Without using specifics. You have heard and read from many posters. Based on what you know today. Who or what do you think the giants do with the number 2 overall pick?
Chubb wasn't on anyone's radar around here. I started hearing about him and then other reporters did too. Most Giants fans assumed he was not even in the picture due to the switch to the 3-4.
There has been a core group of people who have said Barkley or Chubb... that the QBs are not in play.
If Chubb is the pick this should be of literally zero surprise. The influence Chris Mara has on this team's drafts is comically understated. And Chris Mara is a defensive pass rusher guy.
I have no vested interest in who the Giants take or don't take.
But you post like your reputation is on the line if the Giants don't draft the way you want them to.
That’s interesting. Ive never considered a reputation or the idea that I had one.
I argue my opinions aggressively but I’d like to think Im always respectful. I try to be anyway.
Ive been very right in the past (I argued really hard for Eli back when that wasnt popular to do and against hiring McAdoo and wanted Marrone) and very wrong (I argued very hard to fire TC and hire Cowher). Im certainly willing to be very wrong but believe I am right.
I think this is the most important Giants offseason of our lifetimes. And thats why its so important to get it right.
There are 2 levels. What I want them to do and what they will do.
I want them to draft Josh Rosen.
What will they do?
I like to stay clear minded. To do that you have to really analyze things and stay big picture. The media narrative right now is that the Giants arent going QB. That has to be considered, But you have to ask- where are they getting their info from?
Best I can tell- they are not getting info from Giants sources. They are not citing those in their pieces. It appears the national media is picking up from the beats and going off that. This would make it far more likely they are wrong ad just speculating. King and Schwartz both cited the same exact Sean Payton quote, Why would he know Giants plans? I mean we had a big national story over what Chris Canty thoughts on what the Giants are doing. What does he know? (I was at Giants Stadium on Draft day in 2004 and asked every player I saw that day - about 12- and every single one said Gallery and definately no QB.)
My speculation is that the Giants have locked down info (and scouts are fearful of their jobs) and no ones talking. This is leaving the beats to talk to outside sources like “a national NFL scout” and going to guys we didnt hire like Riddick. I mean the new Schwartz article is “ex Giants GM option hints he knows 2 pick plans”.As if the Giants tipped off their draft plans back in December in an interview to an ESPN guy. Schwartz cited “an NFL scout who has crossed paths with Gettleman on the road over the years”.
I just am not seeing anything substantial in their reporting. Its all speculation from people outside the Giants.
In contrast when Schwartz posted his article on the Giants down to 3 for HC search (and it ruled out Wills - which had been media consensus at that point) I took notice because of what Schwartz cited.
So I think there is very good reason to doubt the media narrative which I could post but then this would be a novel.
The influence Chris Mara has on this team's drafts is comically understated.
I've yet to see someone quantify what his influence is. Maybe I'm missing something, but the reason nobody talks about it is because there's nothing documented about it.
That said. This is your site and Im very respectful of that fact. So if you think Im going too far, I will certainly tone it down.
I'm not offended. You are very passionate about this.
But I learned a long time ago that casually watching college football, reading the draft books, listening to the pundits, etc. will not make me an expert. There are guys who the Giants drafted who I thought would be great (and were supposed to be great) but ended up duds. And visa versa.
And even after the rookie season, it's no guarantee. I've used this example before. Thomas Randolph and Jason Sehorn ere drafted in the same draft. After one year, Sehorn looked like a bust and Randolph a budding star. That last one year before those roles were reversed.
So I don't get that wound up with it anymore. Who am I to say the Giants should draft Darnold or Rosen or Allen or they are stupid?
So I tend to look at things more strategically (or less specifically). Odds are the Giants won't be drafting in the top two for perhaps another two decades. If so, this is a great chance to nab a "franchise" QB. That's why I've advocated doing so.
But if the Giants don't think any of these QBs are franchise types, then it would be a mistake to draft one.
There is a lot of pressure on the Giants to get this right. Because if they pass on a "great" QB, it will always be rubbed in their faces by friends and foes alike.
Eli starts, team finishes close to last .Drafting a QB accelerates the return to the top. The kid gets one year under his belt playing a few games at years end. Following year we are ready to rock. And by finishing so poorly we can draft more quality assets. Two year turn around.
The influence Chris Mara has on this team's drafts is comically understated.
I've yet to see someone quantify what his influence is. Maybe I'm missing something, but the reason nobody talks about it is because there's nothing documented about it.
Has anyone with any actual connection to the Giants ever claimed Chris Mara has some kind of influence over the draft beyond what a team executive normally would? Or that he’s somehow secretly responsible for draft fuckups?
He regularly gets held up by some people as the bad guy and the guilty party from a family of meddling owners who don’t know what they’re doing.
I also don’t understand where that rep comes from.
Happy to admit I’m wrong if someone can offer proof to the contrary.
I think this is the most important Giants offseason of our lifetimes. And thats why its so important to get it right.
