doesn't look like this was posted...if it was, I'll delete...
from ProFootball Talk...
“For the first time ever, I didn’t know what the future held,” he said, via the New York Daily News. “I tried not to overthink it and draw conclusions off information I didn’t know. Just had to say, ‘Hey, I have to be positive through the season, offseason, and just work out and be ready for whatever is thrown at me.’
“Obviously, I was very excited to hear news from Mr. Gettleman and Mr. Mara they wanted me back. I work extremely hard to keep my job and when you almost lose something it makes you appreciate it even more. That’s certainly the case here.”
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His comments were in relation to DG and PS comments after being hired.
Pretty shortly after Gettleman and Shurmur were hired, it was made clear to Eli that they still wanted him here and wanted him to be the starter. So, he said at that point most of the uncertainty had gone away and that he was happy they showed such unwavering faith in him.
(Whether or not they're right or wrong has already been discussed ad nauseam, so we don't need to go there - but that's how I interpreted this)
;>)
Even St. Elisha will be cut some day.
Even St. Elisha will be cut some day.
Or retire on his terms.
Even St. Elisha will be cut some day.
I don't think it was complacency as much as it was his football career might be suddenly over.
In about 75 days he was:
A. Sat down,
B. With ownership approval,
C. RestoreD to starter by owner for the sole purpose of saving the owners face,
E The team hired DG, a no nonsense GM who cares little of players fame,
F. The owner who signed off on his sit down said he was the QB for '18, though he has a contract through 2019,
G Hiring PS as HC, who loves the mobile QB, which is NOT Eli's forte.
Awareness that , suddenly, it might be all over.
I'm sure he was coming to the realization, even talking with Archie and Peyton, about 'When do you know it may end?'; and the answer is likely, ' When ownership looks like they are willing to move on from you".
Shurmur is overrated and Mike shula is not his father
Shurmur is overrated and Mike shula is not his father
How can so many of you post almost for the singular reason to either trash Eli or those who support him?
Do you have a fucking logical answer to that?
He’s been productive or even very productive 3 of the last 4 seasons.
To me the Eli bashers are the ones making excuses. You’re making shit up.
Some of you suck. You bring nothing to the table.
I’m not sure I’ve ever seen so much interesting stuff in one sentence...
How can so many of you post almost for the singular reason to either trash Eli or those who support him?
Do you have a fucking logical answer to that?
I fucking hate morons. It's probably a character flaw. But anger isn't the issue. I laugh when I think of what goes on in the warped minds of others.
You know who thinks I'm angry? Posters like you who seem proud to be a dimwit.
We're on a Giants board and you think calling people who root for players are fanboys??
I could drop 60 pounds and the thought of you as an imbecile will still be there.....
In that time, the narrative was much different. There was blame to go around and it was acknowledged that the play at QB needed to improve. The Eli benching was an all time low for this organization. We criticize Mara, but there is no questioning the man deeply cares about his players.
Perhaps it is purely coincidence, but we have observed a stark dramatic shift in organizational narrative regarding the QB since that point. No longer do we hear even hear mild nudges like “we need to improve everywhere QB included” or subtle acknowledgement of QB role in 3 wins. Everything is “We are all in on Eli” or the most fit 37 year old I’ve ever seen, he has years left, he’s still got it, singling out Philly game ignoring everything else, etc.
I believe Eli is capable of quality play and look forward to a rebound season from him. But the gushing over a QB coming off a 3-13 season in consideration of the offensive performance the last two years is a little over the top and at least a small bit disingenuous, IMO. If we are being completely honest with ourselves. I don’t know anything as fact. But seeing such a dramatic pivot in organizational messaging regarding the QB following the benching fiasco, starting with Spags, and varying forward with DG and PS is notable. Perhaps curiously more than coincidence. ...Or perhaps not.
Funny as I never see any pictures or braggadocious memes about Eli and making a case for HOF based on beating Tom Brady twice.
It seems most Eli apologists are more Eli fans over Giants fans. How many emails and mail did Mara receive with hate when Eli was benched and all because Mara wanted it that way but when he saw the back lash and Eli crying he made up a lame excuse and fired McAdoo in season.
The hate was so bad that he decided to hire a qb coach and new gm and instructed them Eli must be kept and giving all chances to continue Giants career which explains no interest in the qb's and taking a weapon for Eli.
Mara panicked, that is my belief based on the things he said before and after the season.
Mara panicked, that is my belief based on the things he said before and after the season.
Jesus Christ. Where's the grassy knoll in the Meadowlands?
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Likely not, but let me tell you...There were plenty of team plaudits.
Funny as I never see any pictures or braggadocious memes about Eli and making a case for HOF based on beating Tom Brady twice.
