Under Monday reading Smith made the point that whether Giants go quarterback at #2 will depend in large part upon Gettleman s assessment as to how much mileage Eli has left.
If true that surprises me. Coming off a 3-13 season it is unlikely Giants will be a Super Bowl contender next season. In effect Gettlemen would be banking on contending with a quarterback the two seasons following with a quarterback that will turn 39 and 40 during those seasons.
I have been a big Eli fan, but that seems like big risk if they believe a guy like Darnold can be the next guy.
I ve just believed all along if Giants pass on quarterback it would be because they don't believe he represents the value at #2, not because of how much mileage Eli has left.
The number is the number, and Eli will play every remaining regular season on his contract at the age he started that regular season.
There have been multiple posters saying Eli will be 38 this year. That is false.
It is absolutely true he will be 38 next year, both literally and figuratively.
But Christ, are you really trying to say it is correct both ways that eli is either 37 or 38? It's like saying fuck and duck are the same - it's just a letter!
I'm all for giving him a chance to bring the Giants back to relevancy, but would feel much better about it knowing the Giants have a Sam Darnold in the wings.
When you speak with such certainty that all these quarterbacks coming out are not worthy of the pick, you lose credibility. Of course there is a chance no matter whom is picked for a bust.
But the same people clamoring to get Eli more weapons, conveniently look the other way at his poor throws, turn overs, and lack of mobility, and yes his age.
Eli's play has slipped, you want to blame that on his surrounding cast, fine. But to not draft a quarterback because you believe Eli will play well for the next 3 seasons is much more risky than drafting any of the top 4 quarterbacks in this draft.
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In comment 13915992 Section331 said:
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In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:
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A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.
Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.
4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.
Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...
Disagree, you sort data at Airyards.com that show throwing from a clean pocket only Eli vs the NFL is below league average. Also, his best statistical season in the last 6 years was under McAdoo, this seems to refute the system argument. The clean pocket analysis removes the OL from the equation. Eli was fantastic in 2011 without a running game, so we know he can perform without a running game. Then, there is the overwhelming amount of historical evidence of NFL qBs declining with age that make your claim that "Eli has had no fallout because of age", quite frankly, ridiculous.
First of all, the 2011 team had a balanced attack with two very good running backs, three outstanding receivers and a very capable offensive line, some of whom were veterans of the 2007 super bowl team. The 2017 team had the worst offensive line in Giants history (and that is saying a lot!) and because of injuries, practice squad players at both wide receiver and running back.
Here are Eli's stats in both super bowl years and last year. Despite the absolute abomination of talent, coaching and scheme in 2017, the stats are comparable - some pluses and minuses for obvious reasons, but not a major falloff. Eli was simply not the problem in 2017:
Year/Games/Att/Comp/Comp%/Yds/TD/INT
2007 16/297/529/59%/3336/23/20
2011 16/359/589/61%/4933/29/16
2017 15/352/571/61%/3468/19/13
Sorry, not ridiculous. Just the facts.
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Look, anyone who wants to say Eli will be a 37 year old QB next year is correct, the same is true of the people who say he will be a 38 year old QB next year, because we are talking about 2-3 days depending on the official date
There have been multiple posters saying Eli will be 38 this year. That is false.
It is absolutely true he will be 38 next year, both literally and figuratively.
But Christ, are you really trying to say it is correct both ways that eli is either 37 or 38? It's like saying fuck and duck are the same - it's just a letter!
It's a stupid hill to die on.
I'm all for giving him a chance to bring the Giants back to relevancy, but would feel much better about it knowing the Giants have a Sam Darnold in the wings.
When you speak with such certainty that all these quarterbacks coming out are not worthy of the pick, you lose credibility. Of course there is a chance no matter whom is picked for a bust.
But the same people clamoring to get Eli more weapons, conveniently look the other way at his poor throws, turn overs, and lack of mobility, and yes his age.
Eli's play has slipped, you want to blame that on his surrounding cast, fine. But to not draft a quarterback because you believe Eli will play well for the next 3 seasons is much more risky than drafting any of the top 4 quarterbacks in this draft.
Joe, the problem is we are too weak of a team to use the one prime asset in this draft to select someone who will not support this team on the field in 2018. Unfortunately, we are not good enough to hedge our bets...
People act as if Eli is 38 now and keep saying he's a 38 year old guy (or even older). Is it even factually correct to call him 38 if he was born in December?
It's just strange that people keep inflating his age. Not sure why it keeps happening.
Eli will finish the regular season at 37 years old this year.
