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Still thinking the Jets are the most likely team for a last

wgenesis123 : 4/14/2018 5:05 pm
minute trade. If the Jets get paranoid like the Bears did last year, that someone (Buffalo) will jump in front of them. Unlike the Bears last year the Jets have good reason to worry. If the Giants really want one of the QB's they are not likely to trade with anyone. If they like someone else (Barkley for example) they can still get him after a trade with the Jets at 3. Also once two of the Fab Four QB's are gone, QB hungry teams will get nervous and anything can happen. The historic shocker would be the Jets taking Barkley or any other non-QB at pick 2 or 3.
If the Giants don’t like any of the QBs,  
DonnieD89 : 4/14/2018 5:14 pm : link
I could definitely see this happening. I wonder what the Jets would be willing to trade up.
The Giants have never been an organization to move down if they  
Ivan15 : 4/14/2018 5:23 pm : link
have a commitment on a guy, regardless of position. DG isn't a trade down guy either.

So if the Giants are willing to trade down, it is either because their QB favorite (Darnold?) is gone (to the Browns or to whoever the Browns trade the #1) or they don't have a commitment on a QB. I think everyone knows that, but no one will know for sure until the Browns pick and the Giants are on the clock.

Essentially, if the Giants are willing to trade when they are on the clock, then they are not picking a QB. It is very unlikely that the Giants are equally committed to 2 QBs.
I think it would depend on how willing DG is to make the trade.  
wgenesis123 : 4/14/2018 5:26 pm : link
If he puts the Jets feet to the fire for the best deal possible, well the Jets probably can't afford it. If he is willing to take a 2nd round pick next year as a starting point, they may arrive at a deal.
Lets say the Browns take Allen. The Giants trade with the Jets  
wgenesis123 : 4/14/2018 5:41 pm : link
They are now on the clock at 3 and Darnold is till on the board, Allen and Mayfield went one-two. Do you look at the risk on Darnold any differently now that the risk is somewhat nullified by the extra pick or picks gained in the trade? He is still on the board so he must be considered again. Who knows what goes on in draft rooms.
It is very difficult for the Jets and Giants to trade.  
81_Great_Dane : 4/14/2018 6:03 pm : link
It's a PR danger for both sides.

If either one helps the other in a major way, and doesn't help itself, then they never hear the end of it. The sportswriters will spend 50 years killing the team that did worse. And let's face it, it's unlikely to really turn out even. Trades usually end up favoring one team more than the other, for whatever reasons.

Because the Giants have four championships since '86 and the Jets have none since '69, the Jets are in a somewhat more dangerous position. If the Jets trade with the Giants and the Giants end up with a star and the Jets don't, Joe Benigno and other radio and TV hosts will be killing them for it forever.
Giants and Jets aren't Making a Trade  
Jim in Tampa : 4/14/2018 6:23 pm : link
Everyone knows that the Jets want a QB. The Giants may or may not take a QB.

If the Giants are willing to trade with the Jets it means that they're NOT taking a QB...and if the Giants are NOT taking a QB, then why would the Jets need to trade up to 2?

Conversely, if the Giants ARE taking a QB, why would they give the Jets (who they know are taking a QB) the first shot at the remaining QBs?

A trade just doesn't make sense for either team, and that's before you even consider the PR ramifications (noted by others) of the Giants trading with the Jets.
RE: It is very difficult for the Jets and Giants to trade.  
the mike : 4/14/2018 6:32 pm : link
In comment 13914247 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
It's a PR danger for both sides.

If either one helps the other in a major way, and doesn't help itself, then they never hear the end of it. The sportswriters will spend 50 years killing the team that did worse. And let's face it, it's unlikely to really turn out even. Trades usually end up favoring one team more than the other, for whatever reasons.

Because the Giants have four championships since '86 and the Jets have none since '69, the Jets are in a somewhat more dangerous position. If the Jets trade with the Giants and the Giants end up with a star and the Jets don't, Joe Benigno and other radio and TV hosts will be killing them for it forever.


I hear you and I agree that this is more on the Jets side since you really can't compare the franchises anymore. This point was very valid the last time the Giants picked second and the Jets third in 1981 when it was Lawrence Taylor and Freeman McNeil... The Jets should have traded up then and thankfully George Young never entertained any trade offers back then!

But in many ways because the Giants-Jets never made that trade, the Giants are today a top five NFL franchise and the Jets are among the most woeful. When the Giants are on the clock, Gettleman will evaluate all offers on their merits and if any Jets trade offer is his most attractive option, he will not hesitate in making a trade...
Jim  
Jay in Toronto : 4/14/2018 6:32 pm : link
I've seen repeatedly that Denver is looking to trade back if -"their guy" is not on the Board.

