If I were Mara and/or Shurmur. On the morning of a game I would put the names of the 46 players to be active that day into a hat and have one of the team captains pick from it. Whatever name is picked, that player gets to decide whether or not the team will remain in the locker room for the anthem or will stand at attention for it on the sideline.
This accomplishes three things:
1) First and foremost being that whatever it is they do, they do as a team.
2) The decision is made by a player (not someone from ownership or management).
3) The choice of player is random (and all inclusive of those who would be standing or sitting that day), so fairness in representation is assured. And given that it is a 16 game season, the sample set should be large enough that all demographic/socio-economic viewpoints are given a say).
I'll wait.
Protests in the streets have a tendency to turn violent, which also angers people.
Players do it in a peaceful, non disruptive way and people are still mad.
So when is the right time to protest?
I'll wait.
If you’re inferring “BMW” to secretly mean “black person”, you’re not part of a solution.
But to be fair, players did eventually get let go. Kaepernick and Reid got black balled. That's the risk the players took.
If the NFL silences the protests (for money reasons), it's their right, but it doesn't mean it *Is* right.
Now, did the NFL play a role in police brutality? No. And to be fair, they're in a tough spot. But by silencing those protests, they've put themselves in the heart of the problem. They *blackballed* the player who started all of this.
Does that mean the protests are working? Sort of. It's shining a light on now a few American problems. Will it lead to change? Probably not. So those who knelt have done a lot for their community. They used their platform to address a problem. Now, we're more alert to the problem at hand. That's not insignificant.
Not quite. They are protesting, and currently being paid to protest, easy right? They aren’t threatening a stoppage over it, why would they? Like I said, too much money on the line for both parties.
Protests in the streets have a tendency to turn violent, which also angers people.
Players do it in a peaceful, non disruptive way and people are still mad.
So when is the right time to protest?
Vast, vast majority of protests in the streets *do not* turn violent. They happen every single day. They’re like airplane flights. They mostly aren’t news. The crashes are news.
One nuance that seems to be lost in the discussions this week — few people are coming out this week and “blaming” the players for anything. The owners took some action this week. In return, there’s been some “outrage” (trite, but whatever you want to call it). And a bunch of people are saying “meh, seems to me the owners are well within their rights to do that”.
One can have that opinion without vilifying the players / being a racist / not believing in free speech. Easily.
I'll wait.
Did you sleep through Occupy Wall Street?
There are of course exceptions and a lot of great work being done. But it isn’t enough and the NFL can help with this but they fucked that up too. It’s on both sides, but I do think it should be during “non business hours”. Many paying customers don’t want to see it (right or wrong) and that’s where we are at.
This. I'm sure John Mara realizes that it's important to the Giants' interests to keep the team united. Don't put this choice on the players.
First of all,how does athletes spending their money in economically underdeveloped black areas do anything about police brutality? Seriously, you could turn every depressed black neighborhood in the country into into Wakanda and that wouldn't do a thing about police brutality.
Every black man, regardless of education and economic status, has to be concerned about police brutality. Black people get arrested, or beaten, or tased, or shot, for no particular reason all the time, regardless of how much money they have. Just the news of this past week showed that pretty clearly. "Driving while black" is real. That's why these rich, privileged men are the perfect people to protest police brutality. Their wealth and privilege does not spare them this threat.
And another thing: these athletes come from all different kinds of communities; if you think "their community" is "economically depressed places where poor black people live," you're already stereotyping.
First of all,how does athletes spending their money in economically underdeveloped black areas do anything about police brutality? Seriously, you could turn every depressed black neighborhood in the country into into Wakanda and that wouldn't do a thing about police brutality.
Every black man, regardless of education and economic status, has to be concerned about police brutality. Black people get arrested, or beaten, or tased, or shot, for no particular reason all the time, regardless of how much money they have. Just the news of this past week showed that pretty clearly. "Driving while black" is real. That's why these rich, privileged men are the perfect people to protest police brutality. Their wealth and privilege does not spare them this threat.
