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NFT: The Americans, three episodes left

AnnapolisMike : 5/16/2018 3:03 pm
Been a good season so far. Really have no clue how they are going to end it, but I doubt anyone is riding off into the sunset. There are plenty of plot holes and inconsistencies...especially involving Stan who appears to be just now figuring it all out. But I just ignore them and enjoy it.

I do think Renee (Stan's girlfriend) is a spy and ends up killing him.
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Henry doesn't know anything yet  
Greg from LI : 5/16/2018 3:59 pm : link
But he DOES know there's something strange about his family - he's never met a single relative, his parents come and go at weird hours and sometimes are gone for days at a time, and his mother barely notices him. I don't think it would be hard for him to believe the truth when it's revealed to him.

You know who I'd like to see a return appearance of? Sandra Beeman. Milfalicious.
RE: Henry doesn't know anything yet  
jcn56 : 5/16/2018 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13965927 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But he DOES know there's something strange about his family - he's never met a single relative, his parents come and go at weird hours and sometimes are gone for days at a time, and his mother barely notices him. I don't think it would be hard for him to believe the truth when it's revealed to him.

You know who I'd like to see a return appearance of? Sandra Beeman. Milfalicious.


I thought that set up Stan nicely, but then it turned out to be nothing. Meanwhile, dopey Henry hasn't figured out one bit of it.
Has Stan actually "figured it out" yet (connected them to the  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/16/2018 4:09 pm : link
Russians case) as opposed to just finding their behavior/excuses very questionable in general? It seems to me if he "figured it out", he would be a helluva lot more aggressive than just snooping through their house.

I think the show might end with Stan getting killed by Renee (who's undercover), Henry finding out the connection and ratting his parents out (like Walt Jr.), and the Jennings having to return to Russia like Martha did via a plane in the middle of the night. They'll leave both kids behind even though Paige wants to go with them and Henry is disgusted by them.
There's a cameo that I'd like to see for 30 seconds  
jcn56 : 5/16/2018 4:11 pm : link
Martha on line for beets, with that patented smile of hers.
I think Stan has a strong suspicion  
Greg from LI : 5/16/2018 4:19 pm : link
But one of the recurring themes over the course of the series has been Stan dismissing his own instincts when he doesn't want to believe the worst about someone he likes. There was a scene towards the end of the Martha storyline where Stan has a dream about her, and in the dream she's taking files from the mail robot and putting them in her desk. Subconsciously, he knew she was up to no good, but he never acted on it because he convinced himself otherwise. Same thing with the Jennings family - he knows something is up, and even snoops through their house for the second time, but it's like he WANTS to be wrong because being right means that they've been operating under his nose for years.
and cut Henry some slack  
Greg from LI : 5/16/2018 4:20 pm : link
He's an honors student and the hockey team's star - he doesn't have time to figure out his parents' dark secret!
if theres a better show  
UESBLUE : 5/16/2018 4:33 pm : link
on broadcast tv tell me what it is. I will miss The Americans...
One thing I figured Stan  
pjcas18 : 5/16/2018 4:41 pm : link
would do or could have done (or could still do), is he knew Phillip and Elizabeth had to travel to Houston to deal with a customer issue.

Now, forget the fact they're travel agents, why would they possibly both have to go to Houston to meet with an angry customer due to some travel issue, but forget that for a minute.

Even in the mid-80's I have to believe the FBI had near real time if not actually real time access to flight manifests and he could have easily checked to see

a) Did Philip and Elizabeth Jennings actually fly to Houston on or around thanksgiving

b) Were they actually in Chicago when their target was lost and subsequently killed

C) if they flew under aliases there would be no record of Philip or Elizabeth Jennings traveling anywhere

