But all along this has sounded to me like Giants are more at fault here. Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.
The shame of it is this is all so stupid and memorabilia beyond what you collect through your own experiences seems cheap and fake anyway.
What a sensational headline, a slam dunk! But, alas, it’s utter and complete horse hockey. I’m hardly impartial but in what world does it make any sense that Eli Manning would be mixed up with some sleazy memorabilia fraud? Makes zero sense.
By the way, did the Giants finally fire the sleazy equipment managers that dragged Eli into this mess? Last I heard they were suspended for a year or two or some such slap on the wrist.
Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.
The charges against Skiba were dropped (I think at the same time Eli’s case was set to go to trial). Doesn’t make sense to me, either.
I think there's no way around it, a guilty verdict Â
What I want to know - and it's in no way to excuse Eli - is how widespread something like this is. Is this the norm around the NFL (or sports in general), where merchandise gets artificially 'game worn'? Or is this some combination of the equipment managers, Eli, and the Giants conspiring to make an extra buck?
Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.
The charges against Skiba were dropped (I think at the same time Eli’s case was set to go to trial). Doesn’t make sense to me, either.
It is a civil court case. There is no money in Skiba. Eli has deeper pockets. If there was some grand conspiracy to commit fraud and it is such a slam dunk, you have to wonder why the Giants organization wasn't named as a defendant in the case.
Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.
The charges against Skiba were dropped (I think at the same time Eli’s case was set to go to trial). Doesn’t make sense to me, either.
It is a civil court case. There is no money in Skiba. Eli has deeper pockets. If there was some grand conspiracy to commit fraud and it is such a slam dunk, you have to wonder why the Giants organization wasn't named as a defendant in the case.
the Giants and John Mara were named as defendants.
What a sensational headline, a slam dunk! But, alas, it’s utter and complete horse hockey. I’m hardly impartial but in what world does it make any sense that Eli Manning would be mixed up with some sleazy memorabilia fraud? Makes zero sense.
By the way, did the Giants finally fire the sleazy equipment managers that dragged Eli into this mess? Last I heard they were suspended for a year or two or some such slap on the wrist.
Skiba is still the equipment manager. I think it was about a year or so ago when Brandon Jacobs came out and said Skiba had stolen and sold his game-worn Super Bowl gear and given Jacobs fakes. Definitely something shady going on there, and kind of eye opening that Skiba is still there. Makes me think he knows some stuff that the Giants don't want to get out.
Seems a reasonable explanation; and, as someone mentioned about the helmet ,it should have a ding or 2 sounds reasonable to further explain the poorly phrased text that is the point of the negativity and the suit.
Unless Eli can prove, how IDK, that he was totally unaware of Skiba et. al. we're gaming equipment as game worn/,used,he will get at least 4 because it black-,eyes the NFL across the league especially if an 'everybody does it's comment comes out. Yes, it's not beating a woman, doing PEDs, or ball deflating, but the league is PR sensitive with the kneeling, CTE, and conspiracy vs. Colin and EReid situations.
Rogah will make an example out of Eli as a warning to stop others from (continuing to) doing so.
But all along this has sounded to me like Giants are more at fault here. Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.
The shame of it is this is all so stupid and memorabilia beyond what you collect through your own experiences seems cheap and fake anyway.
This is civil, not criminal . Eli isn’t guilty; he’s liable. But of course it’s not his fault . It never is .
shown Eli is liable, guilty, whatever you want to call it, he will be suspended. If the Giants are also implicated they could lose draft pick(s). I dunno if either will happen, but I think the Eli thing is kind of likely.
shown Eli is liable, guilty, whatever you want to call it, he will be suspended. If the Giants are also implicated they could lose draft pick(s). I dunno if either will happen, but I think the Eli thing is kind of likely.
So we'll get that long-delayed look at Davis Webb -- and maybe the new kid.
I understand what he is asking.....he can't use a game worn helmet that has no dings.....he needs one with dings.
That's how I read it as well. Pass as game used can mean "get me equipment that passes the contractual standards" not necessarily "doctor equipment to pass as game used"
Whole thing still just seems so out of character for Eli, and it's not like he needs the money. I just don't understand what his motivation would be here or why he'd ever even be involved.
Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.
The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
What a sensational headline, a slam dunk! But, alas, it’s utter and complete horse hockey. I’m hardly impartial but in what world does it make any sense that Eli Manning would be mixed up with some sleazy memorabilia fraud? Makes zero sense.
By the way, did the Giants finally fire the sleazy equipment managers that dragged Eli into this mess? Last I heard they were suspended for a year or two or some such slap on the wrist.
Skiba is still the equipment manager. I think it was about a year or so ago when Brandon Jacobs came out and said Skiba had stolen and sold his game-worn Super Bowl gear and given Jacobs fakes. Definitely something shady going on there, and kind of eye opening that Skiba is still there. Makes me think he knows some stuff that the Giants don't want to get out.
Whole thing still just seems so out of character for Eli, and it's not like he needs the money. I just don't understand what his motivation would be here or why he'd ever even be involved.
Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.
The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
This is how I feel. It doesn't feel like something Eli would be involved in, but then again, we don't really know these guys. Eli's always seemed like a classy guy, but I've never actually spent time with him.
Whole thing still just seems so out of character for Eli, and it's not like he needs the money. I just don't understand what his motivation would be here or why he'd ever even be involved.
Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.
The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
I agree, but how many times have we seen the type of thing with guys we thought were squeaky clean, and it turned out we didn't know them as well as we thought?
I'm hoping it's only a shakedown, and the only reason they didn't settle was because they feel they'll be vindicated in the end, but you never know.
