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Flowers No sacks 14 game/ success born from adversity

Elite Mobster #32 : 5/14/2018 10:44 pm
What do you guys think about Flowers improvement? It looks like he is improving. I think he deserves credit for playing more consistent, based on his performance last year. He was durable and I don't recall him missing a play or being laid out on the field with an injury.

Surprisingly, he was the most consistent Lineman. Last year he demonstrated better leverage technique on the outside, didn't allow anyone to get inside of him. He even served up a couple of pancakes.

Most people have a long memory when it comes to Flowers for some reason. He did not get Eli killed last year.

The criticism and inconsistency was justified, when he was a 20 year rookie. He is now a starter with 3 seasons as a starter going into his 4th.

This off season, he retained a new agent, the Giants recognize Flowers numbers last season. If he duplicates that production, and he seems confident he can, he could suddenly be considered a superior Elite tackle in the NFL.

I'm waiting for some one like Anakim to retrieve his statistics from 2017.

The guy hasn't allowed a sack in 14 games, He is not the worst in the league. I pulling for him to become one of the best.


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He worked hard last off season  
bc4life : 5/15/2018 7:48 am : link
Sometimes it's a case of working smarter, not harder. That is, being in the weight room, agility drills versus working on the position specific skills needed, particularly the weaknesses. I was watching a Diehl eval of his play - one issue was finishing plays - playing up to (maybe a little after) the whistle. They showed several plays where his play wasn't too bad but he stopped when he thought play was done, not when play was over. Has also shown some problems getting hands and feet working together - wonder if he has an issue w/coordination?
Six sacks...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/15/2018 7:48 am : link
or none. Who is to hair split?

Flowers is mauler serving pancakes and sausages and not only did not sack let in last year, he was dominant the year entire. Show me stats otherwise!!

Problem one is Eli who keeps getting his receivers MANNINGED by high throws, terribly bad knowing that Flowers has walled off 6 defenders per play from the pockets.

You might say zero, but I say 6.

Run I will with the zeros sacks totals because it sounds much better than 6. Six is for eggs cartons, not slab of beef like Erickkk.He showed not up for camp because he was visiting honors societies to get awards for allowing zero sacks, while Eli throws way down in North Carolina and kept hitting Duke scoreboard, angers Coach Krystiociakakamdhged very much. MANNINGED Cameron Indoor!

I'm going to just make up zero until somebody shows me it isn't. Then you can find me in Latvian cafe at internet terminal.
What?  
Doomster : 5/15/2018 7:49 am : link
He can still be the starting LT
JohnB : 4:36 am : link : reply
But now he has someone breathing down his back to take over his position. Gettleman's job is to make the Giants a better team and he is doing that.


They have moved on from Flowers, as far as being a LT.....for a guy who is so big and "supposedly" mean, he is a candy ass in pass blocking.....the guy back peddles from the get go....I have never seen him attack a rusher and stop him dead in his tracks, in pass protection....and in the running game he was just as bad.....

The only reason he is still on this team is, we have question marks on the right side......they are hoping that he can play better at RG/RT.....and also, the fact that he has guaranteed money this year.....if he didn't, and he pulled the crap he just did, no doubt in my mind, he would have been cut....

Fact is, he is probably going to be an expensive, one year rental as a backup......because if he performs well as a RT, this is all on Reese, Mac, and especially Solari.....there is still a chance he might be a starter, and suck, if we have no one else......I am not convinced that Wheeler is the guy....

But if he does play RT, and he still has problems, I think Shurm has the sense, something Mac did not have, to put a TE on his side and help him with a chip block....
If you want to defend him that's fine  
GiantsRage2007 : 5/15/2018 7:53 am : link
But cherry picking stats only gets you so far in that defense before reality sets in...

Add in the holds (which are as good as a sack) and the dozens and dozens of broken plays that went for a loss or no gain or Eli had to run for his life, etc, etc...

He doesn't pass the eye test. Look at it objectively. Then compare him to other LT in the league.

None of us want to Giants to fail, putting him back out there is a step in that direction - it's hard to argue otherwise.

