Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Is Tiki Barber a hall of famer?

Breeze_94 : 5/2/2018 10:26 pm
Looking back on his career, it feels like he is really under appreciated. That probably has something to do with his antics/leaving the team on a bad note, but he had one of the greatest 7 year runs any RB has ever had.

He had 1400 plus yards from scrim in each of his final 7 years, and averaged over 2000 yards from scrimmage in his final 5 years, including 2390 in 2005, the 3rd best single season total of all time.

There was 4 times where he had a 200 yard game in a late season game to help propel the Giants to the playoffs. One against the Raiders week 17 of 2005. One against KC in 05' in a late season Saturday afternoon game, one against the Eagles in a win and in week 17 game in 2002, and one against the Redskins in his final regular season game in 2006 which was also a win and in game.

He is 13th all time in yards from scrimmage, the only guy not in the hall of fame that is in front of him is the still active Frank Gore. If he played one or two more seasons (and he could've because he walked away from the game at his peak) he would easily be top 5-7 of all time in yards from scrimmage.

I know his career wasn't incredibly long, but he still had one of the greatest 7 year peaks that has ever been seen from a RB. And 7 years is a pretty long time for a RB, especially when you consider he had 3-4 decent years before he became the lead back.

He may be a jerk, but I think he should be a hall of famer. One of the most underrated players of the last 25 years.
He was on his way  
Anakim : 5/2/2018 10:28 pm : link
If he had played a few more years at his level, I think he could've gotten in
Yes....  
bw in dc : 5/2/2018 10:28 pm : link
Itís time for him to be recognized for an outstanding career. A guy who struggled to find his identity, worked hard at his game, and became one of the great all-around RBs of his era.

.  
arcarsenal : 5/2/2018 10:31 pm : link
No. He would have been if he played a few more years. He literally walked away from the game at his peak. He was in the midst of some absolutely incredible seasons. But he needed a few more like that to really be a HoF'er.
RE: He was on his way  
bradshaw44 : 5/2/2018 10:32 pm : link
In comment 13951965 Anakim said:
Quote:
If he had played a few more years at his level, I think he could've gotten in


This. He needed more years under his belt.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/2/2018 10:34 pm : link
Barber was really just a 3rd down back and punt/kick returner for the first 3 seasons of his career. He did very little as a rusher.

2000 was his breakout year.

Barber had 5 elite/upper echelon seasons. The 2004-2006 stretch he was one of the best RB's in all of football - he was probably the best offensive player in the league in 2005.

But it's not enough. He needed to do that for another couple years. He won't get in with the resume he has.
Yes  
Iamhagg1 : 5/2/2018 10:35 pm : link
Top 15 in YFS. Jerome Bettis somehow made it without better numbers.
If Terrell Davis is then yes  
bubba0825 : 5/2/2018 10:37 pm : link
. Itís not even that close
Needed two more years  
section125 : 5/2/2018 10:39 pm : link
and a definite. Even 1 more with the SB and probably makes it.
More stats  
Breeze_94 : 5/2/2018 10:43 pm : link
Tiki surpassed 2000 YFS 3X in his career, and came up 16 yards short of doing it a 4th time (had 1984 YFS in 2002).

By comparison, Adrian Peterson had more than 2000 YFS just 1x in his career, and never had more than 1900 in any other season.

Ladanian Tomlinson had the same amount of 2000 + yard season as Tiki did.

Barry Sanders only surpassed 2000 YFS 2x in his career.

And as the poster above said, Terrell Davis only had a 4 year peak and still made it. Outside of the 4 years, he only had 1500 yards combined in the rest of his NFL career.
If he played the 2007 season  
arniefez : 5/2/2018 10:44 pm : link
and put up his 2006 numbers and won a Super Bowl he would have been.
RE: .  
bw in dc : 5/2/2018 10:45 pm : link
In comment 13951970 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
No. He would have been if he played a few more years. He literally walked away from the game at his peak. He was in the midst of some absolutely incredible seasons. But he needed a few more like that to really be a HoF'er.


All of Barberís best 5 years are better than Bettisí 5 years.

He was was a better all around back by a mile.

Floyd Little is in the HoF...  
bw in dc : 5/2/2018 10:46 pm : link
Barber crushes his overrated career.
We wouldnít have won the Super Bowl in 2007  
bradshaw44 : 5/2/2018 10:57 pm : link
If tiki was on the team. The team got better by addition from subtraction. Tiki gone made the coaches change strategy and play guys like Bradshaw. Another addition by subtraction came when Shockey went down. Coaches change strategy and get Boss involved. The two biggest me guys that even the coaches wanted to force the ball to because they believed they were the total offense. Turned out that letting Eli spread the ball around was the best thing for the team. Tiki being on the team would have kept Us from a lombardi, no doubt.
Tiki's Rosen-esque douchiness  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/2/2018 11:00 pm : link
Keeps him out of the HoF.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/2/2018 11:07 pm : link
In comment 13951994 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13951970 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


No. He would have been if he played a few more years. He literally walked away from the game at his peak. He was in the midst of some absolutely incredible seasons. But he needed a few more like that to really be a HoF'er.



All of Barberís best 5 years are better than Bettisí 5 years.

He was was a better all around back by a mile.


I don't even think Bettis should be a HoF'er. He ran the ball like 3500 times and was a massive dude with a bunch of pretty good OL's. Nothing about Bettis really ever impressed me. He was just a big lumbering back in a 3 yards and a cloud of dust era.

I don't think Terrell Davis belongs either.
RE: We wouldnít have won the Super Bowl in 2007  
section125 : 5/2/2018 11:09 pm : link
In comment 13952009 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
If tiki was on the team. The team got better by addition from subtraction. Tiki gone made the coaches change strategy and play guys like Bradshaw. Another addition by subtraction came when Shockey went down. Coaches change strategy and get Boss involved. The two biggest me guys that even the coaches wanted to force the ball to because they believed they were the total offense. Turned out that letting Eli spread the ball around was the best thing for the team. Tiki being on the team would have kept Us from a lombardi, no doubt.