There was just one attorney quoted as saying it was a "slam dunk".
Here's the quote from that attorney.
Quote:
Michael Horn, a Hackensack-based attorney, said convincing a jury Manning violated the state’s consumer-friendly fraud act “should be a slam dunk” because attorneys only have to prove Manning was a part of the scheme.
Without passing on Eli's culpability, IMHO PSLs = NFL fraud on fans Â
find it hard to believe Eli would be involved in this. It has nothing to do with how much money he has.
for one, it's probably a hassle that is very low on the priority list and #2, memorabilia dealers are awful sleazy used car salesman and #3 many consumers (no offense to the people who read this that enjoy game used jerseys, helmets, etc) are losers.
IMO this is on the Giants and the equipment staff, they should really keep Eli (and other players) shielded from this and handle it (the game used shit at least, not the autographed stuff) on their own without inconveniencing the players.
the players have so much stuff to worry about with game preparation why not throw another thing in there with worrying about games used equipment.
but..if Eli gets caught being complicit in this he should absolutely pay a price.
Whole thing still just seems so out of character for Eli, and it's not like he needs the money. I just don't understand what his motivation would be here or why he'd ever even be involved.
Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.
The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
Well said. I'm giving Eli a full pass and benefit of the doubt for now
Brandon Jacobs would feel really upset if that was the case , he's one of the plaintiffs I believe
Whole thing still just seems so out of character for Eli, and it's not like he needs the money. I just don't understand what his motivation would be here or why he'd ever even be involved.
Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.
The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
Well said. I'm giving Eli a full pass and benefit of the doubt for now
Brandon Jacobs would feel really upset if that was the case , he's one of the plaintiffs I believe
that Eli's claim of not knowing is true. It is very likely he was just asked to sign the letters with someone telling him what it was for and him taking them at their word.
If Jacobs (and was it also Strahan?) are correct and this is also true, how does the training staff remain employed. It is far more likely that these are the guys perpetrating fraud than someone who's earned over $100M.
...Eli meant what he said, as in they can pass the CRITERIA for “game worn” DESIGNATION, as in “he wore them in a FRIGGEN game”.
This seems very “special prosecutor” like. Misrepresent what he meant then hold him responsible for casually saying it in a less articulate fashion than say a pole up his ass lawyer would.
find it hard to believe Eli would be involved in this. It has nothing to do with how much money he has.
for one, it's probably a hassle that is very low on the priority list and #2, memorabilia dealers are awful sleazy used car salesman and #3 many consumers (no offense to the people who read this that enjoy game used jerseys, helmets, etc) are losers.
IMO this is on the Giants and the equipment staff, they should really keep Eli (and other players) shielded from this and handle it (the game used shit at least, not the autographed stuff) on their own without inconveniencing the players.
the players have so much stuff to worry about with game preparation why not throw another thing in there with worrying about games used equipment.
but..if Eli gets caught being complicit in this he should absolutely pay a price.
This looks like mostly a response to my post, though it isn't addressed directly.
I would certainly be surprised if Eli Manning was knowingly committing fraud, yes. I don't think that's crazy. The guy has been here 15 years and although fans don't know him personally, I think it's fair to say we've got a pretty good feel for his character - and this would be very much out of it for him. Maybe I'm naive, but that's how I feel.
The whole thing just doesn't add up. I'm inclined to think he wasn't fully aware of what was going on, but we'll see.
They can't go hog wild on Eli or the Giants because the
NFL knows damn well that every single team sells phony
"game used" jerseys and helmets just like the Giants do.
The Giants didn't invent this, it's a league-wide epidemic.
not just you, a lot of people were steadfast that Eli wouldn't knowingly do this.
You're right that none of us knows Eli (probably), but I guess I just expect the worst and with something like this I can definitely see him (or any athlete that has to deal with grown men hounding them for used cleats, gloves, jerseys or autographs, etc. - that they're probably going to sell for a profit) having contempt for those mostly loathsome creatures and 100% knowingly not give a shit if what they're saying was game used actually isn't game used.
I just don't hold Eli or any other athlete up to a standard that is beyond reproach.
And I'm not judging him if he did knowingly do it, I don't really give a shit, I kind of think he's doing god's work ripping off these sleaze bags, but the league will absolutely punish him if he's found liable and it definitely wouldn't shock me if he is.
I hope he's not, but view it from the lens of non-Giants fans. Most are convinced given the reported details he definitely did it knowingly.
find it hard to believe Eli would be involved in this. It has nothing to do with how much money he has.
for one, it's probably a hassle that is very low on the priority list and #2, memorabilia dealers are awful sleazy used car salesman and #3 many consumers (no offense to the people who read this that enjoy game used jerseys, helmets, etc) are losers.
IMO this is on the Giants and the equipment staff, they should really keep Eli (and other players) shielded from this and handle it (the game used shit at least, not the autographed stuff) on their own without inconveniencing the players.
the players have so much stuff to worry about with game preparation why not throw another thing in there with worrying about games used equipment.
but..if Eli gets caught being complicit in this he should absolutely pay a price.
This looks like mostly a response to my post, though it isn't addressed directly.
I would certainly be surprised if Eli Manning was knowingly committing fraud, yes. I don't think that's crazy. The guy has been here 15 years and although fans don't know him personally, I think it's fair to say we've got a pretty good feel for his character - and this would be very much out of it for him. Maybe I'm naive, but that's how I feel.
The whole thing just doesn't add up. I'm inclined to think he wasn't fully aware of what was going on, but we'll see.
I have a hard time accepting that Eli would actively try to screw over a fan or even just a business partner or collector. That said, I also believe that the Mannings separate finances from emotion in general, as a course of doing business.
