Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

The reason TE Evan Engram was drafted.....

sxdxca : 5/22/2018 1:38 am
In 2016 the New York Giants offense with Odell Beckham Jr averaged only 19 points per game.

A major reason the team went 11-5, is because they had the #2 ranked defense in the entire league, only giving up 17 points per game.

The Giants offense struggled because they couldn't get teams out of a cover 2 shell.

There are two ways to beat the cover 2.

#1 You run the football (the Giants haven't had a good running game in 7 years)

or

#2 You have a TE run up the seam.

After the 2016 season, the Giants decided to draft Evan Engram to accomplish that goal, to beat the cover 2.

This is further confirmed by an article, which I will post the link to later, and I quote...

"The team's main concern seemed to be in landing a receiver who can get downfield and make plays in the seam to open up defenses. The Giants admitted they struggled against Cover-2 looks far to often in 2016. They appear to be betting Engram can help them adjust that trend this coming year."

A few days ago, I had specifically said the Giants drafted Engram, with the 23rd pick in the draft to run up the seam, to help them do that.

I was viciously and mercilessly attacked, however thankfully a few Giant fans (Len, Jimmy) came to my defense, which I appreciate.

In 2017, the Giants were hoping with Beckham, Shepard, and Engram they would have an explosive offense.

Sadly, Beckham was injured in the preseason, and ultimately was lost for the entire year.

So with just Engram and Shepard, the Giants offense averaged only 15 points per game.

To put that in perspective, out of 32 teams in the NFL, there was only one team who's offensive point production was worse.

That team was the Cleveland Browns, they averaged only 14 points per game.

You can see why the Giants only won 3 games last year.

Now hopefully with a healthy Beckham, Engram, Shepard, and Barkley we will see what this team and offense can do.

I am hopeful there will be a significant jump in point production in 2018...




link - ( New Window )
Call me crazy  
Knee of Theismann : 5/22/2018 2:16 am : link
But I have a lot of faith in this 2018 Giants team. People say how could a 3-13 team turn around and make the playoffs? Well how can an 11-5 team turn around and be 3-13?

Anything can happen in the NFL from year to year, and IF they can stay healthy, I have a lot of faith in Shurmur and Eli to put together a winning offensive strategy with an improved offensive line and a ton of offensive firepower.

And, if you look at our defense we have more than above-average talent and a DC who everyone thinks will probably be a head coach a year from now.
Call me crazy 2  
Vanzetti : 5/22/2018 2:41 am : link
Logic tells me that this team has a patchwork OL, zero depth at WR and CB, and a huge question mark at DE.

All of which points to a 6-8 win team, yet somehow I'm oddly confident about next season
Barkley is the man Cover 2 killer  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/22/2018 4:50 am : link
He'll rape any LB catching out of the backfield, he's completely undefensible.

Of course if you zone defend the flats, that opens things up for Beckham and Evans doenfield.
I just wanna go on record  
JCin332 : 5/22/2018 6:03 am : link
as saying your threads are pure awesomeness...
RE: Call me crazy  
eli4life : 5/22/2018 6:07 am : link
In comment 13970849 Knee of Theismann said:
Quote:
But I have a lot of faith in this 2018 Giants team. People say how could a 3-13 team turn around and make the playoffs? Well how can an 11-5 team turn around and be 3-13?

Anything can happen in the NFL from year to year, and IF they can stay healthy, I have a lot of faith in Shurmur and Eli to put together a winning offensive strategy with an improved offensive line and a ton of offensive firepower.

And, if you look at our defense we have more than above-average talent and a DC who everyone thinks will probably be a head coach a year from now.


I think we will be real good to start but where we will lose being in contention or being a teal threat for contention I should say is if injuries start mounting. Our depth sucks thanks to several years of bad drafts. If we can stay relatively healthy we might have a shot for the division
This part is absolutely an untruth...  
Bill L : 5/22/2018 7:17 am : link
Quote:
A few days ago, I had specifically said the Giants drafted Engram, with the 23rd pick in the draft to run up the seam, to help them do that.

I was viciously and mercilessly attacked...


