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NFT: Mets Minors 5/17/2018-McNeil again

DanMetroMan : 5/17/2018 7:25 am
AAA Conlon
AA TBD
A+ Prevost
A+ TBD
A Dibrell


AA
McNeil 2-4, HR (.375 with 3 homers, 4/3 BB/K over his last 10. OPS up to 1.106)
Alonso 0-2, 2 BB, K
Tebow 0-4, 2 k's
Church 4 innings 8 hits 6 runs 1 walk 8 k's
Uceta 2 innings 2 hits 1 run 1 walk 4 k's
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Is McNeil a  
Pete in MD : 5/17/2018 9:48 am : link
legit prospect? Wasn't he a mid to late round pick?
RE: Church  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2018 9:50 am : link
In comment 13966362 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
was a 2nd round pick, if he was never considered a prospect then MLB draft is either the biggest crapshoot in sports drafts or the Mets picked a shitty player not worthy of 2nd round selection (at the time).


He wasn't viewed as a guy who would go that high, then had a few private workouts where he touched mid-90's. He was a lottery ticket but 2nd round it was a dumb gamble.
RE: Is McNeil a  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2018 9:51 am : link
In comment 13966364 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
legit prospect? Wasn't he a mid to late round pick?


12th rounder. Jeff Paternostro still has a 3/4 grade on him (ie an MLB bench player) but who knows? Is this somehow the new norm with his added lbs?
RE: RE: RE: Did anyone ever consider  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2018 9:52 am : link
In comment 13966360 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13966356 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13966354 Shecky said:


Quote:


Church a prospect?



ZGiants and I argued over Church on many occasions in past years lol



That could be said for virtually any and every Mets conversation, can't it?

I guess when realizing the alternative pick could have been Blake Taylor, it makes the Church pick sting even more (Sarcasm)


Taylor looked like a real "get". Sad lol
RE: RE: Church  
spike : 5/17/2018 10:19 am : link
In comment 13966367 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13966362 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


was a 2nd round pick, if he was never considered a prospect then MLB draft is either the biggest crapshoot in sports drafts or the Mets picked a shitty player not worthy of 2nd round selection (at the time).



He wasn't viewed as a guy who would go that high, then had a few private workouts where he touched mid-90's. He was a lottery ticket but 2nd round it was a dumb gamble.


did he go under slot
RE: Church  
Shecky : 5/17/2018 10:22 am : link
In comment 13966362 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
was a 2nd round pick, if he was never considered a prospect then MLB draft is either the biggest crapshoot in sports drafts or the Mets picked a shitty player not worthy of 2nd round selection (at the time).

Yes and yes
RE: RE: RE: Church  
Shecky : 5/17/2018 10:24 am : link
In comment 13966419 spike said:
Quote:


did he go under slot


Going from memory here, but I think by like $300k. Just a terrible pick...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Church  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2018 10:49 am : link
In comment 13966429 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13966419 spike said:


Quote:




did he go under slot



Going from memory here, but I think by like $300k. Just a terrible pick...


Damn sick memory... 300,000 in savings.
The savings got them  
Shecky : 5/17/2018 10:53 am : link
Bashlor... who was like $500k over. Dom was like $200k under, so did basic math - thats all
2013 was a Dan type of draft  
Shecky : 5/17/2018 10:55 am : link
Long shots with upside, and some athletes. Well, Dom was the exception to "athlete" and funny how he may be the only one to turn into anything.
RE: The savings got them  
spike : 5/17/2018 11:01 am : link
In comment 13966474 Shecky said:
Quote:
Bashlor... who was like $500k over. Dom was like $200k under, so did basic math - thats all


Great drafting, Sandy.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 11:08 am : link
Why should Sandy Alderson keep his job? I can't even think of one reason.
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2018 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13966501 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Why should Sandy Alderson keep his job? I can't even think of one reason.


I can only think of 1 reason - he did better than Omar. Who I'd bet is lined up as his likely replacement.
Dan I read an article today in the Post  
Chris684 : 5/17/2018 2:36 pm : link
That Swihart wants out in Boston.

What do you know of him? Could he be a once highly touted/change of scenery type guy? Would/should the Mets have interest?
RE: Dan I read an article today in the Post  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2018 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13966744 Chris684 said:
Quote:
That Swihart wants out in Boston.

What do you know of him? Could he be a once highly touted/change of scenery type guy? Would/should the Mets have interest?


