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NFT: Frustrated NBA Fan

QB Snacks : 5/21/2018 9:44 am
Boy, does the NBA stink right now or is just me? The talent level in the league may be at an all time high but it's about as noncompetitive as it can get.

Had draymond green not been suspended a few years back the warriors would be hoisting their 4th straight title next month. They'll be heavy favorites to win the title again next year.

This is, at max, a 2-3 team league. Everyone else is just playing for revenue. With the ability to go over the cap, 7 game series in each round, there is no chance for upsets or Cinderella stories. Our 07 run would never occur in the NBA.

There is some great basketball being played but it's just not compelling at all.
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RE: RE: 3 changes need to be made in the NBA  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 10:25 am : link
In comment 13969718 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13969714 dep026 said:


Quote:


1. 5 second call with or without dribbling. No more of the James harden holding it for 15 seconds than driving. More ball movement means better basketball.
2. Hard cap. 19 teams over the salary cap. Just asinine how Lebron and CP3 screwed over quality to ensure their pockets and super teams.
3. Trades have to be equal as far as $$$$ are concerned. Set values of first round picks to be included in trades.



I don't get #2. Having a hard cap and nixing the max contract would double Lebron's salary so how does having it this way deepen it?


I donít care what individuals make. But it prevents super teams. If the cap this year is 100 million and you want to pay Lebron 40... good luck spending 60 on 14 other guys. This luxury tax is bullshit.
I walked away from the NBA years ago...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/21/2018 10:25 am : link
I know fans hate it when others dump on the league, but seeing as how that's the topic of this thread...

Michael Jordan killed the NBA imo. He was such a mega-star (rightfully so) and the league thought it was best to promote their stars. They began allowing him to travel. Before long he was able to push off, including and especially in the most critical moments (in the NBA finals at the buzzer). It was obvious to me for a long time and wasn't just Jordan who got special treatment, but when Jordan was in his hey-day the league gave up on trying to enforce consistent rules.
Itís the same as itís always been  
Jim in Fairfax : 5/21/2018 10:28 am : link
The NBA has almost always been dominated by 1-2 teams. Over about the 70 year history of the leauge, the Celtics or Lakers have won nearly half of the championships. And even when itís another team, nearly every era is dominated by 1-2 teams. The Celtics winning 10 of 11 in the 60s. The Lakers and Celtics winning 8 in the 80s. The Bulls winning 6 in the 90s. The Lakers and Spurs winning 9 of 11 in the 00s. And now the Warriors and Cavs.

The style of play has changed over the years, but itís almost always been dominated by 1-2 teams.
RE: Other than MLB (which does suffer from lesser fundamentals)  
Sonic Youth : 5/21/2018 10:28 am : link
In comment 13969635 JonC said:
Quote:
the big pro sports quality of play has stunk for years.

Thank the modern CBA(s) for it.
I think the NHL has been fantastic the last few years.
RE: I walked away from the NBA years ago...  
QB Snacks : 5/21/2018 10:29 am : link
In comment 13969732 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
I know fans hate it when others dump on the league, but seeing as how that's the topic of this thread...

Michael Jordan killed the NBA imo. He was such a mega-star (rightfully so) and the league thought it was best to promote their stars. They began allowing him to travel. Before long he was able to push off, including and especially in the most critical moments (in the NBA finals at the buzzer). It was obvious to me for a long time and wasn't just Jordan who got special treatment, but when Jordan was in his hey-day the league gave up on trying to enforce consistent rules.


The idea that the NBA allowed Jordan to travel is one of the dumbest things I've ever read about the NBA.
Didn't mean to hit submit yet...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/21/2018 10:29 am : link
When the in-game analysts started openly acknowledging that star players get favorable calls at critical times ("you can't call that on Jordan in this moment") I gave up on the league. I figured the league was screwing itself by adjusting its rules to accommodate its stars.

So, it's no surprise that now the league has a situation where a handful of teams have a real chance every year. The other teams just don't have the same kind of advantages.
RE: I walked away from the NBA years ago...  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 13969732 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
I know fans hate it when others dump on the league, but seeing as how that's the topic of this thread...

