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Here's how I would handle the NFL's new anthem policy...

Milton : 5/25/2018 4:13 pm
If I were Mara and/or Shurmur. On the morning of a game I would put the names of the 46 players to be active that day into a hat and have one of the team captains pick from it. Whatever name is picked, that player gets to decide whether or not the team will remain in the locker room for the anthem or will stand at attention for it on the sideline.

This accomplishes three things:
1) First and foremost being that whatever it is they do, they do as a team.
2) The decision is made by a player (not someone from ownership or management).
3) The choice of player is random (and all inclusive of those who would be standing or sitting that day), so fairness in representation is assured. And given that it is a 16 game season, the sample set should be large enough that all demographic/socio-economic viewpoints are given a say).
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RE: RE: Milton...  
BlackLight : 5/25/2018 6:52 pm : link
In comment 13975544 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13975522 EricJ said:


Quote:


in addition to what Robbie mentioned, now you could potentially divide a locker room because a player made an unpopular decision.

It shouldn't be unpopular because they are a team and should support each other. That's the whole point. That whatever they do, they do as a team, and they all need to agree on it in the first place. If they can't agree on that, then the plan falls apart before and they would need to go to plan B. But the team has bigger problems if they can't be supportive enough of each other to agree to this all for one and one for all approach. And it's not as if anybody will be asked to kneel (since they will be staying in the locker room), so no one would feel forced to show disrespect (which is a lot worse than feeling compelled to show respect).

The only other plan (than mine) that makes sense to me is for the players to simply remain in the locker room for the anthem. At least in that scenario nobody needs to feel compelled to either respect or disrespect the national anthem.


The only plan that really makes sense is to stop playing the anthem and doing the flag ceremony before the games. At best, it's a phony display of patriotism being orchestrated by the NFL. And now we're seeing what it invites when not everyone is on the same page.
RE: RE: RE: Milton...  
Milton : 5/25/2018 6:58 pm : link
In comment 13975555 BlackLight said:
Quote:

The only plan that really makes sense is to stop playing the anthem and doing the flag ceremony before the games. At best, it's a phony display of patriotism being orchestrated by the NFL. And now we're seeing what it invites when not everyone is on the same page.
Yup.
The Nfl owners shouldn’t have to handle anything  
djm : 5/25/2018 7:01 pm : link
Even if it’s within their rights to handle it anyway they choose. The nfl should have handled this shit the first day kap took a knee and no one could have said jack shit.

These guys are employees! Wanna protest something? Do it on your own fucking time and dime. Period!

Any other take on this is wrong.
Since when does an employer have  
joeinpa : 5/25/2018 7:02 pm : link
To explain to an employee why they cannot indulge in a behavior that is hurting the company's brand.

Paying customers !!  
djm : 5/25/2018 7:06 pm : link
Fucking Paying customers!

Players are paid due to the paying customer.

Hello?

Goodell should have imposed strict fines and punishments to the offending player or players and moved on. Anyone crying about it could have been shown the nfl bylaws or whatever they are called.

Can’t believe how confused or lost some are despite the cut and dried nature of thing thing. Once the Nfl failed to act they put the presure on the owners. The owners can’t win here now because they come across as the heavy if and when they rightfully bring the hammer down on a player.

Goodell is a chicken shit asshole.
RE: ...  
djm : 5/25/2018 7:08 pm : link
In comment 13975466 christian said:
Quote:
From just an intellectual, philosophical perspective on the basics of our country, constitution, and history, I find it perplexing it's offensive to some that others feel differently than them and express themselves.


Express yourself on your own dime. Not on mine!!!

That’s the perplexing thing to me. And what’s more perplexing is that said player picks THAT hill of all hills to stand on. How convenient. I’ll protest during the fight song of the very country that my job is representing.

It’s bullshit. Sorry. It is.
RE: Since when does an employer have  
bceagle05 : 5/25/2018 7:10 pm : link
In comment 13975562 joeinpa said:
Quote:
To explain to an employee why they cannot indulge in a behavior that is hurting the company's brand.