It seems most Eli apologists are more Eli fans over Giants fans. How many emails and mail did Mara receive with hate when Eli was benched and all because Mara wanted it that way but when he saw the back lash and Eli crying he made up a lame excuse and fired McAdoo in season.
The hate was so bad that he decided to hire a qb coach and new gm and instructed them Eli must be kept and giving all chances to continue Giants career which explains no interest in the qb's and taking a weapon for Eli.
Mara panicked, that is my belief based on the things he said before and after the season.
Quit plagiarizing me, please. Thank you. ; )
I couldn’t agree more, btw.
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The hate was so bad that he decided to hire a qb coach and new gm and instructed them Eli must be kept and giving all chances to continue Giants career which explains no interest in the qb's and taking a weapon for Eli.
Mara panicked, that is my belief based on the things he said before and after the season.
Jesus Christ. Where's the grassy knoll in the Meadowlands?
Please look up the interview Mara had with Mike Francesa after the Eli benching. He told Mike that he was beyond shocked that Eli teared up and he did not expect that reaction from Eli. He then says Jerry Reese and Ben McAdoo were instructed that Eli starts but if he struggles he wants to see the other qb's. He claims Jerry and Ben had mixed up what he meant and thought he wanted Eli to take a seat after the half. Which i fully expected is what Mara wanted because you either do or you dont.
Mara saw the backlash which was beyond pathetic for a 3-13 team who had just wasted a pick in the third round on a qb knowing we could have seen something even if small before the draft where we were going to be drafting high.
Mara then fired McAdoo after he was hired to be the Eli guru and it worked for 2 years but as a coach Eli sucked and he was terrible at handling the team. He should have been fired but the Giants fire coaches in the off season not in season but this time mara needed to so he could start to fix the mess he created but threw Reese and McAdoo under the bus. Please explain why Reese who is just a GM was fired as well before the season ended? Yea it was a clean cut by Mara because he was the one and he got scared about the fans killing him for hurting an iconic player like Eli.
I feel he thinks the Giants owe Eli and is what the fans want to see. If some of you would just think for a second of what has happened you might learn a thing or two
Mara hires a qb who has proven shit as a HC but has done great things for qb's like Foles and Keenum and Mara saw that as a shot to improve Eli and hired an old DG who will want to win now instead of putting a stamp as his team. He did this perfectly and hired a 3 year window coach and GM
The coach and GM talked Eli up and DG reviewed the Eagles game and said WOW, but failed to see the tape the following week or the game killing picks Eli threw in that WOW eagles game.
Yea Eli had no receivers and oline has been suspect for a few years but Eli is not the same player and has regressed a bit and that is something easily seen on tape.
Mara is hoping that Eli and SB and new coach and GM get a shot to make the playoffs and see if old Eli resurfaces in the playoffs at the expense of the future of the team. That will be a fata decision if the Giants are forced to trade high picks to move up in the near future or sign a FA to be money and the qb's they passed turn into something.
yea SB is a terrific player but this whole draft and coach and gm search was all done for Eli.
That is my thinking anyway and in a couple of years we will see
We will see the progression of the current roster with decisions to be made on Beckham and Collins and how we continue to build the OL.
Eli will likely be gone 2-3 years from now no matter how well he and the team did.
I don't get the idea that people float where Mara is equal parts incompetent buffoon and manipulating dictator.
Never seen so many people root for a player in their own team to fail in my life.
The coach and GM talked Eli up and DG reviewed the Eagles game and said WOW, but failed to see the tape the following week or the game killing picks Eli threw in that WOW eagles game.
So after a 3-13 year, Mara decides he just wants to placate Eli instead of build a consistent winner. What would the talking point have been if McDaniels agreed to an offer?
Basically, Mara is calling all the shots and he hired a failed HC and an old GM to be the puppets? That's the angle you are going for here?
The best part is Gettleman watching one game of tape.
Like dep says - it is mind-boggling the scenarios people will go through to both subtly and overtly trash Eli. Including concocting elaborate theories.
Agree, on both sides of the debate.
Don't you see they are sucking you in with these posts? And you all take the bait everytime.
consider yourself "sucked"...
In some cases, I'm willing to bet all three.
Same people is what I was referring to.
The batshit is coming from a few guys, other than to some of you that think they are "everywhere" and are "many".
I think its really like about 7 of you all combined that make up 80% of these arguments...
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Every thread saying the same things.
Agree, on both sides of the debate.
Don't you see they are sucking you in with these posts? And you all take the bait everytime.
consider yourself "sucked"...
If you read the threads that consist of Eli, the asme people who bash him in every thread say the same things. But notice that people who defend Eli usually rarely talk about him anymore. All of us know the time is coming to an end, many of us wanted a successor. And we are all hoping he has 1 run left.
