Hope we can Complete a Screen Pass this Year

Not sure why but he looks extremely unnatural and usually makes RB work to catch it. He throws fastballs when they are close and rarely can lead them with touch.

Is a combo of Eli and the OL. Anyone with eyes can see that Eli isn’t great at short passes. And I love Eli almost as much as Britt but it’s true. But if he’s not facing 7 unblocked rushers he can hit the short pass much better. So if the OL is sufficient we should see improved production from the screen. If he’s continually rushed I think it will be more of the same. And I would surmise from Barkley’s skills that we would get HUGE production from those screens.

Is that Eli can’t throw a screen pass. Executing a screen takes coordination and timing between the OL and RB. If it is executed properly the QB is literally dumping the ball off to the RB five yards away. What makes anyone think Eli would have trouble completing that pass? It’s beyond ridiculous. It seemed to work fine when Tiki was here and our OL was decent.

I think some fans watch Eli throw one at the feet of the RB and think it was a bad throw. The vast majority of those instances Eli is just throwing it away on a broken play rather than turn it over or let the RB get tackled for a five yard loss.

If so, what changed? No Gilbride? No Tiki?

reason why the QB position should continue to be evaluated closely. Geno Smith did a better job on short throws in his one game. Manning has serious trouble making short throws and what's more ridiculous is not seeing that. With Barkley being what he is a Lauletta might be an improvement in another year.

After Tiki left the Giants didn't practice screens as much in camp (at least in Albany). That showed, as the line simply wasn't very good at selling screens. Recently, the line simply wasn't very good at anything...that has changed, I believe.

You have to be committed to screens, and you need all three phases...the QB, the Line, and the RB's (plus the WR's for bubble screens) involved, with a lot of reps at camp. Hopefully, that will change this year.

Work on them.
Maybe if he loops a throw to a designated spot they can have SB swing deep enough back and run to the spot so he catches it in stride.
Maybe we important is the ability to sell it and have a defender overreact on the push to the QB or freeze a defender reading the play long enough to let SB catch it and avoid thedefender.
I trust they know it's not been Eli strong suit but will find a way to make it work. A fake screen and downfield pass will make a defender play back just a little the second time.

In comment 13950140 Trainmaster said:

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If so, what changed? No Gilbride? No Tiki?

No Snee.
No Seubert.

In comment 13950174 JohnF said:

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After Tiki left the Giants didn't practice screens as much in camp (at least in Albany). That showed, as the line simply wasn't very good at selling screens. Recently, the line simply wasn't very good at anything...that has changed, I believe. You have to be committed to screens, and you need all three phases...the QB, the Line, and the RB's (plus the WR's for bubble screens) involved, with a lot of reps at camp. Hopefully, that will change this year.

Our svreen game with Fassel in '02 was pretty damn on point...just sayin. Might be room for an offensive assistants job if he wants it. Real talk....why not?

In comment 13950237 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 13950140 Trainmaster said: Quote: If so, what changed? No Gilbride? No Tiki? No Snee. No Seubert.

Wrong on Snee....he wasnt herre yet when our screen had real teeth ('02).

Some of you guys are delusional to think that all of Eli's faults can be attributed to someone else. It's always the OL, WRs, RBs or even the coach's game plan. It's never on Eli.

We're all watching the same games. Anyone can see that Eli is just not good at screen passes or for that matter, any short passes to a RB.

How many times have we seen Eli under a bit of pressure, when he spots a wide open RB about 3-5 yds away, throw a fastball to the RB's shins?

Throughout his career Eli has been good at a lot of things. It's alright to admit that throwing a screen pass or any short pass to a RB is not one of Eli's strengths.

that I've ever seen. it's like watching Shaq shoot a free throw

In comment 13950260 Jim in Tampa said:

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Some of you guys are delusional to think that all of Eli's faults can be attributed to someone else. It's always the OL, WRs, RBs or even the coach's game plan. It's never on Eli. We're all watching the same games. Anyone can see that Eli is just not good at screen passes or for that matter, any short passes to a RB. How many times have we seen Eli under a bit of pressure, when he spots a wide open RB about 3-5 yds away, throw a fastball to the RB's shins? Throughout his career Eli has been good at a lot of things. It's alright to admit that throwing a screen pass or any short pass to a RB is not one of Eli's strengths.

Yes.

Even with Bradshaw. My complaint is that post 2011 the play calls went away from them / forgot they were in the playbook. Gilbride used to run a lot of different runs based on short throws. Benny mac was an imbecile with no creativity. (And no line)

Do people actually see how many RB screen passes the Giants attempt - it is very little. They run more WR screens than set RB screens.

You do need capable OL to run screens and the right side of Jerry/Hart were not guys who could move.

Where Eli has struggled more recently is the short RB swing pass hitting guys in stride. A lot of that is on him clearly, but I think that will change with the caliber of RB.

