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Why Nate Solder is Worth the Huge Contract | Film Review

Tom from LI : 5/18/2018 7:08 am
**Why Nate Solder is Worth the Huge Contract | Film Review | NFL Network**

"Brian Baldinger breaks down how the signing of left tackle Nate Solder will be a huge upgrade to the New York Giants offensive line."

When you watch this I don't think it matters who the QB was last year. Our tackles were putrid.

Nate Solder is a major upgrade - ( New Window )
Some of that breakdown film on Solder didn't even look that good  
Jimmy Googs : 5/18/2018 7:25 am : link
but compared to Flowers he's in the Hall of Fame...
RE: Some of that breakdown film on Solder didn't even look that good  
Tom from LI : 5/18/2018 7:30 am : link
In comment 13967179 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
but compared to Flowers he's in the Hall of Fame...


I agree, but even when he was beat he kept working to stay in the play, Hart was a total abomination.
Biggest two reasons for the lost 2017 season  
Jimmy Googs : 5/18/2018 7:33 am : link
1. OBJ gets hurt (twice)
2. Reese/McAdoo guarantee starting gigs to Flowers & Hart

Those clips are  
RottenApple : 5/18/2018 7:37 am : link
pathetic. Not quite sure why anybody would think Flowers can play RT. His technique is abysmal.
Outside of Rodgers and Wilson, no QB would do well with that line  
George from PA : 5/18/2018 7:40 am : link
7 years of a shitty OL.....amazing waste
RE: Biggest two reasons for the lost 2017 season  
superspynyg : 5/18/2018 8:10 am : link
In comment 13967183 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
1. OBJ gets hurt (twice)
2. Reese/McAdoo guarantee starting gigs to Flowers & Hart


I think that McAdoo’s terrible offensive system as a whole was the biggest reason this team with OBJ #2 and Flowers/Hart #3.
Agree 100%  
ZogZerg : 5/18/2018 8:16 am : link
Can't win in this league when your QB is constantly getting harassed before he can even get set.
Solder is the best LT the Giants have had in a long time  
Heisenberg : 5/18/2018 8:24 am : link
Worth the money, IMO. And perhaps Flowers/Wheeler can upgrade RT.
Been saying it over and over again since around 2013ish  
BlueHurricane : 5/18/2018 8:32 am : link
Reese destroyed a lot of Manning's potential with a total failure of offensive lineman. Even when he tried to address the line he swung and missed repeatedly. Borders on criminal and it is amazing Eli for the most part survived it. Can't wait for him to shut up the haters now that he has a different line in front of him.
I really don't understand  
Gman11 : 5/18/2018 8:39 am : link
Flowers has terrible technique, so put him at RT. Terrible technique is terrible technique no matter where you put him. He'll still give up pressures and sacks.
RE: Been saying it over and over again since around 2013ish  
Les in TO : 5/18/2018 8:45 am : link
In comment 13967216 BlueHurricane said:
Quote:
Reese destroyed a lot of Manning's potential with a total failure of offensive lineman. Even when he tried to address the line he swung and missed repeatedly. Borders on criminal and it is amazing Eli for the most part survived it. Can't wait for him to shut up the haters now that he has a different line in front of him.
yes Reese and Coughlin’s offensive line selections are akin to murder rape and burglary
Wheeler  
Marty866b : 5/18/2018 8:47 am : link
Really needs to be competent because seeing film on Flowers is scary bad. I don't see why switching sides will improve his abysmal play. He is awful.
RE: I really don't understand  
Heisenberg : 5/18/2018 8:49 am : link
In comment 13967221 Gman11 said:
Quote:
Flowers has terrible technique, so put him at RT. Terrible technique is terrible technique no matter where you put him. He'll still give up pressures and sacks.


Well, to improve RT, he doesn't have to be good, he just needs to be better than Hart, etc, was last year. Even with bad technique, that's a possibility.
If your technique sucks on the left side...  
Klaatu : 5/18/2018 8:59 am : link
Why does anyone think it won't on the right side?
Great breakdown....  
Britt in VA : 5/18/2018 9:04 am : link
unbelievable that our line had 2 recent 1st round picks and a high 2nd round pick on it.

Pathetic.
One the one hand  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/18/2018 9:14 am : link
He's not Anthony f***ing Munoz so he's not worth the huge contract. On the other hand we desperately needed his skill and leadership.
RE: I really don't understand  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/18/2018 9:19 am : link
In comment 13967221 Gman11 said:
Quote:
Flowers has terrible technique, so put him at RT. Terrible technique is terrible technique no matter where you put him. He'll still give up pressures and sacks.


He is horrific and hopeless against speedy pass rushers like Ansah in isolated open space LT face. In theory he has more bodies around him at RT and a slower LDE to deal with. Also handedness comes into play, you usually see RBs making better blocks to the right. For someone without good technique, could be a big factor.
RE: If your technique sucks on the left side...  
PatersonPlank : 5/18/2018 9:31 am : link
In comment 13967250 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Why does anyone think it won't on the right side?