But instead we are considered defenders, cultists, apologists. Its sad and pathetic.
There is a side that keeps saying that Eli is finished and that his mere presence of the roster is an albatross that hurts us from signing players and building a team, which leads to a position that not drafting a QB (high) is a fatal error. We can leave the Mara conspiracy theories aside even.
There isn't a side saying Eli Manning is great and carrying the team.
The other side is basically refuting the bullshit from the first side. And for that, they are called Eli apologists, cultists, etc.
There is only one extreme position taken. The other position is basically to call out morons for wild conspiracies and for incessently using the term "Jints Central"
No it's really not. Sorry to burst your bubble.
That was a logical stance, and has been proven true.
The other side can't handle this, and now you have the wild rationalization and batshit conspiracy theories.
But it is the BBI way.
It's not about Eli. It's about being able to read the organization and tell how they were going to build the team. If you've been focused on Eli with laser like focus for the past four months, you were blinded to what was happening around him. In some cases, the hatred of Eli made these proclamations even more grandiose. It never made logical sense to cut Eli. It never made logical sense to bench Eli.
Was what happened with him a major tell? Yes. But it was just part of the puzzle of figuring out what the team was doing.
Again, it's not about Eli, contrary to what all these a-holes that call people apologists would tell you. It's about taking a logical and rational approach to trying to understand what the organization was going to do at a very pivotal point.
he would have totally ended up on another team
but there is no way on earth any team would have paid him
$22,200,000
and here lies the problem
People have been so caught up in value, especially positional value, that they've ignored the economics of the situation. Bitch as they may about Barkley, but he represents a MASSIVE $$ savings over the alternative. Eli is responsible for something like $17M this year and $22M next year (not sure how accurate that is). Cutting him would be a shitload of dead money. Drafting a QB and either benching eli or having the rookie sit is a ton of money allocated to the QB position.
But instead of looking at economics, several posters fabricated that Mara gave a Save Eli Proclamation. Hired a coach and GM for the sole reason to save face. Instead, the team took the most logical way to handle eli's last couple of seasons, while still giving us a chance to win.
So many debate why Eli is on the team. The economics say it would've been a terrible move for him not to be. And if you want to pin one more poor decision on the past regime - that contract structure is behind it.
I was called every name in the book, Eli lover, apologist, cultist, etc....
But all I did was say "here's what's going to happen and why". And it wasn't because I was supporting Eli per se, but I just read the situation exactly how I would read it if it wasn't my favorite team.
QB drafted at 2, later, or not at all... Keeping Eli as the starter in the meantime was always going to be the move. It is the right move. And it is the same move most (if not all) every other team in the league would make in the same situation.
he would have totally ended up on another team
but there is no way on earth any team would have paid him
$22,200,000
and here lies the problem
If Kurt Cousins can get fully guaranteed 84mm for three years (28 per year), its not out of the realm of possibility some team pays Eli 20-22 for 1-2 years.
I honestly can't recall any others.
Reading your posts make me feel like that wasn’t all that bad...
Reading your posts make me feel like that wasn’t all that bad...
Yeah, well likewise. I'm sorry that the team pretty much went the exact opposite of what you said it would do so adamantly for the past 4 months.
Bullsh-t. It played out exactly how Fatman said it did.
Whatever you have to do to protect your ego, I guess.
Reading your posts make me feel like that wasn’t all that bad...
you sure that was the dentist?
I honestly can't recall any others.
His big bro? Brett Favre?
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cut or traded? Maybe Joe Montana getting traded to the Chiefs at age 37?
I honestly can't recall any others.
His big bro? Brett Favre?
I don't think those are comparable. Peyton missed an entire offseason after having four neck surgeries in two years. There was a question whether he could ever play again.
Favre "retired".
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scraped, grinded, and prodded.
Reading your posts make me feel like that wasn’t all that bad...
Yeah, well likewise. I'm sorry that the team pretty much went the exact opposite of what you said it would do so adamantly for the past 4 months.
Don't be sorry. What i wanted and what I thought they would do are two different things. Whats most important is that you were right and the Giants are so much better off because of it here on May 3rd.
Bullsh-t. It played out exactly how Fatman said it did.
Whatever you have to do to protect your ego, I guess.
My stance is the same. I just don't go on hissy-fits like some of you on every single thread, and then portray that it is all the fault of the "other guys".
you need to take a down a few notches...
There is a side that keeps saying that Eli is finished and that his mere presence of the roster is an albatross that hurts us from signing players and building a team, which leads to a position that not drafting a QB (high) is a fatal error. We can leave the Mara conspiracy theories aside even.
There isn't a side saying Eli Manning is great and carrying the team.