No doubt? Who knows, but Barber was better than Jacobs or Bradshaw - period. Barber with Jacobs and Bradshaw is a pretty dynamic backfield. Don't quite get taking 1800 to 2200 yards off the field (or more because the team was better) makes it a better team.
Yeah New York Giants Hall of Fame  
Rflairr : 5/2/2018 11:17 pm : link
.
Nope  
Joey in VA : 5/2/2018 11:20 pm : link
Not even close.
RE: RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 5/2/2018 11:21 pm : link
In comment 13952017 arcarsenal said:
Quote:


I don't even think Bettis should be a HoF'er. He ran the ball like 3500 times and was a massive dude with a bunch of pretty good OL's. Nothing about Bettis really ever impressed me. He was just a big lumbering back in a 3 yards and a cloud of dust era.

I don't think Terrell Davis belongs either.


Well, thatís sort of besides the point now. They are in, and a decent comparative cases for Tiki.

The receiving aspect of Tikiís game is huge in this. You realize he had the same # of receptions as Marcus Allen? More than Walter Payton?

Heís in...
That the team turned around  
BlackLight : 5/2/2018 11:26 pm : link
and won the Super Bowl in the season after he left, hurts his HOF case, in my view.
RE: That the team turned around  
bw in dc : 5/2/2018 11:28 pm : link
In comment 13952040 BlackLight said:
Quote:
and won the Super Bowl in the season after he left, hurts his HOF case, in my view.


Did Barber play defense?
RE: RE: That the team turned around  
Joey in VA : 5/2/2018 11:48 pm : link
In comment 13952045 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13952040 BlackLight said:


Quote:


and won the Super Bowl in the season after he left, hurts his HOF case, in my view.



Did Barber play defense?
Yes, he used to wear a fat suit and fly to Tampa Bay and call himself Ronde.
Funny that you mentioned Ronde.  
bw in dc : 5/2/2018 11:57 pm : link
He has a very effective, under the radar career at corner.

47 INTs for 8 TDs, with another 12 fumble recoveries for 4 more TDs. So 16 defensive TDs. Thatís 3rd all time for a defender behind Sanders and Woodson. Good company to keep there...
RE: HOF  
jamison884 : 5/3/2018 12:07 am : link
I think three factors combine resulting in the lack of a jacket.

1. He retired early and during his prime. A significant amount of NFL HOF'ers played until the moment they simply couldn't any longer and were forced to retire the game they loved with a passion. Retiring early, fairly or unfairly, gives the impression he didn't have the same level of passion/

2. He left his team and then created controversy. Again, fairly or unfairly, this gives the impression he didn't respect his teammates or franchise.

3. The year after he left the team, the team won a SuperBowl.

I believe those three factors combine to block him out.
No chance  
KWALL2 : 5/3/2018 12:08 am : link
Only way youíll see Tiki up there is presenting his brother.
Good question!  
TC : 5/3/2018 12:14 am : link
Tiki was not even a consideration for that status until Dayne showed up, and he foolishly thought it a threat and got religion.
Nope  
AcesUp : 5/3/2018 12:27 am : link
If he stayed one more year when that OL was truly peaking and we went on our SB run? A no brainer. He would have been the focal point of that offense, had a career season behind a QB reaching his potential and probably went on to be the SB MVP. Dude botched that big time.
I think we are all on the same page.  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 5/3/2018 12:34 am : link
Tiki was a monster under Coughlin. He was so good those last 3 years. He needed a couple more seasons and he needed that 2007 Super Bowl ring. The Giants however, didn't need Tiki. Go figure.
No one in the history of the NFL...  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 12:56 am : link
ever did what Barber did in one five year span:

7,600+ yards rushing and 300 catches.
Strange  
Dragon : 5/3/2018 1:06 am : link
How Tiki is a question mark for the HF after playing exceptionally well for the New York Giants for years. Yet so many Giants today are supposed to be all stars yet interestingly they just suck. I donít believe he is a first time HF those years left unfinished hurt him but in time he should dawn the gold jacket. The other thing which most give credit to Eli HF case is the lack of super bowl win. He was without a doubt the best player on the field for four or five years for this team and a true NFL superstar.

Today other than Eli the rest of this entire team has many years to empress before being even considered. The next guy who has a chance is OBJ but will he continue his present pace hopefully for our sakes.
RE: No one in the history of the NFL...  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 5/3/2018 1:42 am : link
In comment 13952088 bw in dc said:
Quote:
ever did what Barber did in one five year span:

7,600+ yards rushing and 300 catches.


Tomlinson 2002-2006.

7900 yards, 330 catches and 80 TDs.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/3/2018 1:56 am : link
In comment 13952036 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13952017 arcarsenal said:


Quote:




I don't even think Bettis should be a HoF'er. He ran the ball like 3500 times and was a massive dude with a bunch of pretty good OL's. Nothing about Bettis really ever impressed me. He was just a big lumbering back in a 3 yards and a cloud of dust era.

I don't think Terrell Davis belongs either.



Well, thatís sort of besides the point now. They are in, and a decent comparative cases for Tiki.

The receiving aspect of Tikiís game is huge in this. You realize he had the same # of receptions as Marcus Allen? More than Walter Payton?

Heís in...