He can't hit... at all. In fact his last season where he was league average with the bat at any level was 2013. For a throwaway guy I'd take a shot I guess but he's been really, really bad.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 2:50 pm : link
In comment 13966742 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13966501 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Why should Sandy Alderson keep his job? I can't even think of one reason.



I can only think of 1 reason - he did better than Omar. Who I'd bet is lined up as his likely replacement.


I'm not even sure we can say that.

I think the 2006 Mets team was better than the 2015 team. They just didn't get as far.

I just don't see any reason why Alderson should still have a job. The MLB level team is on the verge of a second consecutive lost season.

The team has not even been competitive in most of the seasons he's been here.

2011
2012
2013
2014
2017
2018 (?)

All of these years, the Mets were basically out of the race before Summer even started.

The farm sucks. Alderson spent $54 million dollars this offseason on ZERO return thus far. Almost hard to do.

I am completely unimpressed by this guy as a baseball exec. I don't think he's good at all.
RE: RE: .  
Vanzetti : 5/17/2018 2:50 pm : link
In comment 13966742 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13966501 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Why should Sandy Alderson keep his job? I can't even think of one reason.



I can only think of 1 reason - he did better than Omar. Who I'd bet is lined up as his likely replacement.


He actually did not do better than Omar. Mets winning percentage was way higher under Omar.

And Omar's drafting was way better.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want Omar back, but by no objective measure is Sandy better than Omar.




Swihart is only 26 years old  
spike : 5/17/2018 3:01 pm : link
catcher who can play multiple spots (LF 1B 3B)

Maybe we can give the Sox Hansel Robles or Blevins?
RE: Swihart is only 26 years old  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2018 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13966777 spike said:
Quote:
catcher who can play multiple spots (LF 1B 3B)

Maybe we can give the Sox Hansel Robles or Blevins?


I'd give Hansel Robles away for free so yeah, Robles for Swihart is fine but he legit hasn't hit in years.
I think Omar  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 3:21 pm : link
was better than Sandy, but Sandy would never have left Willi go like that or had some of the other issues (like with Adam Rubin) that Omar did.

Omar also acted like he had no plan, seemed like he built his roster every year not much long-term planning.

But he made some solid trades, free agent signings, and draft picks (as well as some bad ones).

Omar also didn't really have to deal with the Madoff stuff.
If the Mets were to go full Marlins  
CMicks3110 : 5/17/2018 3:56 pm : link
and rebuild.

We have a ton of pieces to sell off, and could probably get more for our pieces than the Marlins got for Stanton, Yelich, and Ozuna.

If we said, f* it, we're not going to be good for 5 years. We could literally trade syndergaard, degrom for an absolute HAUL.

We could get something decent for Cespedes, Cabrera and Familia. We could probably get some C-Level Prospects for the Frazier/Swarzak types.

question is, what would we do with the young players that are here and are decent players (conforto, nimmo, matz, rosario) do we hold on to them and win 70-75 games?
Lol, Omar was lightyears ahead of Sandy. Hard to dispute that.  
PhiPsi125 : 5/17/2018 4:30 pm : link
.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 4:45 pm : link
I'm nervous about the idea of selling everything off for prospects because I am starting to have serious doubts about the way the Mets are developing them.

We could get a ton for deGrom, Thor, etc.. but if we muff the development of the players we get, then we're really in deep shit.
RE: .  
Metnut : 5/17/2018 4:53 pm : link
In comment 13966886 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I'm nervous about the idea of selling everything off for prospects because I am starting to have serious doubts about the way the Mets are developing them.

We could get a ton for deGrom, Thor, etc.. but if we muff the development of the players we get, then we're really in deep shit.


I'd be fine with this if we had a new GM and new management. Can't trust Sandy and his eye for talent to restock the system given his track record.
You guys are missing a huge difference between Sandy/Omar - $  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2018 5:15 pm : link
Under Omar the Mets were top 2-5 in payroll almost every year. Sandy came in and had to dramatically slash salary. The highest payroll he's ever had to work with is 12th and most of the years he's been here he has been around 20th.

In Omar's first offseason he signed Beltran and Pedro. Wagner, K-Rod, Delgado. Santana. Bay. The relative $ cost of all those guys was far beyond what Sandy has been able to spend on anyone other than Cespedes.

In Omar's 6 years he may have had a slightly better win %, but with much more $ to work with he made 1 NLCS. Sandy got the Madoff mess, Wright with a broken back, and still won the division just as many times as Omar did (not to mention the WS appearance).
RE: You guys are missing a huge difference between Sandy/Omar - $  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2018 5:20 pm : link
In comment 13966901 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Under Omar the Mets were top 2-5 in payroll almost every year. Sandy came in and had to dramatically slash salary. The highest payroll he's ever had to work with is 12th and most of the years he's been here he has been around 20th.