Michael Jordan killed the NBA imo. He was such a mega-star (rightfully so) and the league thought it was best to promote their stars. They began allowing him to travel. Before long he was able to push off, including and especially in the most critical moments (in the NBA finals at the buzzer). It was obvious to me for a long time and wasn't just Jordan who got special treatment, but when Jordan was in his hey-day the league gave up on trying to enforce consistent rules.


The most overstated thing is Jordan push off in the finals. If a left handed ďpushĒ on a guys ass while he is crossing over is enough to force him out of the play... then your just making excuses. Seriously, try to push someone in the back let alone in the ass while crossing over and see how far they go.

And Patrick Ewing walked more than anybody probably in the history of the NBA.
NBA ha always been top heavy....  
Italianju : 5/21/2018 10:32 am : link
yes its a little worse right now cause of GSW. That said im not 100% sure HOU is out of that series. Look if GSW play well they are unbeatable, but HOU is not a bad team and if GSW plays average in a couple games HOU could beat them.

Your never going to have parity in the NBA because having one of the top players in the world means way more then it does in any other sport. Lebron can carry pretty much any nba team to 50 wins, there isnt another athlete in any sport who can make that kind of difference to the other teams in the league.

The NBA already restricts player movement so much, so im not sure that is the fix. Its not like GSW pulled a heat and signed all those guys together. They made great draft picks and then played the cap to get KD. Yes KD is the move that made them borderline unbeatable. Both the GSW and the Heat moves are outliers, they dont happen often. Nobody else has signed 3 max players together. OKC would have been close to following the GSW model, but they blew the Harden trade and then obviously lost KD.

Again KD is really what threw off the league balance. Put him back in OKC and you could have been looking at a West group that had HOU, OKC, and GSW battling it out. Sure the East is a mess but with up and coming teams like MIL/PHI combined with a healthy BOS squad and wherever Lebron ends up the East could be a lot more interesting next playoffs.
RE: RE: RE: giantfan  
giantsfan44ab : 5/21/2018 10:33 am : link
In comment 13969722 QB Snacks said:
Quote:
In comment 13969709 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13969692 QB Snacks said:


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I hate arguments like this. So because the NBA is making $ their product cant improve? No shit the league makes money hand over fist but that doesnt mean it's a compelling product. It can make more if the league had more drama and intrigue.


Why do you hate arguments like that? What do you do for a living? If the number of people that kept using your product/service increased every year would you panic and think about ways to restructure it in its entirety?

Obviously you never want to stop improving, the NBA included. My point is what real reason exists to completely overhaul the league's structure right now? The NBA is trying to implement minor tweaks to the draft each year to discourage tanking. Im sure in the next CBA there will be additional tweaks to salary cap and contracts.
The forearms that Lebron and harden  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 10:34 am : link
Used are 1000x worse than anything from the 80s or 90s. And refs need to start calling illegal screens.
The Jordan Effect..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/21/2018 10:40 am : link
was less about the favorable treatment, but more about the path the NBA diverged to for Marketing. In what essentially was a team-driven brand, was now a player/star-driven one.

That was great when Jordan, Magic, Ewing, Hakeem, Isaiah, Bird, etc were there, but once those guys left, there was a void that was taken either by people never living up to the star potential, or by players who weren't liked. Iverson was one who stands out.

Then you had Tim Duncan. A quiet mega-star. Perfect for a team-marketed league. Not great for a player-marketed one.
fatman  
QB Snacks : 5/21/2018 10:49 am : link
the league has the stars back again. The problem is they play for about 4 teams.
RE: RE: I walked away from the NBA years ago...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/21/2018 10:52 am : link
In comment 13969753 dep026 said:
Quote:

The most overstated thing is Jordan push off in the finals. If a left handed ďpushĒ on a guys ass while he is crossing over is enough to force him out of the play... then your just making excuses. Seriously, try to push someone in the back let alone in the ass while crossing over and see how far they go.