Itís not as close as youíre suggesting. Heís been nominated about every year since 2013 and simply doesnít get the votes.
Tiki Trying To Make A Combeack  
TheVette : 5/3/2018 2:18 am : link
What was - sometime in 2010? Think he was working out for the Steelers. He knew he walked away too soon., but was gone too long to get it back.Based on how he left off in 2006 - if he had played 2 more years and gotten over 13K yards, he would be in. Personally - with the way the Giants OL really matured in 2007 - he probably had 3 -4 years left and 15K yards could have been.
Tiki  
Phil in LA : 5/3/2018 2:29 am : link
Is better than some guys who are in. Giants didnít use him at the goal line much so fewerTDs than most hall of famers.
RE: .  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/3/2018 6:11 am : link
In comment 13951970 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
No. He would have been if he played a few more years. He literally walked away from the game at his peak. He was in the midst of some absolutely incredible seasons. But he needed a few more like that to really be a HoF'er.


This.
Yes and I don't think its close.  
SeanLandeta : 5/3/2018 6:16 am : link
His stats are monstrous - including all mentioned above, his YPC are 3rd all time for RBs with over 10,000 yards - behind only Barry Sanders and Jim Brown!

Also, for those saying he didn't play long enough, 10k yds is a longevity benchmark and he achieved that. Sure, more years would have padded all of his stats, but he has enough to be in already. Between the total yds rushing, combined rush/rec yds, avg. YPC, 200 yd games (2nd most all time to OJ Simpson), 2000 yd (combined seasons), etc. he is above many backs already in and right up there with some of the best.

Fans can have a sour opinion of him because of his comments, but his production was there. He belongs in the hall.
RE: RE: No one in the history of the NFL...  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 6:25 am : link
In comment 13952095 Tim in Eternal Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 13952088 bw in dc said:


Quote:


ever did what Barber did in one five year span:

7,600+ yards rushing and 300 catches.



Tomlinson 2002-2006.

7900 yards, 330 catches and 80 TDs.


Thanks, Tim. Canít believe I missed that. Well, no one in the NFC... ; )

Still, fairly good company...
Had to check to be sure  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/3/2018 6:31 am : link
But in his years of eligibility, he has never made it to the semifinals of the process. That means he hasn't been able to break into the final 30 eligible players. The ballot records are viewable online.
No  
ZogZerg : 5/3/2018 6:32 am : link
He was a good back and a stat compiler, not a HOFr.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 6:40 am : link
In comment 13952099 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:


Itís not as close as youíre suggesting. Heís been nominated about every year since 2013 and simply doesnít get the votes.


You certainly have me there. But the voters get things wrong.

And sometimes they correct it (Charles Haley), sometimes they donít (Sterling Sharpe - his numbers for a seven year career are brilliant; Gale Sayers of WRs).

RE: No  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 6:43 am : link
In comment 13952125 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
He was a good back and a stat compiler, not a HOFr.


Jerome Bettis is a stat compiler. Heís in because he was a fat, loveable, cheery, Santa Claus-like person who had a fun nickname...

Barber was better than him.
Bettis in HOF  
bc4life : 5/3/2018 7:50 am : link
because he's fat, cheery, and nickname? WTF?

RE: Tiki- at the height of his game, Tiki played at a HOF level - so the question - was there enough length to that peak period?

Gotta go back and look at it, the fumble years the buildup years to when he became a great back. One thing Tiki does not get enough credit for is the toughness he developed. He was not the biggest back and he took some major shots and never whined about it, played hurt, etc.
I'd probably say yeah  
bc4life : 5/3/2018 8:00 am : link
1st 3 or so years they had other backs - Wheatley Wat, Gary Brown, Joe Montgomery,

Once he got his chance - although fumbling delayed that a bit, plus one year he tried playing too light (can't remember which one)he made the most of it.

Will probably take him a while but I think he'll get in.
NO  
holmancomedown : 5/3/2018 8:03 am : link
Good running back but he needed at least 2 or 3 more years like the last 3 years of his career to even be considered.
RE: RE: .  
Big Blue '56 : 5/3/2018 8:04 am : link
In comment 13951994 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13951970 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


No. He would have been if he played a few more years. He literally walked away from the game at his peak. He was in the midst of some absolutely incredible seasons. But he needed a few more like that to really be a HoF'er.



All of Barberís best 5 years are better than Bettisí 5 years.

He was was a better all around back by a mile.


Bavaro should be in before Tiki. MBís career was cut short, but his productive years were as long as Tikiís was
Nope  
Jimmy Googs : 5/3/2018 8:18 am : link
and the argument that someone else of "lesser" stature is already in is weak...
And btw?  
Big Blue '56 : 5/3/2018 8:19 am : link
The best ALL-AROUND TEs in my lifetime in no particular order:

Bavaro, Mackey, Winslow, Ditka, Witten. I know Iím leaving out a few that I petsonally would put on this list
He screwed himself by pulling himself in his prime....  
Britt in VA : 5/3/2018 8:19 am : link
One more season like the previous three (especially if he was part of the SB team), and he would have been in.
Only 3 players have accumulated 10,000 yards rushing/5,000 recieiving  
gmenrule-va : 5/3/2018 8:22 am : link
in their careers. The first two are Marcus Allen and Marshall Falk - - the third is Tiki Barber. So I think he should be in the hall of fame.
RE: He screwed himself by pulling himself in his prime....  
Jimmy Googs : 5/3/2018 8:23 am : link
In comment 13952195 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
One more season like the previous three (especially if he was part of the SB team), and he would have been in.


yep
I don't know..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/3/2018 8:25 am : link
if he should be in, but the fact that other players with a shorter, less productive prime are in, shows just how subjective some of this stuff is.

It is an odd dynamic where there are arguments against a very strong short period for some players like Kurt Warner or Terrell Davis that propel them to the Hall, but become red flags for other candidates.

Just like people who compile stats are sometimes rewarded for their body of work, and then other times it works against them, like with Vinny Testeverde.
RE: I don't know..  
Britt in VA : 5/3/2018 8:28 am : link
In comment 13952205 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
if he should be in, but the fact that other players with a shorter, less productive prime are in, shows just how subjective some of this stuff is.