And another thing: these athletes come from all different kinds of communities; if you think "their community" is "economically depressed places where poor black people live," you're already stereotyping.
it's a political discussion on a non political site.
a lot of it does hinge on fake news and identity politics. If this was to be a successful protest it would have to be removed from BLM. Also,the mainstream media is not willing to present these things in an intelligent way.
There are other ways to protest that does not offend the veterans and flag (and reduce NFL revenues). Just pick one, its not that difficult.
This is really IT...along with the fact that the players are employees and at the very base of it, employees have limited NATURAL rights. There are a lot of things that you have the right to do and are legal in this country that you cant do while at your job. Almost all employers prohibit ddrinking while working. Almost ALL employers dont allow you to carry a gun to work. Almost ALL jobs do not allow for religious practices while working. Almost ALL jobs don't allow you to truly demonstrate your right to freely speak your mind.
If you feel this is intolerable to you, most state laws dictate you go find a new job that is more suiting to your needs. Thats really all there is to it. It's not your company....not your rules.
The anthem has been played before every NFL game since the US got into WW2. In fact, the full participation of the US in that war is what prompted MLB and the NFL to start playing the anthem. So those of you who are saying that the anthem isnt an homage to veterans and that they shouldnt get offended are either lying to yourselves or are ignorant to the history behind the star spangled banner being played before games.
The facts are, the players are employees. The owners are the employers (yes, they are the BOSSES). The bosses dont want the players to upset their customers with an unpopular form of protest. That should be that. If the player(s) dont like that fact enough to justify playing the game, they are free to seek another source of income. If fans respond by not showing up because Colin Kaepernick isnt playing because of this ruling, then the bosses have to decide if their point is worth the drop in revenue. But thats not the way it is...the market is speaking against allowing the protest.
The players have plenty of free time diring the offseason to organize and pursue these demonstrations. 6 minths in fact. But you dont see that happening. And lets not forget the fact that they want to kneel during a tribute to the military in order to protest social injustice. Its just stupid and attention whoring. There is absolutely no justification for their cause in my opinion.
Stand, or you are suspended without pay.
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If kneeling is reducing audience and revenue 7% by offending some of their audience, then either stand or reduce all salaries 7%. We know which way that vote will go. The Dixie Chicks learned the hard way about mixing politics and business.
There are other ways to protest that does not offend the veterans and flag (and reduce NFL revenues). Just pick one, its not that difficult.
This is really IT...along with the fact that the players are employees and at the very base of it, employees have limited NATURAL rights. There are a lot of things that you have the right to do and are legal in this country that you cant do while at your job. Almost all employers prohibit ddrinking while working. Almost ALL employers dont allow you to carry a gun to work. Almost ALL jobs do not allow for religious practices while working. Almost ALL jobs don't allow you to truly demonstrate your right to freely speak your mind.
If you feel this is intolerable to you, most state laws dictate you go find a new job that is more suiting to your needs. Thats really all there is to it. It's not your company....not your rules.
The anthem has been played before every NFL game since the US got into WW2. In fact, the full participation of the US in that war is what prompted MLB and the NFL to start playing the anthem. So those of you who are saying that the anthem isnt an homage to veterans and that they shouldnt get offended are either lying to yourselves or are ignorant to the history behind the star spangled banner being played before games.
The facts are, the players are employees. The owners are the employers (yes, they are the BOSSES). The bosses dont want the players to upset their customers with an unpopular form of protest. That should be that. If the player(s) dont like that fact enough to justify playing the game, they are free to seek another source of income. If fans respond by not showing up because Colin Kaepernick isnt playing because of this ruling, then the bosses have to decide if their point is worth the drop in revenue. But thats not the way it is...the market is speaking against allowing the protest.
The players have plenty of free time diring the offseason to organize and pursue these demonstrations. 6 minths in fact. But you dont see that happening. And lets not forget the fact that they want to kneel during a tribute to the military in order to protest social injustice. Its just stupid and attention whoring. There is absolutely no justification for their cause in my opinion.
Stand, or you are suspended without pay.
I agree with the reduction of salary lost by the kneeling, however I wouldn’t take from the ones that stand but I would reduce the ones kneeling to compensate for the lost revenue. I replied to you chopperhatch to say very well written.
