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Fraud case against Eli a “slam dunk”

exiled : 5/11/2018 8:53 pm
according to lawyers not affiliated with the case. If it’s determined he committed fraud, what do you think the league’s punishment will be?

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💤💤💤💤💤  
BigBlue4You09 : 5/11/2018 8:55 pm : link
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Not that this is good for Eli  
Chris684 : 5/11/2018 8:58 pm : link
But all along this has sounded to me like Giants are more at fault here. Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.

The shame of it is this is all so stupid and memorabilia beyond what you collect through your own experiences seems cheap and fake anyway.

suspension  
pjcas18 : 5/11/2018 8:59 pm : link
.
Not guilty  
trueblueinpw : 5/11/2018 9:15 pm : link
What a sensational headline, a slam dunk! But, alas, it’s utter and complete horse hockey. I’m hardly impartial but in what world does it make any sense that Eli Manning would be mixed up with some sleazy memorabilia fraud? Makes zero sense.

By the way, did the Giants finally fire the sleazy equipment managers that dragged Eli into this mess? Last I heard they were suspended for a year or two or some such slap on the wrist.
RE: Not that this is good for Eli  
exiled : 5/11/2018 9:17 pm : link
Quote:
Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.

The charges against Skiba were dropped (I think at the same time Eli’s case was set to go to trial). Doesn’t make sense to me, either.
I think there's no way around it, a guilty verdict  
jcn56 : 5/11/2018 9:18 pm : link
would have to include some suspension.

What I want to know - and it's in no way to excuse Eli - is how widespread something like this is. Is this the norm around the NFL (or sports in general), where merchandise gets artificially 'game worn'? Or is this some combination of the equipment managers, Eli, and the Giants conspiring to make an extra buck?
Why is it a slam dunk?  
George from PA : 5/11/2018 9:19 pm : link
That email?

I understand what he is asking.....he can't use a game worn helmet that has no dings.....he needs one with dings.

RE: RE: Not that this is good for Eli  
Diver_Down : 5/11/2018 9:25 pm : link
In comment 13961488 exiled said:
Quote:


Quote:


Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.



The charges against Skiba were dropped (I think at the same time Eli’s case was set to go to trial). Doesn’t make sense to me, either.


It is a civil court case. There is no money in Skiba. Eli has deeper pockets. If there was some grand conspiracy to commit fraud and it is such a slam dunk, you have to wonder why the Giants organization wasn't named as a defendant in the case.
Eli allegedly signed a letter  
exiled : 5/11/2018 9:36 pm : link
that a helmet was game used. It’s really hard to imagine Eli knowingly scamming anyone, but it sounds pretty bad for him.
RE: suspension  
FStubbs : 5/11/2018 9:37 pm : link
In comment 13961481 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
.


For a civil finding? Doubt it.
Let me guess how you got your username  
mack809f : 5/11/2018 9:45 pm : link
In comment 13961511 exiled said:
Quote:
that a helmet was game used. It’s really hard to imagine Eli knowingly scamming anyone, but it sounds pretty bad for him.


Does it have anything to do with this site?
Until Eli's lawyers offer a defense at trial  
steve in ky : 5/11/2018 9:45 pm : link
I don't know how anyone, "expert" or otherwise, can say with any certainty that anything is a slam dunk.
...  
christian : 5/11/2018 10:01 pm : link
The burden of proof in this type of suit is hard to reach. The downside is the trial will likely extend into the season.

It will majorly suck if testimony interferes with the game schedule.

I'll be shocked if he's liable, but what a stupid annoyance. Especially when Mara has to take the stand.
The key thing written  
dep026 : 5/11/2018 10:05 pm : link
Is a settlement is still play. Pay these people a couple bills. Give them some real memorabilia and put this thing away.
RE: RE: RE: Not that this is good for Eli  
Les in TO : 5/11/2018 10:06 pm : link
In comment 13961499 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13961488 exiled said:


Quote:




Quote:


Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.