There are 2 levels. What I want them to do and what they will do.
I want them to draft Josh Rosen.
What will they do?
Well, I was alive when Simms and Taylor were drafted, not sure this one is more important but I agree with your sentiment. I think they should draft Rosen or Mayfield and fear they will not for image/non football reasons. I think this could affect us for a decade. I think the Jets are guaranteed to get one of Rosen or Mayfield. I don't want to watch either of them in green. However, I can take it as long we draft a perennial All Pro at 2. As long as we don't miss, I'm good.
I am not saying to always ignore your scouts. They are obviously very necessary.
I am saying with this one scenario. The 2 pick. We have a scout at GM and a QB guy at HC. This is a fundamental direction of the franchise pick.
There has been a core group of people who have said Barkley or Chubb... that the QBs are not in play.
We'll find out soon.
But you post like your reputation is on the line if the Giants don't draft the way you want them to.
But you post like your reputation is on the line if the Giants don't draft the way you want them to.
That’s interesting. Ive never considered a reputation or the idea that I had one.
I argue my opinions aggressively but I’d like to think Im always respectful. I try to be anyway.
Ive been very right in the past (I argued really hard for Eli back when that wasnt popular to do and against hiring McAdoo and wanted Marrone) and very wrong (I argued very hard to fire TC and hire Cowher). Im certainly willing to be very wrong but believe I am right.
I think this is the most important Giants offseason of our lifetimes. And thats why its so important to get it right.
There are 2 levels. What I want them to do and what they will do.
I want them to draft Josh Rosen.
What will they do?
I like to stay clear minded. To do that you have to really analyze things and stay big picture. The media narrative right now is that the Giants arent going QB. That has to be considered, But you have to ask- where are they getting their info from?
Best I can tell- they are not getting info from Giants sources. They are not citing those in their pieces. It appears the national media is picking up from the beats and going off that. This would make it far more likely they are wrong ad just speculating. King and Schwartz both cited the same exact Sean Payton quote, Why would he know Giants plans? I mean we had a big national story over what Chris Canty thoughts on what the Giants are doing. What does he know? (I was at Giants Stadium on Draft day in 2004 and asked every player I saw that day - about 12- and every single one said Gallery and definately no QB.)
My speculation is that the Giants have locked down info (and scouts are fearful of their jobs) and no ones talking. This is leaving the beats to talk to outside sources like “a national NFL scout” and going to guys we didnt hire like Riddick. I mean the new Schwartz article is “ex Giants GM option hints he knows 2 pick plans”.As if the Giants tipped off their draft plans back in December in an interview to an ESPN guy. Schwartz cited “an NFL scout who has crossed paths with Gettleman on the road over the years”.
I just am not seeing anything substantial in their reporting. Its all speculation from people outside the Giants.
In contrast when Schwartz posted his article on the Giants down to 3 for HC search (and it ruled out Wills - which had been media consensus at that point) I took notice because of what Schwartz cited.
So I think there is very good reason to doubt the media narrative which I could post but then this would be a novel.
I've yet to see someone quantify what his influence is. Maybe I'm missing something, but the reason nobody talks about it is because there's nothing documented about it.
I'm not offended. You are very passionate about this.
But I learned a long time ago that casually watching college football, reading the draft books, listening to the pundits, etc. will not make me an expert. There are guys who the Giants drafted who I thought would be great (and were supposed to be great) but ended up duds. And visa versa.
And even after the rookie season, it's no guarantee. I've used this example before. Thomas Randolph and Jason Sehorn ere drafted in the same draft. After one year, Sehorn looked like a bust and Randolph a budding star. That last one year before those roles were reversed.
So I don't get that wound up with it anymore. Who am I to say the Giants should draft Darnold or Rosen or Allen or they are stupid?
So I tend to look at things more strategically (or less specifically). Odds are the Giants won't be drafting in the top two for perhaps another two decades. If so, this is a great chance to nab a "franchise" QB. That's why I've advocated doing so.
But if the Giants don't think any of these QBs are franchise types, then it would be a mistake to draft one.
There is a lot of pressure on the Giants to get this right. Because if they pass on a "great" QB, it will always be rubbed in their faces by friends and foes alike.
Quote:
The influence Chris Mara has on this team's drafts is comically understated.
I've yet to see someone quantify what his influence is. Maybe I'm missing something, but the reason nobody talks about it is because there's nothing documented about it.
Has anyone with any actual connection to the Giants ever claimed Chris Mara has some kind of influence over the draft beyond what a team executive normally would? Or that he’s somehow secretly responsible for draft fuckups?
He regularly gets held up by some people as the bad guy and the guilty party from a family of meddling owners who don’t know what they’re doing.
I also don’t understand where that rep comes from.
Happy to admit I’m wrong if someone can offer proof to the contrary.
I think this is the most important Giants offseason of our lifetimes. And thats why its so important to get it right.
There are 2 levels. What I want them to do and what they will do.
I want them to draft Josh Rosen.
What will they do?