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Starting Lineup Changes from 2017

Joey in VA : 5/15/2018 2:56 pm
Gents and Gentettes,

This is preliminary but on my draft sheet on dropbox I added a tab called "Lineup Changes" and it should be the default view at the link below.

That said, I thought it would be interesting to line up the opening day starters per NFL.COM's game book from the opener last year to what we MAY line up like this year. Where I had issues:

1- Projecting LOLB - I went with Lorenzo Carter over Kareem Martin but that is a stretch, I may change to Martin.

2- Projecting sides of who plays where, I kept D. Tomlinson at the same lineup slot but on a different side and I don't know which OLBs will be on which side.

3- The starting lineup on O listed two TEs but in reality Engram is a WR so I changed out Shane Smith for Rhett Ellison.

4- Projecting who will improve based on last year, I have Engram being better with a year under his belt, same for Dalvin Tomlinson.

Overall this is a very rosy projection but I would like some input here on what you goons think. I think some are givens, such as Solder at LT, Flowers at RT over Hart, Ogletree over Kennard and clearly Barkley and Beckham better options than Perkins and Marshall.

Hernandez outperforming a vet is a maybe though, as is projecting Omameh to be better than Jerry which I do actually think he is. Curious for thoughts, input, insults, musings, opinions, qualitative analyses, quantitative analyses and random terrible ideas. Fire away.


2018 Lineup Changes - ( New Window )
Flowers  
PaulN : 5/15/2018 3:05 pm : link
Starting Right Tackle is a dream. Put Wheeler in there, that is more likely.
Four rookies starting  
Earl the goat : 5/15/2018 3:05 pm : link
I think thatís great

But that would never happen on a Coughlin coached team
Joey  
dep026 : 5/15/2018 3:06 pm : link
I am not sure if Eli is better but I think he plays better with a better OL , healthy receivers, plus Barkley.

I would put a + next to his name.
Joey..nice thread  
Chris684 : 5/15/2018 3:12 pm : link
There are a few young guys who can still really swing the pendulum one way or another.

Flowers, Apple and Thompson, 2 of which 1st round picks, all considered to be starters/core players getting one last chance.

I'm interested to see what lower half of the roster guys can do this summer. There are major opportunities in the secondary and along the oline.
Hate to be the pessimist but...  
AdamBrag : 5/15/2018 3:29 pm : link
Brett Jones is not equal to Weston Richburg
I'm not sure if Omameh is an upgrade from Fluker
Shane Smith wasn't a starter last year
RE: Hate to be the pessimist but...  
BleedBlue : 5/15/2018 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13964674 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
Brett Jones is not equal to Weston Richburg
I'm not sure if Omameh is an upgrade from Fluker
Shane Smith wasn't a starter last year



I am equal to richburg because he never fucking played. jones held his own plenty when in there last year...

so jones=jones

omameh may not be a huge upgrade to fluker i agree but lets not act like fluker was a stud at OG. he was a castoff and had been disappointing with SD. he came here as we took a chance on him and he was servicable....thats about it though.

he mentioned smith wasnt a starter but he went with a two TE set.
in his defense we should see alot of two TE sets but with engram split out wide
Not sure the responsibilities of  
idiotsavant : 5/15/2018 3:51 pm : link
Olb/ILB are exactly the same as in the old 3/4 as we assume.

There might be a way to run with:

Martin/Carter/Ogletree/Vernon

As, whereas Carter's not the thumper, OK, fine, he probably represents a great improvement over goodson in terms of pass defending, chase function and switch to edge rusher/blitz function.

And, we have strong DTS Tomlinson, Hill and have Harrison, to keep semi-skinny carter and smallish ogletree clean.

Not to relegate the DTS back to two gapping, not going to happen. I just think they make plays on the ball while rushing interior gaps which should do the trick.

Lineup increase team speed on D.
I doubt you'll see Hill  
Gman11 : 5/15/2018 3:53 pm : link
as a starter at DE. I may be wrong though.

hernandez =pugh?  
Joey from GlenCove : 5/15/2018 3:54 pm : link
doubtful at the start.
Is Hernandez a lock to be an upgrade?  
jcn56 : 5/15/2018 3:55 pm : link
Longer term I'd agree - but he's a rookie, and Pugh's major issue wasn't his play it was his health.

I'd go with a = there, which is still a compliment to Hernandez given he's never played a snap in the NFL.
Putting aside inside vs outside  
idiotsavant : 5/15/2018 4:06 pm : link
If goodson is out there he may be blitzing the A gap or some shit, assume Carter at olb doing all sorts of functions.


