rookie Jordan Bell says. "Last game, Jordan Clarkson had came in. I think he missed like two shots, and I looked up—he was out of the game. I was like, 'Damn, he got pulled already, just for missing two shots?' I guess when you play with LeBron, all you have to do is just catch and shoot. If you're not doing that well, I guess you got to come out."



Being a catch and shoot player may seem ideal but to me it's not. And a lot of players are becoming that in the NBA due to the massive ISO movement going on.

I really wish the NBA instituted a new 5 second possession on the ball handler outside the 3 point line. There is nothing worse seeing Lebron, Hatden, Paul, Wall, Westbrook etc.... just dribbling it between thier legs and crossing over for 15 seconds before they drive or shoot a 3.


Some of it is based on style, some of its based on talent. Lebrons teams passed the ball more when he had Kyrie/Wade/Bosh.

Likewise, the Warriors were DEAD LAST in passes per game before Draymond broke out. Then they creeped into the top 10 the year they won the first championship due to Green/Kerr. And once KD came they rocketed to #1.

I wouldn't expect Lebrons teammates to touch the ball once every 3/4 possessions if they were KD and Klay instead of Jeff Green and George Hill.
And Clarkson got pulled  
giantsfan44ab : 6/6/2018 2:54 pm : link
because he isn't very good at many basketball related activities. If he's not hitting shots he's a liability on defense and is prone to taking bad shots. A least Korver can provide floor spacing (and despite his limitations does try on defense).
RE: Being a role player on Lebrons team  
hitdog42 : 6/6/2018 3:11 pm : link
In comment 13984753 dep026 said:
Quote:
is very hard. Its not that Lebron is selfish because he isnt. But its tough getting into a flow and a rhythm when you touch the ball once every 3-4 plays.


exactly- hes not a selfish player--- but its not a flowing offense where players are moving, having their number called, and motion creates shots---

guys are standing and watching and then getting a look- its just not as easy as it looks on TV when you know the narrative is you let lebron down every time you miss

lebron is nothing like westbrook but the cavs offense many times is guys standing around for lebron like guys doing that for westbrook--- its no wonder Melo shot like crap this year.
I don't watch too much NBA  
JayBinQueens : 6/6/2018 10:07 pm : link
but man, they complain all the fucking time now
RE: Do the Cavs get one tonight  
dep026 : 6/6/2018 10:19 pm : link
In comment 13984722 dep026 said:
Quote:
or is it a sweep? I believe this is their best chance. Lebron raises up for 45-12-11. We get the media stigma that he is the greatest ever for winning a game. JR Smith buries 6 threes and becomes in the running for the true MVP of the series haha.

Curry and Klay cant piss in the ocean, but Durant has a pretty big game

108-101 Cavs.


So far depper on point.
refs trying thwir hardest  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2018 11:23 pm : link
to get cavs a win
curry has the ball  
MookGiants : 6/6/2018 11:24 pm : link
near the three point line, one pump fake and two guys run away from him, mind numbing
Iggy with the spectacular dunk and KD with the dagger  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/6/2018 11:25 pm : link
...
yawn  
MookGiants : 6/6/2018 11:25 pm : link
pointless to even watch. Glad I didnt waste my time watching the first 40 minutes or so
Ratings for Game 4  
bceagle05 : 6/6/2018 11:26 pm : link
will be through the roof.
RE: yawn  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2018 11:26 pm : link
In comment 13985191 MookGiants said:
Quote:
pointless to even watch. Glad I didnt waste my time watching the first 40 minutes or so


missed a good game
RE: RE: yawn  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/6/2018 11:27 pm : link
In comment 13985193 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13985191 MookGiants said:


Quote:


pointless to even watch. Glad I didnt waste my time watching the first 40 minutes or so



missed a good game


He's just mad the Warriors are winning. The last few minutes were really enjoyable.
the people who say oh we knew the warriors were going to win  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2018 11:29 pm : link
really you knew the warriors qere going to win down 3-2 to houston?
RE: RE: yawn  
MookGiants : 6/6/2018 11:34 pm : link
In comment 13985193 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13985191 MookGiants said:


Quote:


pointless to even watch. Glad I didnt waste my time watching the first 40 minutes or so



missed a good game


I dont find any of the games enjoyable when you know who is going to win in the end. The series was over well before it started. I turn on each game with about 6 minutes to go to see if the final minutes are entertaining. To me there is nothing more worthless than the first 3 quarters of an NBA game. Teams come back down double digits all the time, its worth watching at the end.