As for being the best of the bunch last year? A saying comes to mind... 'in the land of the blind, the one eye man is king".
LOL!  
dorgan : 5/15/2018 8:02 am : link
at the Fatman! You've gotten so good at that spiel that I can't tell if it's Peggy or memorex.
RE: He can still be the starting LT  
Klaatu : 5/15/2018 8:06 am : link
In comment 13963905 JohnB said:
Quote:
But now he has someone breathing down his back to take over his position. Gettleman's job is to make the Giants a better team and he is doing that.

Let the best man win! Flowers or Solder or anyone else out there. Let's make the Giants a better team because 3-13 isn't getting the job done.


Yeah...the Giants made Nate Solder the highest-paid offensive lineman in the league just so he could compete with Ereck Flowers.

Un-fucking-real.
Now I will admit that I’m not the biggest PFF fan but here u go  
map7711 : 5/15/2018 8:16 am : link
“Ereck Flowers showed a small improvement and put together the best season of his career. Although, admittedly, the bar was not set high and this performance earned Flowers just the 54th-highest grade among offensive tackles.”

53 tackles graded better. 53!!! For a first round number 9 pick in his 3rd year. How can anyone defend this guy’s performance? Now here’s to hoping he turns it around and plays a decent RT because we need it.
So much verbiage...  
M.S. : 5/15/2018 8:22 am : link

...devoted to an also-ran player who'll be out of the league in 2 to 3 years.


Flowers improved last year  
est1986 : 5/15/2018 8:23 am : link
He went from dog shit to shit... hopefully he can go from shit to decency this year... but in all seriousness Flowers played very well for a long stretch in the middle of the season, not just a few games, I’m talking like 8-10 weeks, facing some very good pass rushers. He struggled badly with Ziggy Ansah and he helped Demarcus Lawrence get paid in his two battles against him, but he definitely showed glimpses of being a really good (not elite) tackle. Yes Eli getting the ball out faster than any other QB absolutely helped but this guy is still a kid, he just turned 24 years old a day or two before the draft and he has three years of experience at starting left tackle. Still holding out hope that it will all click all of a sudden with him, but that hope is getting thinner each year, If last year wasn’t make or break for this kid, this year will 100% be his career defying year, wether he plays well and sticks going forward or flames out and is out of the league next year, this year will tell it all.
Flowers  
eric2425ny : 5/15/2018 8:27 am : link
Was not good last year. The not allowing a sack in 14 games stat is bullshit, because not allowing a sack doesn’t mean he wasn’t allowing guys to constantly pressure Eli leading to Eli having to throw it away, check down before guys routes could develop, or taking hits after releasing the ball. I’d rather have a guy that gives up an occasional sack, but keeps pressure off of Eli more often than not.
Fairly sure Eli Manning is one of the league leaders in  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2018 8:27 am : link
getting the ball out asap.

Flowers no-sack streak is folly...
If Flowers is the 54th best OT in the NFL there must be worse Tackles.  
Marty in Albany : 5/15/2018 8:27 am : link
Are they on the Giants?
Flowers  
Archer : 5/15/2018 8:28 am : link
Flowers weakness is with speed rushers.
He loses leverage and resorts to grabbing.

I always thought that he could be a very good guard.
He has been a good run blocker, he has the athletic ability to pull and get to the second level.

Pass blocking will be much easier for him as a guard. He will not be dealing with speed rushers and he has help on both sides.

I would like to see him at right guard with Wheeler at tackle.
RE: Fairly sure Eli Manning is one of the league leaders in  
eric2425ny : 5/15/2018 8:31 am : link
In comment 13963982 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
getting the ball out asap.

Flowers no-sack streak is folly...


You are correct, at one point last season I remember reading that Eli was releasing the ball faster than any QB in the NFL.
Flowers has fatal flaws... not weaknesses  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2018 8:32 am : link
He fails to get his hands on opponents quickly enough.

He fails to keep his feet moving when finally engaging.

He fails to sustain leverage and dips his shoulders/head into oncoming rusher.