And Patrick Ewing walked more than anybody probably in the history of the NBA.


Right - I mentioned that it wasn't just Jordan, that the league changed to allow its stars to travel, or push off, etc.

When Jordan pushed off he did it so inconspicuously that they never called it. However sometimes it was glaringly obvious. It's seared into my brain the discussion about Jordan pushing off while the clock was running down - literally the analyst said "that would normally be pushing but you cannot make that call on Michael Jordan in this moment".

The NBA lost me there. I'm happy for all the fans who still love it. Just not for me.
I was talking..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/21/2018 10:54 am : link
just about the Post-Jordan effect.

The league has stuck with the star focus since then. It was rough for several years, then the stars came back in teh fold and delivered.

And many of the things fans said about the favorable treatment Jordan got is extended to the Stars of today. Most fans feel there is favortism, even as certain teams are about as top heavy as possible.
Dumbed down corporate basketball  
ghost718 : 5/21/2018 10:54 am : link
Just waiting for the league to expand and take in the Globetrotters
I said it when KD went to GS  
Hollywood Marc : 5/21/2018 11:05 am : link
and I'll be saying for the next couple of years, KD ruined the league for 3-5 years by going to GS. His going to a 73 win team was one of the softest/punk moves I've ever seen by a star professional athlete. Houston has no chance. Neither does Boston or Cleveland. Now, if Boston had Kyrie and Gordon, things might be different, so maybe next year they will be. But right now, with all these blowouts, my beloved NBA is borderline unwatchable past halftime. It's a major bummer...
I lost interest in the NBA after the Ewing Knicks era  
PatersonPlank : 5/21/2018 11:09 am : link
I was a huge fan from the glory years of Frazier and Reed right through. I just feel like there is a lot less team play, and a lot more 1-on-1 going on. I like the team play better, its the game I grew up with.
RE: I said it when KD went to GS  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 11:12 am : link
In comment 13969808 Hollywood Marc said:
Quote:
and I'll be saying for the next couple of years, KD ruined the league for 3-5 years by going to GS. His going to a 73 win team was one of the softest/punk moves I've ever seen by a star professional athlete. Houston has no chance. Neither does Boston or Cleveland. Now, if Boston had Kyrie and Gordon, things might be different, so maybe next year they will be. But right now, with all these blowouts, my beloved NBA is borderline unwatchable past halftime. It's a major bummer...


Lebron started the trend. Everyone else is a follower. Wait until Lebron does it for a 3rd time if they lose this year.
The 3 point shot killed the NBA  
larryflower37 : 5/21/2018 11:52 am : link

No one shoots a mid range jumper any more.
If you want to improve the game move the 3 point shot back 3 ft (yes 3ft) or eliminate it all together.
This would bring back the mid-range game and the big man into the game.
It would also force defense to defend the whole floor
Forgot the link  
larryflower37 : 5/21/2018 11:56 am : link
Nice little read
28 ft 3 point line - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I said it when KD went to GS  
bluepepper : 5/21/2018 12:06 pm : link
In comment 13969824 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13969808 Hollywood Marc said:


Quote:


and I'll be saying for the next couple of years, KD ruined the league for 3-5 years by going to GS. His going to a 73 win team was one of the softest/punk moves I've ever seen by a star professional athlete. Houston has no chance. Neither does Boston or Cleveland. Now, if Boston had Kyrie and Gordon, things might be different, so maybe next year they will be. But right now, with all these blowouts, my beloved NBA is borderline unwatchable past halftime. It's a major bummer...



Lebron started the trend. Everyone else is a follower. Wait until Lebron does it for a 3rd time if they lose this year.

Lebron and KD are just wrinkles in an old trend. NBA superstars have often been able to dictate where they play.

Wilt demanded a trade to LA
Kareem demanded a trade to LA or NY
Shaq walked from Orlando to LA
even HS-age Kobe manipulated the process to end up in LA

These moves had as huge an impact on the league as anything Lebron or KD have done. The Lakers would be just another franchise without them.