+1. Lots of teams in today's NFL have 2 DE's that can rush the passer not just one. Also, if I am a DC with only one pass rusher, you can bet I'm moving him around to line up vs Flowers on the right side. I can see a player improving with a move to G from T, that is a different position requiring different skill sets. However from LT to RT I just think its wishful thinking.
RE: Wheeler  
Beezer : 5/18/2018 9:32 am : link
In comment 13967224 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Really needs to be competent because seeing film on Flowers is scary bad. I don't see why switching sides will improve his abysmal play. He is awful.


This is what I think, as well.

I'm not clear on how some are realistically expecting Flowers to do even an adequate job on the right side.

Is it that they believe the line will be so much better as a whole, so that Flowers might get better help?

I can see a strategy where you run plays with a blocking TE on that side, or send a FB (if we keep one - I'm guessing we do) to that side?

How nice would it be NOT to have to scheme to help our RT?

Let's go Wheels!
I have no idea if Eli is still a top half of the league QB  
arniefez : 5/18/2018 9:35 am : link
But I'm 100% certain that he played with the two worst tackles in the NFL for more than just last year. He had no chance.No QB would have any chance.
Whats interesting to me is how varied the opinions can be  
Brown Recluse : 5/18/2018 9:54 am : link
among current and former players as to whether a player can successfully transition from one side to the other.

Some say its easy and some say it isn't. We've seen some players do it successfully and some that haven't.



Isnt one of the typical progressions to start someone on the Right  
Jimmy Googs : 5/18/2018 10:05 am : link
and then move them to Left Tackle after they get their feet wet, with presumption that RT is less demanding to some degree.

RE: Isnt one of the typical progressions to start someone on the Right  
regulator : 5/18/2018 10:36 am : link
In comment 13967368 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and then move them to Left Tackle after they get their feet wet, with presumption that RT is less demanding to some degree.


That's what was "supposed" to happen with Flowers, but "Mr. Softee" Will Beatty went down and Flowers got pressed into LT long before his technique was at NFL-level. It still isn't, and it wouldn't have been at RT in 2015 even if Flowers had played there per the master plan.

Watching Flowers in those clips makes me cringe. He has an irresistible urge to bend at the hips, put his face into blocks, and flare his arms out around defenders, making him susceptible to ANY move, especially to the inside. It's true that one he gets on a defender, it's pretty much over, but in practice, with Flowers, that's really only the case in the run game because his body demeanor and orientation preclude him from having the proper leverage to kick or post back up effectively.

Also, one thing I notice about Flowers and Hart watching pass pro cutups... NO PUNCH, EVER!!! Literally, it never happens. I wonder how much of that is attributable to coaching? "You get what you emphasize, you get what you tolerate."

On the other hand, Solder does a nice job with his punch, maintains good hand position, and usually keeps his upper body out of blocks, creating space between his body and the defender. He uses his hands well, on a consistent basis. That's good technique. Regardless of cost, Solder is going to be a massive, noticeable upgrade over Flowers on Eli's blind side, and it will pay dividends.
IF  
Joey in VA : 5/18/2018 12:18 pm : link
Flowers gets with the program I think he makes a big leap this year, I really do. After that Ansah debacle he played solidly for the most part. He's an enormous powerful dude, I think he makes a go of it at RT.
RE: IF  
Big Blue '56 : 5/18/2018 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13967595 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Flowers gets with the program I think he makes a big leap this year, I really do. After that Ansah debacle he played solidly for the most part. He's an enormous powerful dude, I think he makes a go of it at RT.


Probably and then he leaves after the season for FA
Honestly expected Solder to fetch closer to $20M/year.  
jogo1 : 5/18/2018 1:06 pm : link
He isn't one of the top guys, but he was the only starting-caliber tackle to hit the market, and this is after two consecutive draft classes that lacked high-end prospects at the position. Glad they were able to land him, even if Norwell is the better player.
Flowers at RT  
giants#1 : 5/18/2018 1:10 pm : link
1. With only one awful tackle they can use the TEs and RBs to help out.

2. If a teams best DE is the RDE, he might not be as comfortable and effectiverushing from LDE.
RE: I really don't understand  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/18/2018 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13967221 Gman11 said:
Quote:
Flowers has terrible technique, so put him at RT. Terrible technique is terrible technique no matter where you put him. He'll still give up pressures and sacks.


To understand it, you would first have to start from the point where we look at what he can do objectively. He's not clueless or incapable. Greg Robinson, a recent top 10 pick who was a spectacular bust, is a good example of a player who actually can't play. Bobby Hart can't play. Flowers can, but his issues are related to technique and consistency.

