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Update: OTA Practice #3 Reports

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/24/2018 8:26 pm
FYI...
New York Giants OTA Practice #3 - ( New Window )
Some of you will hate this  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2018 6:16 am : link
The offense has been showing a lot of RPOís (run-pass options) during drills. The Giants didnít do a ton of that last year, and it looks like it might be slightly more prominent in Pat Shurmurís offense. A RPO does not require a quarterback to run it. They will either hand it off, or hold it and throw a pass based on how they read the defense. It is a good way for Manning to use his intelligence and experience to help the team win games.
If using Evan Engram as an H-back  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/25/2018 7:15 am : link
That type of option would be good for getting him physical mismatches. If covered by a LB, option to pass. If covered by a DB, option to run where he will have substantial size advantage for his block.
I don't get why people here the RPO...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/25/2018 7:53 am : link
It's been the most productive trend offensively in the NFL the past few years. Why wouldn't we want to incorporate it?
RE: I don't get why people here the RPO...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2018 9:22 am : link
In comment 13974773 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
It's been the most productive trend offensively in the NFL the past few years. Why wouldn't we want to incorporate it?



I've found that people simply don't like it because it's not perceived as "real football" if it's not some form of typical pro style offense.
RE: RE: I don't get why people here the RPO...  
BigBlueShock : 5/25/2018 9:51 am : link
In comment 13974879 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13974773 Dan in the Springs said:


Quote:


It's been the most productive trend offensively in the NFL the past few years. Why wouldn't we want to incorporate it?




I've found that people simply don't like it because it's not perceived as "real football" if it's not some form of typical pro style offense.

Exactly. Anything different than what people are used to seeing is considered a ďgimmickĒ.
If it helps to  
joeinpa : 5/25/2018 10:03 am : link
PLM GID:, I m all for it.

Play Meaningfull Games In December.
What  
dorgan : 5/25/2018 10:33 am : link
constitutes "real" football?



RE: I don't get why people here the RPO...  
Joey in VA : 5/25/2018 10:59 am : link
In comment 13974773 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
It's been the most productive trend offensively in the NFL the past few years. Why wouldn't we want to incorporate it?
Because it's not RPO. It's the option, the old fashioned middle school and high school option. It's not fancy, it's not nuanced, it's not new it's not "RPO". It's the option and it's simple to defend once you smack the QB in the mouth and a DE decleats the RB running the fake. Most productive trend offensively? Where the fuck are you getting that nonsense?
RE: RE: I don't get why people here the RPO...  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/25/2018 11:51 am : link
In comment 13975034 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13974773 Dan in the Springs said:


Quote:


It's been the most productive trend offensively in the NFL the past few years. Why wouldn't we want to incorporate it?

Because it's not RPO. It's the option, the old fashioned middle school and high school option. It's not fancy, it's not nuanced, it's not new it's not "RPO". It's the option and it's simple to defend once you smack the QB in the mouth and a DE decleats the RB running the fake. Most productive trend offensively? Where the fuck are you getting that nonsense?


It's not the good old fashion option, that Quincy Carter ran in Dallas, or the Read-Option Kaep ran in San Fran.

There is an option to run or pass, but it's not like Eli is going to run out there and run a speed option and pitch to the RB, and get crushed in the process.

And before you go there, yes an option offense does have an option pass that this probably evolved from.
Damn forward passes!  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 5/25/2018 12:21 pm : link
That's not real football!

-coach complaining in 1919
May be a dumb question  
Sect 146 : 5/25/2018 1:42 pm : link
and I will probably get hammered for it but....can someone explain what the difference is between RPO and play action pass?? Is it that the "R" in RPO is the QB running? If not, then it seems like the same thing as play action, no? If it is the QB running, no one in their right mind will bite on this if with Manning as the QB.
RE: May be a dumb question  
Sect 146 : 5/25/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13975278 Sect 146 said:
Quote:
and I will probably get hammered for it but....can someone explain what the difference is between RPO and play action pass?? Is it that the "R" in RPO is the QB running? If not, then it seems like the same thing as play action, no? If it is the QB running, no one in their right mind will bite on this if with Manning as the QB.