Vereen was a very good pass catching RB, but he was a guy who would release and go straight downfield. He caught very few on the sides.

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In comment 13950139 Scuzzlebutt said:

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Is that Eli can’t throw a screen pass. Executing a screen takes coordination and timing between the OL and RB. If it is executed properly the QB is literally dumping the ball off to the RB five yards away. What makes anyone think Eli would have trouble completing that pass? It’s beyond ridiculous. It seemed to work fine when Tiki was here and our OL was decent. I think some fans watch Eli throw one at the feet of the RB and think it was a bad throw. The vast majority of those instances Eli is just throwing it away on a broken play rather than turn it over or let the RB get tackled for a five yard loss.

Actually, he is pretty piss poor at it. Yes, pressure hurts it but sometimes you catch pressure with a nice last second dump off. Eli is not good at that at all. By the way, Tiki has been gone since 2006, so unless you want to blame the Oline for the last 12 years, your example is worthless.

In other words, a screen only works if the RB gets OPEN, not just be able to catch a ball tossed to him.

I don't know if Barkley has the talent to get open, but where he will really help is with the play-action pass which Eli is terrific at. Defenses will have to respect the run this year and that should make the play-action pass work.

Can Barkley throw? Dare I imagine him throwing an option pass to Engram?

on this 2018 team...

In comment 13950276 stretch234 said:

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Do people actually see how many RB screen passes the Giants attempt - it is very little. They run more WR screens than set RB screens. You do need capable OL to run screens and the right side of Jerry/Hart were not guys who could move. Where Eli has struggled more recently is the short RB swing pass hitting guys in stride. A lot of that is on him clearly, but I think that will change with the caliber of RB. Vereen was a very good pass catching RB, but he was a guy who would release and go straight downfield. He caught very few on the sides.

Hernandez runs like a runaway 18 wheeler. Our screen passes will now be used to terrorize defenses.

Seemed like b Mac made a comment (maybe it was Sully) to the effect that they had a giant playbook and would get into the season and see which parts were working best, could run anything.

But it seemed like they only practiced 20% of it and ran on game day 10% of what they practiced.

Average like over 50 catches per year under Eli?

1. Eli is horrible at throwing screen pass and short passes to RB's.

2. Even though that's true Tiki made huge yardage catching short passes from Eli.

3. 1 & 2 are both 100% true.

4. Maybe the new coaches will help Eli after all these years put some decent touch on those passes.

5. If healthy Barkley will make huge plays catching Eli's crappy short passes, with the nose down, thrown too hard, with no touch and no
lead.

Being able to actually run well will help us get over the fallacy that short passes can or should completely replace the run.

It just left our line without a decent basis from which to improve.

That must be the biggest benefit of run to pass, improvement in line play for both run and pass.

overstated. Maybe he's not Drew Brees, but when he has weapons in the backfield, he can execute screens just fine. He did it with Tiki, Bradshaw, and Vereen (when healthy). Vereen caught 114 passes in 37 games, 44 last year, and he was almost exclusively a 3rd down back.

Almost inexplicably so. The short game is far and away his biggest weakness - even bigger than his lack of mobility. He throws that sidearm dart & you can tell the pass comes in at an awkward, random angle and speed that catches the RB off guard even when completed.

Romo was on the air last year and said one of the huge things that separates QBs is their ability to hit RBs perfectly in stride, and lead them to open spaces. Romo was masterful at this so it's no surprise he sees it as a key trait, but it's something Eli struggles badly with.

That actually know wtf they are doing in space.

and there was success with such plays with other RBs in his past. That is different than saying Eli throws a "good screen pass".

My general view is Eli can throw short passes to RBs that may/may not turn into decent plays.

But he indeed does not throw a good screen pass whereas the QB sells the play, properly gets depth in his dropback, has patience to let the rush come in, and then puts proper touch and air on the ball to lead it into the RBs hands.

He does not do this well and really never has...

No one thing is especially difficult - for professionals - but you only need one to go wrong to screw up the play. The Giants have been fairly bad at all of them for years. Blame Eli for the bad throws, Jacobs/Williams/etc. for the drops and poor reads, the various Linemen for the missed blocks and early releases. It all adds up to a low percentage of execution, and the CBA’s limits on practice time haven’t helped. A team can only invest so many snaps in correcting a weakness.

In comment 13950139 Scuzzlebutt said:

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Is that Eli can’t throw a screen pass. Executing a screen takes coordination and timing between the OL and RB. If it is executed properly the QB is literally dumping the ball off to the RB five yards away. What makes anyone think Eli would have trouble completing that pass? It’s beyond ridiculous. It seemed to work fine when Tiki was here and our OL was decent. I think some fans watch Eli throw one at the feet of the RB and think it was a bad throw. The vast majority of those instances Eli is just throwing it away on a broken play rather than turn it over or let the RB get tackled for a five yard loss.

