My recollections of a solid offensive line on the Giants are that - it doesn't have to be spectacular - but it does have to be cohesive.
in 2007 you had Kareem McKenzie (Key FA), Rich Suebert(UDFA), Shawn O'Hara(Key FA), Chris Snee(2nd Round), and Dave Diehl(5th Round)
in 2011 Will Beatty (2nd Round) went down and you had Dave Diehl (5th Round), Kevin Booth (Back up FA), David Baas (Key FA), Chris Snee (2nd Round) and Kareem McKenzie (Key FA)
The hallmark of those guys always seemed to be that they palled around as a group and genuinely liked and supported each other
When I look at the prospects for this years Offensive line I could see Nate Solder (Key FA), Will Hernandez (2nd Round), Brett Jones (UDFA), getting along --
but my worries are about the Right side - where a combo coming out of Eric Flowers (1rst Round), Patrick Omaneh (Key FA), Chad Wheeler (UDFA), John Jerry (FA), John Grecco (FA), Nick Gates (UDFA) and Nick Becton (UDFA) are going to have to arise
The most obvious candidate to man Right Tackle is going to be Eric Flowers, who last year on all accounts did his utmost to alienate himself from the rest of the Offensive line players along with Bobby Hart
I think that with the talent the Giants have assembled (Beckham, Engram, Barkley) and even with good bit players like Shep and Rhett, without the ability of the line to become cohesive like you saw in -- 2007 and 2011 -- the Giants will still not go very far -- which is pretty much the story of the past three years.
I really don't think Eli and his age are the problem. There are plenty of QBs in the NFL that are Eli's Age or older who are still performing at a high level (see Roethlisberger, Rivers from his draft class, and see also Brees and Brady). In my mind it's about having cohesion and confidence in front of him. In order to have that the Giants have to lose the Flowers of the past three years. That guy was pure poison to cohesion.
It would be astonishing to see this line play as well. My guess, there is an improvement. There should be fewer runners tackled behind the line, more conversions of 3rd or 4th and short and some semblance of a 4 min game.
I agree with Gidie s assessment of Eli, even though I was hoping they drafted Darnold as his successor.
I hope Jones can hold....I feel better with Hernandez and Omearsh....so Jones can not allow to be pushed into Eli's lap.
My understanding is that Flowers was a reach where we picked him, and not many teams thought he could play left tackle. I think we had a decent Oline coach under McAdoo.
There was a story last year about how Eric Flowers and Bobby Hart refused to participate in some off the field stuff with the rest of the Oline
My understanding is that Flowers was a reach where we picked him, and not many teams thought he could play left tackle. I think we had a decent Oline coach under McAdoo.
This has nothing to do with a reach -- it has to do with the guy's attitude
Pugh playing guard allowed Manning( a statue) to be touched the least amount of times during his starts at that position of any guard in the league . You are talking from thy asshole
Its lack is as much a fault of the owners, the management and the coaching staff as it is of the players.
Giants Pride
Giants Pride
Giants Pride
Giants Pride
Giants Pride
Giants Pride
Giants Pride
Giants Pride
Giants Pride
if not, then it'll be a problem
Reese. His only good even slightly above a ereagd addition via the draft in 11 years was Pugh. How many OL coaches did they have in that time
And he he sucked in gettingthem in FA. Not sure if OL coach wasn’t an issue to but Reese was a horrifically bad GM since he and his staff just couldn’t ever build a whole cohesive roster. He did get some very good picks. But always in the area of WRs or DBs. His hits outside of that were way to few. Absolute shit after round 2 on the whole.
Then when he missed where he did pick lots of positions he went out and spent big straining the cap. But seriously. In 11 years if you and your staff can only grab one injury prone solid G?
The Reese fans are still here and now just laying low. I expect them to come out the second this year’s team stumbles once
Yes, the Giants are better if he succeeds. But imv, we may also be better if someone else does instead...
If you go by the FA money Pugh and Richberg got you’d think he wasn’t too far off. On the field though Pugh was just better than average and Richberg was worse than average. The miss on Flowers was huge. Also, remember over the past couple of years FA OL pickings were very slim as most here agreed. It was certainly a talent issue though with some injury issues mixed in.
Name the veteran RT you want the Giants to sign, and then explain why he'd be better than anyone currently on the roster.
Imho flowers needs to learn to trust or improve his balance and power and not lean forward so fucking much. I mean, at what point was technique compounding his weaknesses?
*sigh*
The problem wasn't that he "ignored" the OL. The problem was that they picked the wrong players at the wrong time. They reached for position; They overdrafted Pugh and Flowers both out of desperation. Richburg was a 2nd rounder, and didn't live up to his draft position. Pugh isn't a first round talent.
People keep saying that the OL was ignored, and I'm wondering what drafts they were watching.
Quote:
My understanding is that Flowers was a reach where we picked him, and not many teams thought he could play left tackle. I think we had a decent Oline coach under McAdoo.
This has nothing to do with a reach -- it has to do with the guy's attitude
Gidie, this also is not just about Flowers. He was responding to my question about the OL in general. Whether Reese was just piss poor at evaluating OL talent OR whether the OL coach was not doing his job. Doesn't it seem a little odd that virtually all of the guys we brought in under performed?