They don't. But in this case, the brand will be hurt if they try to stop players from indulging in said behavior. Quite a conundrum. NFL players aren't your typical 9-to-5ers.
RE: Players wrong  
djm : 5/25/2018 7:12 pm : link
In comment 13975520 Hilary said:
Quote:
Most fans,even those with very high incomes, go to work and obey company policies while at work. Most know that discussing politics at work does little to improve the work environment or esprit de corps. Most people know that political "placards" or demonstrations in the work place are bound to offend a significant portion of the people whose money supports the business and the workers.
Players should be like everyone else and follow company policy while at work and use their stature fame and resources to promote their cause on their own time.


Wow! What a concept!!

You mean I should not go to work on Tuesday and right in the middle of my dept meeting scream out how much i hate my local congressman? Bad idea?
I’m sorry  
djm : 5/25/2018 7:15 pm : link
But I think many of these young dumb athletes are doing so at that very moment simply to say FU to the entire world.

Why don’t any of these guys speak up during interviews? They are interviewed all week long. Not a word. Most can’t can’t to get the hell away from the microphone even though media speaking is in their very job description. But no, let’s go ahead and kneel during a song that honors the veterans of this country. Why? Just to say FU to the police force. Gimme a fucking break.
The best way the owners could have handled the anthem  
eclipz928 : 5/25/2018 7:20 pm : link
was to do nothing at all. A few players this year may have continued to kneel, but it likely would not have garnered much attention as the story for most people has run its course.

But by the NFL owners implementing the rule and forcing the players to stand it only serves to bring more attention back to the sideline pregame, much like how the president came out of no where and made a comment about it served to reignite the issue.

This was just an incredibly dumb move by the owners and without a doubt it's going to blow up in the NFL's face. The coaches are smarter than the owners . . . I expect most of them will stay the hell out of this and let the players do what they want and leave it to the league to decide on what to do once the players inevitably defy the rule.
Chris Long speaks up all the time.  
bceagle05 : 5/25/2018 7:20 pm : link
So does Doug Baldwin. So does Malcolm Jenkins. So do a host of others. Must come across as guys you'd want your sons to grow up to be like.
*Most.  
bceagle05 : 5/25/2018 7:21 pm : link
.
djm  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 5/25/2018 7:26 pm : link
Is your exclamation point key stuck down?

I just don't understand why this shit upsets people so much. If you feel that one should stand during the anthem, then fucking stand, you can't control others.

You are right about the NFL having every authority to control what these players do on company time, but the truth is that most making this argument are using it as a veil. The truth is that it pissed you off, and you want to shut them up. Hence the "!!!!" At least be honest.
I think is misguided to view the NFL  
Reb8thVA : 5/25/2018 7:29 pm : link
Or any of the other big four professional sports leagues as your average ordinary work place with standard rules and norms because they aren’t. The NFL is a partnership, perhaps an unequal one, where the owners and players are dependent on each other. The players get paid by the owners, but the owners big time profits depend on the players. It’s not like you can fire a bunch of players and go ou on the street and pick some one up at the corner that people will pay good money to watch and by team merchandise. They tried it with the scab games and it didn’t go over well. The best decion would be for the owners to fund a larger campaign to bring greater awareness to the problems of police brutality and racial injustice in return for an end to the protests. If it is correct that the owners rammed this decision through without consulting or with buy in from the players they just simply bought themselves a whole bunch of more trouble. The protests will morph into something else . That new CBA agreement is going to be much more difficult to negotiate, not to mention they are going to alienate the other half of the fan base who views the decision as nothing more than spineless know towing to a two bit tyrant.
RE: Why Goodell did not go to the Players Union  
Reb8thVA : 5/25/2018 7:30 pm : link
In comment 13975483 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
and ask what it would take....I will never know. This is not an issue anyplace else.

I will say that sports in general are wrapping themselves far to up in the flag. Cut all this pregame bullshit out and just have a simple rendition of the Anthem.


+1
RE: I think is misguided to view the NFL  
bceagle05 : 5/25/2018 7:35 pm : link
Quote:
Or any of the other big four professional sports leagues as your average ordinary work place.


This statement should be pinned to the top of every discussion on the subject. I'm sure there are some smart, hard-working folks on this site, but we don't have the power of football players. If I went to jail for running a dog fighting ring, my company probably wouldn't rehire me when my sentence was up. A little different world for athletes - they can defy bosses.
I agree that this is one big FY.  
Giant John : 5/25/2018 7:38 pm : link
I don’t participate and I don’t go to games. I’m not going to help give those players a platform to protest while they take advantage of their right and make millions in the process. If they feel that strongly then donate their huge salaries and really help to make things better.
Ya..
That will happen.
Who is the Authority?  
G-crew18 : 5/25/2018 7:45 pm : link
It is ludicrous that the Anthem policy is an issue. The players forget that they are being paid by the owners of the franchises and the fans who fill the stadiums. Therefore it's their right to instill acceptable policy. Until the players provide their own salary they need to adhere to the rules of their ownership.