Ah, the good old days...  
DieHard : 5/21/2018 12:07 pm : link
... when we got see such sights like Charles Smith attempt to put a ball in a hoop from two feet away, repeatedly, without success. (Still covering my eyes.)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I understand the disgruntlement when it comes to lack of post or mid-range play, but I think we gloss over how ugly it could get back in the day, too. Only ten years ago we were seeing scores like 75-72 in a finals game, and that wasn't much fun either. Things always evolve. I wouldn't be surprised if we find more of a middle ground between 3s and close-in play in the future. And look what's happening in the Warriors-Rockets series right now. The Rockets are the "new" NBA with their reliance on threes and foul hunting, and yet they're in big trouble because they don't have an answer for Durant's mid-range game.

Anyway, the NBA has always been about the super teams. With Jordan's 90s Bulls teams the championship was pretty much on lockdown every year, yet viewing numbers were at all-time highs. Viewers like competition but they love dynasties even more.
Warriors  
TyreeHelmet : 5/21/2018 12:10 pm : link
Can people please stop saying that Draymond Green's suspension cost them the title?

1) He missed 1 game and Cleveland won by 15. He's making a 15 point difference?

2) He played in games 6 and 7 ( he played brilliantly in game 7 which gets overlooked). The Warriors lost 3 games in a row and 2 at home.

3) Look at Lebron's stat lines Games 5-7
Game 5- 41/16/7
Game 6- 41/8/11
Game 7- 27/11/11 in 47 minutes.

The Cavs won that title due to Lebron and Kyries greatness those last 3 games.

4) Lastly, he deserved to be suspended! He'd been kicking guys in the nuts all year and got away with a blatant one on Steven Adams in the WCF. If you act like an idiot, you deserve to be punished. He was mentally weak.
Blaming LeBron for this is strange to me  
PaulBlakeTSU : 5/21/2018 12:17 pm : link
There have always been "super teams" in the NBA. The Boston team that knocked LeBron out of the playoffs arranged to bring in Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen to join Paul Pierce and a young, talented, Rondo.

LeBron is constantly compared to Jordan and the argument often boils down to number of rings.

So LeBron is compared to a guy whose front office built him a "super team," gets knocked out of the playoffs by a recently-formed "super team," and is now the one taking the blame for starting the "super team" trend? Someone remind me, what year did Karl Malone and Gary Payton take pay-cuts to go to Los Angeles to join Shaq and Kobe?

Also, I agree that Kevin Durant going to Golden State ruined the balance of the league and put them head and shoulders above every other team and a perennial favorite for as long as they stick together. That's annoying from an intrigue perspective.

But I can't fault Durant for going to Golden State. The Warriors play an awesome style of basketball, they share the ball, they are creative and free-flowing, have a fantastic coach the players love, are in an awesome city. Durant only has one life to live and only so many years of playing professional basketball. Why wouldn't he want to play there? Golden State plays arguably the highest level of basketball that the sport has ever seen. It would probably be a lot of fun to be a part of that culture and environment.
RE: The 3 point shot killed the NBA  
QB Snacks : 5/21/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13969917 larryflower37 said:
Quote:

No one shoots a mid range jumper any more.
If you want to improve the game move the 3 point shot back 3 ft (yes 3ft) or eliminate it all together.
This would bring back the mid-range game and the big man into the game.
It would also force defense to defend the whole floor


How would getting rid of the three point shot make teams defend the whole floor? Teams would just give up the long shot. Make sense.
The NBA allows their players  
UConn4523 : 5/21/2018 12:21 pm : link
to do whatever they want. Thereís no incentive to stay, especially worth sign and trades, and if you threaten to leave, you basically get what you want. Coaches have little authority as well.

Just a very dull league no matter how many good players are in it. Itís more than just a parody problem, the style of todayís game is just flat out uninteresting for many.
Durant  
TyreeHelmet : 5/21/2018 12:27 pm : link
My argument against Durant joining GSW is simply about trying to be the best in the world. If you were that talented, wouldn't your pride drive you to want to prove you are the greatest? How is joining GSW doing that? Has he grown as a player? Not in my opinion he just tries harder on defense now.