Eli will be a 37 year old QB this year.
Eli will be a 38 year old QB next year.
Eli 37 and 3/4 years old at the start of this season.
It is all fucking true and all mean nearly the same fucking thing. It is a ridiculous waste of time to nitpick over.
Eli will finish the regular season at 37 years old this year.
Eli will be a 37 year old QB this year.
Eli will be a 38 year old QB next year.
Eli 37 and 3/4 years old at the start of this season.
It is all fucking true and all mean nearly the same fucking thing. It is a ridiculous waste of time to nitpick over.
Then why are you arguing!?
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IS there any meaningful age difference between a QB being born December 30th 1980 and one born Jan 3rd 1981?
People act as if Eli is 38 now and keep saying he's a 38 year old guy (or even older). Is it even factually correct to call him 38 if he was born in December?
It's just strange that people keep inflating his age. Not sure why it keeps happening.
Sometimes I feel like I've taken crazy pills when I read this site.
And I guess it is OK - because it is close enough!
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Eli will be 38 before the start of the playoffs this season.
Eli will finish the regular season at 37 years old this year.
Eli will be a 37 year old QB this year.
Eli will be a 38 year old QB next year.
Eli 37 and 3/4 years old at the start of this season.
It is all fucking true and all mean nearly the same fucking thing. It is a ridiculous waste of time to nitpick over.
Then why are you arguing!?
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In comment 13916245 Thegratefulhead said:
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Eli will be 38 before the start of the playoffs this season.
Eli will finish the regular season at 37 years old this year.
Eli will be a 37 year old QB this year.
Eli will be a 38 year old QB next year.
Eli 37 and 3/4 years old at the start of this season.
It is all fucking true and all mean nearly the same fucking thing. It is a ridiculous waste of time to nitpick over.
Then why are you arguing!?
I'm not, I am saying quibbling over it is stupid. Britt, you nitpick this point often. It is specifically you I am speaking about.
No shit. Sorry about that, it's tough being one of the only posters who knows how the age thing works.
Um no! It was a hybrid system reflecting more of Coughlin's downfield passing concepts. The last two years of McAdoo's offense looked nothing like his first year as OC. It doesn't pass the eyeball test.
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In comment 13916026 the mike said:
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In comment 13915992 Section331 said:
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In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:
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A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.
Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.
4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.
Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...
Disagree, you sort data at Airyards.com that show throwing from a clean pocket only Eli vs the NFL is below league average. Also, his best statistical season in the last 6 years was under McAdoo, this seems to refute the system argument. The clean pocket analysis removes the OL from the equation. Eli was fantastic in 2011 without a running game, so we know he can perform without a running game. Then, there is the overwhelming amount of historical evidence of NFL qBs declining with age that make your claim that "Eli has had no fallout because of age", quite frankly, ridiculous.
First of all, the 2011 team had a balanced attack with two very good running backs, three outstanding receivers and a very capable offensive line, some of whom were veterans of the 2007 super bowl team. The 2017 team had the worst offensive line in Giants history (and that is saying a lot!) and because of injuries, practice squad players at both wide receiver and running back.
Here are Eli's stats in both super bowl years and last year. Despite the absolute abomination of talent, coaching and scheme in 2017, the stats are comparable - some pluses and minuses for obvious reasons, but not a major falloff. Eli was simply not the problem in 2017:
Year/Games/Att/Comp/Comp%/Yds/TD/INT
2007 16/297/529/59%/3336/23/20
2011 16/359/589/61%/4933/29/16
2017 15/352/571/61%/3468/19/13
Sorry, not ridiculous. Just the facts.
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In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:
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A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.
Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.
4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.
Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...
Slight fall off in velo off his ball just like we see with Brady. But their smarts make up for it. We should see a resurgence considering he may have a half decent OL and a significantly better scheme and gameplan under Shurmur/Shula
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In comment 13916147 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 13916026 the mike said:
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In comment 13915992 Section331 said:
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In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:
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A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.
Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.
4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.
Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...
Disagree, you sort data at Airyards.com that show throwing from a clean pocket only Eli vs the NFL is below league average. Also, his best statistical season in the last 6 years was under McAdoo, this seems to refute the system argument. The clean pocket analysis removes the OL from the equation. Eli was fantastic in 2011 without a running game, so we know he can perform without a running game. Then, there is the overwhelming amount of historical evidence of NFL qBs declining with age that make your claim that "Eli has had no fallout because of age", quite frankly, ridiculous.