It is an odd dynamic where there are arguments against a very strong short period for some players like Kurt Warner or Terrell Davis that propel them to the Hall, but become red flags for other candidates.

Just like people who compile stats are sometimes rewarded for their body of work, and then other times it works against them, like with Vinny Testeverde.


Yeah, like I said, one more season and he could have locked himself in. Personally, I think he should be in based on those three MVP level seasons. But he didn't leave himself any wiggle room.

He and Phil Simms will remain two Giants that are just on the outside looking in, unfortunately.
2 more years and he was in  
Sonic Youth : 5/3/2018 8:32 am : link
Was he HOF quality at his peak? Absolutely, no question in my mind.
RE: RE: We wouldnít have won the Super Bowl in 2007  
bradshaw44 : 5/3/2018 8:33 am : link
In comment 13952019 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13952009 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


If tiki was on the team. The team got better by addition from subtraction. Tiki gone made the coaches change strategy and play guys like Bradshaw. Another addition by subtraction came when Shockey went down. Coaches change strategy and get Boss involved. The two biggest me guys that even the coaches wanted to force the ball to because they believed they were the total offense. Turned out that letting Eli spread the ball around was the best thing for the team. Tiki being on the team would have kept Us from a lombardi, no doubt.



No doubt? Who knows, but Barber was better than Jacobs or Bradshaw - period. Barber with Jacobs and Bradshaw is a pretty dynamic backfield. Don't quite get taking 1800 to 2200 yards off the field (or more because the team was better) makes it a better team.


Bradshaw would have never played. It changed the dynamic of the team for the bettter. Sure we may have one, but odds are we wouldnít have won. It takes a lot of luck and specific dynamics to win it all and things would have been totally different if he was there.
Those 3 years were super HOF quality. A lot  
Big Blue '56 : 5/3/2018 8:35 am : link
of that could be attributable to TC who helped his effectively eliminate his fumble problem
He will get in  
Gman11 : 5/3/2018 8:50 am : link
when people that vote don't remember what a douche he was after he retired and just look at his stats. Then they'll say, "How in the world is this guy not in?"
RE: RE: We wouldnít have won the Super Bowl in 2007  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/3/2018 8:57 am : link
In comment 13952019 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13952009 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


If tiki was on the team. The team got better by addition from subtraction. Tiki gone made the coaches change strategy and play guys like Bradshaw. Another addition by subtraction came when Shockey went down. Coaches change strategy and get Boss involved. The two biggest me guys that even the coaches wanted to force the ball to because they believed they were the total offense. Turned out that letting Eli spread the ball around was the best thing for the team. Tiki being on the team would have kept Us from a lombardi, no doubt.



No doubt? Who knows, but Barber was better than Jacobs or Bradshaw - period. Barber with Jacobs and Bradshaw is a pretty dynamic backfield. Don't quite get taking 1800 to 2200 yards off the field (or more because the team was better) makes it a better team.

Except they didn't take 1800 to 2200 yards of the field. Tiki wouldn't have been purely additive; there's a level of displacement involved. From 2006 to 2007, the Giants' RB production decreased by 46 yards rushing and 209 yards receiving. So they took 255 yards off the field, which translates to 16 yards per game.
Probably the biggest argument for devaluing the RBs is Tiki retiring  
Ivan15 : 5/3/2018 8:58 am : link
He was the focus of the offense but only got to 1 SB. He was at his peak but old for a RB when he quit.

At the time he retired, I interpreted his comments to mean that TC showed him how hard he needed to work and he just didnít want to work that hard any longer. Many interpreted his statements as a slap at TC.

After he retired, he made and continues to make bonehead statements but thatís just Tiki. I would rather have the SB, but it would have been nice to see what he could have done in 2 more seasons.
No  
PatersonPlank : 5/3/2018 9:05 am : link
and why does this topic come up every 6 months?
Absolutely not a Hall of Famer.  
Mr. Bungle : 5/3/2018 9:06 am : link
No way.
The year he retired we won a superbowl  
est1986 : 5/3/2018 9:23 am : link
If he had stayed just that one year and played well and won the Super Bowl with us he would have a great case... but to answer the question, no.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/3/2018 9:50 am : link
In comment 13952036 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13952017 arcarsenal said:


Quote:




I don't even think Bettis should be a HoF'er. He ran the ball like 3500 times and was a massive dude with a bunch of pretty good OL's. Nothing about Bettis really ever impressed me. He was just a big lumbering back in a 3 yards and a cloud of dust era.

I don't think Terrell Davis belongs either.



Well, thatís sort of besides the point now. They are in, and a decent comparative cases for Tiki.

The receiving aspect of Tikiís game is huge in this. You realize he had the same # of receptions as Marcus Allen? More than Walter Payton?

Heís in...


He's not in, and he's not getting in.

Sorry, buddy. :)
His numbers are certainly more deserving than Eli's  
WideRight : 5/3/2018 9:57 am : link
So it goes to what the heart of the HOF is.....

More and more, I come to realize fame is not numbers, its what you have done in the game to perpetuate its greatness.

Eli's numbers are pretty bad for HOF standards, but his performance when it counts, and his overall character in his competitions have clearly made him more famous than Tiki.

Tiki just shot himself in the foot (sorry Plax!) with the way he carried himself as left the game.

For the record I would love to see Tiki get in, because he was that good, but I just don't see happening.
RE: He screwed himself by pulling himself in his prime....  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 9:58 am : link
In comment 13952195 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
One more season like the previous three (especially if he was part of the SB team), and he would have been in.


I don't understand this goofy, made-up criteria. So going out while you are on top and healthy is bad? It's more romantic and admirable to drag yourself off the field?

He played 10 hard seasons of pro football at a demanding position. And in the last five he absolutely killed it as well as anyone we've seen in this all-around back role...


RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 9:59 am : link
In comment 13952341 arcarsenal said:
Quote:

He's not in, and he's not getting in.