What you *said* was they drafted Engram to coddle Eli and specifically for Eli. You absolutely implied that he is a petulant person who needed appeasing and outright stated that every player drafted or signed or put on the field was solely to provide him crutches.

Nobody doubts that the team needs good players and also players with skills to do specific things, but your reference to the previous thread is, at best, a distortion of what you actually posted.
Last year during pre-season I predicted a "at worst" 10 - 6 record  
SGMen : 5/22/2018 7:18 am : link
I based it upon our defense being solid again; noting the schedule was tougher - especially all the travel; and, the players being more familiar with McAddoo.

I also felt that LT Flowers & RT Hart would "step up" and be much better as they were so young.

Nothing worked out. Injuries and lack of player development made this team 3 - 13.


However, this year with Shurmur at the helm, I expect a "bounce back" year and a winning record. We may only go 9 - 7 but that is an improvement. We have the skill position players to be very, very good on offense. On defense, I'm thinking we'll stop the run fairly well but our secondary is paper thin and we lack pass rush so teams that can create matchup problems for us will get their yards and TD's.


My gut says no worse than 9 - 7 despite the tough schedule and new system. But hey, it all comes down to how much does ELI have left? How will the injury bug be on us? And, how quickly will players grasp the new systems.

I think it would be HUGE if we eeked out a 2 - 0 start. Last year, at 0 - 2, you just felt inside like "these guys were NOT ready to play NFL football. We can't have that this year. The JAGS are superb but we are home and its game 1, anything can happen. We will see soon enough!
To wit...  
Bill L : 5/22/2018 7:19 am : link
the *title* of the thread was
Mara has given Eli Manning everything....
Link - ( New Window )
I think the Giants discovered in 2017  
Jimmy Googs : 5/22/2018 7:27 am : link
that without a functioning Oline, it almost doesn't matter what defense people are in.

Posters wondered why Engram was not used more for the manner intended, to be a downfield mismatch. The answer was, with a porous Oline and lack of quality targets, Eli had to use him as a safety blanket more and more which shortened his routes.

A poor Oline, no credible WR targets and a skittish immobile QB...the perfect storm.
You know what's crazy? Reese thinking that a TE...  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/22/2018 7:39 am : link
...was all we needed to make the offense competitive. Not an OT (Ryan Ramczyk, Cam Robinson).

I got nothing against EE, but our line sucked in 2016. How we passed on two of the top OT prospects is baffling.
The reason was mostly  
Jimmy Googs : 5/22/2018 7:42 am : link
huberis...
** hubris  
Jimmy Googs : 5/22/2018 7:43 am : link
.
RE: Barkley is the man Cover 2 killer  
jjgmrg901 : 5/22/2018 8:18 am : link
In comment 13970855 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
He'll rape any LB catching out of the backfield, he's completely undefensible.

Of course if you zone defend the flats, that opens things up for Beckham and Evans doenfield.


Coach Red, How about you consider using other active verbs to describe or define a particular player other than the word rape.
Especially in this time and place.
Really in any time or place
Thank you ahead of time
He'll..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/22/2018 8:20 am : link
leave the defender's jock on the ground, exposing his sweaty and flapping ballsack?

I find it hard to believe  
Beer Man : 5/22/2018 8:46 am : link
that you would be "viciously and mercilessly attacked" for saying that "the Giants drafted Engram, with the 23rd pick in the draft to run up the seam"

Its common knowledge he was drafted for that purpose and to get opposing D's out of the cover-2. Due to shitty O-line play and OBJ's injury it didn't work out that way. 2018 is a new year, hopefully we will see it work out the way it was intended.
He was kind of attacked but in the typical fashion  
Jimmy Googs : 5/22/2018 8:59 am : link
whereas he provided "leading commentary" that Engram was drafted to placate Eli. And, of course, the Eli-Manning police force are not going to allow that to happen so...there you go.

The checks and balances of BBI...
Eli Manning police force  
dep026 : 5/22/2018 9:02 am : link
hmph... new one. Not bad - seen better.

