According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, there are "far more" teams not willing to pay free agent Dez Bryant at the league minimum than there are teams that would even sign Bryant to any contract.
Bryant has been on the open market for close to three weeks now, and that market has been pretty icy. Only the Ravens have been known to offer him a deal, one that was reportedly a three-year, $21 million pact that Bryant turned down before the Ravens then moved on to Willie Snead. Per Schefter, the NFC East isn't at all interested in Bryant. It's difficult to even find a suitor.
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I disagree...and it looks like we may find out who's right!
Engram got 115 last year. At least 100 seems good with Beckham. Probably wouldn't mind seeing Barkley and Shepard get around that as well.
I don't mind giving Lewis, Lattimer and Ellison something like 30 each.
That's all the targets.
Last thing you need is a receiver like Dez that might not deserve more targets clamoring for them.
We have no WR depth behind OBJ. Without him we go back to exactly what we were last year at WR.
This team still has so many holes it’s unbelievable, but we got a few pieces on the line and a shinny new RB. We are unstoppable. Sarcasm off.
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We have no WR depth behind OBJ. Without him we go back to exactly what we were last year at WR.
This team still has so many holes it’s unbelievable, but we got a few pieces on the line and a shinny new RB. We are unstoppable. Sarcasm off.
I'm sorry but that's just the nature of football in the salary cap era. Very hard to have talent underneath a star. Pats seem to be the exception as well as teams with great QBs on their rookie deal like Philly this year or Seattle for many years.
Even with their line the Cowboys were a different team without Zeke.
Don't think the Steelers would look very good without Antonio Brown or the Falcons without Julio. (and the Steelers have great WR depth)
They're right - and that's why he was released.
The WR's DAL has are awful. Terrance Williams, Cole Beasley, Brice Butler, Tavon Austin...
If Dez could still play at a high level, he'd still be there.
It was trendy to blame Prescott for his struggles, but Dak isn't his problem nearly as much as his own body is.
We can get similar production out of a younger guy without the same history of being a prick.
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someone from Dallas FO mention that he couldnt win one on ones anymore and his release was performance based. Id assume the NFC East is particularly well aware of that fact. I say dont sign him for a nickel
They're right - and that's why he was released.
The WR's DAL has are awful. Terrance Williams, Cole Beasley, Brice Butler, Tavon Austin...
If Dez could still play at a high level, he'd still be there.
It was trendy to blame Prescott for his struggles, but Dak isn't his problem nearly as much as his own body is.
We can get similar production out of a younger guy without the same history of being a prick.
Funny you say that about Cole Beasley...we couldn't cover him if he was running in loafers.
I think Engram will get plenty of burn outside with Ellison inline and Shep in the slot. And Greg is right, Shepard is a slot receiver and would be miscast outside.
Engram absolutely can play out there, along with Latimer or Lewis or whoever wins the competition. We only need that guy to be a 4th option...you don't need Calvin Johnson out there.
should say "there were many off-field ones too...chief among them..."
Just doesn't seem like a third wide receiver is a big focal point in what he likes to run offensively.
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In comment 13951445 sharpshooter66 said:
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someone from Dallas FO mention that he couldnt win one on ones anymore and his release was performance based. Id assume the NFC East is particularly well aware of that fact. I say dont sign him for a nickel
They're right - and that's why he was released.
The WR's DAL has are awful. Terrance Williams, Cole Beasley, Brice Butler, Tavon Austin...
If Dez could still play at a high level, he'd still be there.
It was trendy to blame Prescott for his struggles, but Dak isn't his problem nearly as much as his own body is.
We can get similar production out of a younger guy without the same history of being a prick.
Funny you say that about Cole Beasley...we couldn't cover him if he was running in loafers.
I think Engram will get plenty of burn outside with Ellison inline and Shep in the slot. And Greg is right, Shepard is a slot receiver and would be miscast outside.
Engram absolutely can play out there, along with Latimer or Lewis or whoever wins the competition. We only need that guy to be a 4th option...you don't need Calvin Johnson out there.
LOL, yeah I think that's more of a Giants problem than anything else. Beasley isn't terrible - he's just limited. He's very small, he can't beat physical corners on the outside and has to make his living inside.
He really wasn't much of a factor last year. Just 36 catches for under 400 yards in 15 games. A paltry 8.7 YPR and 57.1% catch rate.