At least the conference finals were entertaining. Rest of the playoffs have been an unmitigated disaster.

I dont know what the solution is for the NBA. But unless LeBron leaves to go elsewhere, no one has a chance to beat this golden state team anytime soon because Kevin Durant is a bitch. Great player but always will be a bitch for leaving a team that only lost to the 73 win warriors because he gagged in the big moment.

It's not his job to make the NBA entertaining, but I will always have a problem with a guy who left a team that only lost because he gagged to go to the team that beat him.

The talent is great. It's just not enjoyable for me anymore to watch for long stretches. I love LeBron's greatness. I enjoy watching him try to take a team full of 6th men types to a title.

Unless you're a Warriors fan, watching this super team just isn't particularly enjoyable, maybe because outside of Klay the team is filled with unlikable superstars
RE: the people who say oh we knew the warriors were going to win  
MookGiants : 6/6/2018 11:35 pm : link
In comment 13985197 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
really you knew the warriors qere going to win down 3-2 to houston?


Yes. Once Paul got hurt in game 5 the series was over.

I still think they find a way to win if Paul plays, but it's at least a possibility.

Warriors were never losing a game to a Paul-less Rockets team.
Mr. Top Ten of all-time...  
bw in dc : 6/6/2018 11:37 pm : link
Steph Curry showing why he’s not.
RE: Mr. Top Ten of all-time...  
dep026 : 6/6/2018 11:47 pm : link
In comment 13985202 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Steph Curry showing why he’s not.


So when lebron choked against Dallas, he should be disqualified as well then right. Because Curry’s was one game, lebron was all series.
I remember all the slobbering  
dep026 : 6/6/2018 11:51 pm : link
For George hill last year after I was suspended.

George hill sucks donkey balls.
Man Mook  
santacruzom : 6/6/2018 11:59 pm : link
It must suck to only see the worst in everyone.
2 out of 3 of the games have been excellent  
KWALL2 : 6/7/2018 12:06 am : link
Good series even at 3-0. Great effort by Lebron again but GS just loaded.
Cavs haven’t played poorly  
Kyle in NY : 6/7/2018 12:27 am : link
and they’re about to be swept. It just isn’t a fair fight. The Warriors margin for error is so great
RE: RE: Mr. Top Ten of all-time...  
bw in dc : 6/7/2018 8:51 am : link
In comment 13985203 dep026 said:
Quote:


So when lebron choked against Dallas, he should be disqualified as well then right. Because Curry’s was one game, lebron was all series.


That was a blemish for sure. But LBJ has certainly done enough since to offset most of that.

And can we agree that LBJ is in a different stratosphere as a player than Curry? He’s shouldered significantly more responsibility than Curry ever can.

RE: RE: RE: Mr. Top Ten of all-time...  
dep026 : 6/7/2018 9:03 am : link
In comment 13985274 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13985203 dep026 said:


Quote:




So when lebron choked against Dallas, he should be disqualified as well then right. Because Curry’s was one game, lebron was all series.



That was a blemish for sure. But LBJ has certainly done enough since to offset most of that.

And can we agree that LBJ is in a different stratosphere as a player than Curry? He’s shouldered significantly more responsibility than Curry ever can.


So Curry's one bad game has offset the last 4 years?

Very weird take.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/7/2018 9:10 am : link
So Steph had an off night. It happens. It shouldn't diminish him as a player overall.
RE: ...  
dep026 : 6/7/2018 9:18 am : link
In comment 13985291 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
So Steph had an off night. It happens. It shouldn't diminish him as a player overall.


Plus he hit the big 3 before Durants.
I've defended Steph's all time status  
giantsfan44ab : 6/7/2018 9:41 am : link
but he does have some big duds in the Finals over the past few years. He;'s shooting 38% this year. Last year he played well but was outshined entirely by KD. The year the Cavs won he averaged more TOs than assists and shot 40%.

Maybe he deserved Finals MVP during his first run but he averaged less points per game than he did during the season playing 43 minutes a game (and Iggy truly played well on both ends that year). It is somewhat telling Steph has never elevated his game during the Finals nor carried his team. And he's basically the weak link thats attacked on defense consistently. For that reason its going to be hard for me to put him ahead of the likes of Kobe, Wade etc. especially if he's going to have the benefit of KD/Klay/Dray for the rest of his career.
RE: I've defended Steph's all time status  
bw in dc : 6/7/2018 9:51 am : link
In comment 13985335 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
but he does have some big duds in the Finals over the past few years. He;'s shooting 38% this year. Last year he played well but was outshined entirely by KD. The year the Cavs won he averaged more TOs than assists and shot 40%.