all but A would set off red flags and we know A won't check out to be true

Love this show  
5BowlsSoon : 5/16/2018 4:56 pm : link
1. Please donít let anything bad happen to Oleg
2. Liz deserves the same fate as Walter White
3. Paige locked up sounds good to me too
4. Stan lives and.........gets to take care of Henry since he was more of a father to him than Philip
5. Philip was going to cop a deal but ultimately gets killed by Stanís gf
6. Martha is happy and has a child or two in the Mother Country
7. The heavy set handler is exposed and flogged......
awesome show gonna miss it so much  
Stu11 : 5/16/2018 5:24 pm : link
my takes-
- I thought the pill Phillip threw away was either the woman's or the guy they were trying to get out. Definitely not Liz's.
-they are making too big of a deal about the pill to not have Liz or maybe even Phillip swallow it in the end.
-I do think there's a good chance Phil doesn't make it, and yes its obvious Stan's woman is a plant especially with her wanting to worm her way in the bureau any way possible.
-I agree Greg, Paige is a traitor bitch who's either getting killed or flipped. She's in way over her head.
-Stan is on to them big time. I think it clicked in his mind about while driving with Henry and he realized the timing of him getting back from that big op in Philly and them not being there at home when he got back. I agree PJ that it should be easy for him to get info on the flight manifests and prove they didn't go to Houston. He's starting to realize that they disappear when his dept run big ops, what was the Philly op? I forget. I had something to do with Gregory no?
-There's still a lot left here to play out with involving Burov.
-One thing that has been consistent about the show is that if they don't kill a big character off we see them again, even if it takes years so I'm betting we get a bit of Martha. Would be an interesting way to end it with Phil back in Russia bumping into her.
-one way I see them going is Henry pulling what that son of the mirror family/agents pulled a few seasons back when he brutally murdered the whole family. Only he did it out of loyalty to the Russians maybe Henry doesn't go full on kill mode but he turns them into Stan?
- last but no least, still trying to decide what gets me more turned on- Wendy Rhoades or Liz going into full on blonde honeypot mode like what she's doing with the Sam Nunn intern...
Elizabeth still has the pill  
AnnapolisMike : 5/16/2018 5:50 pm : link
I'm not as critical of Paige as some of you. She was deep into the whole religious thing for a while and slide right from that into spying. She needs something to believe in and work for. Did you notice Stan picking up her cross necklace in her room when he was snooping around?

I think someone dies tonight....My guess is Stan.
Phillip seems to me somewhat of a contradiction  
pjcas18 : 5/16/2018 5:51 pm : link
last episode we watched as he hacked the head and hands off a Russian operative so they couldn't be identified and he shot at FBI agents (if I remember right) but I feel like in his mind he's mentally flipped already to becoming an American. We know he wants out of the kgb, but i never got the sense that it was to go "home". Has he ever said that?

I can see him fleeing somewhere if forced to by either the Russians or Americans, but I don't see him willingly going back to Russia.

RE: Phillip seems to me somewhat of a contradiction  
Stu11 : 5/16/2018 6:25 pm : link
In comment 13966063 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
last episode we watched as he hacked the head and hands off a Russian operative so they couldn't be identified and he shot at FBI agents (if I remember right) but I feel like in his mind he's mentally flipped already to becoming an American. We know he wants out of the kgb, but i never got the sense that it was to go "home". Has he ever said that?

I can see him fleeing somewhere if forced to by either the Russians or Americans, but I don't see him willingly going back to Russia.

Yep Phil has been in conflict since right off the bat in the pilot when he begged Liz to defect. With the flasbacks to his youth you see how damaged he is from that upbringing in poverty and squalor. The Center was a way out for him and now the conflict is that now that he has found inner peace in America he's conflicted because of all years of service and being married to Liz who's been full on dedicated since day one. Liz is definitely going down with the ship. They have given her 100 times to doubt her dedication over the years and she has always been steadfast. She hates the US and is 100% loyal to the cause.
The only thing holding Phillip back is devotion to Elizabeth  
Greg from LI : 5/16/2018 8:21 pm : link
I'm starting to think he ends up sacrificing himself to protect her/give her a chance to escape
Yea Phil would defect in a heart beat  
Stu11 : 5/16/2018 8:59 pm : link
But can he really believe he'd get away with it? I mean they literally send his wife to off defectors all the time. Even ones being guarded by the FBI.
I could see himself throwing himself on the sword to save Liz and Paig  
Stu11 : 5/16/2018 9:01 pm : link
.
I think Elizabeth has to die for the series to end  
Steve in South Jersey : 5/16/2018 9:16 pm : link
can't believe the series is coming to an end. I will miss it.
Lots of great theories  
mikeygiants : 5/16/2018 9:27 pm : link
someone isnít going to make it, I think itís got to be Elizabeth. Oleg plays some part in all of this too. Could Renee be the one to take out Stan if he shares his suspicion of the family?
Best show on TV  
JerseyCityJoe : 5/16/2018 9:53 pm : link
My bet is Phillip gets caught and makes a deal to save his daughter. His wife makes it back to Russia.
Well  
Greg from LI : 5/17/2018 12:13 am : link
For a show with an endless number of horrible on-screen deaths, they managed to outdo themselves tonight.
RE: Best show on TV  
5BowlsSoon : 5/17/2018 7:52 am : link
In comment 13966173 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
My bet is Phillip gets caught and makes a deal to save his daughter. His wife makes it back to Russia.