The charges against Skiba were dropped (I think at the same time Eli’s case was set to go to trial). Doesn’t make sense to me, either.



It is a civil court case. There is no money in Skiba. Eli has deeper pockets. If there was some grand conspiracy to commit fraud and it is such a slam dunk, you have to wonder why the Giants organization wasn't named as a defendant in the case.
the Giants and John Mara were named as defendants.
RE: Not guilty  
SimpleMan : 5/11/2018 10:08 pm : link
In comment 13961487 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
What a sensational headline, a slam dunk! But, alas, it’s utter and complete horse hockey. I’m hardly impartial but in what world does it make any sense that Eli Manning would be mixed up with some sleazy memorabilia fraud? Makes zero sense.

By the way, did the Giants finally fire the sleazy equipment managers that dragged Eli into this mess? Last I heard they were suspended for a year or two or some such slap on the wrist.


Skiba is still the equipment manager. I think it was about a year or so ago when Brandon Jacobs came out and said Skiba had stolen and sold his game-worn Super Bowl gear and given Jacobs fakes. Definitely something shady going on there, and kind of eye opening that Skiba is still there. Makes me think he knows some stuff that the Giants don't want to get out.
Eli',s deposition comment  
old man : 5/11/2018 10:16 pm : link
Seems a reasonable explanation; and, as someone mentioned about the helmet ,it should have a ding or 2 sounds reasonable to further explain the poorly phrased text that is the point of the negativity and the suit.
Unless Eli can prove, how IDK, that he was totally unaware of Skiba et. al. we're gaming equipment as game worn/,used,he will get at least 4 because it black-,eyes the NFL across the league especially if an 'everybody does it's comment comes out. Yes, it's not beating a woman, doing PEDs, or ball deflating, but the league is PR sensitive with the kneeling, CTE, and conspiracy vs. Colin and EReid situations.
Rogah will make an example out of Eli as a warning to stop others from (continuing to) doing so.
RE: Not that this is good for Eli  
RetroJint : 5/11/2018 10:26 pm : link
In comment 13961480 Chris684 said:
Quote:
But all along this has sounded to me like Giants are more at fault here. Unless I’m mistaken, the Giants (Skiba) had already come up with this method of trading out the real stuff or doctoring up stuff to make it look game used.

The shame of it is this is all so stupid and memorabilia beyond what you collect through your own experiences seems cheap and fake anyway.


This is civil, not criminal . Eli isn’t guilty; he’s liable. But of course it’s not his fault . It never is .
If it’s  
mattyblue : 5/11/2018 10:45 pm : link
shown Eli is liable, guilty, whatever you want to call it, he will be suspended. If the Giants are also implicated they could lose draft pick(s). I dunno if either will happen, but I think the Eli thing is kind of likely.
Why not just settle the thing before  
Rflairr : 5/11/2018 10:47 pm : link
it got this far. All the money he's made. Just settle the thing
RE: If it’s  
81_Great_Dane : 5/11/2018 11:04 pm : link
In comment 13961579 mattyblue said:
Quote:
shown Eli is liable, guilty, whatever you want to call it, he will be suspended. If the Giants are also implicated they could lose draft pick(s). I dunno if either will happen, but I think the Eli thing is kind of likely.
So we'll get that long-delayed look at Davis Webb -- and maybe the new kid.
RE: Why is it a slam dunk?  
Diversify yo bonds : 5/12/2018 2:28 am : link
In comment 13961492 George from PA said:
Quote:
That email?

I understand what he is asking.....he can't use a game worn helmet that has no dings.....he needs one with dings.


That's how I read it as well. Pass as game used can mean "get me equipment that passes the contractual standards" not necessarily "doctor equipment to pass as game used"
.  
arcarsenal : 5/12/2018 3:12 am : link
Whole thing still just seems so out of character for Eli, and it's not like he needs the money. I just don't understand what his motivation would be here or why he'd ever even be involved.

Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.