See here's why I think Engram was drafted. Our TEs sucked balls for years. Engram is very fast, and runs good routes and can causes mismatches. So we drafted him to improve the TE corps and hopefully he catches a lot of passes and TDs because the prior group for years were more known for falling on their heads than making plays.
"hmph"  
Jimmy Googs : 5/22/2018 9:08 am : link
somebody must have called the police...
RE:  
dep026 : 5/22/2018 9:10 am : link
In comment 13970944 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
somebody must have called the police...


Its kind of hard to miss when you say something stupid in EVERY thread, including ones about our TE....haha

Lets face it. Police force wasnt your best effort, but i'll attribute that to it being so early. I know you have better stuff for later.
As long as you keep posting  
Jimmy Googs : 5/22/2018 9:12 am : link
I should have plenty of material...
sxcxda, you were not "made fun of"  
Section331 : 5/22/2018 9:12 am : link
for saying that Engram was drafted to run up the seam, you were mocked for saying that EE was drafted only to "help Eli". When others pointed out that he was drafted because the Giants needed a good receiving TE, you doubled down on the idea that he was drafted only to help Eli.
RE: As long as you keep posting  
dep026 : 5/22/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 13970950 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
I should have plenty of material...


I saw a lot of your posts from last year. Trust me, you donít need me to continue to say stupid things and derail threads just to hate on Eli.
"hmph"  
Jimmy Googs : 5/22/2018 9:19 am : link
.
To understand..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/22/2018 9:29 am : link
how detached the poster who started this thread is from reality, he actually believes people viciously attacked him for merely suggesting we signed a TE to bust the Cover 2.

It couldn't have been for the outlandish and ridiculous claims that ownership was trying to appease Eli.

That's probably why these ponderous threads continue to get started. Because the posters don't even realize how shitty their takes are. Or worse, they do realize it and post just to be annoyances.
I must have missed the thread  
UberAlias : 5/22/2018 10:01 am : link
Call me skeptical, but somehow I find it hard to believe someone would be viciously attacked for saying EE was drafted to beat the Cover 2. Most here would agree with that statement.
Engram  
AndyB : 5/22/2018 10:11 am : link
You run the tight end down the seam to stress the single-high safety in Cover 1 (man-free) and Cover 3 (Three deep zone).

You have your tight end take an inside release, if he can defeat the jam at the line of scrimmage, and run down the hole between the split safeties in Cover 2.

None of this had anything to do with drafting Evan Engram anyway. Engram was taken because he had the highest grade at the point they were picking.

This season, on first down, defenses are likely to have their strong safety down in the box, in the play side D-Gap or alley to prevent Barkley from getting to the edge, or in backside A-Gap to stop him from cutting back.

There will be plays this year where the defenders will be in perfect position to make the tackle but it won't matter. Barkley will defeat them anyway.
I am excited to see Barkley play  
RinR : 5/22/2018 10:19 am : link
In comment 13970855 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
he's completely undefensible.


But can we at least see, I dont know, a series or two or maybe even a game or two?
RE: You know what's crazy? Reese thinking that a TE...  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/22/2018 10:26 am : link
In comment 13970877 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...was all we needed to make the offense competitive. Not an OT (Ryan Ramczyk, Cam Robinson).

I got nothing against EE, but our line sucked in 2016. How we passed on two of the top OT prospects is baffling.


This. Both guys were more than worth that pick. Of course we were told but plenty of arm chair GMs they werenít. Engram is a great kid and a was also worth that spot in a vacum. But with Hart as a right tackle passing on those two guys is why Reese doesnít have a job. No eye for OL. Never had one.
Main Reason Reese Was Fired  
Samiam : 5/22/2018 11:07 am : link
Drafting Engram was a luxury. For a team with a horrible OL, to pass on Robinson or Ramyzk was a major and fatal flaw. Good TEs were available later in the draft but not good OLs,

This talk about Eli is beyond stupid. Look how Rothlesberger reacted to Ptt drafting a QB and heís talked about retiring. Eli watched them draft Nassib, Webb & now another QB this year on team that had serious needs. Never heard him complain & he worked to help with the young guys.
RE: Call me crazy  
sxdxca : 5/22/2018 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13970849 Knee of Theismann said:
Quote:
But I have a lot of faith in this 2018 Giants team. People say how could a 3-13 team turn around and make the playoffs? Well how can an 11-5 team turn around and be 3-13?

