In 2016 the New York Giants offense with Odell Beckham Jr averaged only 19 points per game.
A major reason the team went 11-5, is because they had the #2 ranked defense in the entire league, only giving up 17 points per game.
The Giants offense struggled because they couldn't get teams out of a cover 2 shell.
There are two ways to beat the cover 2.
#1 You run the football (the Giants haven't had a good running game in 7 years)
or
#2 You have a TE run up the seam.
After the 2016 season, the Giants decided to draft Evan Engram to accomplish that goal, to beat the cover 2.
This is further confirmed by an article, which I will post the link to later, and I quote...
"The team's main concern seemed to be in landing a receiver who can get downfield and make plays in the seam to open up defenses. The Giants admitted they struggled against Cover-2 looks far to often in 2016. They appear to be betting Engram can help them adjust that trend this coming year."
A few days ago, I had specifically said the Giants drafted Engram, with the 23rd pick in the draft to run up the seam, to help them do that.
I was viciously and mercilessly attacked, however thankfully a few Giant fans (Len, Jimmy) came to my defense, which I appreciate.
In 2017, the Giants were hoping with Beckham, Shepard, and Engram they would have an explosive offense.
Sadly, Beckham was injured in the preseason, and ultimately was lost for the entire year.
So with just Engram and Shepard, the Giants offense averaged only 15 points per game.
To put that in perspective, out of 32 teams in the NFL, there was only one team who's offensive point production was worse.
That team was the Cleveland Browns, they averaged only 14 points per game.
You can see why the Giants only won 3 games last year.
Now hopefully with a healthy Beckham, Engram, Shepard, and Barkley we will see what this team and offense can do.
I am hopeful there will be a significant jump in point production in 2018...
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Anything can happen in the NFL from year to year, and IF they can stay healthy, I have a lot of faith in Shurmur and Eli to put together a winning offensive strategy with an improved offensive line and a ton of offensive firepower.
And, if you look at our defense we have more than above-average talent and a DC who everyone thinks will probably be a head coach a year from now.
All of which points to a 6-8 win team, yet somehow I'm oddly confident about next season
Of course if you zone defend the flats, that opens things up for Beckham and Evans doenfield.
Anything can happen in the NFL from year to year, and IF they can stay healthy, I have a lot of faith in Shurmur and Eli to put together a winning offensive strategy with an improved offensive line and a ton of offensive firepower.
And, if you look at our defense we have more than above-average talent and a DC who everyone thinks will probably be a head coach a year from now.
I think we will be real good to start but where we will lose being in contention or being a teal threat for contention I should say is if injuries start mounting. Our depth sucks thanks to several years of bad drafts. If we can stay relatively healthy we might have a shot for the division
I was viciously and mercilessly attacked...
What you *said* was they drafted Engram to coddle Eli and specifically for Eli. You absolutely implied that he is a petulant person who needed appeasing and outright stated that every player drafted or signed or put on the field was solely to provide him crutches.
Nobody doubts that the team needs good players and also players with skills to do specific things, but your reference to the previous thread is, at best, a distortion of what you actually posted.
I also felt that LT Flowers & RT Hart would "step up" and be much better as they were so young.
Nothing worked out. Injuries and lack of player development made this team 3 - 13.
However, this year with Shurmur at the helm, I expect a "bounce back" year and a winning record. We may only go 9 - 7 but that is an improvement. We have the skill position players to be very, very good on offense. On defense, I'm thinking we'll stop the run fairly well but our secondary is paper thin and we lack pass rush so teams that can create matchup problems for us will get their yards and TD's.
My gut says no worse than 9 - 7 despite the tough schedule and new system. But hey, it all comes down to how much does ELI have left? How will the injury bug be on us? And, how quickly will players grasp the new systems.
I think it would be HUGE if we eeked out a 2 - 0 start. Last year, at 0 - 2, you just felt inside like "these guys were NOT ready to play NFL football. We can't have that this year. The JAGS are superb but we are home and its game 1, anything can happen. We will see soon enough!
Mara has given Eli Manning everything....
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Posters wondered why Engram was not used more for the manner intended, to be a downfield mismatch. The answer was, with a porous Oline and lack of quality targets, Eli had to use him as a safety blanket more and more which shortened his routes.
A poor Oline, no credible WR targets and a skittish immobile QB...the perfect storm.
I got nothing against EE, but our line sucked in 2016. How we passed on two of the top OT prospects is baffling.
Of course if you zone defend the flats, that opens things up for Beckham and Evans doenfield.
Coach Red, How about you consider using other active verbs to describe or define a particular player other than the word rape.
Especially in this time and place.
Really in any time or place
Thank you ahead of time
Its common knowledge he was drafted for that purpose and to get opposing D's out of the cover-2. Due to shitty O-line play and OBJ's injury it didn't work out that way. 2018 is a new year, hopefully we will see it work out the way it was intended.