I think, if this was a criminal case, Eli would walk for lack of scienter. That it's a civil suit, with intent absent from the calculus, is important to keep in mind.
I hope that Eli's good name is cleared, but I don't share the view of others that it's impossible to imagine him participating in this scheme. I just think that if he did, it was with a lack of consideration for how disappointing it would be to buy something that "can pass" for what someone thought they were buying. I suspect that if he bears any culpability, it's because he only considered the relationship between himself and Steiner, not beyond.
But people were deceived in this and thats all that matters. Writing them off as losers (from people that post several times daily on a football message board no less, something many others would find more than a little weird) doesnt change the fact that human beings were deceived when spending their money on goods. Thats all that matters
Bottom line is this doesnt look good for Eli one bit. Are there worse transgressions? Sure. But the rush to absolve him and the collective “say it aint so!” is more than a little weird. None of you know Eli. For some of you to think you do based on merely observing his public persona for a bit is naive.
pj/GD... I agree that it's definitely not impossible by any means. I wouldn't put anything past any athlete.
I would just be really surprised - even after admitting that I wouldn't necessarily rule anything out for anyone.
I definitely think IF he was involved, it was with a lack of complete knowledge of the situation. That would seem to be the most likely scenario. And if that's the case, it really wouldn't change my opinion of him at all.
The only thing that would really disappoint me here would be if Eli was fully aware of what was going on and was playing an active role in it. So, hopefully that won't be the case when all of the info finds its way out.
Whats the alternative explanation for Eli sending an email asking for “two jerseys that can pass as game used”. Red handed.
Come on now. Was he hacked? Or do you buy his bs explanation that “pass as game used” was just another way of asking for legitimately game worn jerseys? This is “the definition of is is” territory. Please dont be this naive, youre better than that i think
Judging someone a loser because they buy memorabilia is a bit much. If I bought my nephew or dad something as a gift, I'd definitely like it to be the market rate, not a make a believe premium. If I spent more on something because I wanted something more special and it wasn't, I'd definitely feel like a loser.
The issue is somewhere between the Giants, the equipment guys, Manning, and the dealer, every day people might have been ripped off.
I believe pretty certainly Manning will not face any liability or punishment. Manning Inc. will not allow it. His brother literally rubbed his balls on a trainers head and the public barely batted a lash.
It will be a pain in the ass for the team. There's a good chance Mara gets called to tesitfy. Hopefully it doesn't drag into the season.
Judging someone a loser because they buy memorabilia is a bit much. If I bought my nephew or dad something as a gift, I'd definitely like it to be the market rate, not a make a believe premium. If I spent more on something because I wanted something more special and it wasn't, I'd definitely feel like a loser.
The issue is somewhere between the Giants, the equipment guys, Manning, and the dealer, every day people might have been ripped off.
I believe pretty certainly Manning will not face any liability or punishment. Manning Inc. will not allow it. His brother literally rubbed his balls on a trainers head and the public barely batted a lash.
It will be a pain in the ass for the team. There's a good chance Mara gets called to tesitfy. Hopefully it doesn't drag into the season.
I don't think it will be a pain in the ass for the team. Only one person of importance to the team is involved and his involvement will likely be limited to one day of testimony. Any inconvenience to Mara or skiba won't matter to the product on the field.
Whats the alternative explanation for Eli sending an email asking for “two jerseys that can pass as game used”. Red handed.
Come on now. Was he hacked? Or do you buy his bs explanation that “pass as game used” was just another way of asking for legitimately game worn jerseys? This is “the definition of is is” territory. Please dont be this naive, youre better than that i think
It wasn't jerseys that manning referred to in the email, it was helmets and considering that helmets (especially on a quarterback) may not have scuffs or marks on it, I can see the context of the text.
Whats the alternative explanation for Eli sending an email asking for “two jerseys that can pass as game used”. Red handed.
Come on now. Was he hacked? Or do you buy his bs explanation that “pass as game used” was just another way of asking for legitimately game worn jerseys? This is “the definition of is is” territory. Please dont be this naive, youre better than that i think
It wasn't jerseys that manning referred to in the email, it was helmets and considering that helmets (especially on a quarterback) may not have scuffs or marks on it, I can see the context of the text.
So its helmets. Fine. Youre asking for “helmets that can *pass* as game worn” and im supposed to believe you are innocent in all of this given the facts at hand? If you want to plug your ears and just say “lalalalalala i cant hear you!” with regards to this story thats one thing. But please dont actively try and sell this line of bullshit to adults, because its insulting. There is no explanation other than he was involved
Because thats all he can say. Ive never heard another context for “give me something that can pass as x” unless it wasnt “x”. Its a major stretch to invent any other context for it. He wanted something that “can pass for” the real thing. Anyone who tries to deny that will never be convinced by anything. Thats as red handed as it gets
Next time i go to the diner im gonna ask for something that “can pass as chicken breast”
1. I'm a huge Eli fan, but I think it's misguided to shit on the memorabilia industry in general, or to disregard it because of personal opinions about memorabilia. If the items were fraudulently misrepresented as official and game-worn, and they weren't, then some poor fans were cheated out of money. Between insane ticket prices, concession prices, PSLs, threats of blackout... fans are paying out the nose to support the league and teams they love. It's a slap in the face if the dedicated fans who wanted a piece of "game used" items to have in their homes paid a premium for them and found out that they were not "game used" and that the well-funded team and players were intentionally lying so that they didn't have to part with the valuable items.