Generally, he fails...
I wish I had the link  
eric2425ny : 5/15/2018 8:35 am : link
but Traina did a nice film breakdown of Flowers last year that showed some of the key technique issues that have followed Flowers from college to the pros. One of the biggest issues is when the ball is snapped he inexplicably drops his arms to his sides and then flings his left arm out to try to catch the edge rusher which is not only ineffective, but can lead to a serious arm/shoulder injury for Flowers as the defender whips his arm back.
Seems like a good time to post this again  
BlueHurricane : 5/15/2018 8:37 am : link
.
BUST - ( New Window )
RE: this is not accurate...  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/15/2018 8:38 am : link
In comment 13963873 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
He started off the season terribly. He settled down during a long stretch during the middle of the season. But then he fell apart again at the end. He was benched in the last game.


He was hurt the last game of the season, not benched.
RE: Seems like a good time to post this again  
eric2425ny : 5/15/2018 8:43 am : link
In comment 13963996 BlueHurricane said:
Quote:
. BUST - ( New Window )


Lol, thanks for that. “He lifted Flowers off the ground like a small child”
RE: RE: this is not accurate...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2018 8:47 am : link
In comment 13963999 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13963873 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


He started off the season terribly. He settled down during a long stretch during the middle of the season. But then he fell apart again at the end. He was benched in the last game.



He was hurt the last game of the season, not benched.


Yeah "hurt"...that's what his gynecologist indicated
RE: RE: this is not accurate...  
eric2425ny : 5/15/2018 8:49 am : link
In comment 13963999 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13963873 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


He started off the season terribly. He settled down during a long stretch during the middle of the season. But then he fell apart again at the end. He was benched in the last game.



He was hurt the last game of the season, not benched.


I wonder if he will miss week one because Gettleman “hurt” his feelings by signing a real offensive tackle in Solder.
RE: RE: Fairly sure Eli Manning is one of the league leaders in  
Bill in UT : 5/15/2018 8:59 am : link
In comment 13963989 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 13963982 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


getting the ball out asap.

Flowers no-sack streak is folly...



You are correct, at one point last season I remember reading that Eli was releasing the ball faster than any QB in the NFL.


Eli was in such a rush, he had Jones throwing the ball downfield
Will he even make the team?  
trueblueinpw : 5/15/2018 9:01 am : link
I know he has another year on his rookie contract and the cap hit is unavoidable but if he’s got a bad attitude in the locker room and he’s fucking up on the field, will the new regime even want to keep him around?
He  
AcidTest : 5/15/2018 9:17 am : link
plays hard and though injury. I don't question his toughness. But he just doesn't have the feet to play tackle in the NFL. As someone said, shifting him to RT might not be a viable option because teams move their pass rushers around. It's easy for a team to put its best pass rusher on Flowers. I also thought he got away with a lot of holding last year that wasn't called.

Moving him to guard may not be the answer either. DG commented that many players can't make that transition because it's an entirely different game inside. I think the Giants tried to move Bisnowaty from tackle to guard, and then cut him when they realized it wasn't going to work. We also have a lot of guards.

He's likely the backup to Wheeler this year. But if he's traded or cut, I assume we'll pick up a veteran RT after final cuts. We have the #2 waiver wire claim.
14 games, no sacks  
BillyM : 5/15/2018 9:41 am : link
He did improve, however, that is a bit misleading as I am sure Eli threw the ball into the ground on at least 5 different instances, minimum. Maybe 10 times.

If Eli was a scrambling QB, or younger, he stays in those plays and probably gets sacked 60-70% of the time.

I am rooting for the kid though.
I only opened this thread  
Mike from Ohio : 5/15/2018 9:44 am : link
to see FMIC's response. He is writer of utmost EXCELLENCE who laugh pulls from stoic belly on Tuesdays.
It wasn't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/15/2018 9:44 am : link
no sacks. It was 6 sacks.

Don't let EliteMobster's dumbassery and lack of fact checking steer you down the wrong path
Flowers  
PaulN : 5/15/2018 9:48 am : link
Stinks, what is there to defend, the only reason he kept playing was Jerry Reese.
RE: He  
mittenedman : 5/15/2018 9:54 am : link
In comment 13964036 AcidTest said:
Quote:
plays hard and though injury. I don't question his toughness. But he just doesn't have the feet to play tackle in the NFL. As someone said, shifting him to RT might not be a viable option because teams move their pass rushers around. It's easy for a team to put its best pass rusher on Flowers. I also thought he got away with a lot of holding last year that wasn't called.