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The kneeling protest is against police brutality. I don't understand the argument: "Hey rich athlete, stop kneeling against police brutality, that doesn't cost you anything. Go help build your community."
First of all,how does athletes spending their money in economically underdeveloped black areas do anything about police brutality? Seriously, you could turn every depressed black neighborhood in the country into into Wakanda and that wouldn't do a thing about police brutality.
Every black man, regardless of education and economic status, has to be concerned about police brutality. Black people get arrested, or beaten, or tased, or shot, for no particular reason all the time, regardless of how much money they have. Just the news of this past week showed that pretty clearly. "Driving while black" is real. That's why these rich, privileged men are the perfect people to protest police brutality. Their wealth and privilege does not spare them this threat.
And another thing: these athletes come from all different kinds of communities; if you think "their community" is "economically depressed places where poor black people live," you're already stereotyping.
it's a political discussion on a non political site.
a lot of it does hinge on fake news and identity politics. If this was to be a successful protest it would have to be removed from BLM. Also,the mainstream media is not willing to present these things in an intelligent way.
Everything in the world is connected to politics in some way. If you want to avoid politics you should probably move to the North Pole.
There are of course exceptions and a lot of great work being done. But it isn’t enough and the NFL can help with this but they fucked that up too. It’s on both sides, but I do think it should be during “non business hours”. Many paying customers don’t want to see it (right or wrong) and that’s where we are at.
Kaepernick has donated millions. So have a number of other players. It isn't noisy and sexy because the media doesn't blow it up. Accusing them of not doing work in the community because they aren't getting paid is horse shit.
These incredibly rich and visible individuals chose to stand up for their cause when people would notice.
"Many paying customers don't want to see it", well I'm sure Sterling Brown didn't want to get ganged up on for illegally parking.
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Our grandparents didn't storm the beaches of Normandy so that Kapernick can disrespect our country because he's butthurt he couldn't beat out Blaine Gabbert!
AMEN
+1
Trampled, discarded flags at Packers game leave veterans grumbling - ( New Window )
2. The reason for the protests are absolutely fine. The method is 100% wrong. Their issue was police brutality. It would be more effective for players in each NFL city to protest in front of a police station on their time off. Then, you are targeting the root of your issue. When you protest the anthem, you are essentially casting a net so wide that you end up making it much worse for your cause and for the NFL.
Just keep beating that Blaine Gabbert drum, troll.
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but it pales in comparison to the outcry if the NFL actually forced players to stand. Right now those who dislike the kneeling are the most vocal - the folks who support the players, or don't care that much, aren't gonna get that riled up about it. If the NFL makes it their official policy that players must stand, that pendulum swings quickly in the other direction.
That's the part the "It's a private business, they can do what they want!" crowd doesn't seem to factor in. Sure, they can do what they want, and league sponsors will be the ones to feel the wrath. There will be a shitstorm of public pressure that will dwarf what's going on right now.
Doesn’t the military pay the NFL to have the flag ceremonies and playing of the anthem, therefore making them a sponsor???
The amount they pay compared to corporate sponsors (like in-stadium pouring rights, for example) is a rounding error for the NFL.
How many of poster on this forum can go against your employer's policies and rules? How many can protest at their place at their place of work and keep their job? If such are the guidelines by which we live, why is it acceptable that pampered athletes have such entitlements? If they want to become activists for a specific agenda, they should do so on their own time, not owners or fans dime.
Lost in all of that is why it is logically reasonable to connect a national anthem and flag ceremony to a sporting event being marketed and sold as entertainment. The two things don't have to be connected in the first place.
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When people take to the streets and march, it's "why don't those bums go to work".
Protests in the streets have a tendency to turn violent, which also angers people.
Players do it in a peaceful, non disruptive way and people are still mad.
So when is the right time to protest?
Vast, vast majority of protests in the streets *do not* turn violent. They happen every single day. They’re like airplane flights. They mostly aren’t news. The crashes are news.
One nuance that seems to be lost in the discussions this week — few people are coming out this week and “blaming” the players for anything. The owners took some action this week. In return, there’s been some “outrage” (trite, but whatever you want to call it). And a bunch of people are saying “meh, seems to me the owners are well within their rights to do that”.