I've said this before, but Eli's "2 helmets that can pass as game used" is not clear enough to ascertain guilt. Could it mean that Eli was aware that the helmets were not game used? Sure. That is certainly a way of interpreting the text. But when used colloquially, "pass as" is a contronym (i.e. can have contradictory meanings, like "oversight," "fine," or "sanction").
In this case, "pass as" could mean "fool" in that the helmet wasn't game-worn but Eli thought perhaps it could fool the collector into thinking it was the real thing. That is the way many are interpreting it and it's quite possible that this was how Eli meant it.
But "pass as" could also mean "considered acceptable enough." If the helmet were game-worn but didn't have any nicks or marks on it, would the collector accept it?
If you went to a club that checked ID, and you brought a student ID card or an expired driver's license, you might nont get into the club because they wouldn't "pass as" ID. It doesn't mean those IDs are fake, only that the bar won't accept them.
I've said this before, but Eli's "2 helmets that can pass as game used" is not clear enough to ascertain guilt. Could it mean that Eli was aware that the helmets were not game used? Sure. That is certainly a way of interpreting the text. But when used colloquially, "pass as" is a contronym (i.e. can have contradictory meanings, like "oversight," "fine," or "sanction").
In this case, "pass as" could mean "fool" in that the helmet wasn't game-worn but Eli thought perhaps it could fool the collector into thinking it was the real thing. That is the way many are interpreting it and it's quite possible that this was how Eli meant it.
But "pass as" could also mean "considered acceptable enough." If the helmet were game-worn but didn't have any nicks or marks on it, would the collector accept it?
If you went to a club that checked ID, and you brought a student ID card or an expired driver's license, you might nont get into the club because they wouldn't "pass as" ID. It doesn't mean those IDs are fake, only that the bar won't accept them.
Thank you, that is exactly my point. The context of the email could have different intentions.
An example would be if Eli started a game with one helmet and used it in the first series to which they went 3 and out. 2 run plays and a quick incomplete pass. There was a problem with the communication in the helmet and it was switched with another helmet.
Well, technically the first helmet was "game worn", but would it pass the requirements for being game worn.
I don't know the technicalities of all of this and I am certainly no expert on civil cases, but imo there needs to be a whole lot more than just a vague email to find wrongdoing. Some pattern of deception.
If Eli is truly guilty, then there would be more of a trail to follow. E-mails, communications, money and other disgruntled memorabilia dealers that link Eli as doing deceptive dealings.
Perhaps it will all come out in a trial. So far we have only seen and heard one side.
I guess ive only known one context for “pass as”. If youre single and im trying to hook you up with someone and say “i know this one person, beautiful, they can pass as a woman.” I think your interest level might fall a bit.
I do think alternative explanations are even tougher now that we know the memorabilia was indeed fraudulent. (Or do we know that? Is that admitted and eli is just claiming ignorance? Or do they actually hold to the story that the helmet is legit?)
Either way nothing is more distasteful than trying to minimize the potential fraud by just painting the victims as losers. And who is doing that? People who post ten times a day on an internet forum? Im
Sure people would judge you a certain way too. Im not a memorabilia guy. Dont collect cards, clothing, autographs, havent worn a jersey since high school. But people are into this, and these people should be afforded the same respect and protections as any other consumer. If they spend hard earned money on goods they deserve to get what they believe they are paying for. I dont care if you think they are lame for wanting another dudes clothing
I guess ive only known one context for “pass as”. If youre single and im trying to hook you up with someone and say “i know this one person, beautiful, they can pass as a woman.” I think your interest level might fall a bit.
I do think alternative explanations are even tougher now that we know the memorabilia was indeed fraudulent. (Or do we know that? Is that admitted and eli is just claiming ignorance? Or do they actually hold to the story that the helmet is legit?)
Either way nothing is more distasteful than trying to minimize the potential fraud by just painting the victims as losers. And who is doing that? People who post ten times a day on an internet forum? Im
Sure people would judge you a certain way too. Im not a memorabilia guy. Dont collect cards, clothing, autographs, havent worn a jersey since high school. But people are into this, and these people should be afforded the same respect and protections as any other consumer. If they spend hard earned money on goods they deserve to get what they believe they are paying for. I dont care if you think they are lame for wanting another dudes clothing
I completely agree with your last paragraph, which I think is a wholly separate issue as to whether Eli participated in a fraud scheme.
We just disagree on how "pass as" can be interpreted. I would not want to be set up with the person you described as being able to pass as a woman.
But I do think there is a viable alternative interpretation of "pass as" in the memorabilia context and in a similar way to the examples I used earlier.
At this point, it only makes sense to wait and see for more evidence and context to come out as the litigation ensues.
But if I hear someone say "Can X pass for game worn?", I take that as an indication that the gear in question is NOT game worn but might appear as though it were.
But if I hear someone say "Can X pass for game worn?", I take that as an indication that the gear in question is NOT game worn but might appear as though it were.
There is so much we don't know.
Are helmets worn in a game separated in some fashion from helmets worn in practice that were never worn in a game?
If the actual facts are: Helmets worn in a game are immediately set aside with the date and game in question. And that the equipment manager has a greater supply of game helmets than demand (something I tend to doubt, but let's go with this).... then Eli's phrasing "... pass as game worn" might mean: I was telling the equipment manager to make sure that the helmet he grabs from the game pile has some evidence of having been in a game - nicks and so forth - I don't take many hits and many of my helmets come out of games with no indication they were even in a game - so it isn't enough just to take them from the "game pile", I was telling him to be sure he grabbed one with some nicks, etc.
On the other hand, if no effort is made in any way to separate out helmets worn in a game, then his wording becomes pretty irrelevant because it is now clear that there isn't any way to determine if a particular helmet was ever actually worn in any game (or just practices). If that is the case, then Manning had no business signing any Certification promising that a particular helmet was, in fact, worn in an actual game.