The checks and balances of BBI...
See here's why I think Engram was drafted. Our TEs sucked balls for years. Engram is very fast, and runs good routes and can causes mismatches. So we drafted him to improve the TE corps and hopefully he catches a lot of passes and TDs because the prior group for years were more known for falling on their heads than making plays.
Its kind of hard to miss when you say something stupid in EVERY thread, including ones about our TE....haha
Lets face it. Police force wasnt your best effort, but i'll attribute that to it being so early. I know you have better stuff for later.
I saw a lot of your posts from last year. Trust me, you don’t need me to continue to say stupid things and derail threads just to hate on Eli.
It couldn't have been for the outlandish and ridiculous claims that ownership was trying to appease Eli.
That's probably why these ponderous threads continue to get started. Because the posters don't even realize how shitty their takes are. Or worse, they do realize it and post just to be annoyances.
You have your tight end take an inside release, if he can defeat the jam at the line of scrimmage, and run down the hole between the split safeties in Cover 2.
None of this had anything to do with drafting Evan Engram anyway. Engram was taken because he had the highest grade at the point they were picking.
This season, on first down, defenses are likely to have their strong safety down in the box, in the play side D-Gap or alley to prevent Barkley from getting to the edge, or in backside A-Gap to stop him from cutting back.
There will be plays this year where the defenders will be in perfect position to make the tackle but it won't matter. Barkley will defeat them anyway.
But can we at least see, I dont know, a series or two or maybe even a game or two?
I got nothing against EE, but our line sucked in 2016. How we passed on two of the top OT prospects is baffling.
This. Both guys were more than worth that pick. Of course we were told but plenty of arm chair GMs they weren’t. Engram is a great kid and a was also worth that spot in a vacum. But with Hart as a right tackle passing on those two guys is why Reese doesn’t have a job. No eye for OL. Never had one.
This talk about Eli is beyond stupid. Look how Rothlesberger reacted to Ptt drafting a QB and he’s talked about retiring. Eli watched them draft Nassib, Webb & now another QB this year on team that had serious needs. Never heard him complain & he worked to help with the young guys.
Anything can happen in the NFL from year to year, and IF they can stay healthy, I have a lot of faith in Shurmur and Eli to put together a winning offensive strategy with an improved offensive line and a ton of offensive firepower.
And, if you look at our defense we have more than above-average talent and a DC who everyone thinks will probably be a head coach a year from now.
Knee theismann
I can see your point and hope that comes true
JCin332
Thanks man
The team lacks talent in all areas, and TE was one of several positions that had been unsettled for many years. RB was another. So is Barkley a luxury pick as well?
:)
i think we have more confidence becuase we know shurmur will make better use of the players they have and i also think bettcher will do more with the defence than spags as well,DG in one offseason did more to fix the OL and running game than reese did in the last 5
Yes to the first two, and Questionable as to the third.
Just saying.
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We needed a TE and he was the best one available when we drafted and the best player available when we drafted?
Yes to the first two, and Questionable as to the third.
Well the last part is always debatable depending on the player and the team, but I think the point still stands. People are making this way more complicated.
2-- The supposed "our offense will be explosive" from last year or year prior was fantasy. If the OLine stinks and you don't have a super passing QB, regardless of your position players, it's laughable to think you'll have an explosive offense.
From there we can then talk about talent issues up front, in the backfield and at wr due to injury.
The problem last two years first and foremost was the coaching.
2-- The supposed "our offense will be explosive" from last year or year prior was fantasy. If the OLine stinks and you don't have a super passing QB, regardless of your position players, it's laughable to think you'll have an explosive offense.
Though I'd likely agree with you, it's difficult to use last year as any kind of proof considering that Marshall gave you nothing at all and Odell was never healthy at any point. So not only didn't they have an offensive line, they also only had no skill pos. players other than a rookie TE.
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1--- You need a good offensive line to give the QB time to make the play.
2-- The supposed "our offense will be explosive" from last year or year prior was fantasy. If the OLine stinks and you don't have a super passing QB, regardless of your position players, it's laughable to think you'll have an explosive offense.
Though I'd likely agree with you, it's difficult to use last year as any kind of proof considering that Marshall gave you nothing at all and Odell was never healthy at any point. So not only didn't they have an offensive line, they also only had no skill pos. players other than a rookie TE.
That's the point. Marshall gave nothing yet they spent money on an old wide receiver thinking they could be this explosive offense. And they were already 0-4 before OBJ went down.
Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.
Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.
"He was hurt in the preaseason" is an excuse. He came out to play.
No offense - I say this in fun and with respect - "Clearly," imo you're wrong. The Line absolutely was part of the problem holding back the team.
The philosophy was clearly a failed one which is why it ws no accident the Giants extremely over paid for Soldier. They picked up Omammeh, picked up a guard in the draft in the early 2nd rd, and let go of many former OL. They are "telling us" that the OL WAS a HUGE problem.