Perhaps they think that Cleveland also wants their guy. If Cleveland doesn't (especially if Cleveland takes Barkley) suddenly there is incentive for them to jump Cleveland and the Jets to get their guy.

Similarly as the OP suggested, the Jets could get nervous and make the Giants an incredible offer to trade places to block Denver, Buffalo etc.
RE: Giants and Jets aren't Making a Trade  
the mike : 4/14/2018 6:35 pm : link
In comment 13914265 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
Everyone knows that the Jets want a QB. The Giants may or may not take a QB.

If the Giants are willing to trade with the Jets it means that they're NOT taking a QB...and if the Giants are NOT taking a QB, then why would the Jets need to trade up to 2?

Conversely, if the Giants ARE taking a QB, why would they give the Jets (who they know are taking a QB) the first shot at the remaining QBs?

A trade just doesn't make sense for either team, and that's before you even consider the PR ramifications (noted by others) of the Giants trading with the Jets.


The Jets would make the trade to preempt the Giants from trading with another team - especially Buffalo. So the Jets would have to make it very attractive to the Giants... Which is why Gettleman needs to play these two teams off of each other to maximize value to the Giants...
The Giants trading down with someone like Buffalo is the reason the  
wgenesis123 : 4/14/2018 6:42 pm : link
Jets would consider making the trade. You just can not assume a QB won't be taken at pick 1 or 2. As to the PR ramifications the Jets better get it right on the pick or the GM will be needing a job. Owners are more likely to care about long term PR, the GM has staked his job on this pick. If the PR is good, he will be here and if it is bad, it will be for someone else to worry about.
I would think if the jets call to inquire about moving up  
Shockwave : 4/14/2018 7:55 pm : link
to take #2 from the Giants, they would discuss with the Giants whom they are going to take. I imagine the Giants as with other teams will have a better idea of who a team is going to take in the first few picks. If the Giants have intel saying the Jets want a QB. Then I answer their inquiry with yes we are taking QB so and so just to bait them. Then its a no brainer to trade down to the 3...that is if the Giants don't want a QB. Or not the one that they want...
RE: I would think if the jets call to inquire about moving up  
Jim in Tampa : 4/14/2018 8:45 pm : link
In comment 13914346 Shockwave said:
Quote:
to take #2 from the Giants, they would discuss with the Giants whom they are going to take. I imagine the Giants as with other teams will have a better idea of who a team is going to take in the first few picks. If the Giants have intel saying the Jets want a QB. Then I answer their inquiry with yes we are taking QB so and so just to bait them. Then its a no brainer to trade down to the 3...that is if the Giants don't want a QB. Or not the one that they want...


The Jets aren't going to trade with the Giants AND tell the Giants which player they're picking. It doesn't work like that.

Also, the Giants don't need "intel" to figure out that the Jets traded up to 3 to get a QB. Everyone knows that they're taking a QB.

And finally, in your example, the Jets tell the Giants which player they're taking and the Giants trust that the Jets are telling the truth...but the Giants will lie to the Jets and the Jets will believe them.

LOL.
RE: The Giants have never been an organization to move down if they  
Boy Cord : 4/14/2018 10:07 pm : link
In comment 13914208 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
have a commitment on a guy, regardless of position. DG isn't a trade down guy either.

So if the Giants are willing to trade down, it is either because their QB favorite (Darnold?) is gone (to the Browns or to whoever the Browns trade the #1) or they don't have a commitment on a QB. I think everyone knows that, but no one will know for sure until the Browns pick and the Giants are on the clock.

Essentially, if the Giants are willing to trade when they are on the clock, then they are not picking a QB. It is very unlikely that the Giants are equally committed to 2 QBs.


If the Giants don’t plan to draft a QB, it would asinine not to trade with the Jets. Both teams will get the player they would have gotten anyway, and the Giants will add a pick or two.
I really believe  
BlueManFu : 4/14/2018 10:20 pm : link
The Jets plan is to say put and pick Mayfield at 3. They want his leadership, persona, and swagger. And talent of course. I think he’s their guy, and they knew at #3 they’d be guaranteed to get him.
RE: I really believe  
Saos1n : 4/14/2018 11:19 pm : link
In comment 13914448 BlueManFu said:
Quote:
The Jets plan is to say put and pick Mayfield at 3. They want his leadership, persona, and swagger. And talent of course. I think he’s their guy, and they knew at #3 they’d be guaranteed to get him.


This has been my train of thinking as well...