Before I could assess the meaning of that phrase, I would need some context of how this all worked. The process. Then the phrase would either make sense - or it wouldn't.
But if I hear someone say "Can X pass for game worn?", I take that as an indication that the gear in question is NOT game worn but might appear as though it were.
There is so much we don't know.
Are helmets worn in a game separated in some fashion from helmets worn in practice that were never worn in a game?
If the actual facts are: Helmets worn in a game are immediately set aside with the date and game in question. And that the equipment manager has a greater supply of game helmets than demand (something I tend to doubt, but let's go with this).... then Eli's phrasing "... pass as game worn" might mean: I was telling the equipment manager to make sure that the helmet he grabs from the game pile has some evidence of having been in a game - nicks and so forth - I don't take many hits and many of my helmets come out of games with no indication they were even in a game - so it isn't enough just to take them from the "game pile", I was telling him to be sure he grabbed one with some nicks, etc.
On the other hand, if no effort is made in any way to separate out helmets worn in a game, then his wording becomes pretty irrelevant because it is now clear that there isn't any way to determine if a particular helmet was ever actually worn in any game (or just practices). If that is the case, then Manning had no business signing any Certification promising that a particular helmet was, in fact, worn in an actual game.
Before I could assess the meaning of that phrase, I would need some context of how this all worked. The process. Then the phrase would either make sense - or it wouldn't.
Or you could just apply Occam's Razor. Tomato tomahto.
Manning has settled the memorabilia fraud lawsuit that had been scheduled to begin today, a league source tells PFT.
At the last minute the trial did not start today because of a death in the family of one of the attorneys, but now there will be no trial, as Manning and the plaintiffs have agreed to a settlement.
Manning was accused of fraudulently passing off memorabilia as game-worn even though he hadn’t worn it in a game. At the center of the dispute were messages from Manning to a team equipment manager asking for helmets “that can pass as game used.”
The plaintiffs said they were duped by Manning into paying for “game-used” items that weren’t actually used in games. Now that issue will not go before a jury, and Manning has put it behind him.
Great, the Mannings have taken to killing the family members Â
The shame of it is this is all so stupid and memorabilia beyond what you collect through your own experiences seems cheap and fake anyway.
By the way, did the Giants finally fire the sleazy equipment managers that dragged Eli into this mess? Last I heard they were suspended for a year or two or some such slap on the wrist.
The charges against Skiba were dropped (I think at the same time Eli’s case was set to go to trial). Doesn’t make sense to me, either.
What I want to know - and it's in no way to excuse Eli - is how widespread something like this is. Is this the norm around the NFL (or sports in general), where merchandise gets artificially 'game worn'? Or is this some combination of the equipment managers, Eli, and the Giants conspiring to make an extra buck?
I understand what he is asking.....he can't use a game worn helmet that has no dings.....he needs one with dings.
Quote:
Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.
The charges against Skiba were dropped (I think at the same time Eli’s case was set to go to trial). Doesn’t make sense to me, either.
It is a civil court case. There is no money in Skiba. Eli has deeper pockets. If there was some grand conspiracy to commit fraud and it is such a slam dunk, you have to wonder why the Giants organization wasn't named as a defendant in the case.
For a civil finding? Doubt it.
Does it have anything to do with this site?
It will majorly suck if testimony interferes with the game schedule.
I'll be shocked if he's liable, but what a stupid annoyance. Especially when Mara has to take the stand.
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Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.
The charges against Skiba were dropped (I think at the same time Eli’s case was set to go to trial). Doesn’t make sense to me, either.
It is a civil court case. There is no money in Skiba. Eli has deeper pockets. If there was some grand conspiracy to commit fraud and it is such a slam dunk, you have to wonder why the Giants organization wasn't named as a defendant in the case.
By the way, did the Giants finally fire the sleazy equipment managers that dragged Eli into this mess? Last I heard they were suspended for a year or two or some such slap on the wrist.
Skiba is still the equipment manager. I think it was about a year or so ago when Brandon Jacobs came out and said Skiba had stolen and sold his game-worn Super Bowl gear and given Jacobs fakes. Definitely something shady going on there, and kind of eye opening that Skiba is still there. Makes me think he knows some stuff that the Giants don't want to get out.
Unless Eli can prove, how IDK, that he was totally unaware of Skiba et. al. we're gaming equipment as game worn/,used,he will get at least 4 because it black-,eyes the NFL across the league especially if an 'everybody does it's comment comes out. Yes, it's not beating a woman, doing PEDs, or ball deflating, but the league is PR sensitive with the kneeling, CTE, and conspiracy vs. Colin and EReid situations.
Rogah will make an example out of Eli as a warning to stop others from (continuing to) doing so.
The shame of it is this is all so stupid and memorabilia beyond what you collect through your own experiences seems cheap and fake anyway.
This is civil, not criminal . Eli isn’t guilty; he’s liable. But of course it’s not his fault . It never is .
I understand what he is asking.....he can't use a game worn helmet that has no dings.....he needs one with dings.
That's how I read it as well. Pass as game used can mean "get me equipment that passes the contractual standards" not necessarily "doctor equipment to pass as game used"
Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.
The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
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What a sensational headline, a slam dunk! But, alas, it’s utter and complete horse hockey. I’m hardly impartial but in what world does it make any sense that Eli Manning would be mixed up with some sleazy memorabilia fraud? Makes zero sense.
By the way, did the Giants finally fire the sleazy equipment managers that dragged Eli into this mess? Last I heard they were suspended for a year or two or some such slap on the wrist.