Putting him at RT gives him a better chance to succeed. Not asking him to pass protect as much, combined with better players around him, should get better results.
With Flowers  
XBRONX : 5/18/2018 1:34 pm : link
at RT Eli can see the hit coming
It's not just about protecting Eli.  
Klaatu : 5/18/2018 1:46 pm : link
He's got to run-block, too, and for all of his size and strength, you'd be hard-pressed to refer to him as a "road-grader."
I doubt Flowers  
mrvax : 5/18/2018 1:58 pm : link
will start at RT. Maybe Wheeler.
Hopefully Shurmur who  
TMS : 5/18/2018 2:11 pm : link
knows OL play very well will get involved. Four year starter ai Michigan state. OC for the Eagles as well. He knows our needs and how much it could mean if we get Flowers, who tries hard and wants to learn, to develop. Flowers is certainly big enough with an attitude. Bring in smeone to work just with him for awhile. Maybe it happens.
Also, you can't discount the value of bringing in some  
regulator : 5/18/2018 2:12 pm : link
professional, veteran linemen, especially from a winning program like NE, into the OL meeting room.

I think the example set by Solder, Omameh and even Greco (going into his 11th year in the league, so he knows what it takes) can go a long way to changing the culture of our line.
RE: Also, you can't discount the value of bringing in some  
TMS : 5/18/2018 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13967745 regulator said:
Quote:
professional, veteran linemen, especially from a winning program like NE, into the OL meeting room.

I think the example set by Solder, Omameh and even Greco (going into his 11th year in the league, so he knows what it takes) can go a long way to changing the culture of our line.
Great point.
Wondering if maybe the coaches can  
chopperhatch : 5/18/2018 5:02 pm : link
Convince him of his star potential at RG. Leonard Davis had a very similar career path. Aafter being an a failure at LT including being amongst the most penalized players in the league, he went to Dallas and became a 3 time pro bowler.

Ask Steve Hutchinson if theres no money at Guard. Great money as a guard is better than shit money as a tackle.
Sinorice Moss syndrome  
JohnF : 5/18/2018 6:56 pm : link
combined with lack of depth at LT (who goes there if Solder is injured?).

Teams NEVER give up on 1st round choices if there's a glint of hope, or if there is no one behind the choice. The Giants need to draft a few more tackles next year, I think.
I hope that Flowers can be our RT  
GeorgeAdams33 : 5/18/2018 8:04 pm : link
I am hoping that a switch actually helps him in the long run because of the fact that he will have to start fresh on building his techniques. If he is no longer on the left he will no longer be doing what he is used to. If he has to rethink it all he might get it right now that he know what doesn't work.

Plus, he will have more edge help from a TE on the strong side.
Flowers never had the skill set needed for LT  
George from PA : 5/19/2018 6:54 am : link
Their biggest mistake was to not have Pugh play LT and Flower RT after Beatty got hurt.

Flower had to play with too wide a stance to pass protect which identified pass/run plays ahead of time....we sit by the end zone and my son knew the play, if it was a run or pass just by Flowers feet placement....he then started to just keep them wide all the time which hurt his run blocking but helped his pass blocking.

Wheeler has much better athleticism but was not nearly strong enough...if he truly gain 20+ lbs....he might beat out Flowers out right at RT.....and Flowers can just be the swing tackle his final year.
Solder was overpaid. But we didn't have much choice.  
Ira : 5/19/2018 8:33 am : link
That was the market.
RE: RE: Also, you can't discount the value of bringing in some  
Klaatu : 5/19/2018 10:44 am : link
In comment 13967802 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 13967745 regulator said:


Quote:


professional, veteran linemen, especially from a winning program like NE, into the OL meeting room.

I think the example set by Solder, Omameh and even Greco (going into his 11th year in the league, so he knows what it takes) can go a long way to changing the culture of our line.

Great point.


If what Collins said is true, and Flowers was pissed because the Giants signed Solder (which is why he didn't show up to the voluntary workout), why do you think Solder's presence will make Flowers a better player? Solder is a constant reminder that Flowers couldn't get the job done and finally lost his spot. You might figure he'd take that as a wake-up call and bust his ass as hard as he could to improve his game and get back in the good graces of his team, but I think you'd be wrong.

I figure Flowers knows that his days with the Giants are numbered. They didn't pick up his option, and the odds are they won't re-sign him. He hired Rosenhaus to get him the best deal possible once he hits the open market.
RE: Solder was overpaid. But we didn't have much choice.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/19/2018 10:48 am : link
In comment 13968205 Ira said:
Quote:
That was the market.


Nowadays, good players are massively overpaid, imo. So I no longer blink or care, as long as we can STILL acquire productive players for a starting role or depth..

We massively overpaid, for example, Chris Canty, but to this fan he was worth every penny given his productivity during our last SB year.
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