The other side is basically refuting the bullshit from the first side. And for that, they are called Eli apologists, cultists, etc.
There is only one extreme position taken. The other position is basically to call out morons for wild conspiracies and for incessently using the term "Jints Central"
Man I hear you...I really do. But i don't agree. Mostly because you keep portraying this other extreme side is like hundreds of guys, and its not. There are plenty of people that disagree with idea of "keep putting Eli out there" but they aren't saying the contra is 100% wrong...
Only a child or troll thinks that way. Logical nyg fans that have paid attention to the nfl for long enough would recognize Eli, flaws and all, for what he was, is and will be— a gamer. The guy is a gamer only an idiot would question what this guy can do, again, flaws and all.
Some of you think too hard or not enough.
he would have totally ended up on another team
but there is no way on earth any team would have paid him
$22,200,000
and here lies the problem
What? You wanna bet???
Oh my, you need medication...
The team had their pick of QBs, who they have acknowledged they liked, and are in excellent position to develop the QB of their choosing without having to rush him into action. The will never be in similar position of having their choice of QBs in the foreseeable future. What is there right now in terms of successors remains a question, as acknowledged by the team.
Look, we can disagree on things. But this position here is not outlandish by any stretch. It is not heresy to question decision given the performance these past two seasons.
We are all just going to have to see how this plays out. Anyone thinking they know the answer doesn't. None of us can see the future.
Heck, there are two posters on this thread who think Shurmur, and DG were hired for the main purpose of ushering Eli to retirement in a couple of years because a new QB wasn't ever an option.
It isn't reasonable takes being debated - it is guys like Les who keeps calling people "fanboys" for some ridiculous reason, or bw who keeps referring to "Jints Central" as an incompetent, but dictatorial monolith, both calling all the shots and bungling them too.
The team had their pick of QBs, who they have acknowledged they liked, and are in excellent position to develop the QB of their choosing without having to rush him into action. The will never be in similar position of having their choice of QBs in the foreseeable future. What is there right now in terms of successors remains a question, as acknowledged by the team.
Look, we can disagree on things. But this position here is not outlandish by any stretch. It is not heresy to question decision given the performance these past two seasons.
We are all just going to have to see how this plays out. Anyone thinking they know the answer doesn't. None of us can see the future.
Heck, there are two posters on this thread who think Shurmur, and DG were hired for the main purpose of ushering Eli to retirement in a couple of years because a new QB wasn't ever an option.
It isn't reasonable takes being debated - it is guys like Les who keeps calling people "fanboys" for some ridiculous reason, or bw who keeps referring to "Jints Central" as an incompetent, but dictatorial monolith, both calling all the shots and bungling them too.
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was the correct way to go. Many teams in this situation would gone that route. We have an aging QB returning from a 3 win season who has not performed close to a probowl level in a few years and the offense has struggled. Even if we accept that he still has it despite the performance due to a lack of talent around him, we have to acknowledge that no one, not DG not PS, no one, can say with certainty that a drop-off isn't going to hit this year. Or next. What we can say with certainty is that it will happen, and it is not very long away. Aging is an undeniable fact of life.
The team had their pick of QBs, who they have acknowledged they liked, and are in excellent position to develop the QB of their choosing without having to rush him into action. The will never be in similar position of having their choice of QBs in the foreseeable future. What is there right now in terms of successors remains a question, as acknowledged by the team.
Look, we can disagree on things. But this position here is not outlandish by any stretch. It is not heresy to question decision given the performance these past two seasons.
We are all just going to have to see how this plays out. Anyone thinking they know the answer doesn't. None of us can see the future.
IMO, while it's not unreasonable to have the opinion that the QB was the correct way to go, it *is* unreasonable, a week later, not to stfu, move on, and get behind the pick, player, and team. More than unreasonable, it's just plain unhealthy.
You can continue to ignore or twist what people are saying, you've been doing it for months.
The problem wasn't in the reasoning, it was the delivery. You were adamant about what was going to happen, and dismissed everybody that didn't share that view as foolish.
The team had their pick of QBs, who they have acknowledged they liked, and are in excellent position to develop the QB of their choosing without having to rush him into action. The will never be in similar position of having their choice of QBs in the foreseeable future. What is there right now in terms of successors remains a question, as acknowledged by the team.
Look, we can disagree on things. But this position here is not outlandish by any stretch. It is not heresy to question decision given the performance these past two seasons.
We are all just going to have to see how this plays out. Anyone thinking they know the answer doesn't. None of us can see the future.
I pretty much agree with this post, except for the part in bold and I'll get to that in a sec.