The move they made up to 3 was with a QB in mind, obviously... the only QB at that time, and still, guaranteed to make it to 3 has been, and is, Mayfield... at least a QB that is arguably deserving of going that high..
RE: I really believe  
Eman11 : 4/14/2018 11:26 pm : link
In comment 13914448 BlueManFu said:
Quote:
The Jets plan is to say put and pick Mayfield at 3. They want his leadership, persona, and swagger. And talent of course. I think he’s their guy, and they knew at #3 they’d be guaranteed to get him.


You may be right but there might very well be another team interested in Mayfield just as much as the Jets are.

Here's hoping the Jets get nervous about that team trading with the Giants for the #2, and offer their #1 next year to move from #3 - #2.
My bet is Dave Gettleman is a creature of habit...  
M.S. : 4/15/2018 7:20 am : link

...so he'll stay put at 2.

Then my guess is QB all the way.

I kinda feel for all those BBIers who've put in a lot of time dreaming up all sorts of intricate trade downs.

I don't think it's gonna happen.
Jets are guaranteed no worse than #3 QB  
Bob in Newburgh : 4/15/2018 7:22 am : link
There is absolutely no reason for them to make a trade.
RE: I really believe  
Tom from LI : 4/15/2018 7:27 am : link
In comment 13914448 BlueManFu said:
Quote:
The Jets plan is to say put and pick Mayfield at 3. They want his leadership, persona, and swagger. And talent of course. I think he’s their guy, and they knew at #3 they’d be guaranteed to get him.


This I agree with 100% He has NY Jets written all over him.
RE: Jets are guaranteed no worse than #3 QB  
Eman11 : 4/15/2018 8:38 am : link
In comment 13914563 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
There is absolutely no reason for them to make a trade.


Sure there is.

1) They don't want just the #3 QB. They want THEIR guy.
2) They get worried someone will trade up with the Giants and jump them for their guy.
3) If your guy is there, you do what you can to make sure you get him. You don't mess around and either hope he'll still be there or settle for another guy if he's not there.

Just like the Browns will do at #1 IMO. They'll target their guy and grab him. They won't get crafty and take someone else at #1, and risk their QB not being there at #4.
Never going to happen, never ever  
Torrag : 4/15/2018 9:21 am : link
No way gettelman cedes the rights to #2 so the Jets can get their franchise QB. He might trade it to another team but no way he opens himself up to a decade of backpage torture if the guy he could have had pans out. Never ever.
What picks do jets even have left?  
bhill410 : 4/15/2018 9:27 am : link
.
the whole narrative that  
markky : 4/15/2018 9:32 am : link
the Browns (Allen), Giants (Darnold), and Jets (Mayfield) all want different QB is pure speculation. Nobody knows this. It's just groupthink.

The Jets moved to 3 because they could, not because they prefer Mayfield over Darnold.
This is something in the range of what we could see with a trade  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/15/2018 10:09 am : link
Of course the players will vary but this is to get a general idea of aggregate overall value we would get in return. Also one of the only trade downs that still gaurantee us Barkley.


TRADE DOWN SCENARIO #3: TRADE WITH JETS

*Based on last years Bears/49ers trade (where Bears moved up from 3 to 2 for a QB)

GIANTS GIVE PICK #2
GIANTS GET PICKS #3,72,107 (3rd round 2019)

ROUND 1 Pick 3
Options: LB Tremaine Edmunds, Quentin Nelson, Saquon Barkley , Minkah Fitzpatrick, Bradley Chubb, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen
Choice: RB Saquon Barkley- Home-run threat in 3 phases: run ,pass and special teams. Giants get highest instant impact player in draft to make another run with Eli


Round 2 pick 2
Options: Will Hernandez OG, James Daniels,Billy Price, Ronnie Harrison, Ronald Jones, Sony Michel
Choice: Will Hernandez OG (pure hog mollie mauler second only to Nelson in this draft with better feet than he looks)


Round 3 pick 2
Options:Lorenzo Carter,Kyle Lauletta, Frank Ragnow ,Josh Sweat, Darius leonard
Choice:LB Lorenzo Carter -toolsy LB with size and speed in the Leonard Floyd mold


ROUND 3 Pick 7
Options: Quentin Meeks,Shaquem Griffen, Leonard Davis, Kellen Ballage, Rashaad Penny, Anthony Averrette, Duke Dawson, Nick Nelson
Choice: Quentin Meeks- most cerebral CB in draft class with decent size, can play press or man. Excellent instincts and anticipation.