Sorry, buddy. :)


That was compelling. Well said... ;)
For a few seasons  
joeinpa : 5/3/2018 10:41 am : link
He played at HOF level. The guy was a great player and a great Giant.

He has an ego, big deal, we have rooted for other Giants with a similar trait. But it seems he committed the unforgivable sin for some; he poked fun at Eli.

I have always been an Eli guy, still am, but evidently not to the extent of some who seem to think he should be immune to any of the negative things that have happened to other great quarterbacks, some better than Him.
This is what I wrote  
PaulBlakeTSU : 5/3/2018 10:45 am : link
a few times several years ago when the debate went on. The below is from 2011. Some guys like Frank Gore and Peterson may have passed him in a category or two.

Quote:

Tiki Barber is a Hall of Famer. If he had 1-3 years of less-than-average, declining production, he would have all the numbers in the world to get in. Football is a violent sport that had serious long-term health effects on its players. Just Google "Earl Campbell health" for a collection of articles describing how he needs a walker or wheelchair, and shuffles about due to the hits he took as a running back. I can never begrudge a player (especially a running back who only receives hits) from wanting to walk away from the game when health is a potential factor. Granted, there were other factors in Tiki's retirement (his plan to have a great broadcasting career), but the physical toll was one of the factors involved.

So I can't look at someone who had a very solid career, walked away at his peak, and think "he's a few declining years of stat accumulation away from being a Hall of Famer."

Much of this is taken from the other thread, but here are Tiki's accomplishments, and some realistic projections/extrapolations


- Tiki is the 3rd back in NFL history to have 10,000 rushing yards nad 5,000 receiving yards (Marshall Faulk and Marcus Allen).

-Tiki became the third RB in history to have three 200-yard rushing games in a single season (OJ, Earl Campbell)

- Tiki led his team in rushing for 80 straight games, an NFL record.

Tiki is 22nd all-time in rushing yards with 4.7 yards per carry. The only running backs with more rushing yards and a better yard/carry rate are Jim Brown (5.2) and Barry Sanders (5.0). OJ Simpson is tied at 4.7.
---------------
Projection time

Tiki is currently 22nd all-time in rushing yards with 10,449 yards.

3,653 more rushing yards would put him ahead of Curtis Martin and 4th all-time behind Smith, Payton, and Sanders. Barber rushed for 3522 in his two previous seasons combined. Even if he declined, if he suited up for three more seasons, he would still gain plenty of yards. Tiki's 2006 rushing yards total was 89% of his 2007 rushing yards total. Let's assume he "declines" at a similar rate every year (2006 was better than 2004, so it's not necessarily a decline, but let's try it anyway).

If he declined at that same rate, here are his rushing numbers


2006 Rushing yards: 1662
2007* Rushing yards: 1485
2008* Rushing yards: 1327
2009* Rushing yards: 1185

That total adds to 3,997 more yards to his career which would have put him in fourth place all-time rushing. Even if the drop-off is more significant (and it very well might be), it shows that compiling numbers in declining years would elevate him to near the very top of the class in all-time rushing yards. 3214 puts him 5th ahead of Bettis who played until the wheels fell off the bus and he wore down the rims. Granted, his elite yards/carry average would drop, but his overall numbers would be staggering.

And that is just extrapolating rushing yards. Tiki's biggest asset was that he was also a threat to catch out of the backfield and he amassed a fantastic yards from scrimmage total.

Tiki is currently 12th all-time in yards from scrimmage with 15,632 yards and he walked away after three insane seasons and while in his prime. In final three seasons, going backwards, here are his yards from scrimmage: 2127, 2390, 2096.

Marshall Faulk is fourth all-time in yards from scrimmage with 3522 more than Tiki Barber. Is it that crazy to think that a healthy Tiki, even in decline could average 1761 yards from scrimmage over two more seasons? Even if he played in a very declining fashion for three yards, is it crazy to think that he could get

2007* 1600 yards 100 yds/game
2008* 1200 yards 75 yds/game
2009* 800 yards 50 yds/game

That almost seems too easy for Tiki Barber.
If he did that, he would be behind only Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, and Walter Payton in all-time yards from scrimmage. That is some absolutely elite territory. And Tiki would only have to stay healthy. He wouldn't even need more "prime" years.

Obviously, it's a what-if game, but like I said, I won't fault a player from wanting to walk away on top.
He was a HOF  
Essex : 5/3/2018 11:35 am : link
if we could get his production from 2002-2006 in any five year stretch for Saquon, we will be celebrating the pick. Tiki was the best player at his position for a time and certainly on of the best of his generation. He deserves enshrinement, and I really have my issues with how he conducted himself in 2006.
No  
jeff57 : 5/3/2018 11:39 am : link
.
RE: He was a HOF  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13952550 Essex said:
Quote:
if we could get his production from 2002-2006 in any five year stretch for Saquon, we will be celebrating the pick. Tiki was the best player at his position for a time and certainly on of the best of his generation. He deserves enshrinement, and I really have my issues with how he conducted himself in 2006.


I don't know if he was the best RB for those five years but he was definitely fighting for a place on the medal stand as the best all-around RB. And that list, in my view, was between Tiki, Tomlinson, and James.

It's interesting how time can blur perspective. I knew Tiki was really good and had finally found his stride. But in doing the research for this thread, I was blown away just how good. He was simply great by any standard.

Oddly, you would think doing such great work in our biggest market would make the accomplishment even greater. Instead, for Tiki, it's been neutralized by off the field bullsh-t and noise...It's really too bad...
Probably not, but two interesting stats  
BSIMatt : 5/3/2018 12:19 pm : link
For players with at least 40 career games,
He is in top 20 all time(18th overall in yards per scrimmage per game). In the same set of players, he is 3rd all time in yards per play(rushing+rec yards/receptions+attempts) behind only Julio Jones and Jim Brown, and Tiki has twice the yardage of Julio, and edges Jim Brown out in total yardage, 15632 to 14811). Brown averaged 5.65 yards per play to Barbers 5.58 yards per play.
He was missing a longevity component  
JonC : 5/3/2018 12:30 pm : link
where he needed something like 12,000 yards to push him over the top, because his peak window was short and he didn't score a ton of TDs.