If I'm that talented I want to prove that I can bring my own squad to a championship. I would crave that challenge.That Warriors team will never be his. Bottom line is they don't even need him to win titles. Curry is what makes that offensive system go. He's just a super bonus for them that completely tilted the competitive balance.
Hard cap  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 12:28 pm : link
would create much more balance and better basketball. But the players union wont allow it. Seriously... look at the guys running it (CP3, Lebron, Melo, Curry, etc....)

I would create a hard cap and if the players dont wanna play, it would take all of 5 years for the college and high schools to bring up enough talent before they are all forgotten.
RE: Durant  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 12:29 pm : link
In comment 13969999 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
My argument against Durant joining GSW is simply about trying to be the best in the world. If you were that talented, wouldn't your pride drive you to want to prove you are the greatest? How is joining GSW doing that? Has he grown as a player? Not in my opinion he just tries harder on defense now.

If I'm that talented I want to prove that I can bring my own squad to a championship. I would crave that challenge.That Warriors team will never be his. Bottom line is they don't even need him to win titles. Curry is what makes that offensive system go. He's just a super bonus for them that completely tilted the competitive balance.


Durant is by FAR their best player on that team. Its not even close. And Durant has become a better defender and passer.

There were two easy reasons why he left OKC.

1. To win titles.
2. To get away from Westbrook.
RE: Hard cap  
QB Snacks : 5/21/2018 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13970002 dep026 said:
Quote:
would create much more balance and better basketball. But the players union wont allow it. Seriously... look at the guys running it (CP3, Lebron, Melo, Curry, etc....)

I would create a hard cap and if the players dont wanna play, it would take all of 5 years for the college and high schools to bring up enough talent before they are all forgotten.


I dont mind a team going over the cap for players they drafted. But this acquiring bird rights shit is nonsense
RE: RE: Durant  
TyreeHelmet : 5/21/2018 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13970003 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13969999 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


My argument against Durant joining GSW is simply about trying to be the best in the world. If you were that talented, wouldn't your pride drive you to want to prove you are the greatest? How is joining GSW doing that? Has he grown as a player? Not in my opinion he just tries harder on defense now.

If I'm that talented I want to prove that I can bring my own squad to a championship. I would crave that challenge.That Warriors team will never be his. Bottom line is they don't even need him to win titles. Curry is what makes that offensive system go. He's just a super bonus for them that completely tilted the competitive balance.



Durant is by FAR their best player on that team. Its not even close. And Durant has become a better defender and passer.

There were two easy reasons why he left OKC.

1. To win titles.
2. To get away from Westbrook.


He's not even being challenged though. I just cannot fathom losing that series when he's with OKC and joining the Warriors. Your one of the most gifted players to ever play the game. You don't want to try to beat that team?? Especially how he played at the end of the series.

He definitely is their best player but I would argue he isn't their most important player. He also gets a ton of wide open looks, doesn't have to guard the best opposing player and doesn't have to play big minutes. He took the easy way out.
Durant started the series  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 12:40 pm : link
on Harden. Your complaints about him joining the GS are valid, but he defends his ass off and goes and defends a very good offensive player where as Curry always gets the easiest.

Durant's situation was simple to me. He wanted out of OKC. My thoughts and feelings on Westbrook are well advertised. I think he is very selfish and a me-type player. So Durant wanted out. So do you go on a lesser team or do you go to the best team in the league whose offense situates you better?

Washington would have been an interesting place for him with Wall, Beal, and Porter and that is his hometown. But the chance to win a ring was too good to pass up.
What GS did  
giantsfan44ab : 5/21/2018 12:46 pm : link
is what every fan wants their team to do. Kill it in the draft and then lure top talents to join. It's pretty much the only reliable way to do it unless you have an MVP that can allure 2 other stars with tons of cap space.