Maybe he deserved Finals MVP during his first run but he averaged less points per game than he did during the season playing 43 minutes a game (and Iggy truly played well on both ends that year). It is somewhat telling Steph has never elevated his game during the Finals nor carried his team. And he's basically the weak link thats attacked on defense consistently. For that reason its going to be hard for me to put him ahead of the likes of Kobe, Wade etc. especially if he's going to have the benefit of KD/Klay/Dray for the rest of his career.


You beat me to it. Curry has not been the best player for his team, or the other team for that matter, in any of the four finals he’s played. Assuming Durant grabs another MVP in this series, that will be 3 wins for Golden State and no MVPs for Curry. That is an albatross. And one that will weigh negatively on any attempt to put him in any top 10-15 all-time conversation.

Steph wasn't the best Warrior in the 2015 Finals?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/7/2018 9:56 am : link
Come on.

'16 was closer between him & Draymond, but I'd take Curry that year.

'17 was obviously Durant.
RE: I've defended Steph's all time status  
dep026 : 6/7/2018 10:07 am : link
In comment 13985335 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
but he does have some big duds in the Finals over the past few years. He;'s shooting 38% this year. Last year he played well but was outshined entirely by KD. The year the Cavs won he averaged more TOs than assists and shot 40%.

Maybe he deserved Finals MVP during his first run but he averaged less points per game than he did during the season playing 43 minutes a game (and Iggy truly played well on both ends that year). It is somewhat telling Steph has never elevated his game during the Finals nor carried his team. And he's basically the weak link thats attacked on defense consistently. For that reason its going to be hard for me to put him ahead of the likes of Kobe, Wade etc. especially if he's going to have the benefit of KD/Klay/Dray for the rest of his career.


Curry has outplayed Durant in 2 of the 3 games so far. With one more big game - he is still going to get the MVP of the finals.
RE: Steph wasn't the best Warrior in the 2015 Finals?  
giantsfan44ab : 6/7/2018 10:09 am : link
In comment 13985354 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Come on.

'16 was closer between him & Draymond, but I'd take Curry that year.

'17 was obviously Durant.


GS could no doubt couldn't have won without curry. But they also couldn't have won without Iggy. You can use the #2/3 options as an excuse (e.g. Kobe couldn't have won without Shaq/Pau, Bron wouldn't have won without Wade/kyrie).

But curry basically relied on their 4th option. And from starters 1 through 5 I can't remember a team as deep as any of GS's teams anytime recently.

GS never really needed to rely on Curry as a playmaker. He is attacked on defense. And he'll bring a good offensive game ever other game in the Finals but never to the levels he reaches in the regular season. That is unlike the cream of the top, the MJs, Kobes, lebrons and Wades of the world.
RE: RE: I've defended Steph's all time status  
giantsfan44ab : 6/7/2018 10:14 am : link
In comment 13985358 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13985335 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


but he does have some big duds in the Finals over the past few years. He;'s shooting 38% this year. Last year he played well but was outshined entirely by KD. The year the Cavs won he averaged more TOs than assists and shot 40%.

Maybe he deserved Finals MVP during his first run but he averaged less points per game than he did during the season playing 43 minutes a game (and Iggy truly played well on both ends that year). It is somewhat telling Steph has never elevated his game during the Finals nor carried his team. And he's basically the weak link thats attacked on defense consistently. For that reason its going to be hard for me to put him ahead of the likes of Kobe, Wade etc. especially if he's going to have the benefit of KD/Klay/Dray for the rest of his career.



Curry has outplayed Durant in 2 of the 3 games so far. With one more big game - he is still going to get the MVP of the finals.


Steph is shooting 38% from 3. The game he scored 33 he took 26 shots. KD shot 10 of 14 that game and scored 26. So steph scored 7 more points on 12 more shots. I don't consider that outplaying.

For the series who would you say is better:

32 ppg, 10 rpg, 7 apg and nearly 2 blocks a game, playing tremendous defense. Shooting 56% (!!) and 47% from 3

Vs

24 ppg, 8 apg, 6 rpg. Shooting 39% from the field, 40% from 3, is basically the gameplan for the other team to get him switched onto bigger guys and taken advantage of (with Dray and KD providing great help defense in those situations).