Although I'll admit to being a 'Get Barkley' guy throughout the off-season (for the most part anyway), I totally get and understood those that were arguing that getting a QB at #2 was the way to go based on Eli's recent play. Not once did I think that someone who was adamant about selecting a QB at #2 was weird, crazy, or even wrong for feeling that way because I could see the logic behind it. I think where guys like Fats and Britt are coming from is that there was a very vocal faction of BBIers who were of the opinion of it's QB at #2 or bust and anyone who didn't agree (including the Giants) were idiots. To me that's a very arrogant (for lack of a better word) stance to take. As has been said there are plenty of ways to build a winning team for both now and the future and it seemed like some either aren't aware of that fact... or are aware of it but choose to ignore it because they think they know what's best. USUALLY (not always, see Uber's post above) these folks include the following sentence (or something like it) in their post:
'This is a once in a lifetime opportunity because we will never be picking this high again!'
Which brings me to the bolded sentence in Uber's post. Every time I've read that from someone I've winced because it's like your suggesting that there's some unwritten NFL rule that states the Giants are to never pick below pick number 8 in any given draft except for every 20-25 years. We all know no such rule exists, yet the sentence I said above has been repeated over and over throughout the off-season and I've yet to understand why. We've been fortunate to not have had to see too many season where the previous team was so bad that we were picking in the Top 5... let alone 2 or 3... in a draft and we can all HOPE that it never happens again (unless of course we need a QB lol) but hope don't pay the bills or ensure it won't happen again.
What's funny is that a lot of the same people who are saying Eli sucks now... and the team HAD to go QB at #2 because Eli now sucks... and are also saying a QB HAD to be the pick at #2 in order to get a 'franchise guy' (as if picking that high automatically makes one a franchise-caliber QB)... don't seem to be putting two and two together because if Eli sucks as much as most of them seem to think he does... then you can be damn sure we'll probably be picking AT LEAST Top 5 again next year.
So what are you trippin for?
Instead, what does Mara do? He dials Ernie, the man who drafted Eli, who quickly recommends Gettleman, who was with Ernie when Eli was drafted, who then hires Shurmur, who very quickly comes out to say he thinks Eli has plenty of gas in the tank, and suddenly Eli is, again, the future.
So much for the interest, as Mara highly suggested, that they were all in on a massive evaluation of the current crop of college QBs...
To not find that series of actions remotely questionable is strange to me.
Which brings me to why I was disappointed in taking a RB. It was just a short sighted move in the best interest of Eli, and not the long term interest of the team.
I have been - and have said so - that I was okay with Eli being the QB as the stop gap as long as we took advantage of this rare - well, hopefully rare at #2 - to draft a QB. A QB from a very deep, talented QB pool.
But since that was never going to be the case, because Jints Central decided to do this hard pivot back to Eli, I think we may have missed a tremendous opportunity to find his best replacement...
I straddle the fence on that because I can definitely see where you're coming from... but at the same time they DID interview a few guys (one or two to be exact) that weren't part of or had ties to the Giants already (Louis Riddick immediately comes to mind). But I can't help but agree with you in that I didn't think the team did as extensive a search as they probably could've (or should've?). I actually was someone who was very excited at the beginning of the off-season because I saw this as a chance... for the first time in my lifetime... for the team to go in a COMPLETELY new direction with having to change the Coach AND GM. Alas... I was a little disappointed as well that they settled on a guy with strong Giants ties.
But that said... I mean... the team has 4 Super Bowl trophies in the case... which is more than what, 60- 75% of the teams in the league? So maybe there's nothing wrong with continuing to do things the 'Giants Way'?[/quote]
I don't see how Mara saying that they had a strong interest in evaluating all the QBs coming out in this draft had to mean that they were going to take one of those guys? Maybe it's BECAUSE they took such a strong interest... and scouted them extensively... that they felt none of them was worth passing up a player of Barkley's caliber?
AND the fact that ONE team (the Jets) actually traded up into the Top 5 picks for one... instead of waiting for over half of the top 5 to drop to them (or at least closer to them where they could more comfortably trade up for one (see Allen and Rosen)... would seem to suggest that maybe more teams around the league weren't as mesmerized by the QBs coming out as some fans. All I kept hearing from those that wanted to draft a QB at #2 or else was 'See! IF none of the QBs are any good, why is everyone trying to trade into the top 5 for one?!'. Then after the draft Gettlemen comes out and says he barely got any serious offers and so far the only team we've heard that MAYBE had a real interest in trading up for one was the Pats.
I said it yesterday and I'll say it again today... the draft is about accumulating the best available talent on your roster. Judging by where the QBs wound up getting picked... it appears that this group of QBs wasn't anywhere NEAR as highly though of as most fans thought they were. Thus... I feel it can be assumed that Barkley was so far as away the better player than anyone else in the draft... particularly the QBs... that it would've been foolish to pass on him for a guy who may not be as good as he is relatively speaking. It now appears that Mayfield (and maybe Darnold) were the only two that were close and both came with their fair share of questions marks... meanwhile a player who checked (and in some cases DOUBLE checked) every single box for RB that he could possibly check and was universally thought of as the best player in the draft fell into our laps.