In Omar's first offseason he signed Beltran and Pedro. Wagner, K-Rod, Delgado. Santana. Bay. The relative $ cost of all those guys was far beyond what Sandy has been able to spend on anyone other than Cespedes.

In Omar's 6 years he may have had a slightly better win %, but with much more $ to work with he made 1 NLCS. Sandy got the Madoff mess, Wright with a broken back, and still won the division just as many times as Omar did (not to mention the WS appearance).


They can both be bad. Sandy had money to spend this off-season and through 39 games has 0.0 fWAR to show for it. Unless you think Jeff insisted on giving Jason Vargas 2 years etc it's hard to put this as the Wilpons feed outside of "ideally they would spend more".
I don't disagree, I wouldn't characterize either as good  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2018 5:23 pm : link
I do think Sandy is better than Omar by a good margin though.
I didn't miss it  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 5:24 pm : link
I said Sandy never had to deal with the whole Madoff mess.

Now some people on here however will tell you the payroll under Sandy is not currently a concern and it hasn't been the past couple seasons either, that he's just operating the best way he sees fit.

To which I always counter, that wasn't how he operated with the A's until the new owners told him he had to slash payroll.

anyway, Omar had a budget too even if not to the same extent, and it's why the Mets wound up with Jason Bay and not Matt Holliday.

RE: I didn't miss it  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 5:24 pm : link
In comment 13966909 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I said Sandy never had to deal with the whole Madoff mess.

Now some people on here however will tell you the payroll under Sandy is not currently a concern and it hasn't been the past couple seasons either, that he's just operating the best way he sees fit.

To which I always counter, that wasn't how he operated with the A's until the new owners told him he had to slash payroll.

anyway, Omar had a budget too even if not to the same extent, and it's why the Mets wound up with Jason Bay and not Matt Holliday.


that should say *Omar* never had to deal with the Madoff mess
I mean we're rightly critical of Sandy's drafts, but look at Omar's  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2018 5:30 pm : link
05. Pelfrey
06. no pick
07. Eddie Kunz
07. Nathan Vineyard
08. Ike Davis
08. Reese Havens
08. Bradley Holt
09. no pick
10. Harvey

Am I wrong or did 4 of those guys never even get a call up?

Conforto and Fulmer alone put that list to shame. Nevermind that Dom Smith, Plawecki, Nimmo are still viable (and Dunn/kay/Peterson looking good so far this year).
The 2015 Mets  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 5:36 pm : link
were mostly Omar players.

Of course Sandy deserves the credit for reaching the WS, but to ignore Omar's impact on that team is intentionally ignoring it.

Impact players on 2015 Mets acquired during Omar's tenure:

deGrom
Harvey
Matz
Murphy
Familia
Duda
Flores


Impact players on 2015 Mets Sandy acquired
Thor
Cespedes
Reed
Conforto
Granderson

Maybe missing one or two, but I think that's a decent list.

And Thor was acquired with a player Sandy inherited from Omar, great trade and Sandy deserves the credit for it, but he didn't bring in Dickey.

RE: I didn't miss it  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2018 5:42 pm : link
In comment 13966909 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I said Sandy never had to deal with the whole Madoff mess.

Now some people on here however will tell you the payroll under Sandy is not currently a concern and it hasn't been the past couple seasons either, that he's just operating the best way he sees fit.

To which I always counter, that wasn't how he operated with the A's until the new owners told him he had to slash payroll.

anyway, Omar had a budget too even if not to the same extent, and it's why the Mets wound up with Jason Bay and not Matt Holliday.


I wasn't responded specifically to you, just making the larger point about payroll because I think it's an enormous factor to consider. In 2009 (year they signed bay) they had the 2nd highest payroll in baseball. The 2n highest payroll in baseball today is $50m more than the Mets (and this year's team is tied for the highest ranked payroll in Sandy's tenure).
mlb payrolls year by year - ( New Window )
RE: I mean we're rightly critical of Sandy's drafts, but look at Omar's  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 5:45 pm : link
In comment 13966916 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
05. Pelfrey
06. no pick
07. Eddie Kunz
07. Nathan Vineyard
08. Ike Davis
08. Reese Havens
08. Bradley Holt
09. no pick
10. Harvey

Am I wrong or did 4 of those guys never even get a call up?