Iím now starting to come over to this line of thinking.....Philip will do ANYTHING for his family. He said that last night. He may be the sacrifice and somehow Liz gets to escape being caught and or death.

I would be shocked to see Stan taken out though, even though he is dating a Russian spy too. But, I do believe she will serve a ďsignificantĒ purpose somehow......to possibly even kill of Philip and Liz, rather than Stan. Donít forget, she now has a chance to work in the FBI so I donít believe she wants to lose that cover. Killing Stan might bring suspicion to her.
RE: Well  
jcn56 : 5/17/2018 8:01 am : link
In comment 13966219 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
For a show with an endless number of horrible on-screen deaths, they managed to outdo themselves tonight.


Seriously, that seemed a bit gratuitous. I get the chopping off hands and heads to avoid identification, but was this whole sequence really necessary?
RE: RE: Best show on TV  
jcn56 : 5/17/2018 8:03 am : link
In comment 13966263 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 13966173 JerseyCityJoe said:


Quote:


My bet is Phillip gets caught and makes a deal to save his daughter. His wife makes it back to Russia.



Iím now starting to come over to this line of thinking.....Philip will do ANYTHING for his family. He said that last night. He may be the sacrifice and somehow Liz gets to escape being caught and or death.

I would be shocked to see Stan taken out though, even though he is dating a Russian spy too. But, I do believe she will serve a ďsignificantĒ purpose somehow......to possibly even kill of Philip and Liz, rather than Stan. Donít forget, she now has a chance to work in the FBI so I donít believe she wants to lose that cover. Killing Stan might bring suspicion to her.


I feel like Stan gets the ax and she remains in the FBI, even after Elizabeth and Philip are gone (in whatever manner they're either killed or displaced). Sort of a continuity play, even with a victory there's an ongoing battle.
Phillip is planning to die  
Greg from LI : 5/17/2018 8:07 am : link
He's broke but he's out buying an expensive new suit. He watches a movie from back home so he can hear Russian voices one more time. He visits Stavros to try to apologize.

Maybe I'm reading too much into all that, but seems to me like a guy getting his affairs in order.
Btw  
Greg from LI : 5/17/2018 8:10 am : link
I got a good laugh out of the letdown when Gregory's old partner tells Stan "I have something for you" and then gives him the invaluable gift of a Roy Rogers combo meal.
RE: Btw  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 8:19 am : link
In comment 13966271 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I got a good laugh out of the letdown when Gregory's old partner tells Stan "I have something for you" and then gives him the invaluable gift of a Roy Rogers combo meal.


"you were honest with me" LOL.
RE: RE: Btw  
Stu11 : 5/17/2018 8:33 am : link
In comment 13966280 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13966271 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


I got a good laugh out of the letdown when Gregory's old partner tells Stan "I have something for you" and then gives him the invaluable gift of a Roy Rogers combo meal.



"you were honest with me" LOL.

Lol yea that was great. Good catch there Greg on there Phillip getting affairs in order. Interesting to see after all these years we see a slight crack in Liz. We've found that there is a bridge too far for her. Interesting that both Liz and Phil ran into the same moment last night- where they were made,Liz with the Nun intern and Phil with Stavros where you could see them have the same reaction- " I just can't keep up with killing every loose end"
RE: Lots of great theories  
AcesUp : 5/17/2018 10:27 am : link
In comment 13966162 mikeygiants said:
Quote:
someone isnít going to make it, I think itís got to be Elizabeth. Oleg plays some part in all of this too. Could Renee be the one to take out Stan if he shares his suspicion of the family?


I think pjcas had it right in the first post...some sort of climax where Renee is about to kill Stan as he tracks them but Phillip ends up killing Renee to save Stan. Probably some sort of bang bang scene where Phillip appears to be shooting at Stan, Stan shoots Phillip out of reflex but Phillip was actually saving Stan from Renee.
I still don't think Renee is KGB  
Greg from LI : 5/17/2018 11:34 am : link
Just seems too risky for them to plant an illegal as the live-in girlfriend/wife (I don't think they've ever established if they got married or not) of an FBI agent. Besides, Stan had been out of counterintelligence for a few years - what would be the point of her sticking around with him at that point? The Center desperate for information on bank robbery investigations?