Sorry, should have put this on the RPO thread. I see some comments there that answer my question!
RE: RE: May be a dumb question  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/25/2018 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13975284 Sect 146 said:
Quote:
In comment 13975278 Sect 146 said:


Quote:


and I will probably get hammered for it but....can someone explain what the difference is between RPO and play action pass?? Is it that the "R" in RPO is the QB running? If not, then it seems like the same thing as play action, no? If it is the QB running, no one in their right mind will bite on this if with Manning as the QB.



Sorry, should have put this on the RPO thread. I see some comments there that answer my question!


Playaction, you are going to throw the ball no matter what. An RPO the QB has the option to run or pass, depending on how the defense defends the play. QB has the option to keep it a run or a pass.
RE: RE: RE: May be a dumb question  
Sect 146 : 5/25/2018 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13975327 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13975284 Sect 146 said:


Quote:


In comment 13975278 Sect 146 said:


Quote:


and I will probably get hammered for it but....can someone explain what the difference is between RPO and play action pass?? Is it that the "R" in RPO is the QB running? If not, then it seems like the same thing as play action, no? If it is the QB running, no one in their right mind will bite on this if with Manning as the QB.



Sorry, should have put this on the RPO thread. I see some comments there that answer my question!



Playaction, you are going to throw the ball no matter what. An RPO the QB has the option to run or pass, depending on how the defense defends the play. QB has the option to keep it a run or a pass.


But isn't the "action" in play action a fake handoff? They fake like they are going to run with the action of a handoff (pull the LB up) then pull out and throw. This seems like the same intent as the RPO. You and either do the handoff or throw. I guess it becomes a "playaction" once they decide to throw it.
Thanks BigBlue  
Sect 146 : 5/25/2018 2:33 pm : link
I see now that you said the QB decided to run or throw. Again, I do not see how this can be effective with Manning as the QB.
RE: Thanks BigBlue  
HoustonGiant : 5/25/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13975347 Sect 146 said:
Quote:
I see now that you said the QB decided to run or throw. Again, I do not see how this can be effective with Manning as the QB.


Run menas the RB gets the ball.
Pass means Eli throws it.

RPO doesn't mean the QB runs it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: May be a dumb question  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/25/2018 2:39 pm : link
In comment 13975341 Sect 146 said:
Quote:
In comment 13975327 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 13975284 Sect 146 said:


Quote:


In comment 13975278 Sect 146 said:


Quote:


and I will probably get hammered for it but....can someone explain what the difference is between RPO and play action pass?? Is it that the "R" in RPO is the QB running? If not, then it seems like the same thing as play action, no? If it is the QB running, no one in their right mind will bite on this if with Manning as the QB.



Sorry, should have put this on the RPO thread. I see some comments there that answer my question!



Playaction, you are going to throw the ball no matter what. An RPO the QB has the option to run or pass, depending on how the defense defends the play. QB has the option to keep it a run or a pass.



But isn't the "action" in play action a fake handoff? They fake like they are going to run with the action of a handoff (pull the LB up) then pull out and throw. This seems like the same intent as the RPO. You and either do the handoff or throw. I guess it becomes a "playaction" once they decide to throw it.


A playaction pass will 100% be a pass, everytime. A playaction pass, the QB will never ever hand the ball off. Itís 100% a throw from the call.

An RPO you have the option to run or pass depending on how the defense attacks. If they submit more people to the box, the QB will pull the ball up and throw. Is they shit back against the pass,they will hand the ball off. Thatís the main difference, a playaction pass the Rb will never run the ball.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: May be a dumb question  
Sect 146 : 5/25/2018 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13975358 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13975341 Sect 146 said:


Quote:


In comment 13975327 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 13975284 Sect 146 said:


Quote:


In comment 13975278 Sect 146 said:


Quote:


and I will probably get hammered for it but....can someone explain what the difference is between RPO and play action pass?? Is it that the "R" in RPO is the QB running? If not, then it seems like the same thing as play action, no? If it is the QB running, no one in their right mind will bite on this if with Manning as the QB.



Sorry, should have put this on the RPO thread. I see some comments there that answer my question!



Playaction, you are going to throw the ball no matter what. An RPO the QB has the option to run or pass, depending on how the defense defends the play. QB has the option to keep it a run or a pass.



But isn't the "action" in play action a fake handoff? They fake like they are going to run with the action of a handoff (pull the LB up) then pull out and throw. This seems like the same intent as the RPO. You and either do the handoff or throw. I guess it becomes a "playaction" once they decide to throw it.