The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
RE: RE: Not guilty  
Jay in Toronto : 5/12/2018 5:20 am : link
In comment 13961554 SimpleMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13961487 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


What a sensational headline, a slam dunk! But, alas, it’s utter and complete horse hockey. I’m hardly impartial but in what world does it make any sense that Eli Manning would be mixed up with some sleazy memorabilia fraud? Makes zero sense.

By the way, did the Giants finally fire the sleazy equipment managers that dragged Eli into this mess? Last I heard they were suspended for a year or two or some such slap on the wrist.



Skiba is still the equipment manager. I think it was about a year or so ago when Brandon Jacobs came out and said Skiba had stolen and sold his game-worn Super Bowl gear and given Jacobs fakes. Definitely something shady going on there, and kind of eye opening that Skiba is still there. Makes me think he knows some stuff that the Giants don't want to get out.


And apparently he and Quinn are lovers.
RE: .  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/12/2018 6:45 am : link
In comment 13961613 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Whole thing still just seems so out of character for Eli, and it's not like he needs the money. I just don't understand what his motivation would be here or why he'd ever even be involved.

Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.

The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.


This is how I feel. It doesn't feel like something Eli would be involved in, but then again, we don't really know these guys. Eli's always seemed like a classy guy, but I've never actually spent time with him.
Davis  
XBRONX : 5/12/2018 6:51 am : link
Webb better be ready
RE: .  
jcn56 : 5/12/2018 7:28 am : link
In comment 13961613 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Whole thing still just seems so out of character for Eli, and it's not like he needs the money. I just don't understand what his motivation would be here or why he'd ever even be involved.

Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.

The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.


I agree, but how many times have we seen the type of thing with guys we thought were squeaky clean, and it turned out we didn't know them as well as we thought?

I'm hoping it's only a shakedown, and the only reason they didn't settle was because they feel they'll be vindicated in the end, but you never know.
RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/12/2018 8:55 am : link
In comment 13961543 christian said:
Quote:
The burden of proof in this type of suit is hard to reach. The downside is the trial will likely extend into the season.

It will majorly suck if testimony interferes with the game schedule.

I'll be shocked if he's liable, but what a stupid annoyance. Especially when Mara has to take the stand.

It's a civil case - preponderance of evidence is not really a difficult burden of proof.
Eli  
XBRONX : 5/12/2018 8:58 am : link
should have hired Michael Cohen.
I read the entire article.  
Ace718 : 5/12/2018 9:10 am : link
There was just one attorney quoted as saying it was a "slam dunk".

Here's the quote from that attorney.

Quote:
Michael Horn, a Hackensack-based attorney, said convincing a jury Manning violated the state’s consumer-friendly fraud act “should be a slam dunk” because attorneys only have to prove Manning was a part of the scheme.
Without passing on Eli's culpability, IMHO PSLs = NFL fraud on fans  
Marty in Albany : 5/12/2018 10:54 am : link
.
RE: RE: hope eli does not take the stand  
mfsd : 5/12/2018 10:58 am : link
In comment 13961645 Larry in Pencilvania said:
Quote:
In comment 13961628 sundayatone said:


Quote:


he probably will fumble the testimony.



Ahhhv yes this turd has to make an appearance


Like a fly buzzing around a pile of shit

if they take as a "strict" offense in nj  
micky : 5/12/2018 11:10 am : link
Then league may agree likewise as in a long suspension possibly

Eli made a mistake along with others involved unfortunately.

Maybe Webb gets his chance earlier? lol jk
not sure why people  
pjcas18 : 5/12/2018 11:36 am : link
find it hard to believe Eli would be involved in this. It has nothing to do with how much money he has.

for one, it's probably a hassle that is very low on the priority list and #2, memorabilia dealers are awful sleazy used car salesman and #3 many consumers (no offense to the people who read this that enjoy game used jerseys, helmets, etc) are losers.