Whereas with Martin and Carter, Martin has 30lbs on goodson and Carter is much faster than goodson.

Maybe when they go with the 'front 3 light ' (mauro mackintosh) types you put goodson back in to run blitz interior gaps, but your loosing speed over the middle unless you have Carter at olb pass d which negates his blitz function.
Hernandez probably  
idiotsavant : 5/15/2018 4:09 pm : link
Stronger than Pugh, as a guard from the get go.

Never liked Pugh as guard, liked Pugh as tackle given our then supply.
the all important  
Ron Johnson : 5/15/2018 4:10 pm : link
slot corner will probably be a minus
If Apple is starting  
8 Ball : 5/15/2018 4:15 pm : link
it will essentially mean that he is better than last year. In other words, if he brings the equivalent crap play and attitude, he'll be gone. If he's a starter, it will mean that he has been resurrected.
Our O Line is much better than last year  
Rjanyg : 5/15/2018 4:24 pm : link
and add to the fact that Barkley is back there he will make them look better than they actually are.

Engram in 2nd year, Shepard in 3rd year have more experience.

Solder > Flowers
Hernandez > Pugh
Jones > Richburg
Omameh > Jerry
Wheeler > Hart

This line is way better than last years line. Pugh should have been our RT last year from day 1. But we had no guards. Jones is more physical than Richburg.

^^^  
BleedBlue : 5/15/2018 4:35 pm : link
i tend to agree that our OL at least on paper is MUCH improved.

i think if hernandez is as advertised, we made the left side of the line into a really formidable piece of the offense.

as above mentioned, barkley alone will allow the OL to look better plus overall he allows us to run the ball and control the clock if needed. the offense was so one dimensional for so long, now having a legit run threat is HUGE
The Oline will be  
jvm52106 : 5/15/2018 5:14 pm : link
better by default, regardless of where we think individuals match up with individuals from last year purely by having a system designed to function coherently. Look at Vikings Oline last year. Talent was average but they were far better because the scheme was designed to help them and the tempo and attacking format kept things more off balance for defenses. Our Offense last year was a mess of poor play, poor players and most of all a scheme that required perfection to work and did little to mask deficiencies.

Defensively, our secondary seems thin and though I think better overall, FS still is a major weakness.

Dline, we have BJ Hill listed here but I am not sure he gets the nod. We shall see. LB with Carter is an upgrade over Casillias. That dude was not healthy and was a liability physically. I will take mistakes and rookie lapses with the chance for some bigtime plays and possible game changing effects.

RE: Hernandez probably  
Steve in South Jersey : 5/15/2018 5:20 pm : link
In comment 13964724 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
Stronger than Pugh, as a guard from the get go.

Never liked Pugh as guard, liked Pugh as tackle given our then supply.


Pugh is always injured. Got to think that Hernandez will start more than Pugh did.
DRC replacement is my concern  
George from PA : 5/15/2018 5:30 pm : link
And I suspect Wheeler starts at RT and flower is swing tackle
RE: Hate to be the pessimist but...  
Mike From Brielle : 5/15/2018 5:30 pm : link
In comment 13964674 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
Brett Jones is not equal to Weston Richburg
I'm not sure if Omameh is an upgrade from Fluker
Shane Smith wasn't a starter last year


I wish we were able to Keep Richburg (Healthy?). Jones is great but more than once I saw him getting bull rushed into either the running back or Eli.
ol and dl  
hankb1126 : 5/15/2018 5:35 pm : link
when does continuity come into your factors on rating better or worse from year to year

ol has brand new line none of your proposed starters started for giants last year and defense going from 4-3 to a 3-4 has to be proved to be better

I hope you are right but I am more cautious
Art in will be a LB starter until Carter beats him out  
Ivan15 : 5/15/2018 5:43 pm : link
.
If you did a 3rd WR as another position  
FranknWeezer : 5/15/2018 5:46 pm : link
I'd have to say we'd be upgraded there, from Brandon Marshall, pretty much no matter who grabs the job (Cody Latimer, Roger Lewis, an incoming FA, etc.)
RE: Hate to be the pessimist but...  
section125 : 5/15/2018 5:56 pm : link
In comment 13964674 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
Brett Jones is not equal to Weston Richburg
I'm not sure if Omameh is an upgrade from Fluker
Shane Smith wasn't a starter last year


Yes Jones is not equal to Richbrg, he stays on the field. +

Fluker is grossly overrated on BBI. Strong? Yes. Mobile no.