I hate KD and GS but I can't sit here and pretend that I wouldn't have wanted the Knicks to do the same exact thing.
RE: Warriors  
jdf : 5/22/2018 6:10 am : link
In comment 13969960 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Can people please stop saying that Draymond Green's suspension cost them the title?

1) He missed 1 game and Cleveland won by 15. He's making a 15 point difference?

2) He played in games 6 and 7 ( he played brilliantly in game 7 which gets overlooked). The Warriors lost 3 games in a row and 2 at home.

3) Look at Lebron's stat lines Games 5-7
Game 5- 41/16/7
Game 6- 41/8/11
Game 7- 27/11/11 in 47 minutes.

The Cavs won that title due to Lebron and Kyries greatness those last 3 games.

4) Lastly, he deserved to be suspended! He'd been kicking guys in the nuts all year and got away with a blatant one on Steven Adams in the WCF. If you act like an idiot, you deserve to be punished. He was mentally weak.


You're forgetting that both Bogut and Iguodala got injured in Game 5 of that series. So yes, Draymond came back for Games 6 and 7, but without Bogut and with Iguodala hobbled, of course Lebron and Kyrie went off. Whether you like it or not, that suspension completely changed the series and tipped the scales Cleveland's way. (And that, by the way, also paved the way for Durant to go to Golden State; I don't believe he would have done so if GS had won the championship that year.)

And I disagree that Draymond deserved to be suspended. Lebron completely instigated the scuffle at the end of Game 4, and then called for the suspension (along with Brian Windhorst, I believe) after the game. The NBA gave him what he wanted, and the rest is history. It was the worst rigging of a series since Sacramento-LA in 2002.
RE: RE: Warriors  
TyreeHelmet : 5/22/2018 11:22 am : link
In comment 13970862 jdf said:
Quote:
In comment 13969960 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


Can people please stop saying that Draymond Green's suspension cost them the title?

1) He missed 1 game and Cleveland won by 15. He's making a 15 point difference?

2) He played in games 6 and 7 ( he played brilliantly in game 7 which gets overlooked). The Warriors lost 3 games in a row and 2 at home.

3) Look at Lebron's stat lines Games 5-7
Game 5- 41/16/7
Game 6- 41/8/11
Game 7- 27/11/11 in 47 minutes.

The Cavs won that title due to Lebron and Kyries greatness those last 3 games.

4) Lastly, he deserved to be suspended! He'd been kicking guys in the nuts all year and got away with a blatant one on Steven Adams in the WCF. If you act like an idiot, you deserve to be punished. He was mentally weak.



You're forgetting that both Bogut and Iguodala got injured in Game 5 of that series. So yes, Draymond came back for Games 6 and 7, but without Bogut and with Iguodala hobbled, of course Lebron and Kyrie went off. Whether you like it or not, that suspension completely changed the series and tipped the scales Cleveland's way. (And that, by the way, also paved the way for Durant to go to Golden State; I don't believe he would have done so if GS had won the championship that year.)

And I disagree that Draymond deserved to be suspended. Lebron completely instigated the scuffle at the end of Game 4, and then called for the suspension (along with Brian Windhorst, I believe) after the game. The NBA gave him what he wanted, and the rest is history. It was the worst rigging of a series since Sacramento-LA in 2002.


Iggy averaged 36 mins a game from games 5-7.But I guess thats part of the Warriors mantra. When things don't go well blame injuries. When they do play well they are healthy.

Bogut did go down in Game 5 but I'm sorry he's not tipping the series balance. He also wasn't even playing big minutes down the stretch of games at that point.

The Green suspension definitely contributed to them losing. I just hate how people blame it 100% on the loss. I think the James averaging 40 points and a triple double was what did it. And if you watched game 5, Lebron and Kyrie were possessed and no way were they losing.
RE: RE: RE: Warriors  
dep026 : 5/22/2018 11:28 am : link
In comment 13971146 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:

The Green suspension definitely contributed to them losing. I just hate how people blame it 100% on the loss. I think the James averaging 40 points and a triple double was what did it. And if you watched game 5, Lebron and Kyrie were possessed and no way were they losing.