Roger Lewis basically gave us the same production Beasley gave Dallas last season.
The play where he bobbled the ball and somehow pinned it to his helmet and caught it down the sideline on that 3rd down in the opener last year was the epitome of Cole Beasley So fucking annoying.
The offense has options, as you mentioned. Beckham, Barkley, Engram, Shepard,+.
Even with all of them, with a legit #2 they'd be even better.
At least in theory, and I believe it to be true.
Plus, let's say the Giants are in playoff contention, Beckham has been injured before, would you want the season to be over if Beckham gets hurt? You obviously can't plan for all injuries, but WR depth has to be a concern.
Doesn't need to be Dez, but at vet min, I'd have a hard time passing him up. I can't see him being worse than Marshall last year.
The market talks.
He's a shell of himself and he's an asshole. No wonder no one wants to sign him. Consider me stunned.
I have been right there next to you saying the same thing. I dont want this guy anywhere near our locker room.
interesting receiver
Dez would be a great non-signing.
Agree, no brainer.
+1
That "#2 WR" in this offense is actually the 5th option. Lattimer is a special teams stud with upside, give him a shot there, it's a smaller role and he's probably got some untapped potential. At the same time, you can expand Shephard and Engrams role a little outside as a hedge and give yourself some formation versatility. We're good there.
The biggest argument is that our best formation is 12 personnel using Ellison, especially with Barkley in the fold. You can either run it down their throat or even better, start to get really creative. Think about...OBJ is OBJ and can play just about any position at WR, you can move him around to find the best matchup; Engram can start out inline or play slot or X or backfield, another matchup nightmare; Ellison is your inline blocker or he motions to FB; Shep to this point has been slot but you can work him on the perimeter much more than McAdoo's myopic brain tried; and Barkley is the perfect wildcard out of the backfield, you can even motion him outside or in the slot...once again, matchup nightmare. That personnel grouping can look like anything you want it to look like, from a 2 TE bunch formation to a spread 4-5 WR look. That offense can be scary.
Dez would be a great non-signing.
And not signing Marshall last season would have also qualified. I hope the team learned that signing a has been based on his name is not the way to go.
I think the Giants are fine at WR. Engram can be used as both tight end and wide out with Ellison handling the strong side blocking. Shep is fine in the slot. Lewis and Lattimore are fine as backups... As long as OBJ stays healthy, we are good at WR. We will probably have some shots at additional low cost / high quality depth during the cuts to 53...
But alas, too much bad stuff for just a few touchdowns.
pass...
I think the Giants are fine at WR. Engram can be used as both tight end and wide out with Ellison handling the strong side blocking. Shep is fine in the slot. Lewis and Lattimore are fine as backups... As long as OBJ stays healthy, we are good at WR. We will probably have some shots at additional low cost / high quality depth during the cuts to 53...
An immobile QB absolutely needs a big physical receiver who can fight for a pass, Stafford to Megatron being a prime example. It's the final read in many situations. Brady_Gronk, Ryan-Jones, and Palmer-Fitz.
Nicks, although not ideal hdight, had a good combo of athleticism and strength to be an X receiver who can make the contested catch.
Hopefully Engram can be the guy.
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To a 1 year, minimum contract. Absolutely
Agree, no brainer.
It is absolutely NOT a no brainer to sign a washed-up diva. We don't need a 3rd or 4th best target yelling at Eli to throw him the ball... even if he's well covered (because he can't get separation) - resulting in either an INT or at best an incompletion.
My sense, without being too much of a douche, is someone wrote it and others repeated it as true.
Per NFL's NextGen stats, in 2017 he averaged 2.4 yards of separation per target, more than Julio Jones or TY Hilton (to name a couple).
The locker room or attitude excuses hold more weight than "he can't get separation". I read the same thing on here routinely leading up to the 2014 draft about Mike Evans from the BBI experts. Good call.
Is Dez the same Dez from 2012 - 2014? No, obviously not.
Is he an elite WR in 2018? No. He's not.
But from an on-field standpoint, he's a great fit for the Giants.
Linked below are some of his 2017 highlights (NSFW due to background music language).
At a vet min deal, yes it would be a no-brainer to sign him. He can be released with no pain if the locker room suffers.
Dez 2017 - ( New Window )
As arc said, he's a shell of himself and he's an asshole.
The asshole part is probably true.