Skiba is still the equipment manager. I think it was about a year or so ago when Brandon Jacobs came out and said Skiba had stolen and sold his game-worn Super Bowl gear and given Jacobs fakes. Definitely something shady going on there, and kind of eye opening that Skiba is still there. Makes me think he knows some stuff that the Giants don't want to get out.
And apparently he and Quinn are lovers.
Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.
The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
This is how I feel. It doesn't feel like something Eli would be involved in, but then again, we don't really know these guys. Eli's always seemed like a classy guy, but I've never actually spent time with him.
Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.
The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
I agree, but how many times have we seen the type of thing with guys we thought were squeaky clean, and it turned out we didn't know them as well as we thought?
I'm hoping it's only a shakedown, and the only reason they didn't settle was because they feel they'll be vindicated in the end, but you never know.
It will majorly suck if testimony interferes with the game schedule.
I'll be shocked if he's liable, but what a stupid annoyance. Especially when Mara has to take the stand.
It's a civil case - preponderance of evidence is not really a difficult burden of proof.
Here's the quote from that attorney.
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he probably will fumble the testimony.
Ahhhv yes this turd has to make an appearance
Like a fly buzzing around a pile of shit
Eli made a mistake along with others involved unfortunately.
Maybe Webb gets his chance earlier? lol jk
for one, it's probably a hassle that is very low on the priority list and #2, memorabilia dealers are awful sleazy used car salesman and #3 many consumers (no offense to the people who read this that enjoy game used jerseys, helmets, etc) are losers.
IMO this is on the Giants and the equipment staff, they should really keep Eli (and other players) shielded from this and handle it (the game used shit at least, not the autographed stuff) on their own without inconveniencing the players.
the players have so much stuff to worry about with game preparation why not throw another thing in there with worrying about games used equipment.
but..if Eli gets caught being complicit in this he should absolutely pay a price.
Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.
The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
Well said. I'm giving Eli a full pass and benefit of the doubt for now
Brandon Jacobs would feel really upset if that was the case , he's one of the plaintiffs I believe
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Whole thing still just seems so out of character for Eli, and it's not like he needs the money. I just don't understand what his motivation would be here or why he'd ever even be involved.
Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.
The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
Well said. I'm giving Eli a full pass and benefit of the doubt for now
Brandon Jacobs would feel really upset if that was the case , he's one of the plaintiffs I believe
If Jacobs (and was it also Strahan?) are correct and this is also true, how does the training staff remain employed. It is far more likely that these are the guys perpetrating fraud than someone who's earned over $100M.
This seems very “special prosecutor” like. Misrepresent what he meant then hold him responsible for casually saying it in a less articulate fashion than say a pole up his ass lawyer would.
for one, it's probably a hassle that is very low on the priority list and #2, memorabilia dealers are awful sleazy used car salesman and #3 many consumers (no offense to the people who read this that enjoy game used jerseys, helmets, etc) are losers.
IMO this is on the Giants and the equipment staff, they should really keep Eli (and other players) shielded from this and handle it (the game used shit at least, not the autographed stuff) on their own without inconveniencing the players.
the players have so much stuff to worry about with game preparation why not throw another thing in there with worrying about games used equipment.
but..if Eli gets caught being complicit in this he should absolutely pay a price.
This looks like mostly a response to my post, though it isn't addressed directly.
I would certainly be surprised if Eli Manning was knowingly committing fraud, yes. I don't think that's crazy. The guy has been here 15 years and although fans don't know him personally, I think it's fair to say we've got a pretty good feel for his character - and this would be very much out of it for him. Maybe I'm naive, but that's how I feel.
The whole thing just doesn't add up. I'm inclined to think he wasn't fully aware of what was going on, but we'll see.
NFL knows damn well that every single team sells phony
"game used" jerseys and helmets just like the Giants do.
The Giants didn't invent this, it's a league-wide epidemic.
You're right that none of us knows Eli (probably), but I guess I just expect the worst and with something like this I can definitely see him (or any athlete that has to deal with grown men hounding them for used cleats, gloves, jerseys or autographs, etc. - that they're probably going to sell for a profit) having contempt for those mostly loathsome creatures and 100% knowingly not give a shit if what they're saying was game used actually isn't game used.
I just don't hold Eli or any other athlete up to a standard that is beyond reproach.
And I'm not judging him if he did knowingly do it, I don't really give a shit, I kind of think he's doing god's work ripping off these sleaze bags, but the league will absolutely punish him if he's found liable and it definitely wouldn't shock me if he is.
I hope he's not, but view it from the lens of non-Giants fans. Most are convinced given the reported details he definitely did it knowingly.
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find it hard to believe Eli would be involved in this. It has nothing to do with how much money he has.
for one, it's probably a hassle that is very low on the priority list and #2, memorabilia dealers are awful sleazy used car salesman and #3 many consumers (no offense to the people who read this that enjoy game used jerseys, helmets, etc) are losers.
IMO this is on the Giants and the equipment staff, they should really keep Eli (and other players) shielded from this and handle it (the game used shit at least, not the autographed stuff) on their own without inconveniencing the players.
the players have so much stuff to worry about with game preparation why not throw another thing in there with worrying about games used equipment.
but..if Eli gets caught being complicit in this he should absolutely pay a price.
This looks like mostly a response to my post, though it isn't addressed directly.
I would certainly be surprised if Eli Manning was knowingly committing fraud, yes. I don't think that's crazy. The guy has been here 15 years and although fans don't know him personally, I think it's fair to say we've got a pretty good feel for his character - and this would be very much out of it for him. Maybe I'm naive, but that's how I feel.