Moving him to guard may not be the answer either. DG commented that many players can't make that transition because it's an entirely different game inside. I think the Giants tried to move Bisnowaty from tackle to guard, and then cut him when they realized it wasn't going to work. We also have a lot of guards.

He's likely the backup to Wheeler this year. But if he's traded or cut, I assume we'll pick up a veteran RT after final cuts. We have the #2 waiver wire claim.
I really..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/15/2018 9:57 am : link
don't think we want Wheeler to be starting.

Guy had a lot of work to do last year. Hell, Flowers is probably a better option, from a physical and experience standpoint.
The idea  
mittenedman : 5/15/2018 9:58 am : link
with Flowers to RT is Solder at LT hopefully resetting Eli’s internal clock & allowing him to play off pressure in his face. That and Shirmur’s run/play action-heavy scheme helping the pass pro.

McAdoo’s scheme was the worst possible situation for Flowers. If he’s got a chance, its this one.
RE: The idea  
Victor in CT : 5/15/2018 10:00 am : link
In comment 13964099 mittenedman said:
Quote:
with Flowers to RT is Solder at LT hopefully resetting Eli’s internal clock & allowing him to play off pressure in his face. That and Shirmur’s run/play action-heavy scheme helping the pass pro.

McAdoo’s scheme was the worst possible situation for Flowers. If he’s got a chance, its this one.
\

good post. so true
RE: RE: this is not accurate...  
Bramton1 : 5/15/2018 10:03 am : link
In comment 13963999 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13963873 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


He started off the season terribly. He settled down during a long stretch during the middle of the season. But then he fell apart again at the end. He was benched in the last game.



He was hurt the last game of the season, not benched.


He, along with Hart, declared themselves "hurt." The team then cut Hart, and benched Flowers. The only thing that saved him was his draft position.
So just because he didn't allow an official sack  
GiantFanInTX : 5/15/2018 10:28 am : link
means he was an elite tackle during those games? How about the number of pressures he gave up? Or how he was consistently beat on most passing downs requiring the ball to be thrown prematurely or quickly by design? Flowers does nothing exceptionally well - especially for a guy who was such a high draft pick.
He gave up 6...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/15/2018 10:31 am : link
official sacks last year, the same as Hart.
Maybe they didn't get inside him. They didn't have to. They went  
Blue21 : 5/15/2018 10:34 am : link
after his weakness. They ran around him like his feet was in concrete.
What's the point of actively rooting against Flowers?  
Bluenatic : 5/15/2018 11:44 am : link
Whatever you think of his effort, attitude, or performance, if the kid is in a Giants uniform, Giants fans should root for him to succeed. The amount of negativity thrown at this kid, even when criticism is justified, is ridiculous. Kid's definitely had his ups and downs, but I am not ready to give up on him just yet.
It's tough for many fans to give him the benefit  
Mike from Ohio : 5/15/2018 11:57 am : link
of the doubt when it seems he isn't exactly doing everything he can to get better. At the end of last year he and Hart seemed like they had better things to do than play out the remaining schedule. Not showing up to optional team events doesn't scream "I really want to put the work in to get better!"

When marginal players don't seem like they care if they succeed, it's hard for fans to rally around them.
RE: What's the point of actively rooting against Flowers?  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 5/15/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13964237 Bluenatic said:
Quote:
Whatever you think of his effort, attitude, or performance, if the kid is in a Giants uniform, Giants fans should root for him to succeed. The amount of negativity thrown at this kid, even when criticism is justified, is ridiculous. Kid's definitely had his ups and downs, but I am not ready to give up on him just yet.


Many of these guys would rather be right than see him succeed.
Weak post. No one is rooting for Flowers to fail.  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2018 1:38 pm : link
Its a team blog site...and threads about Giant players are going to include many comments, including criticism, sometime brutally honest criticism too.