First of all, the 2011 team had a balanced attack with two very good running backs, three outstanding receivers and a very capable offensive line, some of whom were veterans of the 2007 super bowl team. The 2017 team had the worst offensive line in Giants history (and that is saying a lot!) and because of injuries, practice squad players at both wide receiver and running back.
Here are Eli's stats in both super bowl years and last year. Despite the absolute abomination of talent, coaching and scheme in 2017, the stats are comparable - some pluses and minuses for obvious reasons, but not a major falloff. Eli was simply not the problem in 2017:
Year/Games/Att/Comp/Comp%/Yds/TD/INT
2007 16/297/529/59%/3336/23/20
2011 16/359/589/61%/4933/29/16
2017 15/352/571/61%/3468/19/13
Sorry, not ridiculous. Just the facts.
The QB stat with highest correlation to winning is Y/A and Adjusted Y/A You can see the decline easily here https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm You can look at the information form clean pockets only here http://airyards.com/qb.html
Yes but we disagree on where the fault lies - you say age, I say scheme, coaching and lack of supporting talent. Let's just agree to disagree.
Look, Eli Manning has never been and will never be Aaron Rodgers, Dan Marino or Joe Montana. He is a solid quarterback who works well as part of a well balanced offensive attack that works in synch with a relentless defense. It is a formula that has worked twice in the last decade - the only team except the Patriots to have done so, and we beat the Patriots twice!
The answer has always been to support Eli with as much blue chip talent on both sides of the ball and let the machine run - not tinker with need based reach draft picks, coaching changes and a scheme metamorphosis that played to a super bowl winning quarterback's weaknesses!
I'm all for giving him a chance to bring the Giants back to relevancy, but would feel much better about it knowing the Giants have a Sam Darnold in the wings.
When you speak with such certainty that all these quarterbacks coming out are not worthy of the pick, you lose credibility. Of course there is a chance no matter whom is picked for a bust.
But the same people clamoring to get Eli more weapons, conveniently look the other way at his poor throws, turn overs, and lack of mobility, and yes his age.
Eli's play has slipped, you want to blame that on his surrounding cast, fine. But to not draft a quarterback because you believe Eli will play well for the next 3 seasons is much more risky than drafting any of the top 4 quarterbacks in this draft.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, is giving Eli a total pass for the offense's failings, and most of us acknowledge that he isn't the same guy who threw the team on his back in 2011, but that doesn't mean he can't still be an effective QB given better weapons and a better scheme.
But to your last point, I completely agree. The Giants are not passing up on drafting a QB because of Eli. If they don't use the #2 pick on a QB, it will be because they do not think any of those available are worth the pick.
The draft picks for Shockey.
The answer has always been to support Eli with as much blue chip talent on both sides of the ball and let the machine run - not tinker with need based reach draft picks, coaching changes and a scheme metamorphosis that played to a super bowl winning quarterback's weaknesses!
The Eli Manning era with the giants can be described in lots of ways, but 'machine' is certainly not one of them. There's only one team in the sport that's been anything close to repetitive, boring success.
It's not Heresy or Hatred to note his age and performance and the State of The Team, including Draft Position.
Eli remains at a HOF Level in Prep and Pre-Snap--- in the right situation, I believe He could win a Superbowl as PIECE of a Great Team, similar to what Peyton accomplished with Denver.
Coming off 3-13 and the past 4-6 years, I don't believe The G's will put all their resources "All In with Eli"... if they see an NFL QB at 2, they will pick Him.
It's not Heresy or Hatred to note his age and performance and the State of The Team, including Draft Position.
Eli remains at a HOF Level in Prep and Pre-Snap--- in the right situation, I believe He could win a Superbowl as PIECE of a Great Team, similar to what Peyton accomplished with Denver.
Coming off 3-13 and the past 4-6 years, I don't believe The G's will put all their resources "All In with Eli"... if they see an NFL QB at 2, they will pick Him.
I don't have a problem with anybody thinking Eli is old for a QB, I just ask that his age is represented correctly, not exaggerated to fit the narrative above.
Secondly, Peyton's arm was shot in that Superbowl season. Eli still has a live arm and is much better at this point than Peyton was the year he won the Superbowl in Denver.
I've asked it a million times... What exactly is in decline? His arm strength? No, not seeing it (and neither is Gettleman or the coaches). Is he injury prone? No. Is there a mental decline at 37? No, in fact, he's probably mentally as football smart as ever.
What exactly is in decline?
This isn't like a battered RB. Eli protects himself.