I've covered your next sentence earlier and all I'll say is that I think some are putting waaaaay too much... energy... into the thinking that the Giants made the wrong move. Had the Giants picked a QB (especially if that QB was Rosen for me)... I'd have been a little disappointed but would've gotten over it and just rooted for the guy we did select and hope for the best. But some of you are acting like Thanos and if they had the ability would use the Infinity Gauntlet to go back in time and change the pick if they could... damn whatever consequences happen!
We picked Barkley and not a QB. Get over it and root for the kid why don't ya?
They hired a guy who has had success wherever he's been, as a scout, as a director of player evaluation and as a GM. I never really care how exhaustive of a process it is.
Heck, the Bills didn't do a massive GM search, they hired Gettleman's assistant GM and made the playoffs for the first time since quite a few people on BBI had been born.
Gettleman has been on teams who have gone to 9 SB's. He got the Panthers out of the cap hell Marty Hurney put them in (and is putting them back in), got to a SB with them, and was fired for standing up to ownership, which puts a damper on the ridiculous idea he's a puppet for Mara.
I half believe people keep talking about the hiring process because they can't find a whole lot to dislike about Gettleman but have to bitch about something.
Wouldn't fit the fucking moronic Jints Central depiction otherwise.
And yes, a franchise QB could be found almost anywhere if you use enough history and are lucky enough. But logic again will tell you that it is best to at least give yourself the best chance/options to find one. And its tough to beat the #2 pick if that is the case. It is also expensive to purchase that option if we have to in the near future.
But maybe we will be lucky...
They hired a guy who has had success wherever he's been, as a scout, as a director of player evaluation and as a GM. I never really care how exhaustive of a process it is.
Heck, the Bills didn't do a massive GM search, they hired Gettleman's assistant GM and made the playoffs for the first time since quite a few people on BBI had been born.
Gettleman has been on teams who have gone to 9 SB's. He got the Panthers out of the cap hell Marty Hurney put them in (and is putting them back in), got to a SB with them, and was fired for standing up to ownership, which puts a damper on the ridiculous idea he's a puppet for Mara.
I half believe people keep talking about the hiring process because they can't find a whole lot to dislike about Gettleman but have to bitch about something.
Wouldn't fit the fucking moronic Jints Central depiction otherwise.
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was the correct way to go. Many teams in this situation would gone that route. We have an aging QB returning from a 3 win season who has not performed close to a probowl level in a few years and the offense has struggled. Even if we accept that he still has it despite the performance due to a lack of talent around him, we have to acknowledge that no one, not DG not PS, no one, can say with certainty that a drop-off isn't going to hit this year. Or next. What we can say with certainty is that it will happen, and it is not very long away. Aging is an undeniable fact of life.
The team had their pick of QBs, who they have acknowledged they liked, and are in excellent position to develop the QB of their choosing without having to rush him into action. The will never be in similar position of having their choice of QBs in the foreseeable future. What is there right now in terms of successors remains a question, as acknowledged by the team.
Look, we can disagree on things. But this position here is not outlandish by any stretch. It is not heresy to question decision given the performance these past two seasons.
We are all just going to have to see how this plays out. Anyone thinking they know the answer doesn't. None of us can see the future.
IMO, while it's not unreasonable to have the opinion that the QB was the correct way to go, it *is* unreasonable, a week later, not to stfu, move on, and get behind the pick, player, and team. More than unreasonable, it's just plain unhealthy.
Perhaps. But while we're on the topic of unhealthy --you seem awfully heated about this...
How many of us expected to be picking #2 after the 2016 season when we made the playoffs? And that was WITH Eli playing all but one game. A HUGE part (at least for me) of what made last season so disappointing was how it seemed to come out of nowhere that we'd be as bad as we were. Yeah the offense wasn't a juggernaut the year before... and losing a lot of players to injury (including 90% of the WR corp) played a big part... but still, I'm still in a little bit of shock at how a team could go from 11-5 to 3-13 with basically the same cast (and with what was believed to be improvements in many places where the team was lacking such as #2 WR, TE and S. So yeah... the likelyhood of the team not picking in the top 5 is probably pretty unlikely... but I'm not falling for THAT banana in the tailpipe ever again. If I wasn't before, I am NOW a true believer that every season is COMPLETELY different from one to the next in today's NFL. Not sure I believed that as much before this past season.
But maybe we will be lucky...