Anything can happen in the NFL from year to year, and IF they can stay healthy, I have a lot of faith in Shurmur and Eli to put together a winning offensive strategy with an improved offensive line and a ton of offensive firepower.

And, if you look at our defense we have more than above-average talent and a DC who everyone thinks will probably be a head coach a year from now.


Knee theismann

I can see your point and hope that comes true
RE: I just wanna go on record  
sxdxca : 5/22/2018 1:30 pm : link
In comment 13970859 JCin332 said:
Quote:
as saying your threads are pure awesomeness...


JCin332

Thanks man
RE: Main Reason Reese Was Fired  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/22/2018 3:28 pm : link
In comment 13971114 Samiam said:
Quote:
Drafting Engram was a luxury. For a team with a horrible OL, to pass on Robinson or Ramyzk was a major and fatal flaw. Good TEs were available later in the draft but not good OLs,



The team lacks talent in all areas, and TE was one of several positions that had been unsettled for many years. RB was another. So is Barkley a luxury pick as well?
RE: Call me crazy  
x meadowlander : 5/22/2018 3:32 pm : link
In comment 13970849 Knee of Theismann said:
Quote:
People say how could a 3-13 team turn around and make the playoffs?
See 1984 for reference.

:)
Could it be as simple as...  
JOrthman : 5/22/2018 4:18 pm : link
We needed a TE and he was the best one available when we drafted and the best player available when we drafted?
thats why they drafted engram  
msh : 5/22/2018 5:19 pm : link
but they didnt use him that way enough,didnt make enough use of double TE sets either,more so once virtually the entire WR starters went down to injury you figured engram and ellison would become much more important players instead they kept throwing lewis and king in at WR instead

i think we have more confidence becuase we know shurmur will make better use of the players they have and i also think bettcher will do more with the defence than spags as well,DG in one offseason did more to fix the OL and running game than reese did in the last 5
RE: Could it be as simple as...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/22/2018 5:59 pm : link
In comment 13971619 JOrthman said:
Quote:
We needed a TE and he was the best one available when we drafted and the best player available when we drafted?


Yes to the first two, and Questionable as to the third.

Hmf  
idiotsavant : 5/22/2018 6:35 pm : link
Tight ends run block too, you know.

Just saying.
RE: RE: Could it be as simple as...  
JOrthman : 5/22/2018 8:09 pm : link
In comment 13971742 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13971619 JOrthman said:


Quote:


We needed a TE and he was the best one available when we drafted and the best player available when we drafted?



Yes to the first two, and Questionable as to the third.


Well the last part is always debatable depending on the player and the team, but I think the point still stands. People are making this way more complicated.
The Philosophy is flawed  
giantstock : 5/23/2018 11:10 pm : link
1--- You need a good offensive line to give the QB time to make the play.

2-- The supposed "our offense will be explosive" from last year or year prior was fantasy. If the OLine stinks and you don't have a super passing QB, regardless of your position players, it's laughable to think you'll have an explosive offense.

I see a lot of posts talking about what was wrong last year  
djm : 5/23/2018 11:19 pm : link
No mention of play design or offensive philosophy. The offense sucked from a design pov. Wasnít Taylored to its strengths and never ever ever adapted or adjudged.

From there we can then talk about talent issues up front, in the backfield and at wr due to injury.

The problem last two years first and foremost was the coaching.
Adjudged  
djm : 5/23/2018 11:20 pm : link
Should be adjusted
RE: The Philosophy is flawed  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/23/2018 11:21 pm : link
In comment 13973730 giantstock said:
Quote:
1--- You need a good offensive line to give the QB time to make the play.

2-- The supposed "our offense will be explosive" from last year or year prior was fantasy. If the OLine stinks and you don't have a super passing QB, regardless of your position players, it's laughable to think you'll have an explosive offense.