The whole thing just doesn't add up. I'm inclined to think he wasn't fully aware of what was going on, but we'll see.
I have a hard time accepting that Eli would actively try to screw over a fan or even just a business partner or collector. That said, I also believe that the Mannings separate finances from emotion in general, as a course of doing business.
I think, if this was a criminal case, Eli would walk for lack of scienter. That it's a civil suit, with intent absent from the calculus, is important to keep in mind.
I hope that Eli's good name is cleared, but I don't share the view of others that it's impossible to imagine him participating in this scheme. I just think that if he did, it was with a lack of consideration for how disappointing it would be to buy something that "can pass" for what someone thought they were buying. I suspect that if he bears any culpability, it's because he only considered the relationship between himself and Steiner, not beyond.
Bottom line is this doesnt look good for Eli one bit. Are there worse transgressions? Sure. But the rush to absolve him and the collective “say it aint so!” is more than a little weird. None of you know Eli. For some of you to think you do based on merely observing his public persona for a bit is naive.
That’s not even funny you cum dumpster
How does game worm stuff get validated?
I would just be really surprised - even after admitting that I wouldn't necessarily rule anything out for anyone.
I definitely think IF he was involved, it was with a lack of complete knowledge of the situation. That would seem to be the most likely scenario. And if that's the case, it really wouldn't change my opinion of him at all.
The only thing that would really disappoint me here would be if Eli was fully aware of what was going on and was playing an active role in it. So, hopefully that won't be the case when all of the info finds its way out.
Come on now. Was he hacked? Or do you buy his bs explanation that “pass as game used” was just another way of asking for legitimately game worn jerseys? This is “the definition of is is” territory. Please dont be this naive, youre better than that i think
The issue is somewhere between the Giants, the equipment guys, Manning, and the dealer, every day people might have been ripped off.
I believe pretty certainly Manning will not face any liability or punishment. Manning Inc. will not allow it. His brother literally rubbed his balls on a trainers head and the public barely batted a lash.
It will be a pain in the ass for the team. There's a good chance Mara gets called to tesitfy. Hopefully it doesn't drag into the season.
The issue is somewhere between the Giants, the equipment guys, Manning, and the dealer, every day people might have been ripped off.
I believe pretty certainly Manning will not face any liability or punishment. Manning Inc. will not allow it. His brother literally rubbed his balls on a trainers head and the public barely batted a lash.
It will be a pain in the ass for the team. There's a good chance Mara gets called to tesitfy. Hopefully it doesn't drag into the season.
I don't think it will be a pain in the ass for the team. Only one person of importance to the team is involved and his involvement will likely be limited to one day of testimony. Any inconvenience to Mara or skiba won't matter to the product on the field.
If Manning has to miss practice or rearrange travel during a road week, that would qualify as a major pain in the ass.
Come on now. Was he hacked? Or do you buy his bs explanation that “pass as game used” was just another way of asking for legitimately game worn jerseys? This is “the definition of is is” territory. Please dont be this naive, youre better than that i think
It wasn't jerseys that manning referred to in the email, it was helmets and considering that helmets (especially on a quarterback) may not have scuffs or marks on it, I can see the context of the text.
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Whats the alternative explanation for Eli sending an email asking for “two jerseys that can pass as game used”. Red handed.
Come on now. Was he hacked? Or do you buy his bs explanation that “pass as game used” was just another way of asking for legitimately game worn jerseys? This is “the definition of is is” territory. Please dont be this naive, youre better than that i think
It wasn't jerseys that manning referred to in the email, it was helmets and considering that helmets (especially on a quarterback) may not have scuffs or marks on it, I can see the context of the text.
So its helmets. Fine. Youre asking for “helmets that can *pass* as game worn” and im supposed to believe you are innocent in all of this given the facts at hand? If you want to plug your ears and just say “lalalalalala i cant hear you!” with regards to this story thats one thing. But please dont actively try and sell this line of bullshit to adults, because its insulting. There is no explanation other than he was involved
The more interesting context is Skiba when he wrote: "I'll tell the whole f------ world the truth." That doesn't sound very comforting.
Next time i go to the diner im gonna ask for something that “can pass as chicken breast”
At this point one really needs to have their head in the sand and willfully trying not to believe it if they cant see whats going on.
In this case, "pass as" could mean "fool" in that the helmet wasn't game-worn but Eli thought perhaps it could fool the collector into thinking it was the real thing. That is the way many are interpreting it and it's quite possible that this was how Eli meant it.
But "pass as" could also mean "considered acceptable enough." If the helmet were game-worn but didn't have any nicks or marks on it, would the collector accept it?
If you went to a club that checked ID, and you brought a student ID card or an expired driver's license, you might nont get into the club because they wouldn't "pass as" ID. It doesn't mean those IDs are fake, only that the bar won't accept them.
That may be why he's still fighting, but any decent lawyer would create an opportunity for a sealed settlement.
Its just a question of how much he pays.
In this case, "pass as" could mean "fool" in that the helmet wasn't game-worn but Eli thought perhaps it could fool the collector into thinking it was the real thing. That is the way many are interpreting it and it's quite possible that this was how Eli meant it.
But "pass as" could also mean "considered acceptable enough." If the helmet were game-worn but didn't have any nicks or marks on it, would the collector accept it?
If you went to a club that checked ID, and you brought a student ID card or an expired driver's license, you might nont get into the club because they wouldn't "pass as" ID. It doesn't mean those IDs are fake, only that the bar won't accept them.
Thank you, that is exactly my point. The context of the email could have different intentions.
An example would be if Eli started a game with one helmet and used it in the first series to which they went 3 and out. 2 run plays and a quick incomplete pass. There was a problem with the communication in the helmet and it was switched with another helmet.