Conforto and Fulmer alone put that list to shame. Nevermind that Dom Smith, Plawecki, Nimmo are still viable (and Dunn/kay/Peterson looking good so far this year).


Sandy has already been Mets GM longer than Omar, when you compare drafts I think Omar's results are better - depending on the results of players TBD later in Sandy's tenure.

Guys like deGrom, Harvey, Murphy, Duda, Matz - if you add up the WAR of drafted players I'm pretty sure Omar would win.

Plus his IFA signings did ok too, like Familia, Flores, Mejia (until he didn't), Lagares - these guys get signed so young it's too early to tell on Sandy.

RE: The 2015 Mets  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2018 5:57 pm : link
In comment 13966918 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
were mostly Omar players.

Of course Sandy deserves the credit for reaching the WS, but to ignore Omar's impact on that team is intentionally ignoring it.

Impact players on 2015 Mets acquired during Omar's tenure:

deGrom
Harvey
Matz
Murphy
Familia
Duda
Flores


Impact players on 2015 Mets Sandy acquired
Thor
Cespedes
Reed
Conforto
Granderson

Maybe missing one or two, but I think that's a decent list.

And Thor was acquired with a player Sandy inherited from Omar, great trade and Sandy deserves the credit for it, but he didn't bring in Dickey.


That WS was 5 years after Omar left. I in no way disagree that Omar deserves some credit for drafting/signing Harvey, JDG, Familia, etc. but not to the extent of minimizing the credit Alderson deserves for actually being the GM when they got their and while they did the majority of their development.

Putting Sandy aside for a second, Omar's record speaks for itself - he made the playoffs 1 time in 6 years despite a very high payroll. Do you really have any confidence he'd do a better job the second time around with a much lower relative payroll?
I don't want Omar to be GM  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 6:01 pm : link
that's not my point. I said he seemed to have no long-term plan or strategy.

My point is only that Omar acquired better players. Better drafts, better FA signings, and a couple good trades.
RE: I don't want Omar to be GM  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2018 6:10 pm : link
In comment 13966930 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
that's not my point. I said he seemed to have no long-term plan or strategy.

My point is only that Omar acquired better players. Better drafts, better FA signings, and a couple good trades.


Got it, just agree to disagree. I think Sandy's drafts haven't had as many total busts and his trades have been generally strong. Omar's FA signings were better because he had more money. But KRod and Bay were obviously disasters.
RE: The 2015 Mets  
Vanzetti : 5/17/2018 6:21 pm : link
In comment 13966918 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
were mostly Omar players.

Of course Sandy deserves the credit for reaching the WS, but to ignore Omar's impact on that team is intentionally ignoring it.

Impact players on 2015 Mets acquired during Omar's tenure:

deGrom
Harvey
Matz
Murphy
Familia
Duda
Flores


Impact players on 2015 Mets Sandy acquired
Thor
Cespedes
Reed
Conforto
Granderson

Maybe missing one or two, but I think that's a decent list.

And Thor was acquired with a player Sandy inherited from Omar, great trade and Sandy deserves the credit for it, but he didn't bring in Dickey.



Your list includes free agents and trades. In that case you have to add the following to Omar's list:


Carlos Beltran
Pedro Martinez
Carlos Delgado

Which means Omar's acquisitions completely blow Sandy's out of the water.

re: money  
Vanzetti : 5/17/2018 6:28 pm : link
Sandy actually did do a good job when he had little to spend (except for letting Turner go instead of offering arbitration)

But he was really awful when he had a big budget after the 2015 and 2016 seasons. And like Dan said he spent 54 million this offseason for 0 WAR. Hard to defend the last three offseasons

Sandy is really an organizational guy rather than a baseball guy. He is someone you hire when a team is a mess and you need to get everything back in order.

People lean on the 2015 WS as if he built some great team to get there  
PhiPsi125 : 5/17/2018 6:47 pm : link
He didnít. That season was a pout the flukiest season a team could have. The Mets were horrible for most of the season, then traded for Cespedes (a player he didnít even want), then rode a historic August and floundering Nationals to win the pennant. Fluke.

I understand that you canít take it away from him, but I sure as hell donít have to believe itís some great feather in his cap either. Sure, had he actually built on that then weíd be having a different conversation...but thatís not the case. The ONLY thing Sandy had to do was burn it down and build it up. He failed in spectacular fashion. The Madoff mess did not interfere with a rebuild.