How many of poster on this forum can go against your employer's policies and rules? How many can protest at their place at their place of work and keep their job? If such are the guidelines by which we live, why is it acceptable that pampered athletes have such entitlements? If they want to become activists for a specific agenda, they should do so on their own time, not owners or fans dime.
RE: I agree that this is one big FY.  
eclipz928 : 5/25/2018 7:46 pm : link
In comment 13975584 Giant John said:
Quote:
I don’t participate and I don’t go to games. I’m not going to help give those players a platform to protest while they take advantage of their right and make millions in the process. If they feel that strongly then donate their huge salaries and really help to make things better.
Ya..
That will happen.

Who do you think they should donate their salaries to?
So getting rid of the anthem is the solution?  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2018 7:46 pm : link
You guys can’t be serious can you? That’s essentially letting the players dictate the rules which would make the NFL a laughingstock, even more than it is now.

Milton, you are way off here. This isn’t high school JV football. This is a major societal issue that your solution is further cramming down the throats of many players who just want to be left alone. The NFL is a business and not just for the owners. Most players treat it as a business as well and want to go to work, and go home. Now your forcing them to act on something they want nothing to do with?

All these solutions are half assed. Deal with the kneeling or ban it, anyhing else is going to prolong it and make it worse.
RE: Who is the Authority?  
Reb8thVA : 5/25/2018 7:52 pm : link
In comment 13975589 G-crew18 said:
Quote:
It is ludicrous that the Anthem policy is an issue. The players forget that they are being paid by the owners of the franchises and the fans who fill the stadiums. Therefore it's their right to instill acceptable policy. Until the players provide their own salary they need to adhere to the rules of their ownership.

How many of poster on this forum can go against your employer's policies and rules? How many can protest at their place at their place of work and keep their job? If such are the guidelines by which we live, why is it acceptable that pampered athletes have such entitlements? If they want to become activists for a specific agenda, they should do so on their own time, not owners or fans dime.


So if the players Union goes on strike are you willing to make same financial and time investment watching scab players?
RE: So getting rid of the anthem is the solution?  
BlackLight : 5/25/2018 7:56 pm : link
In comment 13975592 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
You guys can’t be serious can you? That’s essentially letting the players dictate the rules which would make the NFL a laughingstock, even more than it is now.


No, it wouldn't. And even if it did, how is "dealing with" the kneeling (which is one of your proposed solutions) not also a case where the players have effectively dictated what the rules will be?

The NFL is already a laughingstock on this issue. Anyone who's been paying attention should have long ago realized that the NFL cares about the military, veterans, the flag, and the anthem, about as much as they care about breast cancer awareness or former players with CTE. We should stop giving them credit they haven't earned.
RE: Fire the son of a bish!  
Captplanet : 5/25/2018 7:57 pm : link
In comment 13975455 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
Our grandparents didn't storm the beaches of Normandy so that Kapernick can disrespect our country because he's butthurt he couldn't beat out Blaine Gabbert!



Kapernick's and other African American players grandparents fought in World war 2, Vietnam, and Korea, just like your grandparents. The only difference is they don't see cops killing Americans that look like you and getting away with it.
Just saying...
I’m not giving the NFL credit for anything  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2018 8:03 pm : link
I can’t stand the NFL, they are run by people I loathe. But they need to eliminate the issue in order for business to get back to where they want it and skirting around the issue isn’t going to help them achieve that.

Having the players stay in the locker, 15 yard penalties, letting 1 player decide what the team does that week....it’s all garbage. The NFL needs to put the issue to bed and the only way that can be done is fully supporting the protests or banning them. It may sting at first but it would eventually go away.

Getting rid of the anthem would be an absolute joke mainly because the players will just find something else to protest.
RE: I’m not giving the NFL credit for anything  
BlackLight : 5/25/2018 8:14 pm : link
In comment 13975605 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I can’t stand the NFL, they are run by people I loathe. But they need to eliminate the issue in order for business to get back to where they want it and skirting around the issue isn’t going to help them achieve that.