Though I'd likely agree with you, it's difficult to use last year as any kind of proof considering that Marshall gave you nothing at all and Odell was never healthy at any point. So not only didn't they have an offensive line, they also only had no skill pos. players other than a rookie TE.
RE: RE: The Philosophy is flawed  
giantstock : 5/24/2018 12:29 am : link
In comment 13973737 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13973730 giantstock said:


Quote:


1--- You need a good offensive line to give the QB time to make the play.

2-- The supposed "our offense will be explosive" from last year or year prior was fantasy. If the OLine stinks and you don't have a super passing QB, regardless of your position players, it's laughable to think you'll have an explosive offense.




Though I'd likely agree with you, it's difficult to use last year as any kind of proof considering that Marshall gave you nothing at all and Odell was never healthy at any point. So not only didn't they have an offensive line, they also only had no skill pos. players other than a rookie TE.


That's the point. Marshall gave nothing yet they spent money on an old wide receiver thinking they could be this explosive offense. And they were already 0-4 before OBJ went down.
He was hurt in preseason, so he was never healthy at any point  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/24/2018 3:30 am : link
even before the final injury.

Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.
RE: He was hurt in preseason, so he was never healthy at any point  
giantstock : 5/24/2018 7:06 am : link
In comment 13973780 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
even before the final injury.

Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.


"He was hurt in the preaseason" is an excuse. He came out to play.

No offense - I say this in fun and with respect - "Clearly," imo you're wrong. The Line absolutely was part of the problem holding back the team.

The philosophy was clearly a failed one which is why it ws no accident the Giants extremely over paid for Soldier. They picked up Omammeh, picked up a guard in the draft in the early 2nd rd, and let go of many former OL. They are "telling us" that the OL WAS a HUGE problem.



RE: RE: He was hurt in preseason, so he was never healthy at any point  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/24/2018 9:16 am : link
In comment 13973793 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 13973780 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


even before the final injury.

Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.



"He was hurt in the preaseason" is an excuse. He came out to play.

No offense - I say this in fun and with respect - "Clearly," imo you're wrong. The Line absolutely was part of the problem holding back the team.

The philosophy was clearly a failed one which is why it ws no accident the Giants extremely over paid for Soldier. They picked up Omammeh, picked up a guard in the draft in the early 2nd rd, and let go of many former OL. They are "telling us" that the OL WAS a HUGE problem.




I don't see the need to down play what was a legit injury. He was very obviously extremely limited when he did play early in the season, and his production bears that out.There was a lot of talk over whether he'd be able to make it back by week one.
Our Offense was blatantly not ready to play ball when the  
Jimmy Googs : 5/24/2018 9:38 am : link
season started last year. And that is on McAdoo. The Oline wasn't ready for Dallas defensive line from play #1. I'm not even sure Marshall caught a pass in any of the preseason games, and clearly had no rapport with Eli going into the season. I recall some back/forth later that Marshall wasn't even targeted by Eli and then the Giant response was you weren't open.

And after OBJ got injured in preseason, it almost looked like they didn't come up with any alternative plans to attack on Offense. I think they were so used to the 2016 game plan to let the defense control the game, lets putter along on Offense and throw a 10 yard slant to OBJ and let him take it 75 yards...oh, wait he wasn't around to help.

Result: 3 points on opening night



Last year's team was led...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/24/2018 10:13 am : link
by an overconfident coach. They were soft. Some of that is on the players, but much of it is on the organization, starting with the GM and head coach.

That's why they got punched in the mouth by Dallas on opening day, and other teams didn't let up. The reaction to that punch was to lay down and die.

If this year's team is going to have a chance, they will have to come out ready to fight. No more softies.
RE: RE: RE: He was hurt in preseason, so he was never healthy at any point  
giantstock : 5/24/2018 11:50 pm : link
In comment 13973888 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13973793 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 13973780 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


even before the final injury.

Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.



"He was hurt in the preaseason" is an excuse. He came out to play.

No offense - I say this in fun and with respect - "Clearly," imo you're wrong. The Line absolutely was part of the problem holding back the team.