But I don't give a shit if the whole team is loaded with assholes.
locker room shit is overrated. When you win the locker room is great, when you lose it's not. 2016 DRC was great, so was Apple, all of a sudden losing creeps in and these guys have to be suspended.
and shell of himself might be true too because of how high that bar was sent from his peak.
but when the #2 WR is a special teams player (who is probably a down grade from Dwayne Harris as a WR), or an unknown I'd take a chance on a player like Dez for the vet min.
And I also believe Schefter is wrong. I mean it's not like this guy doesn't sling shit.
It's public Dez turns down $7M per season from the Ravens (I haven't seen guarantees), so after that no one even would pay him 900,000 non-guaranteed until he makes the roster?
I'm skeptical.
DO NOT WANT HIM. And it appears I'm not alone.
Dez 2017 highlights - ( New Window )
Watch the video.
And your opinion is your opinion, mine is mine.
I'm comfortable if many people share yours and no one shares mine.
bottom line is I doubt the Giants will sign him regardless of your and my opinions.
My sense, without being too much of a douche, is someone wrote it and others repeated it as true.
Per NFL's NextGen stats, in 2017 he averaged 2.4 yards of separation per target, more than Julio Jones or TY Hilton (to name a couple).
Interesting. Where did you see these stats? I watched a lot of Cowboys games last year, stuck with Dez on my fantasy team.. and he only seemed to get separation on short range routes (so, a possession receiver without the footwork)... but this is interesting if true.
I just find it hard to believe Carolina and Chicago have no interest. This report could be teams talking down his market value - if he turned down $21mil from Baltimore (who knows how much guaranteed), its entirely possible there is merely a separation of market value at the moment.
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"separation" means.
My sense, without being too much of a douche, is someone wrote it and others repeated it as true.
Per NFL's NextGen stats, in 2017 he averaged 2.4 yards of separation per target, more than Julio Jones or TY Hilton (to name a couple).
Interesting. Where did you see these stats? I watched a lot of Cowboys games last year, stuck with Dez on my fantasy team.. and he only seemed to get separation on short range routes (so, a possession receiver without the footwork)... but this is interesting if true.
I just find it hard to believe Carolina and Chicago have no interest. This report could be teams talking down his market value - if he turned down $21mil from Baltimore (who knows how much guaranteed), its entirely possible there is merely a separation of market value at the moment.
Agree, I think he's probably waiting out the market and will eventually sign somewhere - probably for more than league min.
stats are linked below, the quote came from a different site.
NFL nextgen stats - ( New Window )
And if you're going to compare him to Julio Jones (who had the same separation according to your link), the stat that stands out to me is that Julio was only targeted 16 more times than Dez and yet had 19 more receptions and 600 more yards.
Of the receivers targeted more than 130 times, Dez had by far the fewest yards and lowest catch% (along w Mike Evans).
So, do we want a possession receiver who drops a lot of balls (and has a shitty attitude)?
And I also believe Schefter is wrong. I mean it's not like this guy doesn't sling shit.
It's public Dez turns down $7M per season from the Ravens (I haven't seen guarantees), so after that no one even would pay him 900,000 non-guaranteed until he makes the roster?
I'm skeptical.
I was thinking the same thing. "Not interested" is not the the same thing as "wouldn't sign him for the league minimum"
And if you're going to compare him to Julio Jones (who had the same separation according to your link), the stat that stands out to me is that Julio was only targeted 16 more times than Dez and yet had 19 more receptions and 600 more yards.
Of the receivers targeted more than 130 times, Dez had by far the fewest yards and lowest catch% (along w Mike Evans).
So, do we want a possession receiver who drops a lot of balls (and has a shitty attitude)?
All true. But QB play and o-line protection also play a big part - the longer the QB has to throw, the more separation I would expect a receiver to be able to get. Gronk is low on that list, one of the factors is that Brady gets rid of the ball so quickly.
I also don't know what to make of a list where Albert Wilson is #1 in the league. Common sense is he's just not that good. In general, I don't see much linkage between leaders on that separation stat... and overall production levels, right?
What is interesting is that 3 Chiefs receivers were near the top of that list... and Alex Smith still wasn't able to have a great passing season (he certainly generated a lot with his legs though). Skins may end up massively disappointed.
Bottom line, i just think with Dez, the cons outweigh the pros, even at league min.