I agree playing the what if game is silly. Cleveland could have easily won the game with or without Green. But the only thing I would disagree with is since they lost by 15 - could he have made a difference of that? The answer is yes, no, maybe so? No one can ever know for sure. I believe the game was tied at half. Maybe with Green they areup 10 or down 10. But his absence was huge and one will always wonder if he had him....

Along the lines with agreeing with you.... what if Kyrie and Love werent hurt for the first go round? It could always go both ways.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Warriors  
TyreeHelmet : 5/22/2018 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13971150 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13971146 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:



The Green suspension definitely contributed to them losing. I just hate how people blame it 100% on the loss. I think the James averaging 40 points and a triple double was what did it. And if you watched game 5, Lebron and Kyrie were possessed and no way were they losing.



I agree playing the what if game is silly. Cleveland could have easily won the game with or without Green. But the only thing I would disagree with is since they lost by 15 - could he have made a difference of that? The answer is yes, no, maybe so? No one can ever know for sure. I believe the game was tied at half. Maybe with Green they areup 10 or down 10. But his absence was huge and one will always wonder if he had him....

Along the lines with agreeing with you.... what if Kyrie and Love werent hurt for the first go round? It could always go both ways.


I think the Cavs win the series in 6 if both those guys are healthy and probably even just with Kyrie healthy.

They lost game 1 in OT after Kyrie got hurt I believe. They won games 2 and 3 but just ran out of gas and scoring. Delly was the 2nd offensive option and had to be hospitalized for exhaustion. James Jones was getting big minutes.

What Lebron did that series is what of the most impressive feats I've ever seen from an athlete. He 100% deserved the MVP, regardless of them losing.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Warriors  
dep026 : 5/22/2018 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13971239 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:


What Lebron did that series is what of the most impressive feats I've ever seen from an athlete. He 100% deserved the MVP, regardless of them losing.


Tough to give someone the MVP shooting less than 40% from the floor. I understand he had to do what he had to do, but his shooting was a big reason why they lost a few of those games.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Warriors  
TyreeHelmet : 5/22/2018 12:44 pm : link
In comment 13971241 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13971239 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:




What Lebron did that series is what of the most impressive feats I've ever seen from an athlete. He 100% deserved the MVP, regardless of them losing.



Tough to give someone the MVP shooting less than 40% from the floor. I understand he had to do what he had to do, but his shooting was a big reason why they lost a few of those games.


46 mins a game
35 points a game
13 boards
9 assists

While relying on Delly, Mozgov, and Thompson to create offense.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Warriors  
dep026 : 5/22/2018 12:50 pm : link
In comment 13971276 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13971241 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 13971239 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:




What Lebron did that series is what of the most impressive feats I've ever seen from an athlete. He 100% deserved the MVP, regardless of them losing.



Tough to give someone the MVP shooting less than 40% from the floor. I understand he had to do what he had to do, but his shooting was a big reason why they lost a few of those games.



46 mins a game
35 points a game
13 boards
9 assists

While relying on Delly, Mozgov, and Thompson to create offense.


I am not saying he didnt play well.

But he also shot under 40% from the floor
31% from 3
67% from the foul line

And lets not act like Mozgov/Thoompson combining for 20/20 is something to sneeze at. Lebron had too much responsibility and did amazing in the series. But his shooting was a big reason why they lost. He took more than 20 shots per game than his next closest teammate!!!
Shooting  
TyreeHelmet : 5/22/2018 1:34 pm : link
You actually have a point. I didn't realize he shot so poorly and that much the last 3 games. It's amazing how much he's evolved even since then. He scores so efficiently now its crazy.
RE: Shooting  
dep026 : 5/22/2018 1:38 pm : link
In comment 13971349 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
You actually have a point. I didn't realize he shot so poorly and that much the last 3 games. It's amazing how much he's evolved even since then. He scores so efficiently now its crazy.


Scoring efficiently has increased over the last couple years being that its easier to get to the basket and the 3 point shooting has improved. Long gone are the days of driving the lane and facing two bigs who's job was to clog the lane. Sometimes with smallball lineups there is.... no one there!