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even before the final injury.
Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.
"He was hurt in the preaseason" is an excuse. He came out to play.
No offense - I say this in fun and with respect - "Clearly," imo you're wrong. The Line absolutely was part of the problem holding back the team.
The philosophy was clearly a failed one which is why it ws no accident the Giants extremely over paid for Soldier. They picked up Omammeh, picked up a guard in the draft in the early 2nd rd, and let go of many former OL. They are "telling us" that the OL WAS a HUGE problem.
I don't see the need to down play what was a legit injury. He was very obviously extremely limited when he did play early in the season, and his production bears that out.There was a lot of talk over whether he'd be able to make it back by week one.
And after OBJ got injured in preseason, it almost looked like they didn't come up with any alternative plans to attack on Offense. I think they were so used to the 2016 game plan to let the defense control the game, lets putter along on Offense and throw a 10 yard slant to OBJ and let him take it 75 yards...oh, wait he wasn't around to help.
Result: 3 points on opening night
That's why they got punched in the mouth by Dallas on opening day, and other teams didn't let up. The reaction to that punch was to lay down and die.
If this year's team is going to have a chance, they will have to come out ready to fight. No more softies.
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In comment 13973780 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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even before the final injury.
Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.
"He was hurt in the preaseason" is an excuse. He came out to play.
No offense - I say this in fun and with respect - "Clearly," imo you're wrong. The Line absolutely was part of the problem holding back the team.
The philosophy was clearly a failed one which is why it ws no accident the Giants extremely over paid for Soldier. They picked up Omammeh, picked up a guard in the draft in the early 2nd rd, and let go of many former OL. They are "telling us" that the OL WAS a HUGE problem.
I don't see the need to down play what was a legit injury. He was very obviously extremely limited when he did play early in the season, and his production bears that out.There was a lot of talk over whether he'd be able to make it back by week one.
I'm sorry but you're giving excuses. He plays - he's ready.
Anything can happen in the NFL from year to year, and IF they can stay healthy, I have a lot of faith in Shurmur and Eli to put together a winning offensive strategy with an improved offensive line and a ton of offensive firepower.
And, if you look at our defense we have more than above-average talent and a DC who everyone thinks will probably be a head coach a year from now.
I completely agree. As bad as we were last year we played the world champs tough both times. We all know we had lousy coaches, a ton of injuries, and guys who quit. This has been rectified.
Hopefully great coaches, no injuries, and guys who play hard. Plus, we have added a lot of new guys who either are pretty darn good or can be pretty darn good. Drafting Barkley instead of Sam to hold a clipboard for two years helps considerably and IMMEDIATELY.
We shall be fine.
A poor Oline, no credible WR targets and a skittish immobile QB...the perfect storm.
Was the OL that bad protecting the qb? I do not believe you have the stats to support this. I thought I saw Pro Football Focus ranked us in the middle, not at the bottom.
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In comment 13973793 giantstock said:
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In comment 13973780 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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even before the final injury.
Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.
"He was hurt in the preaseason" is an excuse. He came out to play.
No offense - I say this in fun and with respect - "Clearly," imo you're wrong. The Line absolutely was part of the problem holding back the team.
The philosophy was clearly a failed one which is why it ws no accident the Giants extremely over paid for Soldier. They picked up Omammeh, picked up a guard in the draft in the early 2nd rd, and let go of many former OL. They are "telling us" that the OL WAS a HUGE problem.
I don't see the need to down play what was a legit injury. He was very obviously extremely limited when he did play early in the season, and his production bears that out.There was a lot of talk over whether he'd be able to make it back by week one.
I'm sorry but you're giving excuses. He plays - he's ready.
That's nonsense. Players take the field while physically compromised with injuries all the time. Players play with arms, hands, and fingers in casts. A person should be smart enough to adjust expectations accordingly.
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In comment 13973793 giantstock said:
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In comment 13973780 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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even before the final injury.
Clearly, the offensive line was bad. But that line wasn't holding back an offense that would have been good if they could pass protect. The skill positions were just as broken.
"He was hurt in the preaseason" is an excuse. He came out to play.
No offense - I say this in fun and with respect - "Clearly," imo you're wrong. The Line absolutely was part of the problem holding back the team.
The philosophy was clearly a failed one which is why it ws no accident the Giants extremely over paid for Soldier. They picked up Omammeh, picked up a guard in the draft in the early 2nd rd, and let go of many former OL. They are "telling us" that the OL WAS a HUGE problem.
I don't see the need to down play what was a legit injury. He was very obviously extremely limited when he did play early in the season, and his production bears that out.There was a lot of talk over whether he'd be able to make it back by week one.
I'm sorry but you're giving excuses. He plays - he's ready.
Odell didn't play week 1...