But, with Bettis and Davis getting elected I'm not seeing where Tiki falls short, except for the parting shots and his team winning the SB after he retires.
and the shine should have been off Terrell Davis  
Greg from LI : 5/3/2018 12:35 pm : link
Once every random dude the Broncos (and, later, the Redskins) threw out there magically turned into a 1000 yard rusher. Clinton Portis went from 5+ YPC with the Broncos to 3.8-4.2 with the Skins. Reuben Droughns was a 1200 yard rusher for the Broncos. Mike Anderson, 1500 yards. Olandis Gary, 1100 yards in 12 games. Tatum Bell, Alfred Morris.....whatever else you can say about Mike Shanahan, he knew how to create a dynamite running game.
RE: RE: He screwed himself by pulling himself in his prime....  
Brown Recluse : 5/3/2018 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13952355 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13952195 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


One more season like the previous three (especially if he was part of the SB team), and he would have been in.



I don't understand this goofy, made-up criteria. So going out while you are on top and healthy is bad? It's more romantic and admirable to drag yourself off the field?

He played 10 hard seasons of pro football at a demanding position. And in the last five he absolutely killed it as well as anyone we've seen in this all-around back role...



Its not goofy made up criteria. He didn't have enough yardage because he retired early. Plain and simple. If he'd played one more season, he'd have the yardage and a Super Bowl trophy on top of that.

Also, look...spare me the stuff about how he went out when he did for his health. That a load of crap because he tried to come back into the league a few years later. He retired when he did because he was full of himself.

I'm not taking anything away from his career, which was stellar. He just didn't do it long enough and thats entirely on him.
He is 13th all time in total yardage  
BSIMatt : 5/3/2018 12:47 pm : link
Everyone ahead of him is in the hall of fame except for Frank Gore. I think what hurt him is his best years came right at the end, he didn't have this sustained success where he stood out among his peers over and extended period, also, scoring more touchdowns would have helped as well. He's not particularly high on the total touchdowns(he is 111th all time in rushing/rec touchdowns).
RE: RE: RE: He screwed himself by pulling himself in his prime....  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13952695 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:

Its not goofy made up criteria. He didn't have enough yardage because he retired early. Plain and simple. If he'd played one more season, he'd have the yardage and a Super Bowl trophy on top of that.

Also, look...spare me the stuff about how he went out when he did for his health. That a load of crap because he tried to come back into the league a few years later. He retired when he did because he was full of himself.


What exactly is enough yardage mean? Is it Hall of Famer Larry Csonka's 8K yards? Is Hall of Famer Terell Davis's 7K yards? It is Hall of Famer Floyd Little's 6K yards? Is it Hall of Famer Gale Sayer's 5K yards? Indeed, so plain and simple...

Let's not kid ourselves please. There is no set criteria for the HoF. The criteria is what a bunch of writers decide the criteria is for 48 hours in February every year.

I guess that's a fair point about Barber trying to come back. But that wasn't a big surprise to me since athletes of that caliber sort of go through withdraw and got the bug to re-live that un-matchable glory.
RE: RE: RE: RE: He screwed himself by pulling himself in his prime....  
Elisthebest : 5/3/2018 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13952745 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13952695 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:



Its not goofy made up criteria. He didn't have enough yardage because he retired early. Plain and simple. If he'd played one more season, he'd have the yardage and a Super Bowl trophy on top of that.

Also, look...spare me the stuff about how he went out when he did for his health. That a load of crap because he tried to come back into the league a few years later. He retired when he did because he was full of himself.




What exactly is enough yardage mean? Is it Hall of Famer Larry Csonka's 8K yards? Is Hall of Famer Terell Davis's 7K yards? It is Hall of Famer Floyd Little's 6K yards? Is it Hall of Famer Gale Sayer's 5K yards? Indeed, so plain and simple...

Let's not kid ourselves please. There is no set criteria for the HoF. The criteria is what a bunch of writers decide the criteria is for 48 hours in February every year.

I guess that's a fair point about Barber trying to come back. But that wasn't a big surprise to me since athletes of that caliber sort of go through withdraw and got the bug to re-live that un-matchable glory.

To me it hurts the argument to get him in when you start comparing him (anyone) to Gale Sayers
Let's do a hypothetical  
Greg from LI : 5/3/2018 1:40 pm : link
Let's say Tiki played three more years, at a significant dropoff in production. Give him Bettis' last three years - 811/3.3, 941/3.8, 386/3.3. That gets Tiki over the 12K yard mark. Would that have gotten him in? If your answer is yes, why? Why would three mediocre at best seasons be the determining factor?
I don't get the  
RinR : 5/3/2018 1:43 pm : link
"No...and he's not close" arguments. Statistically he is right there or ahead of others who are in as has already been pointed out by other posters.

And I seriously doubt voters are keeping him out because he dissed Eli. Thats just silly.
RE: Let's do a hypothetical  
Brown Recluse : 5/3/2018 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13952814 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Let's say Tiki played three more years, at a significant dropoff in production. Give him Bettis' last three years - 811/3.3, 941/3.8, 386/3.3. That gets Tiki over the 12K yard mark. Would that have gotten him in? If your answer is yes, why? Why would three mediocre at best seasons be the determining factor?


This is simply my opinion but, I don't see how you can put a RB in the HoF that is 26th on total rushing. Maybe its been done before, but if so, that shouldn't have happened either. I'm not looking at receivng yardage because RB's run the ball first. 26th in total rushing isn't good enough. Another year or two would have most likely catapulted him into the top 10 and then it would be a no-brainer.