I used to think that she might be a CIA plant to keep tabs on FBI CI agents, but again, why would she have stayed with Stan for years while he worked ordinary criminal cases?
I just can't imagine a quasi-believable storyline  
jcn56 : 5/17/2018 12:11 pm : link
that has a US intelligence agency putting a planted live-in girlfriend with someone working on counterintelligence.

Not that it won't happen, but that would be a real stretch. Now - girlfriend? Sure thing. Deep cover, full time live in? Just seems like too much could go wrong.

The Russians on the other hand - even Philip seems to think she's one of theirs. Would they take the chance? I don't see why not, when they're willing to sign up Paige with a job at the State Department.
yea they've kept her around, and featured her too much in past episode  
Stu11 : 5/17/2018 1:32 pm : link
re-caps for Renee not to be involved big time. I thought the CIA angle thing at first, but no way they would have hung in there for years especially since he has been out of counter-intel. Obviously from last night's epi and the previews of next week Stan is on Phil and Liz's tail big time. I agree there is a good chance this all ends in a shootout type situation with Phil/Liz/Renee/Stan. BTW for a show that has developed such awesome characters, the one that has always annoyed me is Aderholt. Seems like they could have done so much better with a Stan partner. There is no depth there and the guy is an awful actor.
But why would the KGB have expended such resources  
Greg from LI : 5/17/2018 2:32 pm : link
to have a deep cover agent be the girlfriend/wife of a guy investigating ordinary crimes? If he had been in CI the whole time, maybe, but he'd been out of that for at least two years by the show's timeline (previous season ended in early 1985, current season began in mid-1987).
yea I admit it has holes in it  
Stu11 : 5/17/2018 2:40 pm : link
plus why would they go through such lengths to plant her right next door to Phil and Liz without cluing them in at all? However she's still around for a reason. Maybe its an op that started out as surveillance on Stan, then when he transferred they kept her there in hopes of her getting an in to the Bureau even in a civilian position?
I guess  
Greg from LI : 5/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
Just seems like a loose end more than anything else. Not seeing an effective way to tie her in that makes any sense.

So, does Pastor Tim spill the beans when Stan calls?
RE: But why would the KGB have expended such resources  
jcn56 : 5/17/2018 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13966738 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
to have a deep cover agent be the girlfriend/wife of a guy investigating ordinary crimes? If he had been in CI the whole time, maybe, but he'd been out of that for at least two years by the show's timeline (previous season ended in early 1985, current season began in mid-1987).


He's former CI, so he's got friends and contacts in that area. Could also be a twofer - monitor Philip and Liz while getting what they can from Stan.

Also - didn't Stan transfer after he started dating her?
I was never sure if  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 2:50 pm : link
Renee was KGB or not, but it sure seemed like they telegraphed it.

I wouldn't be surprised either way.

for being the 3rd to last episode ever they slow played it.

All we really learned was:

1. Elizabeth still has the cyanide pill

2. Elizabeth has developed a conscious. Seems almost out of character for her to let Jackson live and to decide removing Gorbachev wasn't for the good of the party - she seemed like an order taker most of the series, not someone who thinks too much.

3. Most of the employees at the travel agency probably knew it wasn't just a travel agency.

4. Stan is possibly a step closer to earnestly suspecting Elizabeth and Phillip.

Anything else?


The center would not want someone deep cover with an FBI agent  
AnnapolisMike : 5/17/2018 3:01 pm : link
living right across the street from deep cover residents?

There was some conversation about finding out if the Jennings actually flew to Houston, but that would likely require a warrant which Stan is not yet prepared to get yet. Stan is not blowing the whistle until he is sure.

The Jennings are kind of on the same side now...you could see a scenario in which they go to the FBI to let them know about the plot against Gorbachev. They don't seem to be caring about loose ends at this point.
Oh, Stan definitely suspects  
Greg from LI : 5/17/2018 3:22 pm : link
He broke into their house and is showing Elizabeth's picture to suspects from old cases. Plus, if you watched the next week preview, you have an exasperated Aderholt saying "Phillip and Elizabeth Jennings are not Soviet agents" and Stan saying "Yeah, but what if...
In the mid to late 80's  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 3:34 pm : link
I don't think he'd need a warrant to get a flight manifest.

not sure though. and it's part of an investigation, not like checking cell phone records (in today's equivalent).
Even if he needed the warrant for the purpose of prosecution  
jcn56 : 5/17/2018 3:45 pm : link
a phone call to someone in the know at the airlines with computer access could at least confirm what he suspected, and he could get the warrant after the fact.