Bottom line, i just think with Dez, the cons outweigh the pros, even at league min.
IMO that's a better argument than simply making a case against his on-field production. especially with the role he'd play on the Giants.
I'm more of a root for laundry guy, if someone isn't suspended by the league he can play for my team.
And like I said, I feel like locker room "stuff" comes with winning.
I remember when Strahan was a media enemy and viewed by some as a cancer in the locker room, he could be the poster child for how winning can turn an image into a massive career rebirth.
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In comment 13951445 sharpshooter66 said:
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someone from Dallas FO mention that he couldnt win one on ones anymore and his release was performance based. Id assume the NFC East is particularly well aware of that fact. I say dont sign him for a nickel
They're right - and that's why he was released.
The WR's DAL has are awful. Terrance Williams, Cole Beasley, Brice Butler, Tavon Austin...
If Dez could still play at a high level, he'd still be there.
It was trendy to blame Prescott for his struggles, but Dak isn't his problem nearly as much as his own body is.
We can get similar production out of a younger guy without the same history of being a prick.
Funny you say that about Cole Beasley...we couldn't cover him if he was running in loafers.
I think Engram will get plenty of burn outside with Ellison inline and Shep in the slot. And Greg is right, Shepard is a slot receiver and would be miscast outside.
Engram absolutely can play out there, along with Latimer or Lewis or whoever wins the competition. We only need that guy to be a 4th option...you don't need Calvin Johnson out there.
Beasley's unstoppable:
2016 game 1: 8 rec, 12 tgts, 65 yds, 5.42 y/tgt
2016 game 2: 4 rec, 7 tgts, 41 yds, 5.86 y/tgt
2016 Totals: 12 rec, 19 tgts, 106 yds, 5.58 y/tgt
2017 game 1: 3 rec, 5 tgts, 32 yds, 6.4 y/tgt
2017 game 2: 3 rec, 5 tgts, 59 yds, 11.8 y/tgt
2017 Totals: 6 rec, 10 tgts, 91 yds, 9.1 y/tgt
And his per game averages:
4.5 rec, 7.25 tgts, 49.25 yds, 6.79 y/t
You'll notice that TDs aren't listed. I didn't omit them to make an argument, he hasn't scored against the Giants in 4 games.
In short, Beasley doesn't catch a ton of passes and when he does he does little with the ball.
When you're talking about fractions of yards, I would say yes, without a doubt. In other words, the stat isn't worth much.
Let's compare him with Brandon Marshall (who's much closer to a HOFer). Last year, Marshall was closer to his last great season than Dez is now.
Marshall was only one year removed from a great season ('15), whereas Dez's last elite season was '14.
To paraphrase Jets LB
Couldn't catch a cold.
Let's compare him with Brandon Marshall (who's much closer to a HOFer). Last year, Marshall was closer to his last great season than Dez is now.
Marshall was only one year removed from a great season ('15), whereas Dez's last elite season was '14.
Agree wasn't comparing Strahan and Dez literally, simply the fact that losing highlights negatives and brings out the worst in everyone, and winning tends to be like a rising tide, it lifts all ships.
Other than sucking, Marshall didn't cause any issues that I'm aware of, did he?
So, if the only risk in a Dez signing is he'd suck (based on Marshall), aka be like Roger Lewis or Cody Latimer, I fail to see the hesitation.
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Strahan was a perennial pro bowler, one of the best DEs in the game (why he's obviously a HOFer). Dez hasn't been elite for 4 years (he's no where near a HOFer) and he's much more of an asshole than Strahan ever was.
Let's compare him with Brandon Marshall (who's much closer to a HOFer). Last year, Marshall was closer to his last great season than Dez is now.
Marshall was only one year removed from a great season ('15), whereas Dez's last elite season was '14.
Agree wasn't comparing Strahan and Dez literally, simply the fact that losing highlights negatives and brings out the worst in everyone, and winning tends to be like a rising tide, it lifts all ships.
Other than sucking, Marshall didn't cause any issues that I'm aware of, did he?
So, if the only risk in a Dez signing is he'd suck (based on Marshall), aka be like Roger Lewis or Cody Latimer, I fail to see the hesitation.
Pj, I think your so spot on in this thread.
Sign him to a no risk, 1 year, vet minimum contract with various guaranteed money in incentives. Trouble in training camp? See ya.
He's exactly what you need opposite Beckham.