One can have that opinion without vilifying the players / being a racist / not believing in free speech. Easily.
Here's the thing that I find interesting. If a group takes to the streets and stages a peaceful march in protest (or support) of a particular issue or cause, it disrupts traffic, but isn't seen as an affront to traffic lights and stop signs. It is seen as a channel by which the protest can happen and be disruptive enough to be noticed (which is the point). The manner in which you protest is not always the thing that you are protesting against.
There is no reason for them to be complicit in damaging the league's image. They should be able to get an agreement to not report on these minor protests. Sure, some stories would still surface, but the hysteria would be limited if they could get their partners who create their televised product to agree not to show or discuss such protests during an NFL broadcast.
I think it has been happening too long to get rid of it. It would end up being a bigger black eye on NFL. They should play it before teams are announced at beginning of game. It has now become a political football. Sadly it has divided people on Anthem instead of bringing people to the original cause. Sad how it has come to this. It had all but gone away until Trump mentioned it at rally. Now it seems to have morphed into something that has no good answer. All people in every category are split on this, doesn't matter race,occupation,military, Non military, Republican, democrat. NFL has always been neutral territory, no sucked into politics. Sucks.
2. The reason for the protests are absolutely fine. The method is 100% wrong. Their issue was police brutality. It would be more effective for players in each NFL city to protest in front of a police station on their time off. Then, you are targeting the root of your issue. When you protest the anthem, you are essentially casting a net so wide that you end up making it much worse for your cause and for the NFL.
1. You're presuming that all people who serve in the military have a monolithic view of this issue. Not all, and likely not even most, veterans view the kneeling as a sign of disrespect.
2. And again, it seems like the message is being lost to those who aren't listening carefully. Protesting in front of a police station would not be effective because the issue of concern is not narrowly the police as an institution - it's systemic.
The resolution that's being called for (an end to police brutality) begins first with public awareness and acceptance, and then a demand for accountability from civilians.
Just get rid of the Anthem at sporting events. Problem solved.
Right? Watching football is an escape for me. I want to be able to watch football without having another "We're the greatest most heroic most free country ever!" message shoved down my throat!
So then you are saying that you are perfectly willing to watch the sub par athletes the owners try to replace the professionals with like the scab games. You guys don’t get it. The NFL and other professional sports are a partnership between the owners and the players they need each other to sustain the $13-14 billion dollar product they have created. It’s not like the usual employer/employee relationships most of us are accustomed to.
It's not included in the clip linked above, but it follows with the Colonel confiding to the Sergeant...
First of all,how does athletes spending their money in economically underdeveloped black areas do anything about police brutality? Seriously, you could turn every depressed black neighborhood in the country into into Wakanda and that wouldn't do a thing about police brutality.
Every black man, regardless of education and economic status, has to be concerned about police brutality. Black people get arrested, or beaten, or tased, or shot, for no particular reason all the time, regardless of how much money they have. Just the news of this past week showed that pretty clearly. "Driving while black" is real. That's why these rich, privileged men are the perfect people to protest police brutality. Their wealth and privilege does not spare them this threat.
And another thing: these athletes come from all different kinds of communities; if you think "their community" is "economically depressed places where poor black people live," you're already stereotyping.
Very nice and succinct post.
I've been out of the country for a few weeks and am just catching up on the news... this story about the Bucks player who was tased or whatever seems very germane to this discussion.
2. The reason for the protests are absolutely fine. The method is 100% wrong. Their issue was police brutality. It would be more effective for players in each NFL city to protest in front of a police station on their time off. Then, you are targeting the root of your issue. When you protest the anthem, you are essentially casting a net so wide that you end up making it much worse for your cause and for the NFL.
So you would you agree then that 150 colonist dressing up as native Americans dumping tea belonging to the British East India Company because they opposed taxation without representation was wrong?
People are just jealous of athletes because they got wealthy off a talent they could never have. People are usually less jealous of other millionaires because they (wrongfully) believe that that some outcome is achievable for them. So with that in mind, people are unnecessarily hard on athletes. "I couldn't get away with that at my pencil pushing job!!"