Hall of Fame talent? Absolutely. Hall of Fame numbers? Nope.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He screwed himself by pulling himself in his prime....  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13952806 Elisthebest said:
Quote:

To me it hurts the argument to get him in when you start comparing him (anyone) to Gale Sayers


I wasn't comparing Barber to Sanders. I was comparing career yardage.

Comparison is hearing that Barkley is the next Barry Sanders for the last month... ;)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He screwed himself by pulling himself in his prime....  
Brown Recluse : 5/3/2018 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13952837 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13952806 Elisthebest said:


Quote:



To me it hurts the argument to get him in when you start comparing him (anyone) to Gale Sayers



I wasn't comparing Barber to Sanders. I was comparing career yardage.

Comparison is hearing that Barkley is the next Barry Sanders for the last month... ;)


Agreed. Next LDT is a much better comparison :)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He screwed himself by pulling himself in his prime....  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13952839 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:

Agreed. Next LDT is a much better comparison :)


Glad you used LDT. It has never felt right calling Tomlinson "LT".

That's been taken. And should be treated like a retired #...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He screwed himself by pulling himself in his prime....  
Big Blue '56 : 5/3/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13952848 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13952839 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:



Agreed. Next LDT is a much better comparison :)



Glad you used LDT. It has never felt right calling Tomlinson "LT".

That's been taken. And should be treated like a retired #...


ALWAYS BOTHERED me. It should never have been another LT. I hated when some on here referred to LDT as LT
Very close, and I think he will regret  
Section331 : 5/3/2018 2:49 pm : link
retiring early (if he doesn't already). Besides missing the SB win, one more season at the level he had been playing at and he's probably in, two more and he's a no-doubt HOF'er.
RE: RE: Let's do a hypothetical  
SeanLandeta : 5/3/2018 3:16 pm : link
In comment 13952826 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 13952814 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Let's say Tiki played three more years, at a significant dropoff in production. Give him Bettis' last three years - 811/3.3, 941/3.8, 386/3.3. That gets Tiki over the 12K yard mark. Would that have gotten him in? If your answer is yes, why? Why would three mediocre at best seasons be the determining factor?



This is simply my opinion but, I don't see how you can put a RB in the HoF that is 26th on total rushing. Maybe its been done before, but if so, that shouldn't have happened either. I'm not looking at receivng yardage because RB's run the ball first. 26th in total rushing isn't good enough. Another year or two would have most likely catapulted him into the top 10 and then it would be a no-brainer.

Hall of Fame talent? Absolutely. Hall of Fame numbers? Nope.


There are at least 20 RBs in the Hall of Fame already that are lower on the total yards list. The benchmark for longevity has long been 10,000 yds - which he has. If you have less than 10k there would seem to need to be compelling alternate facts that get you in, but if you've reached 10k then you can't use the - he didn't play long enough argument - if you want to make any sense.

Tiki has the longevity (with the 10k yds) and so many other factors putting him amongst elite RBs of all time. All of that adds up to a Hall-worthy player.
RE: Very close, and I think he will regret  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 3:23 pm : link
In comment 13952938 Section331 said:
Quote:
retiring early (if he doesn't already). Besides missing the SB win, one more season at the level he had been playing at and he's probably in, two more and he's a no-doubt HOF'er.


That just seem so crazy to me as justification. The SB was so random. No one saw that coming. It was a magic carpet ride.

So what if Barber played the next year, but got a career ending injury and couldn't play or played for a few games? Does he get credit for at least trying? So his candidacy is now better?
RE: RE: Very close, and I think he will regret  
Section331 : 5/3/2018 3:26 pm : link
In comment 13952974 bw in dc said:
Quote:

That just seem so crazy to me as justification. The SB was so random. No one saw that coming. It was a magic carpet ride.

So what if Barber played the next year, but got a career ending injury and couldn't play or played for a few games? Does he get credit for at least trying? So his candidacy is now better?


Sorry, I wasn't clear, I simply meant playing another year would have enabled him to experience a SB win, not that it should necessarily be used as justification for his HOF candidacy.

The justification would have been in accumulating one more year of stats, if at the previous 5 year level. I think that would have been enough to get him in, 2 years and he would have been a lock.
RE: RE: RE: Very close, and I think he will regret  
SeanLandeta : 5/3/2018 4:01 pm : link
In comment 13952981 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13952974 bw in dc said:


Quote:



That just seem so crazy to me as justification. The SB was so random. No one saw that coming. It was a magic carpet ride.

So what if Barber played the next year, but got a career ending injury and couldn't play or played for a few games? Does he get credit for at least trying? So his candidacy is now better?



Sorry, I wasn't clear, I simply meant playing another year would have enabled him to experience a SB win, not that it should necessarily be used as justification for his HOF candidacy.

The justification would have been in accumulating one more year of stats, if at the previous 5 year level. I think that would have been enough to get him in, 2 years and he would have been a lock.


What stats did he need to accumulate more of to be Hall-worthy that he didn't already have? More yards? He already has more than 20 HoF RBs? More 200 yd games? He's already 2nd all time. And on down the list - another year or two shouldn't make a difference when it didn't for so many other backs with less impressive numbers.
People are always under the assumption it's about stats  
JOrthman : 5/3/2018 4:30 pm : link
Yes, those are high up there on the criteria, but if anything we should realize by now it's more on the impact you had on the game and the perception of your career. Perception is why guys like Warner and TD got in (SB's and football lore) and the same reason that even if Eli gets in it will take awhile.

Tiki has the stats, but the things holding him back is perception. It took him some time to hit his stride and early on had fumble issues. He didn't have the greatest rep in the locker room, often siding with ownership over players and he left early taking shots at everyone on his way out. If he gets in, it will be after that negative perception dies down or changes. People can claim health or being wore down all they want, but I'd say a lot of that had to do with everything he was trying to do outside of football.
RE: Bettis in HOF  
BluesCruise : 5/3/2018 5:48 pm : link
In comment 13952163 bc4life said:
Quote:
because he's fat, cheery, and nickname? WTF?