Having the players stay in the locker, 15 yard penalties, letting 1 player decide what the team does that week....it’s all garbage. The NFL needs to put the issue to bed and the only way that can be done is fully supporting the protests or banning them. It may sting at first but it would eventually go away.

Getting rid of the anthem would be an absolute joke mainly because the players will just find something else to protest.


They left the issue alone for all of last season, and business suffered (apparently as a result). Which is why they created this new policy - which is almost certainly going to exacerbate the situation.

As long as the NFL insists on wrapping themselves in God & Country before every single game, the issue will persist. Ditch the pre-game sanctimony, and you remove the platform for effective civil protest.
But they aren’t the only sports entity to honor the flag  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2018 8:29 pm : link
yet they are the only one having his problem. I fail to see how you think this goes away if the anthem is removed. The same people bothered by players kneeling will be as much or more pissed about their tradition being taken away. This is about their customers, who if angered, will continue to leave.

It just doesn’t make sense.
Just curious  
Marty866b : 5/25/2018 8:41 pm : link
How many posters here who think it's very wrong for the players to kneel are black? Again,just curious.
I find it amazing that  
adambear : 5/25/2018 8:51 pm : link
in situations such as these, so many people side with the giant corporations and their bottomline. It's almost as if people project themselves as the monopoly, not the monopolized.
RE: I find it amazing that  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2018 8:54 pm : link
In comment 13975639 adambear said:
Quote:
in situations such as these, so many people side with the giant corporations and their bottomline. It's almost as if people project themselves as the monopoly, not the monopolized.


Who’s siding with the nfl?
Not many people here  
adambear : 5/25/2018 8:58 pm : link
admittedly, but people around the country for sure.

All because of their religious attachment to patriotism, you see people defending the actions of owners because "they want to protect their money." What sports fan watches games so that the businessmen running it prosper?
Patriotism has become  
adambear : 5/25/2018 8:59 pm : link
cultish. And it's especially weird because being patriotic in America means loving America for being America, which is the "land of the free". Lol
Sorry I'm just rambling lol  
adambear : 5/25/2018 9:01 pm : link
...
But it is a business and they are protecting their brand/revenue  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2018 9:14 pm : link
I don’t think pointing that out is taking their side. I don’t have a side, I lost interest in the NFL well before kneeling (which means nothing to me personally). I just have a problem with people thinking it’s ok to do whatever you want on company time, regardless of the cause, if it’s jeopardizing the business.

My other issue is that celebrities, or athletes in this case, are often disingenuous. I have no doubt this is a serious issue that many players believe in, but why aren’t they doing more? Is it because it would require hem to spend their free time and money to organize?

The whole things is just weird. I believe in the cause but the severe lack in follow through with anything that doesn’t involve the cameras is bothersome.
RE: Players wrong  
Kanavis : 5/25/2018 9:15 pm : link
In comment 13975520 Hilary said:
Quote:
Most fans,even those with very high incomes, go to work and obey company policies while at work. Most know that discussing politics at work does little to improve the work environment or esprit de corps. Most people know that political "placards" or demonstrations in the work place are bound to offend a significant portion of the people whose money supports the business and the workers.
Players should be like everyone else and follow company policy while at work and use their stature fame and resources to promote their cause on their own time.


While most of us indeed would not be able to do this at work, I am not sure the comparison between everyone with a 'job' and a 'boss' with an NFL player is valid. These aren't employees at the local store. They are the very best on the planet at what they do. The league relies on them to exist. They play under contracts that have been collectively bargained. And, the NFL had no rule against kneeling. There was only the suggestion that the players 'should' stand (not 'must') in the NFL procedures manual. The players risk their physical and mental well being, and most are out of the league in a few years. As for the owners, they care about one thing...not loosing money (including the money they charge the military). How many people were previously upset that the networks weren't showing the anthem? How many people were getting beers during the anthem?

I understand why someone might be upset at the protests. And yes, some might be better served by directing more energy to the cause off the field. But let's not pretend owners are upstanding folks and that the NFL is a wholesome, patriotic league. Far from it. They will develop the rule/procedure that they think will save them the most money.
UConn  
adambear : 5/25/2018 9:22 pm : link
I agree with much of what you said, but let us not forget that Kaepernick got blackballed from this league, and he's the one who started this. He does a TON for his community. Ingenuity has nothing to do with it.