Screen passes become lawn darts when Eli is throwing them

To Tiki Barber and Derrick Ward.

in addition to the Oline getting out to do there job. Lastly, would like to see better blocking from the WRs. Both Burress and Toomer were very adept at blocking and that also helps in the screen game too.

If you fail to put the opponent's front 7 on the horns of a dilemma on each and every play as to "is it a run or pass."

If they know it's not run and are therefore able to get skinny and take risks and blow shit up, by definition your playing WUS ball and the moment of QB delay or hesitation (Waiting for ol to get out there in position) mentioned above won't be there.

Forget the screen. Key to the season is a reliable and legit outside run threat.

Can just forget how to throw a screen pass after having many years of successfully doing so. Its not like its an arm issue. Maybe its just a coincidence that Eli hasnt been good at that past 6-7 years where the OL has also been very bad? Could it be that also they NEVER practiced screen passes in McAdoo's terrible offense? I can probably count on one hand the amount of well-timed/well-executed screens that were called in the last 4 years.

and then he releases the short pass to the RB. Not always but there are times when this happens. Good luck with Eli doing that.
Tiki fixed many of Eli's throws.

caught 59 passes in 2015. 44 last year. Gallman caught 34 last year in limited time as a rookie.

Screen passes were probably the last thing on a list of 100 of what was wrong with that shit show of an offense.

And please stop with this thing that Eli can't throw a screen. Tiki went bananas with Eli under center and did a lot of damage out of the backfield. Perkins showed promise in 2016 out of the backfield.

Eli doesn't have the touch to be effective in the screen game.
Don't expect him to fix all of his problems in one off season, hopefully he can seize the opportunity that Barkley presents as a pass catcher.
Hopefully.

...highly inaccurate.

Can't lead a guy into a spot.

Can't hit a guy AT a spot.

Don't know why it is, but Eli is scary inaccurate in the flat 5-10 yards away from where he stands.

It's gotten to the point where -- he knows he sucks so badly -- that he almost mechanically tries to just push the ball to where he hopes it should go.

Good timing and sense by the QB, good deception, football IQ, and athletic movement by the OL, and good abilities from
the QB and RB. We probably didn't have this in spades last few years.

In comment 13950237 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 13950140 Trainmaster said: Quote: If so, what changed? No Gilbride? No Tiki? No Snee. No Seubert.

You are spot on!

short passes...then when he puts a perfectly placed ball on a slant that OBJ takes 80 yards to the house say "OBJ bails him out again"...

short passes...then when he puts a perfectly placed ball on a slant that OBJ takes 80 yards to the house say "OBJ bails him out again"...

Eli has been horrible at screens and swing passes. I saw every pass he threw to Tiki and for everyone he caught they missed on two others. He has never been comfortable with these touch passes and saying he has been is just revisionist history.

In comment 13950664 JerseyCityJoe said:

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Eli has been horrible at screens and swing passes. I saw every pass he threw to Tiki and for everyone he caught they missed on two others. He has never been comfortable with these touch passes and saying he has been is just revisionist history.

This is utter bullshit. If anyone is guilty of revisionist history, it is you. I saw every pass Eli threw to Tiki at Giants Stadium live. They missed on a few, but hit on far more. The idea that it was one out of 3 is moronic.

work best when defenses rush with heavy pressure so that there is a lot of space at the second level. They can be very hard to execute against a cover-2 defense.

The Giants offensive line has been so bad over the last near-decade, that defenses are getting immediate pressure rushing only 4 guys and are sitting in cover 2.
Defenses have been able to sit back, get pressure with minimal numbers and use linebackers and cornerbacks to take away the flats where Eli would check down or throw a screen.

The efficacy of a screen pass going forward will be less about Barkley's ability to catch the ball, and more about our offensive line's ability to offer a run game and be able to pass-protect.

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In comment 13950744 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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work best when defenses rush with heavy pressure so that there is a lot of space at the second level. They can be very hard to execute against a cover-2 defense. The Giants offensive line has been so bad over the last near-decade, that defenses are getting immediate pressure rushing only 4 guys and are sitting in cover 2. Defenses have been able to sit back, get pressure with minimal numbers and use linebackers and cornerbacks to take away the flats where Eli would check down or throw a screen. The efficacy of a screen pass going forward will be less about Barkley's ability to catch the ball, and more about our offensive line's ability to offer a run game and be able to pass-protect.

Great analysis thanks....

Eli just seems to panic when he is making those throws. He's never had the knack and I doubt he will get it now.

when Tiki was here.

In comment 13950849 Matt M. said:

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when Tiki was here.

Or Bradshaw. However, we didn't incorporate a lot of screens in McAdoo's offense.