RE: Tiki- at the height of his game, Tiki played at a HOF level - so the question - was there enough length to that peak period?

Gotta go back and look at it, the fumble years the buildup years to when he became a great back. One thing Tiki does not get enough credit for is the toughness he developed. He was not the biggest back and he took some major shots and never whined about it, played hurt, etc.

I dont remember Tiki taking too many shots, he was extremely strong form the waist down

The guy squated 900 lbs in his workouts with Joe Carini in Hawthorne NJ

He took shots from Coughlin.....claimed he retired because he could not stand the man
RE: RE: Let's do a hypothetical  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/3/2018 6:22 pm : link
In comment 13952826 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 13952814 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Let's say Tiki played three more years, at a significant dropoff in production. Give him Bettis' last three years - 811/3.3, 941/3.8, 386/3.3. That gets Tiki over the 12K yard mark. Would that have gotten him in? If your answer is yes, why? Why would three mediocre at best seasons be the determining factor?



This is simply my opinion but, I don't see how you can put a RB in the HoF that is 26th on total rushing. Maybe its been done before, but if so, that shouldn't have happened either. I'm not looking at receivng yardage because RB's run the ball first. 26th in total rushing isn't good enough. Another year or two would have most likely catapulted him into the top 10 and then it would be a no-brainer.

Hall of Fame talent? Absolutely. Hall of Fame numbers? Nope.

Do receiving yards count less than rushing yards? Shouldn't a player's versatility and ability to keep a defense on its heels be more valuable (rather than less)? Should we ignore Deion Sanders' impact in the return game because a CB's primary job is pass coverage?

Your attempts to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian are pretty weak.
not looking at Tiki's receiving yards  
PaulBlakeTSU : 5/3/2018 6:41 pm : link
because RBs "run the ball first" is like not looking at LeBron's assists because he's a scorer first.
The only 10K+ yd rushers who averaged more yards per carry than Tiki  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/3/2018 7:09 pm : link
- Jim Brown
- Barry Sanders
- Adrian Peterson

At the time of Tiki's retirement, he had more yards from scrimmage over a 7 year period than any player in NFL history over such a span. Ladanian Tomlinson later surpassed that mark by 584 yards thanks in part to 412 (!!!) more touches during his 7 year span.
RE: The only 10K+ yd rushers who averaged more yards per carry than Tiki  
bw in dc : 5/3/2018 11:48 pm : link
In comment 13953421 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
- Jim Brown
- Barry Sanders
- Adrian Peterson

At the time of Tiki's retirement, he had more yards from scrimmage over a 7 year period than any player in NFL history over such a span. Ladanian Tomlinson later surpassed that mark by 584 yards thanks in part to 412 (!!!) more touches during his 7 year span.


Tiki and Walter Payton are the only RBs in history to have 3 straight 2K total yard seasons. And Barber averaged over 200 total yards per season than Payton.
Tiki took major hit  
bc4life : 5/4/2018 7:38 am : link
in SB loss to Ravens. One of Ravens remarked that they did not think he was going to get up. Got up and played the rest of the game. Clearly wasn't the strength of his game but someone built like 3rd down back - was able to withstand some big hits. Also knocked unconscious against Pats - fumbled the ball but returned to the game.

Think he was first start player who couldn't stand his coach?
He never had the heart  
The Tempest : 5/4/2018 1:26 pm : link
He had the talent and on that alone he would be a candidate. He didn't have the heart though. Had his best years under Coughlin and quit because it was too hard, wasn't having fun. I appreciate Barber and don't hate him, just have a higher standard for someone to put on the gold jacket and be enshrined in Canton.
RE: He never had the heart  
PaulBlakeTSU : 5/4/2018 2:08 pm : link
In comment 13954413 The Tempest said:
Quote:
He had the talent and on that alone he would be a candidate. He didn't have the heart though. Had his best years under Coughlin and quit because it was too hard, wasn't having fun. I appreciate Barber and don't hate him, just have a higher standard for someone to put on the gold jacket and be enshrined in Canton.


Didn't have the heart? That's absurd. You don't train the way he trained and produce he way he produced, and give everything in every play the way he did without an incredible amount of heart and commitment to the game. He retired because football players, particularly running backs, get their brains scrambled into mush. He was listening to his body.


Quote:
"When I get home from work," says Barber, "my [two- and four-year-old] kids come running at me. They make me get on my knees, and we play tackle football. On replacement knees, that's not happening. I saw this video of O.J. Simpson once, and his kids came running at him and he couldn't even pick them up. So I can see that if I play three or four more years, like everybody wants me to, that could be me. But when I'm 50 years old, and I'm having trouble just getting down the stairs, will they be cheering for me then?"

https://www.si.com/vault/2006/11/13/8393876/a-barber-who-wont-cut-it-close - ( New Window )
Not sure if he's a hall of famer...  
Grey Pilgrim : 5/4/2018 2:12 pm : link
but he's the best Giant RB I've ever seen.

Since he turned into a Dick  
Carl in CT : 5/4/2018 2:24 pm : link
He wouldnít get my vote.
RE: He never had the heart  
bw in dc : 5/4/2018 3:30 pm : link
In comment 13954413 The Tempest said:
Quote:
He had the talent and on that alone he would be a candidate. He didn't have the heart though. Had his best years under Coughlin and quit because it was too hard, wasn't having fun. I appreciate Barber and don't hate him, just have a higher standard for someone to put on the gold jacket and be enshrined in Canton.


He played ten years of professional football.

Unless youíre a Navy Seal, you, or no one for that matter, can question his heart.
Back to the Corner