But you can still do this and root for the team. If anything, its your post that has the agenda...
RE: What?  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/15/2018 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13963944 Doomster said:
Quote:
They have moved on from Flowers, as far as being a LT.....for a guy who is so big and "supposedly" mean, he is a candy ass in pass blocking.....the guy back peddles from the get go....I have never seen him attack a rusher and stop him dead in his tracks, in pass protection....and in the running game he was just as bad......

In one paragraph, you managed to prove how little you actually know about football. When have you ever seen any offensive lineman not backpedal in pass pro? The correct answer is never, because they cannot - by rule - fire out beyond the line of scrimmage on a passing play.
RE: RE: RE: this is not accurate...  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/15/2018 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13964008 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13963999 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 13963873 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


He started off the season terribly. He settled down during a long stretch during the middle of the season. But then he fell apart again at the end. He was benched in the last game.



He was hurt the last game of the season, not benched.



Yeah "hurt"...that's what his gynecologist indicated

His guaranteed salary for this season could have been voided had he been designated as suspended rather than injured for the last game of the season.

In other words, the Giants had every reason to err on the side of the suspension even if you believe that both were true. Instead, with nothing to gain by doing so, Spagnuolo insisted that Flowers missed the final game due to injury. The speculation about Flowers being suspended all came from Ranaan, who constantly has an axe to grind with Flowers.
RE: He can still be the starting LT  
VinegarPeppers : 5/15/2018 4:56 pm : link
With all due respect, Solder is a LOCK at LT. Flowers won't sniff that side again unless Nate goes down with injury.

In comment 13963905 JohnB said:
Quote:
But now he has someone breathing down his back to take over his position. Gettleman's job is to make the Giants a better team and he is doing that.

Let the best man win! Flowers or Solder or anyone else out there. Let's make the Giants a better team because 3-13 isn't getting the job done.
Fatman is an idiot  
Elite Mobster #32 : 5/16/2018 11:42 am : link
Who struggles with the Vodka bottle on a daily basis.
His opinion doesnt count, because he creates too much adversity without a solving anything.

Anyone who hangs around this guy is in danger of getting into a fight, because he has no class, and is an obnoxious cry baby.

This a personal attack on the Redneck from North Carolina
Fatman who worships Vodka bottles and stacks them up like a temple.


You...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/16/2018 11:49 am : link
really have a panache for insults.

And no, I'm not going to explain to you what panache means.

Bottom line. Flowers allowed 6 sacks last year, which pretty much nullifies all of the Broken English horseshit in the OP.
Redneck from the woods always say that  
Elite Mobster #32 : 5/16/2018 3:19 pm : link
You dont own english!
Its all english stupid

You speak obnoxious english, but its all english

As for Flowers he improved. How do you motivate yourself on negative energy like this. Just going around thinking you know everything? When was the last time you used a Passport?

I just came back from Aruba! How about You ?
Take that  
Jimmy Googs : 5/16/2018 4:37 pm : link
you vodka-drinking, no passport owning, redneck SOB...

:-)


Gatorade,  
Doomster : 5/16/2018 9:32 pm : link
RE: What?
Gatorade Dunk : 5/15/2018 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13963944 Doomster said:
Quote:
They have moved on from Flowers, as far as being a LT.....for a guy who is so big and "supposedly" mean, he is a candy ass in pass blocking.....the guy back peddles from the get go....I have never seen him attack a rusher and stop him dead in his tracks, in pass protection....and in the running game he was just as bad......

In one paragraph, you managed to prove how little you actually know about football. When have you ever seen any offensive lineman not backpedal in pass pro? The correct answer is never, because they cannot - by rule - fire out beyond the line of scrimmage on a passing play.



I think you have been dunked one time too many and suffer from brain damage.....as I said, this guy back pedals from the get go, some times all the way to the qb....because he back peddles so much, he never can set his feet and nail someone and then stop them in their tracks.....he never manhandles anyone, he plays patty cake with them, even if they come right at him....If you can't see that, then you are blind as well deaf and dumb....
RE: Take that  
YAJ2112 : 5/17/2018 10:40 am : link
In comment 13965995 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
you vodka-drinking, no passport owning, redneck SOB...

:-)



rednecks don't drink vodka, they drink the 'shine
Rednecks..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 10:44 am : link
in Estonia drink Vodka....
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