Rhett Ellison is the TE. He is decent blocker and good receiver..don't see where Shane Smith fits.
RE: Hate to be the pessimist but...  
Joey in VA : 5/15/2018 7:20 pm : link
In comment 13964674 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
Brett Jones is not equal to Weston Richburg
I'm not sure if Omameh is an upgrade from Fluker
Shane Smith wasn't a starter last year
This is only based on the game one, week one game book of who started in Dallas last year. I think Jones actually outperformed Westburg after he took over, but that's why we discuss this stuff, to disagree.
RE: RE: Hate to be the pessimist but...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/15/2018 7:25 pm : link
In comment 13964821 section125 said:
Quote:
don't see where Shane Smith fits.


Shane Smith is a fullback.

They just drafted a franchise RB indicating a significant commitment to a run game. They'll certainly have use for a fullback at some point.
To add  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/15/2018 7:52 pm : link
Even Chris Snee wasn't great from the very start. He held up well for a rookie but he didn't enter the league as a dominant player. I think Hernandez will be really good, but not necessarily in year 1.
RE: To add  
Joey in VA : 5/15/2018 9:07 pm : link
In comment 13964908 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Even Chris Snee wasn't great from the very start. He held up well for a rookie but he didn't enter the league as a dominant player. I think Hernandez will be really good, but not necessarily in year 1.
Yeah you're probably right on that one. Long term he should be plus over Pugh but not from game one.
Looks about right  
Les in TO : 5/15/2018 9:51 pm : link
Not sure about the right side of the line and whether Vernon will excel in the 3-4
WR???  
Bruner4329 : 5/15/2018 10:59 pm : link
Marshall being replaced by OBJ is not factually correct. OBJ was a starter last year. Marshall was the 3rd wideout. And you can't argue fact that OBJ got hurt last year because Marshall got hurt in same game and both were out for the season.
Are we talking about the Richburg from his rookie year or the  
fredgbrown : 5/16/2018 9:38 am : link
player who was mostly hurt and play has been poor the last 2 years? When you are not in the lineup that is a minus and most players improve the first few year of their careers not go in the other directions otherwise they get a change of scenery like he did.
RE: I doubt you'll see Hill  
baadbill : 5/16/2018 9:56 am : link
In comment 13964709 Gman11 said:
Quote:
as a starter at DE. I may be wrong though.


I think that pretty well covers all the options... lol
RE: WR???  
FJ : 5/16/2018 10:13 am : link
In comment 13965158 Bruner4329 said:
Quote:
Marshall being replaced by OBJ is not factually correct. OBJ was a starter last year. Marshall was the 3rd wideout. And you can't argue fact that OBJ got hurt last year because Marshall got hurt in same game and both were out for the season.
Joey explained this is opening day starters 2017 vs projected opening day starters 2018. Beckham did not play week 1 last year. Smith started the game at FB. Fluker was a backup.
OLine will be better.......  
Tom [Giants fan] : 5/16/2018 11:17 am : link
with reps and continuity. Once they gel as a unit and know what the other is doing, the OLine will be better than what we have seen in a while. But it will take some time and starting with that Jacksonville D could be worrisome.
Joey  
Pascal4554 : 5/16/2018 12:30 pm : link
Nice analysis. Thanks for doing this... Hoping Vernon plays better in the new 3-4 scheme, do you think the scheme change will benefit him?

Comments from SY'56 from another thread on our defensive personnel below in case you didn't see his take.

There are always more options
Sy'56 : 10:09 am : link : reply
with the front seven in a 3-4...little more difficult for an offense to plan for. However the right kind of personnel is needed, there are more potential holes for the offense to exploit.

If the DC is smart enough and the key components are there, it is a positive move. I am confident one half of that is present. The personnel, there is a lot of wishful thinking in my opinion. The lack of edge presence, lack of a true FS, and durability questions with Goodson would have me worried. And we haven't mentioned the potential mess at CB.
RE: Hate to be the pessimist but...  
VinegarPeppers : 5/16/2018 1:53 pm : link
Omameh only gave up two sacks last season in 16 games played.

In comment 13964674 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
Brett Jones is not equal to Weston Richburg
I'm not sure if Omameh is an upgrade from Fluker
Shane Smith wasn't a starter last year
r
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