Well, technically the first helmet was "game worn", but would it pass the requirements for being game worn.
I don't know the technicalities of all of this and I am certainly no expert on civil cases, but imo there needs to be a whole lot more than just a vague email to find wrongdoing. Some pattern of deception.
If Eli is truly guilty, then there would be more of a trail to follow. E-mails, communications, money and other disgruntled memorabilia dealers that link Eli as doing deceptive dealings.
Perhaps it will all come out in a trial. So far we have only seen and heard one side.
I do think alternative explanations are even tougher now that we know the memorabilia was indeed fraudulent. (Or do we know that? Is that admitted and eli is just claiming ignorance? Or do they actually hold to the story that the helmet is legit?)
Either way nothing is more distasteful than trying to minimize the potential fraud by just painting the victims as losers. And who is doing that? People who post ten times a day on an internet forum? Im
Sure people would judge you a certain way too. Im not a memorabilia guy. Dont collect cards, clothing, autographs, havent worn a jersey since high school. But people are into this, and these people should be afforded the same respect and protections as any other consumer. If they spend hard earned money on goods they deserve to get what they believe they are paying for. I dont care if you think they are lame for wanting another dudes clothing
Easy answer....IT DOESN'T!
This whole authentication thing is a complete scam.
I do think alternative explanations are even tougher now that we know the memorabilia was indeed fraudulent. (Or do we know that? Is that admitted and eli is just claiming ignorance? Or do they actually hold to the story that the helmet is legit?)
Either way nothing is more distasteful than trying to minimize the potential fraud by just painting the victims as losers. And who is doing that? People who post ten times a day on an internet forum? Im
Sure people would judge you a certain way too. Im not a memorabilia guy. Dont collect cards, clothing, autographs, havent worn a jersey since high school. But people are into this, and these people should be afforded the same respect and protections as any other consumer. If they spend hard earned money on goods they deserve to get what they believe they are paying for. I dont care if you think they are lame for wanting another dudes clothing
I completely agree with your last paragraph, which I think is a wholly separate issue as to whether Eli participated in a fraud scheme.
We just disagree on how "pass as" can be interpreted. I would not want to be set up with the person you described as being able to pass as a woman.
But I do think there is a viable alternative interpretation of "pass as" in the memorabilia context and in a similar way to the examples I used earlier.
At this point, it only makes sense to wait and see for more evidence and context to come out as the litigation ensues.
There is so much we don't know.
Are helmets worn in a game separated in some fashion from helmets worn in practice that were never worn in a game?
If the actual facts are: Helmets worn in a game are immediately set aside with the date and game in question. And that the equipment manager has a greater supply of game helmets than demand (something I tend to doubt, but let's go with this).... then Eli's phrasing "... pass as game worn" might mean: I was telling the equipment manager to make sure that the helmet he grabs from the game pile has some evidence of having been in a game - nicks and so forth - I don't take many hits and many of my helmets come out of games with no indication they were even in a game - so it isn't enough just to take them from the "game pile", I was telling him to be sure he grabbed one with some nicks, etc.
On the other hand, if no effort is made in any way to separate out helmets worn in a game, then his wording becomes pretty irrelevant because it is now clear that there isn't any way to determine if a particular helmet was ever actually worn in any game (or just practices). If that is the case, then Manning had no business signing any Certification promising that a particular helmet was, in fact, worn in an actual game.
Before I could assess the meaning of that phrase, I would need some context of how this all worked. The process. Then the phrase would either make sense - or it wouldn't.
If there are more email, or worse yet one of the Skibas spills something more on Manning, things get interesting.
I'm on record that Manning is untouchable from the NFL and the national media.
But this is a league that suspended its most popular player for not being forthcoming with his text messages.
Purposely defrauding fans because the equipment boy wants to benifit from the real stuff himself, seems in that area to me if true.
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But if I hear someone say "Can X pass for game worn?", I take that as an indication that the gear in question is NOT game worn but might appear as though it were.
There is so much we don't know.
Are helmets worn in a game separated in some fashion from helmets worn in practice that were never worn in a game?
If the actual facts are: Helmets worn in a game are immediately set aside with the date and game in question. And that the equipment manager has a greater supply of game helmets than demand (something I tend to doubt, but let's go with this).... then Eli's phrasing "... pass as game worn" might mean: I was telling the equipment manager to make sure that the helmet he grabs from the game pile has some evidence of having been in a game - nicks and so forth - I don't take many hits and many of my helmets come out of games with no indication they were even in a game - so it isn't enough just to take them from the "game pile", I was telling him to be sure he grabbed one with some nicks, etc.
On the other hand, if no effort is made in any way to separate out helmets worn in a game, then his wording becomes pretty irrelevant because it is now clear that there isn't any way to determine if a particular helmet was ever actually worn in any game (or just practices). If that is the case, then Manning had no business signing any Certification promising that a particular helmet was, in fact, worn in an actual game.
Before I could assess the meaning of that phrase, I would need some context of how this all worked. The process. Then the phrase would either make sense - or it wouldn't.
Or you could just apply Occam's Razor. Tomato tomahto.
At the last minute the trial did not start today because of a death in the family of one of the attorneys, but now there will be no trial, as Manning and the plaintiffs have agreed to a settlement.
Manning was accused of fraudulently passing off memorabilia as game-worn even though he hadn’t worn it in a game. At the center of the dispute were messages from Manning to a team equipment manager asking for helmets “that can pass as game used.”
The plaintiffs said they were duped by Manning into paying for “game-used” items that weren’t actually used in games. Now that issue will not go before a jury, and Manning has put it behind him.