Sandy was forced on the Mets. Not really sure why he earned the extension but I really hope nobody is expecting a competitive team. Weíve got about another 8 years before we get that one shot in that one year.
The problem with this org is the Wilpons - Sandy & Omar are symptoms  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2018 6:58 pm : link
the Wilpons are the disease. Sandy should not have been extended because he's now had 3 bad offseasons in a row following the WS. I'm just not looking forward to Omar act 2 at all - and realistically I believe that's what the alternative to Sandy would be. Any sensible ownership would turn the page and conduct a competent search to find the best GM candidate possible. We know the Wilpons won't do that because they are the problem.
RE: People lean on the 2015 WS as if he built some great team to get there  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2018 7:09 pm : link
In comment 13966963 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
He didnít. That season was a pout the flukiest season a team could have. The Mets were horrible for most of the season, then traded for Cespedes (a player he didnít even want), then rode a historic August and floundering Nationals to win the pennant. Fluke.

I understand that you canít take it away from him, but I sure as hell donít have to believe itís some great feather in his cap either. Sure, had he actually built on that then weíd be having a different conversation...but thatís not the case. The ONLY thing Sandy had to do was burn it down and build it up. He failed in spectacular fashion. The Madoff mess did not interfere with a rebuild.

Sandy was forced on the Mets. Not really sure why he earned the extension but I really hope nobody is expecting a competitive team. Weíve got about another 8 years before we get that one shot in that one year.


I'm not leaning on the 2015 WS team any more than anyone who prefers Omar leans on the 06 team. Both GM's only won 1 division before the wheels came off. Neither one can point to a good track record. The difference IMO is Omar always had a highly competitive budget to work with whereas Sandy did not. I give him credit for the limited successes he had in tough circumstances.
The team is becoming unwatchable and these threads  
Rob in Rockaway : 5/17/2018 7:42 pm : link
are actually worse.
RE: RE: People lean on the 2015 WS as if he built some great team to get there  
PhiPsi125 : 5/17/2018 8:19 pm : link
In comment 13966979 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


I'm not leaning on the 2015 WS team any more than anyone who prefers Omar leans on the 06 team. Both GM's only won 1 division before the wheels came off. Neither one can point to a good track record. The difference IMO is Omar always had a highly competitive budget to work with whereas Sandy did not. I give him credit for the limited successes he had in tough circumstances.


Omar at least had a couple of competitive seasons after 2006 that unfortunately ended with complete collapses. But at least you could enjoy the seasons past Memorial Day.

Yes, Omar had more of a budget to work with. But Sandy was brought here to rebuild. Budget doesnít really factor into that. Iíd give Sandy credit if he was actually able to rebuild the team. He did not and now we are talking about going through another rebuild shortly after just rebuilding the team lol. Couldnít rebuild the team. His FA signings are a complete zero.

Neither GM were great. But Iíd bet on Omar over Sandy 100 times out of 100.
LIghtning  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 8:26 pm : link
answer, pretty goal by Point on the pass from Gourde after the give away from Kempny.
whoops  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 8:26 pm : link
.
RE: The problem with this org is the Wilpons - Sandy & Omar are symptoms  
Vanzetti : 5/17/2018 8:53 pm : link
In comment 13966968 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
the Wilpons are the disease. Sandy should not have been extended because he's now had 3 bad offseasons in a row following the WS. I'm just not looking forward to Omar act 2 at all - and realistically I believe that's what the alternative to Sandy would be. Any sensible ownership would turn the page and conduct a competent search to find the best GM candidate possible. We know the Wilpons won't do that because they are the problem.



This is completely true. Mets wind up with guys like Omar and Sandy because none of the top GM candidates want the Mets job because of the Wilpons
.  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 9:02 pm : link
Quote:

Tim Healey
‏Verified account @timbhealey
5h5 hours ago

Double-A OPS leaders:

1. Peter Alonso (NYM): 1.163
2. Cavan Biggio (TOR): 1.161
3. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. (TOR): 1.155
McNeil 4 for 5 with a HR and 4 RBI  
Vanzetti : 5/17/2018 9:02 pm : link
I think his OPS is now higher than Alonso's.

Of course, he has Alonso hitting behind him, so he is getting pitches to hit. Ole Pete was 1 for 3 with 2 BB
McNeil  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 9:05 pm : link
white hot, absolutely on fire.

today:

4 for 4, 1 HR, 4 RBI.

Crismatt had a decent start. Decent season so far.
Or what  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2018 9:05 pm : link
Vanzetti said.
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