A playaction pass will 100% be a pass, everytime. A playaction pass, the QB will never ever hand the ball off. Itís 100% a throw from the call.

An RPO you have the option to run or pass depending on how the defense attacks. If they submit more people to the box, the QB will pull the ball up and throw. Is they shit back against the pass,they will hand the ball off. Thatís the main difference, a playaction pass the Rb will never run the ball.

OK, got it, thanks! The play action call is made pre-snap regardless of the defensive formation (no decision). I guess I was also was mistaking RPO with the standard QB option where the QB decides to hand-off or run it himself.
RE: RE: I don't get why people here the RPO...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/25/2018 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13975034 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Because it's not RPO. It's the option, the old fashioned middle school and high school option. It's not fancy, it's not nuanced, it's not new it's not "RPO". It's the option and it's simple to defend once you smack the QB in the mouth and a DE decleats the RB running the fake. Most productive trend offensively? Where the fuck are you getting that nonsense?


Not sure where you're coming from with this, but the trend I'm referring to is that teams are changing their offenses to incorporate RPO concepts into them. It's not a simple middle-school option, and it sure as hell isn't easy to defend. There's a reason that Philly averaged over 400 yards in offense during the postseason with backup Nick Foles at QB. That includes btw over 500 yds of offense (and 41 points) against the most brilliant defensive mind of our generation in the Super Bowl. It also includes beating the team ranked #1 in total defense for the year (Minny) by scoring 38 points and almost 400 yards.

Joey - no doubt you know your football but sometimes you're just wrong, and if you don't think the RPO is a trend in football then this is one of those times. The Giants and other teams aren't simply copying the success of the Eagles, they are installing the RPO as a feature of their offense to make it more competitive, just like many teams already did last year. Shula was running it in Carolina, and Shurmur was learning concepts of it under Chip Kelly years ago. Read this article about the number of teams incorporating RPO concepts into their offenses written last August[, correctly predicting that it would be the play that defined the 2017 season.

This is not an option play. This is a different way to make calls and decisions at the LOS, and it's capable of being used in almost any style of offense. Think of it more like an audible, except the QB doesn't tell anyone and doesn't decide until after the snap. But the running and passing concepts as well as formations can be consistent with basically any pro-style offense.

The thing about the RPO is that it is developing...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/25/2018 3:13 pm : link
more and more each year. Yes, when running an RPO a lot of teams read the edge defender on the LOS to determine whether to run/pass (done at the mesh point) but that was first implemented years ago. Offenses have gotten much more complex since then, and defenses are having to guess about the keys the offenses are reading. Here's an interesting article about defending it analyzing what Saban has successfully done (at times) in Alabama.

Good stuff Dan  
adamg : 5/25/2018 3:41 pm : link
.
Another important distinction  
Emil : 5/25/2018 10:31 pm : link
Between RPO and normal play action is the OL play.

In play action the OL are pass blocking so the only sell of the run comes from the fake handoff. In RPO you frequently have what can be best termed run action from your OL. In RPO the linemen engage like they would in run blocking vs pass blocking sets. This further sells the run pass option.
We beed to next level sh*t up  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/26/2018 10:57 am : link
And run the Run Pass Option Option routes.
RE: What  
Racer : 5/26/2018 11:45 am : link
In comment 13974997 dorgan said:
Quote:
constitutes "real" football?




Not that anybody gives a damn, and I donít come here for a sense of community anyway, but I do get tremendous enjoyment from a stinging left jab by dorgan being followed by a straight right from Joey.

Keep up the good work.
RE: Some of you will hate this  
djm : 5/26/2018 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13974752 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
The offense has been showing a lot of RPOís (run-pass options) during drills. The Giants didnít do a ton of that last year, and it looks like it might be slightly more prominent in Pat Shurmurís offense. A RPO does not require a quarterback to run it. They will either hand it off, or hold it and throw a pass based on how they read the defense. It is a good way for Manning to use his intelligence and experience to help the team win games.


Works for me. I love that this staff wants this offense to evolve and adapt and utilize all avenues in order to succeed.
I also like what Emil said  
idiotsavant : 5/27/2018 2:40 pm : link
Getting the OL playing cat vs mouse wt opposing D fronts reads is what the doctor ordered.
Anything that can get us a first down is welcome site, and  
Jimmy Googs : 5/27/2018 3:05 pm : link
anything that can do it on downs other than 3rd down is pure gold...
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