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He just turned 37 this past January. He will play next season at 37 years old. He will play the final year of his contract at 38 years old.
The only way you will see Eli play at 39 and 40 for the Giants is if they add an additional 2 years to his current contract, which has two years left.
Exactly!! It is truly bizarre. He will be playing in his 37th and 38th year under his current contract. And if Eli leads the team to a super bowl in either of the next two years, he will then be given a Drew Brees like contract for his 39th and 40th years... These facts do not change because people wish them so.
Actually, he'll be playing in his 38th and 39th years. Your age refers to the number of years you've completed - you're not 1 when you're born.
Fuck I've been gone a long ass time.
~
This is an oft-stated point, but I don't think it really fits the comparison. Eli Manning isn't Tom Brady or Brett Favre, guys who played into their 40s because they were all-time special. He's not his brother, who came back from major neck surgery to throw a 55 touchdown season and then fell apart and had to be dragged to the finish line with an all-decade type defense.
Fuck I've been gone a long ass time.
~
Ha, welcome back. Still in RVA?
Yeah, 42 going on 50 (in Eli years).
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to emphasize that Eli's age is OLD for a NFL QB when we've seen the top QB's in each league older than he is.
This is an oft-stated point, but I don't think it really fits the comparison. Eli Manning isn't Tom Brady or Brett Favre, guys who played into their 40s because they were all-time special. He's not his brother, who came back from major neck surgery to throw a 55 touchdown season and then fell apart and had to be dragged to the finish line with an all-decade type defense.
What does being all time special have to do with it? You either physically are capable or you aren't.
Vinny Testeverde played until what? 44?
I'm down on the Pony Pasture.
The point is that eli is called old in the context that he's a far worse QB than he ever was and that he's severely declined because of his age.
Eli Manning seems like Eli Manning. He's physically still able to play and 37 year-old Eli doesn't really seem too different than 34 year old Eli, yet people reference his age as if it is clear he's old and finished.
I'm down on the Pony Pasture.
Nice! Love that area. We switched places I think, I moved out of Stratford Hills and now live on what used to be Bellgrade Plantation right off Polo Parkway.
Still playing music?
Mostly breweries and pubs now.
Mostly breweries and pubs now.
Nice, glad to hear it. Since our last interactions (how long have you been gone from here? Seems like awhile), I put together a regularly gigging band in the area as well. Playing Cary St., City Dogs, Canal Club, places like that. We cut a record as well and had it pressed to vinyl. Things have slowed a bit since we all started having kids, but we still get together and practice on the Northside once a week.
Life is good.
Life is good.
Indeed it is, glad you are doing well.
This is an oft-stated point, but I don't think it really fits the comparison. Eli Manning isn't Tom Brady or Brett Favre, guys who played into their 40s because they were all-time special. He's not his brother, who came back from major neck surgery to throw a 55 touchdown season and then fell apart and had to be dragged to the finish line with an all-decade type defense.
You don't have to point to Tom Brady or Brett Favre. Look at Drew Brees, Phil Rivers and Big Ben. Brees is older, and Rivers and Ben the same age, and each was in the top 5 in passing yardage last year.
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This is an oft-stated point, but I don't think it really fits the comparison. Eli Manning isn't Tom Brady or Brett Favre, guys who played into their 40s because they were all-time special. He's not his brother, who came back from major neck surgery to throw a 55 touchdown season and then fell apart and had to be dragged to the finish line with an all-decade type defense.
You don't have to point to Tom Brady or Brett Favre. Look at Drew Brees, Phil Rivers and Big Ben. Brees is older, and Rivers and Ben the same age, and each was in the top 5 in passing yardage last year.
Rivers and Roethlisberger are both a year younger than Eli. Same draft class does not equal same age.
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This is an oft-stated point, but I don't think it really fits the comparison. Eli Manning isn't Tom Brady or Brett Favre, guys who played into their 40s because they were all-time special. He's not his brother, who came back from major neck surgery to throw a 55 touchdown season and then fell apart and had to be dragged to the finish line with an all-decade type defense.
You don't have to point to Tom Brady or Brett Favre. Look at Drew Brees, Phil Rivers and Big Ben. Brees is older, and Rivers and Ben the same age, and each was in the top 5 in passing yardage last year.
Ben has been talking about retirement on and off for the last year and a half, but it helps that he's got two skill position players that are each top 3 at their position extending his career.
And Brees is in the same category as Brady and Favre in terms of best passers of all time. It's true that the greats play longer. They're declining from a much higher place. But then, there's Marino who was done at 38.