IMO this is on the Giants and the equipment staff, they should really keep Eli (and other players) shielded from this and handle it (the game used shit at least, not the autographed stuff) on their own without inconveniencing the players.

the players have so much stuff to worry about with game preparation why not throw another thing in there with worrying about games used equipment.

but..if Eli gets caught being complicit in this he should absolutely pay a price.
RE: .  
DennyInDenville : 5/12/2018 11:58 am : link
In comment 13961613 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Whole thing still just seems so out of character for Eli, and it's not like he needs the money. I just don't understand what his motivation would be here or why he'd ever even be involved.

Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.

The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

Well said. I'm giving Eli a full pass and benefit of the doubt for now

Brandon Jacobs would feel really upset if that was the case , he's one of the plaintiffs I believe
RE: RE: .  
Matt M. : 5/12/2018 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13961752 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
In comment 13961613 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Whole thing still just seems so out of character for Eli, and it's not like he needs the money. I just don't understand what his motivation would be here or why he'd ever even be involved.

Very weird. But it doesn't seem like it's going away. I just really hope Eli wasn't knowingly playing a role in this.

The guy has had as clean a reputation as anyone who has ever played in this league - even more than his brother. It would be pretty fucking shitty if it turns out he had a significant hand in all of this. I still have a hard time even believing it.. I guess we'll see how it plays out.


Well said. I'm giving Eli a full pass and benefit of the doubt for now

Brandon Jacobs would feel really upset if that was the case , he's one of the plaintiffs I believe
Brandon Jacobs is a plaintiff?
My guess is Eli will come out clean  
Matt M. : 5/12/2018 2:20 pm : link
If anything, the Giants will be held liable. The claim will be Eli didn't know any,thing about it; he just relied on the team filling requests.
To be honest, it's much more plausible  
Matt M. : 5/12/2018 2:25 pm : link
that Eli's claim of not knowing is true. It is very likely he was just asked to sign the letters with someone telling him what it was for and him taking them at their word.

If Jacobs (and was it also Strahan?) are correct and this is also true, how does the training staff remain employed. It is far more likely that these are the guys perpetrating fraud than someone who's earned over $100M.
It's cute how lost people can be.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/12/2018 2:29 pm : link
.
RE: It's cute how lost people can be.  
Matt M. : 5/12/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13961844 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
.
Who is it you are talking about?
Read the thread, Denny.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/12/2018 2:31 pm : link
.
I think it’s a “slam dunk”...  
VinegarPeppers : 5/12/2018 3:11 pm : link
...Eli meant what he said, as in they can pass the CRITERIA for “game worn” DESIGNATION, as in “he wore them in a FRIGGEN game”.

This seems very “special prosecutor” like. Misrepresent what he meant then hold him responsible for casually saying it in a less articulate fashion than say a pole up his ass lawyer would.

RE: not sure why people  
arcarsenal : 5/12/2018 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13961731 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
find it hard to believe Eli would be involved in this. It has nothing to do with how much money he has.

for one, it's probably a hassle that is very low on the priority list and #2, memorabilia dealers are awful sleazy used car salesman and #3 many consumers (no offense to the people who read this that enjoy game used jerseys, helmets, etc) are losers.

IMO this is on the Giants and the equipment staff, they should really keep Eli (and other players) shielded from this and handle it (the game used shit at least, not the autographed stuff) on their own without inconveniencing the players.

the players have so much stuff to worry about with game preparation why not throw another thing in there with worrying about games used equipment.

but..if Eli gets caught being complicit in this he should absolutely pay a price.


This looks like mostly a response to my post, though it isn't addressed directly.

I would certainly be surprised if Eli Manning was knowingly committing fraud, yes. I don't think that's crazy. The guy has been here 15 years and although fans don't know him personally, I think it's fair to say we've got a pretty good feel for his character - and this would be very much out of it for him. Maybe I'm naive, but that's how I feel.