I hope Jones can hold....I feel better with Hernandez and Omearsh....so Jones can not allow to be pushed into Eli's lap.
Interior pressure is Eli's Achille's heel. Justin Smith was the player I feared most, he clearly gave Eli fits even when our oline wasn't horrible. I really didn't worry about Ware, blow by Diehl for a couple of sacks and stop a drive or two, but that's about it.
Hernandez hopefully will help Eli as much as Barkley.
Quote:
but it wasn't just flowers. The interior line didn't hold up either which include Richburg and Pugh who were always being pushed back into the pocket. If the Oline can come together this team will be good if not the Oline will become a 2 year project. At least DG recognized the problem which Reese would ignore.
*sigh*
The problem wasn't that he "ignored" the OL. The problem was that they picked the wrong players at the wrong time. They reached for position; They overdrafted Pugh and Flowers both out of desperation. Richburg was a 2nd rounder, and didn't live up to his draft position. Pugh isn't a first round talent.
People keep saying that the OL was ignored, and I'm wondering what drafts they were watching.
2010, 2011, 2012...nothing but Day 3 picks...which led to reaches in 2013, 2014, and 2015. 2016 and 2017 combined? Adam Bisnowaty.
It seemed like diehl just went right to ware and made a collision, shoulder, face, chest, whatever, as opposed to crouch and wait like some wanna be ninja.
Interesting to see- flowers if he progresses .....what techniques are employed.
It seemed like diehl just went right to ware and made a collision, shoulder, face, chest, whatever, as opposed to crouch and wait like some wanna be ninja.
Interesting to see- flowers if he progresses .....what techniques are employed.
Diehl did yeoman's work at LT, which is tremendous for a versatile 5th round guard, but he did have trouble with speedy edge rushers.
Quote:
but it wasn't just flowers. The interior line didn't hold up either which include Richburg and Pugh who were always being pushed back into the pocket. If the Oline can come together this team will be good if not the Oline will become a 2 year project. At least DG recognized the problem which Reese would ignore.
Pugh playing guard allowed Manning( a statue) to be touched the least amount of times during his starts at that position of any guard in the league . You are talking from thy asshole
Manning was one of the fastest QBs getting the ball out. I guess you don't find that relevant
Seems like ware had some speed and power.
And that when Deihl did well he just basically ran into him directly and maybe added a helmet smash. Then it's just forearms for grabbing, then the plays over.
Maybe not Textbook....but....
Quote:
My understanding is that Flowers was a reach where we picked him, and not many teams thought he could play left tackle. I think we had a decent Oline coach under McAdoo.
This has nothing to do with a reach -- it has to do with the guy's attitude
gidiefor- its both at this point. Flowers was a reach where we drafted him to play left tackle. We can agree to disagree. Pretty sure SY’56 said he didn’t think Flowers had what it takes to be a left tackle when he was drafted. Many teams didn’t think he was left tackle material at the NFL level. Reese thought otherwise. Flowers has had issues with technique since we drafted him and it hasn’t gotten better. I think Flowers has lost his confidence and doesn’t handle criticism well. Let hope he can turn it around at right tackle. He might be our best option next year if his attitude improves.
The key is not to have a weak link.
I like the one-two punch that Barkley and Gallman bring at RB. I like having a FB and/or a TE helping to pave the way, too. Still, an efficient and successful running game starts up front, and I hope the steps the Giants are taking in that regard pay off. We'll see.
In other words; with strong outside runs one way, you don't even need play action to create hesitation on the part of defenders, just show that line action one way and roll the other, sealing the backside.
You start constantly playing with East/West and straight up the gut in terms of line play, you steal the initiative back from the D.
...and in my opinion, Mara fucked up by not replacing Reese the day he fired Coughlin and by hiring McAdoo as the head coach Not sure WTF he was thinking. Everyone knew neither Reese nor McAdoo were the answers. All Mara did was kick the can down the road and here we are...
It's just - running well very generally helps your pass blocking, well beyond the strictly defined play action plays.
The ideal scenario would be for Flowers to play well at RT with Wheeler serving as the swing tackle and then taking over in a year when Flowers leaves via FA. Let's hope that Gettleman finds another Norwell or Remmers out of Gates, Brown, Cooper, Bunche, and Howell. I am excited to see how Brown does versus the veterans after the solid reports from rookie minicamp. The backup center job is wide open.
Quote:
but it wasn't just flowers. The interior line didn't hold up either which include Richburg and Pugh who were always being pushed back into the pocket. If the Oline can come together this team will be good if not the Oline will become a 2 year project. At least DG recognized the problem which Reese would ignore.
*sigh*
The problem wasn't that he "ignored" the OL. The problem was that they picked the wrong players at the wrong time. They reached for position; They overdrafted Pugh and Flowers both out of desperation. Richburg was a 2nd rounder, and didn't live up to his draft position. Pugh isn't a first round talent.
People keep saying that the OL was ignored, and I'm wondering what drafts they were watching.
Exactly! Overall, Reese put more high draft picks into the OLine than anyone since George Young did in 88 with #1 OT Eric Moore and #2 OT Jumbo Elliott and 89 with #1 C Brian Williams and #3 G Bob Kratch.