Are you really confident that steph is running away with it? If Game 4 is a replica of game 3 how will steph get it? I honestly think steph needs a 40-50 point game to even have chance at it at this point...
Durant has clearly been GS’  
UConn4523 : 6/7/2018 10:18 am : link
best player this series, I actually don’t think it’s very close.
For the series  
giantsfan44ab : 6/7/2018 10:19 am : link
KD is +56 and steph is a +39 (including a 0 in yesterdays game). KD is still ahead of Steph without his +15 last night...
RE: Durant has clearly been GS’  
giantsfan44ab : 6/7/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13985381 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
best player this series, I actually don’t think it’s very close.


This seems pretty obvious to just about anyone I've talked to or anything I've read from experts. I basically think steph needs to be averaging 8 points MORE than KD is to have a shot, based on how great KD has been defensively and how often steph is picked on. But hes averaging 8 points less and shooting an astounding 19% worse than KD.
Curry/ GSW  
TyreeHelmet : 6/7/2018 10:29 am : link
Curry isn't winning MVP of this finals. What Durant did last night was truly remarkable. Without him, they lose by over 10. Durant is averaging 32/10/7 and playing good D.

I think this Finals has been very entertaining but its frustrating watching the Warriors. They are just too loaded. They have 5 of the top 7 guys in this series and a good bench. Their stars aren't really even challenged. They even kept Iguodola on ice until they needed him- its nuts.

I still can't believe the Bulls sold the Jordan Bell pick to the Warriors for 3.5mill. Reinsdorf should be ashamed of himself.
Using stats over a 3 games  
dep026 : 6/7/2018 10:33 am : link
where one guy had the best game of his life vs the other who had the worst game of his.

You can argue either way. But watching both game 1 and 2, it was pretty clear that Curry was much further ahead for the MVP award (the question was whether Cuurry or James would get it). Especially after breaking a finals record. Now if Durant has another monster game over Curry, then yes Durant will get it. But if Curry is clearly the best player in their next win - he is going to get it, IMO.
RE: RE: Steph wasn't the best Warrior in the 2015 Finals?  
TyreeHelmet : 6/7/2018 10:34 am : link
In comment 13985364 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13985354 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Come on.

'16 was closer between him & Draymond, but I'd take Curry that year.

'17 was obviously Durant.



GS could no doubt couldn't have won without curry. But they also couldn't have won without Iggy. You can use the #2/3 options as an excuse (e.g. Kobe couldn't have won without Shaq/Pau, Bron wouldn't have won without Wade/kyrie).

But curry basically relied on their 4th option. And from starters 1 through 5 I can't remember a team as deep as any of GS's teams anytime recently.

GS never really needed to rely on Curry as a playmaker. He is attacked on defense. And he'll bring a good offensive game ever other game in the Finals but never to the levels he reaches in the regular season. That is unlike the cream of the top, the MJs, Kobes, lebrons and Wades of the world.


They definitely rely on Curry as a playmaker. Maybe not as much with Durant because they can just ISO him, but they definitely do. Why do you think they constantly get 3 on 2s out of his pick and rolls? Look at all those free runs to the rim last night. It's because teams are deathly afraid of Curry and trapping him on the PNR. Their system is predicated on him. Durant is truly just the ultimate luxury and gravy on top.
Durant was shooting  
dep026 : 6/7/2018 10:37 am : link
30% from down town in games 1-2 and now is up to 47%.

Curry was shooting 50% after two games, and now is down to 40%. One game can have huge impact on stats, but not necessarily telling the whole story.
RE: Using stats over a 3 games  
giantsfan44ab : 6/7/2018 10:39 am : link
In comment 13985396 dep026 said:
Quote:
where one guy had the best game of his life vs the other who had the worst game of his.

You can argue either way. But watching both game 1 and 2, it was pretty clear that Curry was much further ahead for the MVP award (the question was whether Cuurry or James would get it). Especially after breaking a finals record. Now if Durant has another monster game over Curry, then yes Durant will get it. But if Curry is clearly the best player in their next win - he is going to get it, IMO.


The only thing that keeps Lebron in this is Curry getting obliterated on defense. Last night wasn't as bad, but game 1 he was getting lit up.