But again... it appears the team (and a majority of the league... see my earlier post where I talk about this) didn't think there was a QB who had a chance to become a good enough player at the QB position to pass up a player of Barkley's caliber. If Barkley was Elliot or Gurley.... maybe they would've selected a QB over them. But Barkley has been viewed as better than even THEM by almost EVERYONE. To me that says a lot. The QB would've had to be on the level of a Carson Wentz AT LEAST (nevermind the Peyton or Luck level) in order for them to bypass Barkley as a prospect. Just my opinion.
Yeah well... I wasn't expecting one after an 11-5 season... where the team made what was believed to be significant upgrades to areas of weakness like TE (and TE2 for that matter), Safety and even RB... were you?
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I can't speak for others, but for my part... perhaps I'm just more optimistic than you. I'm not expecting another top 5 pick anytime soon.
Yeah well... I wasn't expecting one after an 11-5 season... where the team made what was believed to be significant upgrades to areas of weakness like TE (and TE2 for that matter), Safety and even RB... were you?
Also, I am not debating how good Barkley will be... I assume he will be superb which will only improve our record, and lower our chances to get to #2. Glad he is on the squad, but I would have gone QB.
I don't know if Darnold, Rosen or one of the others will be really good. But if they are, i at least hope Eli rebounds or Webb/Lauletta are good because we could be in deep shit...
I actually was someone who was very excited at the beginning of the off-season because I saw this as a chance... for the first time in my lifetime... for the team to go in a COMPLETELY new direction with having to change the Coach AND GM. Alas... I was a little disappointed as well that they settled on a guy with strong Giants ties.
That's where I was. Let's get out of this "Giants Way" box, break that mold, and move in a fresher direction. Let's try to break this long era of - several years of mediocrity, a year that pops, a pull back, maybe another good year, another ordinary period, repeat.
I got the impression early, once the house cleaning was executed, that's exactly where Mara was going, too. But the lure of comfort is just habit for him. It takes a real disciple to change that. I see that in the business world all the time.
I like Barkley. I follow the high school game pretty closely and was excited when Penn State got him (being a lifelong PSU fan). He's a real good player. And my guess is he should have a lost "bust factor". Most of his game should convey nicely to the pros.
But I am a full subscriber to the position that the RB position has been commoditized and these guys grow on the RB trees found in a RB orchard near you. So there is no need to load up big, long-term, guaranteed cap money on them. Use the cap dollars for oline, dline, QB, and corners.
I know some say that the landscape is changing, and that the high profile RB is back. But the multi-back system continues to dominate more. So we'll see how it plays out with these feature backs like Gurley, Zeke, Barkley.
This was THE absolute best year in a long time to hedge and take RB later in the draft. This RB draft class was loaded.
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In comment 13952811 UberAlias said:
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I can't speak for others, but for my part... perhaps I'm just more optimistic than you. I'm not expecting another top 5 pick anytime soon.
Yeah well... I wasn't expecting one after an 11-5 season... where the team made what was believed to be significant upgrades to areas of weakness like TE (and TE2 for that matter), Safety and even RB... were you?
I wasn't either, but for starters, it has been a while since NYG was in that position, but more importantly, if you were running the show, what's the expectation you're operating off of? The assumption is that you are expecting to improve and should plan accordingly. If you are assuming the alternative, well I'm not sure what to tell you, other then that just might be a self-fulfilling prophecy and it's not likely to matter much what you do.
Yes it has... and hopefully it will continue to take a few decades between top 5 picks (with 4 Super Bowl wins mixed in lol). But hope and expectations mean nothing in the grand scheme of things buddy. I learned a valuable lesson after last season and that's to not 'expect' anything based on what happened the year before or the off-season. I've never had a more depressing season than last season (and the Giants season was only part of it) and I hope to never experience it again.
Also, I am not debating how good Barkley will be... I assume he will be superb which will only improve our record, and lower our chances to get to #2. Glad he is on the squad, but I would have gone QB.
I don't know if Darnold, Rosen or one of the others will be really good. But if they are, i at least hope Eli rebounds or Webb/Lauletta are good because we could be in deep shit...
Yeah... it's easy to say NOW they weren't all that good of an 11-5 team... but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't thinking of AT LEAST a playoff bound... if not Super Bowl... season after that season. I agree with you about the fatal flaws on the O-line (and Reese not at least having a backup plan there is why I had absolutely not problem with him being fired) but the defense was #2 in the league the year before and added guys returning from injuries (like FS D. Thompson) or were hopeful of playing better than the year before (like JPP and his hand) and it was the D that was most disappointing. Here's to hoping that we won't NEED to get to the #2 pick in next year's draft because Eli is lighting it up and either Webb or Lauletta (I need to learn how to spell his name!)... or BOTH... have shown some good stuff in mop up duty and pre-season.