These are small plot holes, though. The bigger ones - like the fact that these 'travel agents' have been suspiciously leaving their kids alone for days on end and disappear in the middle of the night, not being noticed by an FBI counterintelligence agent for a decade, seem to be the best place to start.
Of course there are larger plot holes  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 3:57 pm : link
and many of them have been discussed on here.

The flight manifest I only brought up b/c if I were Stan that's the first thing I'd check (to see a) if they were in Houston, b) if they were in Chicago and c) if they don't show up on a manifest at all) the answer would give him a lot of information without getting much information if you know what I mean.

So, yeah, small hole relatively speaking, but an obvious one.
"suspiciously leaving their kids alone for days on end"  
Greg from LI : 5/17/2018 3:59 pm : link
Hey, it was the '80s - didn't everyone's parents do that? No?
RE: The center would not want someone deep cover with an FBI agent  
Mike From Brielle : 5/17/2018 4:15 pm : link
In comment 13966778 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
living right across the street from deep cover residents?

There was some conversation about finding out if the Jennings actually flew to Houston, but that would likely require a warrant which Stan is not yet prepared to get yet. Stan is not blowing the whistle until he is sure.

The Jennings are kind of on the same side now...you could see a scenario in which they go to the FBI to let them know about the plot against Gorbachev. They don't seem to be caring about loose ends at this point.


I believe I read someplace that the old KGB never had any personnel problems because they practically got whatever and whoever they wanted. Their operations had a lot of moving parts, they were highly compartmentalized, and they were very disciplined (or else). So I kind of feel them putting one agent on over-watch on another couple of agents one of whom they may have felt had the potential as a defector wouldn't be that out of line from what I read. Anyhow who knows.
I don't find it realistic  
steve in ky : 5/17/2018 4:37 pm : link
that Stan is that suspicious of them. He considers them his best friends and without something "Russian" triggering the suspicions I don't think it's believable he goes there simply because they are a couple who just happen to also often leave home on "business". They should have allowed for a small slip up on their parts for the thought to be planted. Maybe when Elizabeth brought home the authentic Russian food they cooked that Phillip was too full to enjoy they could have had him talk her into not throwing it away and then have Stan wonder over when he was eating it. Still a pretty benign clue but at least something more legitimate to get him to mentally get to the point of actively investigating his closest friends as murdering spies.
He had suspected them before, though  
Greg from LI : 5/17/2018 4:48 pm : link
.
In regards to my comments in the thread before last night's ep,  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/17/2018 5:05 pm : link
I guess Stan has "figured it out", although I must say I'm unhappy with how it happened. Phillip made the worst excuse ever for having to dump Henry on Stan.

The craziest thing that happened in last night's ep was Stavros admitting that he knew something was up with the Jennings. Between Phillip letting that go and Elizabeth letting the kid go, the Jennings are losing their "touch" and that could possibly lead to them getting caught.

I can't quite put my finger on why Phillip would be buying a new suit.
One theory I read  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 5:16 pm : link
about the suit is to show he's Americanized.

He just came clean with his deceit to Elizabeth, he told Stavros he's in financial ruin, he is fed up with shit like in Chicago having to chop off someone's hands and head, so it's a human (or definitely American) reaction to depression to shop to soothe yourself. Spend money you don't have because you can.

Maybe a stretch but the place I read it quoted one of the writers.

Renee is played by a pretty big tv actress  
AcesUp : 5/17/2018 6:13 pm : link
It would be one hell of a red herring to sign that actress to make a couple of small cameos for a few seasons unless she played a pivotal role in the plot.
RE: I was never sure if  
Mike From Brielle : 5/17/2018 6:29 pm : link
In comment 13966765 pjcas18 said:


2. Elizabeth has developed a conscious. Seems almost out of character for her to let Jackson live and to decide removing Gorbachev wasn't for the good of the party - she seemed like an order taker most of the series, not someone who thinks too much.

[/quote]

I kind of thought that her refusal to execute that assignment was her way of saying I am not a serial killer, I am an agent for my party and country (she really means just country but is capable of lying to herself). Plus she probably figured out it was a bogus assignment (which she's probably taken into consideration the information she's heard from Philip). She probably should be nervous about getting involved with somebodies non-official political agenda. I believe Russian history is rife with people ending up on the short end of the stick because they didn't look before the leapt and ended as fall guys.
RE: One theory I read  
DaShotel13 : 5/17/2018 9:17 pm : link
I took that it was for his funeral. Maybe an ďout thereĒ theory but I get the sense that Phillip is readying to die protecting his family from what he knows is coming.

Just a hunch
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