People are just jealous of athletes because they got wealthy off a talent they could never have. People are usually less jealous of other millionaires because they (wrongfully) believe that that some outcome is achievable for them. So with that in mind, people are unnecessarily hard on athletes. "I couldn't get away with that at my pencil pushing job!!"

Being an NFL athlete is a unique thing and not translatable. And people refuse to grapple with that nuance.

How many workplaces  
capegman : 5/25/2018 9:25 pm : link
Start a shift with standing for the National anthem? I dont know of any
Just get rid of the Anthem at sporting events. Problem solved.
The crosshatching of  
adambear : 5/25/2018 9:27 pm : link
patriotism with sport is really confounding. It's a marketing ploy for the NFL, but people are so zealously patriotic that they refuse to see it as anything other than loving their country and the awesome sports they invented.

The flyovers, the military salutes, the camo gear, it's all to market to these zealots. It works, and it makes money.
I get it  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2018 9:28 pm : link
but business is business. Part of the reason why players aren’t doing more is because they’d lose money either in their next contract if they are deemed a problem or through a drop in sponsors.

Athletes like money too, it’s isnt just the old crusty white guys. There isn’t a single reason why the stars of this league aren’t doing more.
There isn’t a single reason why  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2018 9:29 pm : link
other than money*
SO it's ok  
adambear : 5/25/2018 9:37 pm : link
for owners to protect their bottom line but athletes should do more...?
RE: SO it's ok  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2018 9:46 pm : link
In comment 13975694 adambear said:
Quote:
for owners to protect their bottom line but athletes should do more...?


It’s ok for the owners to care and protect their bottom line. No different than any other company. And that’s separate from how athletes go about enacting societal change, they can go do whatever they want on their own time. The problem is they don’t, which I find really fucking strange (not all of them but most of them).

I think the NFL should be helping the players organize things in each community, they really dropped that ball hard. But either way it doesn’t give an employee the right to disrupt business, regardless of the cause.
To be fair,  
adambear : 5/25/2018 10:07 pm : link
protest is disruption, that's the whole point.

If the NFL silences the protests (for money reasons), it's their right, but it doesn't mean it *Is* right.

Now, did the NFL play a role in police brutality? No. And to be fair, they're in a tough spot. But by silencing those protests, they've put themselves in the heart of the problem. They *blackballed* the player who started all of this.

Does that mean the protests are working? Sort of. It's shining a light on now a few American problems. Will it lead to change? Probably not. So those who knelt have done a lot for their community. They used their platform to address a problem. Now, we're more alert to the problem at hand. That's not insignificant.
But, not, so  
adambear : 5/25/2018 10:08 pm : link
in that 2nd to last sentence.
Bottom Line  
Dan_Soprano : 5/25/2018 10:08 pm : link
It’s a privilege not a right to play in the NFL. I’ve been in the US Navy 21 years. My job requires me to stand and salute the flag. Same thing here. It’s not violating these rich assholes first amendment rights at all requiring them to stand. If it was the government requiring them to then that would be a violation of the constitution. In this case it’s not. They can either abide by the employer’s rules or go screw themselves. Go spend your millions to help iin challenged areas, make a real change instead of buying another BMW or Benz.
Racist watch dog says woof.  
adambear : 5/25/2018 10:10 pm : link
.
Also comparing your  
adambear : 5/25/2018 10:11 pm : link
job in the Navy to a job in entertainment. Ookay.
RE: Also comparing your  
Dan_Soprano : 5/25/2018 10:15 pm : link
In comment 13975715 adambear said:
Quote:
job in the Navy to a job in entertainment. Ookay.
you are truly and ignorant asshole...
RE: Racist watch dog says woof.  
bigbluehoya : 5/25/2018 10:15 pm : link
In comment 13975714 adambear said:
Quote:
.


Was there a racist post? Must have been deleted and I missed?

Or is anybody who happens to not see eye-to-eye with you a racist?
And how am I ignorant?  
adambear : 5/25/2018 10:15 pm : link
Because I understand the difference between working FOR the country and working IN the country?
Because saying black people  
adambear : 5/25/2018 10:17 pm : link
Or excuse me, "rich assholes", spend their money on Benzes and BMWs rather than their community is precisely ignorant and racist, maybe.
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