The whole thing just doesn't add up. I'm inclined to think he wasn't fully aware of what was going on, but we'll see.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/12/2018 3:17 pm : link
*almost 15 years...
The league response to this case will be interesting.  
Phil in Joisey : 5/12/2018 4:05 pm : link
They can't go hog wild on Eli or the Giants because the
NFL knows damn well that every single team sells phony
"game used" jerseys and helmets just like the Giants do.
The Giants didn't invent this, it's a league-wide epidemic.
Then lets expose this  
xman : 5/12/2018 5:01 pm : link
unlawful practice.
Arc  
pjcas18 : 5/12/2018 5:23 pm : link
not just you, a lot of people were steadfast that Eli wouldn't knowingly do this.

You're right that none of us knows Eli (probably), but I guess I just expect the worst and with something like this I can definitely see him (or any athlete that has to deal with grown men hounding them for used cleats, gloves, jerseys or autographs, etc. - that they're probably going to sell for a profit) having contempt for those mostly loathsome creatures and 100% knowingly not give a shit if what they're saying was game used actually isn't game used.

I just don't hold Eli or any other athlete up to a standard that is beyond reproach.

And I'm not judging him if he did knowingly do it, I don't really give a shit, I kind of think he's doing god's work ripping off these sleaze bags, but the league will absolutely punish him if he's found liable and it definitely wouldn't shock me if he is.

I hope he's not, but view it from the lens of non-Giants fans. Most are convinced given the reported details he definitely did it knowingly.

RE: RE: not sure why people  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/12/2018 10:47 pm : link
In comment 13961907 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13961731 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


find it hard to believe Eli would be involved in this. It has nothing to do with how much money he has.

for one, it's probably a hassle that is very low on the priority list and #2, memorabilia dealers are awful sleazy used car salesman and #3 many consumers (no offense to the people who read this that enjoy game used jerseys, helmets, etc) are losers.

IMO this is on the Giants and the equipment staff, they should really keep Eli (and other players) shielded from this and handle it (the game used shit at least, not the autographed stuff) on their own without inconveniencing the players.

the players have so much stuff to worry about with game preparation why not throw another thing in there with worrying about games used equipment.

but..if Eli gets caught being complicit in this he should absolutely pay a price.



This looks like mostly a response to my post, though it isn't addressed directly.

I would certainly be surprised if Eli Manning was knowingly committing fraud, yes. I don't think that's crazy. The guy has been here 15 years and although fans don't know him personally, I think it's fair to say we've got a pretty good feel for his character - and this would be very much out of it for him. Maybe I'm naive, but that's how I feel.

The whole thing just doesn't add up. I'm inclined to think he wasn't fully aware of what was going on, but we'll see.

I have a hard time accepting that Eli would actively try to screw over a fan or even just a business partner or collector. That said, I also believe that the Mannings separate finances from emotion in general, as a course of doing business.

I think, if this was a criminal case, Eli would walk for lack of scienter. That it's a civil suit, with intent absent from the calculus, is important to keep in mind.

I hope that Eli's good name is cleared, but I don't share the view of others that it's impossible to imagine him participating in this scheme. I just think that if he did, it was with a lack of consideration for how disappointing it would be to buy something that "can pass" for what someone thought they were buying. I suspect that if he bears any culpability, it's because he only considered the relationship between himself and Steiner, not beyond.
Im not a memorabilia guy  
LatHarv83 : 5/12/2018 11:07 pm : link
But people were deceived in this and thats all that matters. Writing them off as losers (from people that post several times daily on a football message board no less, something many others would find more than a little weird) doesnt change the fact that human beings were deceived when spending their money on goods. Thats all that matters

Bottom line is this doesnt look good for Eli one bit. Are there worse transgressions? Sure. But the rush to absolve him and the collective “say it aint so!” is more than a little weird. None of you know Eli. For some of you to think you do based on merely observing his public persona for a bit is naive.
RE: hope eli does not take the stand  
BigBlue4You09 : 5/13/2018 1:56 am : link
In comment 13961628 sundayatone said:
Quote:
he probably will fumble the testimony.


That’s not even funny you cum dumpster
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