ROUND 3 Pick 8
Options: Kyle Lauletta,Quentin Meeks,Shaquem Griffen, Lorenzo Carter, Shaquem Griffin,Oren Burks, Darius Leonard
Choice: QB Kyle Lauletta. Another coach on the field. Senior Bowl MVP. Outside the 1st round Qbs Giants paid most interest to him. insurance behind Webb once Eli retires with some upside.


2019 3rd rd pick
The Jets are the most logical trade partner.  
wgenesis123 : 4/15/2018 10:25 am : link
If the Giants want a QB they will take him at 2. If they do not and take Barkley or Chubb, the Jets still get the same QB that they would get at 2. The Giants still get to pick from Barkley and Chubb at 3 and get extra picks. The Jets on the other hand do have to be concerned with who else the Giants may trade with. Their GM has already staked his job on this pick with the big trade up to 3 with the Colts. He needs to do all he can to get his guy, he can't have division rival Buffalo snatch it away one pick ahead of him. That would be a real PR nightmare. As far as PR goes for the Giants no matter what they do out of all their options, if the Jets get a QB who does well, that potential exist. Also he will have to hear how he turned down a deal with the Jets and over time the 2 picks he turned down will be made to sound like he turned down 22 picks. Even if they take a QB it can happen every time the Jets win and the Giants lose. Its something DG has no control over so its pointless to be concerned about it. Certainly foolish to turn down your best offer if its the Jets because its the Jets. That is plain stupid.
RE: Never going to happen, never ever  
Eman11 : 4/15/2018 10:40 am : link
In comment 13914636 Torrag said:
Quote:
No way gettelman cedes the rights to #2 so the Jets can get their franchise QB. He might trade it to another team but no way he opens himself up to a decade of backpage torture if the guy he could have had pans out. Never ever.


What difference does it make if DG doesn't want a QB? Let's say he stays at 2 and takes a non QB, and the Jets take a QB at 3. DG will still be open to criticism for passing on that QB. What's the difference if he trades back to 3?

Or even if he takes a QB at 2, and the Jets QB at 3 turns out to be better, he's still open to all the backpage torture.

Bottom line is DG just gets the guy HE wants. If he can still get him at 3 while getting some extra picks, that's even better.
RE: The Jets are the most logical trade partner.  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/15/2018 10:52 am : link
In comment 13914671 wgenesis123 said:
Quote:
If the Giants want a QB they will take him at 2. If they do not and take Barkley or Chubb, the Jets still get the same QB that they would get at 2. The Giants still get to pick from Barkley and Chubb at 3 and get extra picks. The Jets on the other hand do have to be concerned with who else the Giants may trade with. Their GM has already staked his job on this pick with the big trade up to 3 with the Colts. He needs to do all he can to get his guy, he can't have division rival Buffalo snatch it away one pick ahead of him. That would be a real PR nightmare. As far as PR goes for the Giants no matter what they do out of all their options, if the Jets get a QB who does well, that potential exist. Also he will have to hear how he turned down a deal with the Jets and over time the 2 picks he turned down will be made to sound like he turned down 22 picks. Even if they take a QB it can happen every time the Jets win and the Giants lose. Its something DG has no control over so its pointless to be concerned about it. Certainly foolish to turn down your best offer if its the Jets because its the Jets. That is plain stupid.


The threat we trade the pick to a team that will take their top QB target has to be convincing AND they may have to have at least a moderately higher grade on that QB vs. The next one on their board.

These are not guaranteed plus the bad blood with our cotenants doesnt help either.
RE: RE: Never going to happen, never ever  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/15/2018 10:54 am : link
In comment 13914676 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13914636 Torrag said:


Quote:


No way gettelman cedes the rights to #2 so the Jets can get their franchise QB. He might trade it to another team but no way he opens himself up to a decade of backpage torture if the guy he could have had pans out. Never ever.



What difference does it make if DG doesn't want a QB? Let's say he stays at 2 and takes a non QB, and the Jets take a QB at 3. DG will still be open to criticism for passing on that QB. What's the difference if he trades back to 3?

Or even if he takes a QB at 2, and the Jets QB at 3 turns out to be better, he's still open to all the backpage torture.

Bottom line is DG just gets the guy HE wants. If he can still get him at 3 while getting some extra picks, that's even better.


Exactly for case in point why did the Bears and 49ers do the exact same swap last year?
Jets at 3  
fanofthejets : 4/16/2018 11:19 am : link
Jets I think like Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen, but they seem to like Mayfield above the other two. Worst case scenario, they're still going to end up with a QB they like

If stories start to appear about the Giants trading with Buffalo (who would take Mayfield) or stories about NYG liking Mayfield themselves start to appear the Jets will get antsy and may be forced into a trade to lock in BM.
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