Referencing back to Jordan. He would drive the lane and see the likes of Parish/McHale, Barkley/Malone, Rodman/Laimbeer, Ewing/Oakley there. Now, Lebron may see a horford (if he isnt chasing Love on the arc, and possibly Draymond Green in the finals. Crazy.
They should keep the salary cap and kill the max contract  
Heisenberg : 5/22/2018 1:43 pm : link
keeping the stars salaries artificially low incentivizes them to try to all be on the same team. Let Lebron make 60 Million or whatever he can and the cavs try to fill out the roster with the rest.
NBA  
madgiantscow009 : 5/22/2018 1:52 pm : link
is hard to watch.
The thing that sucks  
KWALL2 : 5/22/2018 1:57 pm : link
Is team building is tough.

In other sports you can turn it around fast but not in the NBA. I have no solution for it but it sucks when your team is going on 2 decades of poor ball.

The super dynasty thing has been seen often in the NBA. Thatís not the problem now. Have a great team and then others try and knock them off. Thatís good stuff.
RE: Warriors  
Section331 : 5/22/2018 4:39 pm : link
In comment 13969960 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Can people please stop saying that Draymond Green's suspension cost them the title?
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4) Lastly, he deserved to be suspended! He'd been kicking guys in the nuts all year and got away with a blatant one on Steven Adams in the WCF. If you act like an idiot, you deserve to be punished. He was mentally weak.


Good post, but this one?:

Quote:
Durant
TyreeHelmet : 5/21/2018 12:27 pm : link : reply
My argument against Durant joining GSW is simply about trying to be the best in the world. If you were that talented, wouldn't your pride drive you to want to prove you are the greatest? How is joining GSW doing that? Has he grown as a player? Not in my opinion he just tries harder on defense now.

If I'm that talented I want to prove that I can bring my own squad to a championship. I would crave that challenge.That Warriors team will never be his. Bottom line is they don't even need him to win titles. Curry is what makes that offensive system go. He's just a super bonus for them that completely tilted the competitive balance.


I completely get the idea of wanting to beat the best, but what should KD have done, stay in OKC? Fuck that, I'm going to San Fran every day and Sunday over OK fucking C.

And it is KD that makes GS go. Whenever they need a bucket, the ball goes through KD.
After seeing Westbrook now  
giantsfan44ab : 5/22/2018 6:08 pm : link
its hard to fend for him but those last few games in that series were on KD's shoulders. It was him chucking contested transition 3s with Ibaka wide open under the basket that cost them game 7. They were the most talented team in the league. They upgraded Ibaka into Oladipo + Sabonis. While those guys underperformed in OKC i think it wouldve been much different had KD been there. I mean did you see how useful Dion Waiters was with KD? I think Dipo wouldve had a much better season last year, plus Westbrook, KD and PG probably would be the favorite for a few years.
It's always been a 2-3 team league.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/22/2018 6:13 pm : link
Bill Russell won ELEVEN TITLES IN THIRTEEN SEASONS. For most of the past 3-4 decades, we can narrow down to exactly 2 or 3 teams who's going to win the title with a high percentage of accuracy. Basketball is the one major sport where the best team almost always wins. I think people can legitimately complain about the in-game competitiveness, which is really more a result of the three point shot. Complaining about it being a 2-3 team league ignores years and years of the sport's history.
In my opinion there's a very clear fix  
Strahan91 : 5/22/2018 6:17 pm : link
Abolish the max contracts and let teams pay players as much as they'd like within the bounds of the salary cap. That way instead of guys giving up a few million to play with other superstars they'd be giving up a lot more. That would bring far more parity fairly quickly
Jordan ruined NBA for me as well  
stoneman : 5/22/2018 6:29 pm : link
So many phantom calls that I gave up on any game with him. This product after the Bird/Magic era was horrible.

This and the fact that I started to dislike all of the players - Iverson, Kidd, etc. too many punks.
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