Curry hasnt been the leading scorer, top playmaker, most efficient and a bad defender. He's been pretty good, but for the life of me I can;t see how he is sniffing MVP.
RE: Durant was shooting  
giantsfan44ab : 6/7/2018 10:42 am : link
In comment 13985400 dep026 said:
Quote:
30% from down town in games 1-2 and now is up to 47%.

Curry was shooting 50% after two games, and now is down to 40%. One game can have huge impact on stats, but not necessarily telling the whole story.


Exactly. You lumped in games 1 and 2 together, where KD shot 71% and 67% from 3 in game 2.

Whats weighing KD down is the 1-7 from 3 in game 1 (a game where he did also shoot above 50% from 2).

Steph is shooting below 37% from 2 in the series...
RE: RE: Durant was shooting  
dep026 : 6/7/2018 10:49 am : link
In comment 13985404 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13985400 dep026 said:


Quote:


30% from down town in games 1-2 and now is up to 47%.

Curry was shooting 50% after two games, and now is down to 40%. One game can have huge impact on stats, but not necessarily telling the whole story.



Exactly. You lumped in games 1 and 2 together, where KD shot 71% and 67% from 3 in game 2.

Whats weighing KD down is the 1-7 from 3 in game 1 (a game where he did also shoot above 50% from 2).

Steph is shooting below 37% from 2 in the series...


Even with Durant's efficient shooting night, I felt Curry was still the prominent, better player in game 2.
RE: Durant was shooting  
TyreeHelmet : 6/7/2018 10:50 am : link
In comment 13985400 dep026 said:
Quote:
30% from down town in games 1-2 and now is up to 47%.

Curry was shooting 50% after two games, and now is down to 40%. One game can have huge impact on stats, but not necessarily telling the whole story.


I can't stand these players or this team but I have to tell like I see it. Durant helps cover the best player on the planet and plays good help D. Curry gets hunted and attacked on defense every chance the Cavs get. That must be taken in to consideration.

I also think the Warriors probably win game 2 even without Curry's historic performance. Without Durant last night, they had no chance of winning. Last night was an all time Finals performance from him.
RE: RE: Durant was shooting  
giantsfan44ab : 6/7/2018 10:54 am : link
In comment 13985414 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13985400 dep026 said:


Quote:


30% from down town in games 1-2 and now is up to 47%.

Curry was shooting 50% after two games, and now is down to 40%. One game can have huge impact on stats, but not necessarily telling the whole story.



I can't stand these players or this team but I have to tell like I see it. Durant helps cover the best player on the planet and plays good help D. Curry gets hunted and attacked on defense every chance the Cavs get. That must be taken in to consideration.

I also think the Warriors probably win game 2 even without Curry's historic performance. Without Durant last night, they had no chance of winning. Last night was an all time Finals performance from him.


Precisely.

And Dep you proclaimed yourself that George Hill is donkey balls, yet that's curry's main defensive assignment in this series.

KD is guarding lebron on many if not most of the plays in this series.
it's not a knock  
Enzo : 6/7/2018 10:54 am : link
on Curry to say Durant is better. Curry is going to go down as one of the best guards to ever play - but KD is next level.

not 1 player is guarding lebron  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2018 11:03 am : link
they switch on everything ,and i have seen multiple players on lebron...
RE: RE: RE: Durant was shooting  
dep026 : 6/7/2018 11:05 am : link
In comment 13985420 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:


Precisely.

And Dep you proclaimed yourself that George Hill is donkey balls, yet that's curry's main defensive assignment in this series.

KD is guarding lebron on many if not most of the plays in this series.


When judging individual defense performances - you should realize that there is so many switches it is too hard to gauge who is stopping who. Durant may start off on Durant but one high screen and then its curry, bell, looney, thompson or whoever. Durant hasnt guarded Lebron as much as it appears.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Durant was shooting  
giantsfan44ab : 6/7/2018 11:07 am : link
In comment 13985441 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13985420 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:




Precisely.

And Dep you proclaimed yourself that George Hill is donkey balls, yet that's curry's main defensive assignment in this series.

KD is guarding lebron on many if not most of the plays in this series.



When judging individual defense performances - you should realize that there is so many switches it is too hard to gauge who is stopping who. Durant may start off on Durant but one high screen and then its curry, bell, looney, thompson or whoever. Durant hasnt guarded Lebron as much as it appears.


Right, the whole Cavs offense is based off getting Steph onto Lebron. KD and Draymond are absolutely doing an amazing job of coming to his help and rotating when lebron dishes out.
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