The philosophy was clearly a failed one which is why it ws no accident the Giants extremely over paid for Soldier. They picked up Omammeh, picked up a guard in the draft in the early 2nd rd, and let go of many former OL. They are "telling us" that the OL WAS a HUGE problem.






I don't see the need to down play what was a legit injury. He was very obviously extremely limited when he did play early in the season, and his production bears that out.There was a lot of talk over whether he'd be able to make it back by week one.


I'm sorry but you're giving excuses. He plays - he's ready.
RE: Call me crazy  
5BowlsSoon : 5/25/2018 9:18 am : link
In comment 13970849 Knee of Theismann said:
Quote:
But I have a lot of faith in this 2018 Giants team. People say how could a 3-13 team turn around and make the playoffs? Well how can an 11-5 team turn around and be 3-13?

Anything can happen in the NFL from year to year, and IF they can stay healthy, I have a lot of faith in Shurmur and Eli to put together a winning offensive strategy with an improved offensive line and a ton of offensive firepower.

And, if you look at our defense we have more than above-average talent and a DC who everyone thinks will probably be a head coach a year from now.


I completely agree. As bad as we were last year we played the world champs tough both times. We all know we had lousy coaches, a ton of injuries, and guys who quit. This has been rectified.

Hopefully great coaches, no injuries, and guys who play hard. Plus, we have added a lot of new guys who either are pretty darn good or can be pretty darn good. Drafting Barkley instead of Sam to hold a clipboard for two years helps considerably and IMMEDIATELY.

We shall be fine.
By the way,  
5BowlsSoon : 5/25/2018 9:20 am : link
The original post I sent outstanding. This thread should be pinned. A lot of great knowledgeable Giant fans have contributed on this thread. Excellent thread. Go Giants.....
RE: was the OL really that bad?  
5BowlsSoon : 5/25/2018 9:27 am : link
In comment 13970870 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
that without a functioning Oline, it almost doesn't matter what defense people are in.


A poor Oline, no credible WR targets and a skittish immobile QB...the perfect storm.


Was the OL that bad protecting the qb? I do not believe you have the stats to support this. I thought I saw Pro Football Focus ranked us in the middle, not at the bottom.
RE: RE: RE: RE: He was hurt in preseason, so he was never healthy at any point  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2018 9:28 am : link
In comment 13974718 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 13973888 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13973793 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 13973780 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


even before the final injury.

Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.



"He was hurt in the preaseason" is an excuse. He came out to play.

No offense - I say this in fun and with respect - "Clearly," imo you're wrong. The Line absolutely was part of the problem holding back the team.

The philosophy was clearly a failed one which is why it ws no accident the Giants extremely over paid for Soldier. They picked up Omammeh, picked up a guard in the draft in the early 2nd rd, and let go of many former OL. They are "telling us" that the OL WAS a HUGE problem.






I don't see the need to down play what was a legit injury. He was very obviously extremely limited when he did play early in the season, and his production bears that out.There was a lot of talk over whether he'd be able to make it back by week one.



I'm sorry but you're giving excuses. He plays - he's ready.


That's nonsense. Players take the field while physically compromised with injuries all the time. Players play with arms, hands, and fingers in casts. A person should be smart enough to adjust expectations accordingly.
RE: RE: RE: RE: He was hurt in preseason, so he was never healthy at any point  
adamg : 5/25/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 13974718 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 13973888 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13973793 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 13973780 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


even before the final injury.

Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.



"He was hurt in the preaseason" is an excuse. He came out to play.

No offense - I say this in fun and with respect - "Clearly," imo you're wrong. The Line absolutely was part of the problem holding back the team.

The philosophy was clearly a failed one which is why it ws no accident the Giants extremely over paid for Soldier. They picked up Omammeh, picked up a guard in the draft in the early 2nd rd, and let go of many former OL. They are "telling us" that the OL WAS a HUGE problem.






I don't see the need to down play what was a legit injury. He was very obviously extremely limited when he did play early in the season, and his production bears that out.There was a lot of talk over whether he'd be able to make it back by week one.



I'm sorry but you're giving excuses. He plays - he's ready.


Odell didn't play week 1...
Back to the Corner