Being an NFL athlete is a unique thing and not translatable. And people refuse to grapple with that nuance.
^^ban this troll for spreading misinfo. Snowflake Kapernick did not get blackballed, he is suxor and can't beat out Blake Bortles.
Personally I’m fine with the kneeling, doesn’t bother me at all and I sympathize with the cause (although the whole thing is getting pretty ridiculous at this point). But not enough is being done, and that’s on the NFL and the players and the owners.
I'll wait.
1. White people are the only ones to own boats and beach house? Hmmmm, since when?
2. Regardless of how you want to divide people, how someone spends the money that they earned is no body's f-ing business but their own; that's why.
They're not protesting the flag, nor are they protesting the military. They are protesting an issue. An issue that they feel is systemic in this country.
The flag is merely a symbol. The military doesn't defend the flag, they defend our freedom. That freedom includes people who may have opinions that vary across many subjects. That freedom includes the ability to shine a light on things that some citizens may feel are inconsistent with the promises that America fundamentally makes (or attempts to make) to her populace.
If you, or anyone else, are offended by the kneeling, that's your right, too. That's how freedom works. It isn't convenient and it very rarely results in full agreement on anything.
But if you think that the protests are about the flag itself, then, as I said above, you must think that a peaceful march through the streets can only ever be about mass transit and traffic patterns.
I worked for Ross Perot for almost 20 years, if I had knelt during the National Anthem while in the workplace, my job would have been terminated before the Anthem finished.
2. The reason for the protests are absolutely fine. The method is 100% wrong. Their issue was police brutality. It would be more effective for players in each NFL city to protest in front of a police station on their time off. Then, you are targeting the root of your issue. When you protest the anthem, you are essentially casting a net so wide that you end up making it much worse for your cause and for the NFL.
100%
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we are talking about some of the most famous and rich people in the country who can easily coordinate and get more people involved in actual work within the community. But that isn’t noisy and sexy and it requires time spent while they aren’t getting paid.
There are of course exceptions and a lot of great work being done. But it isn’t enough and the NFL can help with this but they fucked that up too. It’s on both sides, but I do think it should be during “non business hours”. Many paying customers don’t want to see it (right or wrong) and that’s where we are at.
Kaepernick has donated millions. So have a number of other players. It isn't noisy and sexy because the media doesn't blow it up. Accusing them of not doing work in the community because they aren't getting paid is horse shit.
These incredibly rich and visible individuals chose to stand up for their cause when people would notice.
"Many paying customers don't want to see it", well I'm sure Sterling Brown didn't want to get ganged up on for illegally parking.
Without diminishing Kaepernick, he has donated one million (no "s") to charity. Lets not make him Warren Buffet here.
I worked for Ross Perot for almost 20 years, if I had knelt during the National Anthem while in the workplace, my job would have been terminated before the Anthem finished.
Ross Perot played the anthem for employees at the start of every work day? Is that what makes that name drop significant?
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In comment 13975763 UConn4523 said:
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we are talking about some of the most famous and rich people in the country who can easily coordinate and get more people involved in actual work within the community. But that isn’t noisy and sexy and it requires time spent while they aren’t getting paid.
There are of course exceptions and a lot of great work being done. But it isn’t enough and the NFL can help with this but they fucked that up too. It’s on both sides, but I do think it should be during “non business hours”. Many paying customers don’t want to see it (right or wrong) and that’s where we are at.
Kaepernick has donated millions. So have a number of other players. It isn't noisy and sexy because the media doesn't blow it up. Accusing them of not doing work in the community because they aren't getting paid is horse shit.
These incredibly rich and visible individuals chose to stand up for their cause when people would notice.
"Many paying customers don't want to see it", well I'm sure Sterling Brown didn't want to get ganged up on for illegally parking.
Without diminishing Kaepernick, he has donated one million (no "s") to charity. Lets not make him Warren Buffet here.
And check out some of the groups he donated, assatas daugheters named after Cop killer Joann chesimard and various other far left causes including his black panther themed camp for minority children. Guy is a radical anti America cop hater just like his girlfriend who indoctrinated him.