Again, I don't have a big issue with those that say they would've gone QB because I could see the logic behind it. What I do have a big issue with is the notion that anyone that didn't think taking a QB at #2 was/is an idiot.
Also, I am not debating how good Barkley will be... I assume he will be superb which will only improve our record, and lower our chances to get to #2. Glad he is on the squad, but I would have gone QB.
I don't know if Darnold, Rosen or one of the others will be really good. But if they are, i at least hope Eli rebounds or Webb/Lauletta are good because we could be in deep shit...
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I actually was someone who was very excited at the beginning of the off-season because I saw this as a chance... for the first time in my lifetime... for the team to go in a COMPLETELY new direction with having to change the Coach AND GM. Alas... I was a little disappointed as well that they settled on a guy with strong Giants ties.
That's where I was. Let's get out of this "Giants Way" box, break that mold, and move in a fresher direction. Let's try to break this long era of - several years of mediocrity, a year that pops, a pull back, maybe another good year, another ordinary period, repeat.
I got the impression early, once the house cleaning was executed, that's exactly where Mara was going, too. But the lure of comfort is just habit for him. It takes a real disciple to change that. I see that in the business world all the time.
I like Barkley. I follow the high school game pretty closely and was excited when Penn State got him (being a lifelong PSU fan). He's a real good player. And my guess is he should have a lost "bust factor". Most of his game should convey nicely to the pros.
But I am a full subscriber to the position that the RB position has been commoditized and these guys grow on the RB trees found in a RB orchard near you. So there is no need to load up big, long-term, guaranteed cap money on them. Use the cap dollars for oline, dline, QB, and corners.
I know some say that the landscape is changing, and that the high profile RB is back. But the multi-back system continues to dominate more. So we'll see how it plays out with these feature backs like Gurley, Zeke, Barkley.
This was THE absolute best year in a long time to hedge and take RB later in the draft. This RB draft class was loaded.
Again beedub... I'm probably A LOT closer to the way you were/are thinking than we both think. BUT... as I said to Googs... where I happen to disagree big time is the notion that them NOT picking a QB there was the absolute wrong move that the team will regret for the next 15 years. IF Darnold, Rosen, Allen or even Jackson become upper echelon QBs... and the Giants are looking for a QB and are suffering through mediocrity for years to come... then you have every right to puff your chest out and say 'I told you so!'. But I don't believe that not taking a QB there... and taking the best, cleanest prospect (who happened to fill a position of need... unlike the LT pick in '81) to be available to the team since that '81 draft can automatically be classified as the 'wrong' move.
As has been said... I don't even look at Barkley as just a running back. He's so much more than that... and this is just as a rookie. What's he going to be in 2 or 3 years when he REALLY starts to understand the pro game? To think that he probably hasn't even hit close to his ceiling yet is what excites me the most about this kid... and he seems to really, REALLY want to get to that level.
This was THE absolute best year in a long time to hedge and take RB later in the draft. This RB draft class was loaded.
I was arguing with someone last Saturday - it kills me that I can't remember who - about this.
I said QB/Nick Chubb/Geno Christian was the better package than the actual combination of Barkley/Hernandez/Carter. Then we changed out Carter for Lauelleta.
Still get a terrific RB (Chubb) and outstanding OL (Christian)...and the QB > Barkley...
I think the ground game is very important, just on the cheap.
The choice wasn't Eli or Webb, it was Eli or Geno. That's why so many people were pissed, confused, in shock, etc.
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The most likely scenario would have been that we had the same draft that we got, except swapping Darnold for Barkley. In fact, once you got to round 3, I think you would have had a hard time saying that we would would get was appreciably better than what we have. And that ain't much. It really is the philosophical difference of whether or not a ground game is very important at all.
I was arguing with someone last Saturday - it kills me that I can't remember who - about this.
I said QB/Nick Chubb/Geno Christian was the better package than the actual combination of Barkley/Hernandez/Carter. Then we changed out Carter for Lauelleta.
Still get a terrific RB (Chubb) and outstanding OL (Christian)...and the QB > Barkley...
I think the ground game is very important, just on the cheap.
If that happened I doubt they would of even picked a RB. RB wasn't such a need that, they would of passed on other players to take one later like that. I think the only reason they went RB that high was because of who he was.
Well there you have it - it's been declared.
All of the RBs AFTER Barkley were only incrementally better.
Does that mean you think Gallman is great, so we have another great back. Or Gallman is average, so we have another average back? Don't answer - just being a wise ass...I know your answer. ;)
That hated word “generational”is actually applicable. And 3rd down back in s 3rd down back.
There's been plenty of reason to question the things this team does.