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Here's how I would handle the NFL's new anthem policy...

Milton : 5/25/2018 4:13 pm
If I were Mara and/or Shurmur. On the morning of a game I would put the names of the 46 players to be active that day into a hat and have one of the team captains pick from it. Whatever name is picked, that player gets to decide whether or not the team will remain in the locker room for the anthem or will stand at attention for it on the sideline.

This accomplishes three things:
1) First and foremost being that whatever it is they do, they do as a team.
2) The decision is made by a player (not someone from ownership or management).
3) The choice of player is random (and all inclusive of those who would be standing or sitting that day), so fairness in representation is assured. And given that it is a 16 game season, the sample set should be large enough that all demographic/socio-economic viewpoints are given a say).
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It's not a privilege or a right to play in the NFL.  
bceagle05 : 5/25/2018 10:21 pm : link
Athletes earn their way to the NFL, period.
How come white people  
adambear : 5/25/2018 10:21 pm : link
are never told to stop spending their money on boats and beach houses, rather than their community?

I'll wait.
Here's the thing with the "protest on your own time" line of thinking  
ajr2456 : 5/25/2018 10:29 pm : link
When people take to the streets and march, it's "why don't those bums go to work".

Protests in the streets have a tendency to turn violent, which also angers people.

Players do it in a peaceful, non disruptive way and people are still mad.

So when is the right time to protest?
RE: How come white people  
bigbluehoya : 5/25/2018 10:29 pm : link
In comment 13975736 adambear said:
Quote:
are never told to stop spending their money on boats and beach houses, rather than their community?

I'll wait.


If you’re inferring “BMW” to secretly mean “black person”, you’re not part of a solution.
If you're not aware of a prejudiced stereotype  
adambear : 5/25/2018 10:31 pm : link
that's okay. But we're not talking about white protesters, now are we?
RE: And how am I ignorant?  
Dan_Soprano : 5/25/2018 10:31 pm : link
In comment 13975731 adambear said:
Quote:
Because I understand the difference between working FOR the country and working IN the country?
It has nothing to do with working for the country. I chose my job that requires me to stand, just as these men have. No one forced me into this job just as no one has forced them into their job. It has nothing to do with government vs civilian. My boss tells me to stand or get fired. Now, theirs are telling them to stand or stay in the locker room. If they kneel then they face consequences. Pretty cut and dry, and non racial in my opinion.
Dan  
adambear : 5/25/2018 10:33 pm : link
that is a much more fair point then what you first said.

But to be fair, players did eventually get let go. Kaepernick and Reid got black balled. That's the risk the players took.
RE: To be fair,  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2018 10:39 pm : link
In comment 13975711 adambear said:
Quote:
protest is disruption, that's the whole point.

If the NFL silences the protests (for money reasons), it's their right, but it doesn't mean it *Is* right.

Now, did the NFL play a role in police brutality? No. And to be fair, they're in a tough spot. But by silencing those protests, they've put themselves in the heart of the problem. They *blackballed* the player who started all of this.

Does that mean the protests are working? Sort of. It's shining a light on now a few American problems. Will it lead to change? Probably not. So those who knelt have done a lot for their community. They used their platform to address a problem. Now, we're more alert to the problem at hand. That's not insignificant.


Not quite. They are protesting, and currently being paid to protest, easy right? They aren’t threatening a stoppage over it, why would they? Like I said, too much money on the line for both parties.
RE: Here's the thing with the  
bigbluehoya : 5/25/2018 10:40 pm : link
In comment 13975740 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
When people take to the streets and march, it's "why don't those bums go to work".

Protests in the streets have a tendency to turn violent, which also angers people.

Players do it in a peaceful, non disruptive way and people are still mad.

So when is the right time to protest?


Vast, vast majority of protests in the streets *do not* turn violent. They happen every single day. They’re like airplane flights. They mostly aren’t news. The crashes are news.

One nuance that seems to be lost in the discussions this week — few people are coming out this week and “blaming” the players for anything. The owners took some action this week. In return, there’s been some “outrage” (trite, but whatever you want to call it). And a bunch of people are saying “meh, seems to me the owners are well within their rights to do that”.

One can have that opinion without vilifying the players / being a racist / not believing in free speech. Easily.



RE: How come white people  
BurberryManning : 5/25/2018 10:40 pm : link
In comment 13975736 adambear said:
Quote:
are never told to stop spending their money on boats and beach houses, rather than their community?

I'll wait.

Did you sleep through Occupy Wall Street?
I think a great many players  
BlackLight : 5/25/2018 10:47 pm : link
do a ton for the communities in which they live. How much of a difference it makes, I can't be sure. None of us can. Because it almost never makes the news. Or its a team marketing blip when it does.
And a “protest” isn’t the only way to enact change  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2018 10:48 pm : link
we are talking about some of the most famous and rich people in the country who can easily coordinate and get more people involved in actual work within the community. But that isn’t noisy and sexy and it requires time spent while they aren’t getting paid.

There are of course exceptions and a lot of great work being done. But it isn’t enough and the NFL can help with this but they fucked that up too. It’s on both sides, but I do think it should be during “non business hours”. Many paying customers don’t want to see it (right or wrong) and that’s where we are at.
I would handle it exactly as the Jets have  
Matt M. : 5/25/2018 11:21 pm : link
.
RE: RE: I think all sports need  
81_Great_Dane : 5/25/2018 11:23 pm : link
In comment 13975446 madgiantscow009 said:
Quote:
if a player has to pick, that could go pretty poorly and divide the locker room.

This. I'm sure John Mara realizes that it's important to the Giants' interests to keep the team united. Don't put this choice on the players.
I don't understand a lot of this discussion.  
81_Great_Dane : 5/26/2018 12:04 am : link
The kneeling protest is against police brutality. I don't understand the argument: "Hey rich athlete, stop kneeling against police brutality, that doesn't cost you anything. Go help build your community."

First of all,how does athletes spending their money in economically underdeveloped black areas do anything about police brutality? Seriously, you could turn every depressed black neighborhood in the country into into Wakanda and that wouldn't do a thing about police brutality.

Every black man, regardless of education and economic status, has to be concerned about police brutality. Black people get arrested, or beaten, or tased, or shot, for no particular reason all the time, regardless of how much money they have. Just the news of this past week showed that pretty clearly. "Driving while black" is real. That's why these rich, privileged men are the perfect people to protest police brutality. Their wealth and privilege does not spare them this threat.

And another thing: these athletes come from all different kinds of communities; if you think "their community" is "economically depressed places where poor black people live," you're already stereotyping.
RE: I don't understand a lot of this discussion.  
madgiantscow009 : 5/26/2018 12:40 am : link
In comment 13975798 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
The kneeling protest is against police brutality. I don't understand the argument: "Hey rich athlete, stop kneeling against police brutality, that doesn't cost you anything. Go help build your community."

First of all,how does athletes spending their money in economically underdeveloped black areas do anything about police brutality? Seriously, you could turn every depressed black neighborhood in the country into into Wakanda and that wouldn't do a thing about police brutality.

Every black man, regardless of education and economic status, has to be concerned about police brutality. Black people get arrested, or beaten, or tased, or shot, for no particular reason all the time, regardless of how much money they have. Just the news of this past week showed that pretty clearly. "Driving while black" is real. That's why these rich, privileged men are the perfect people to protest police brutality. Their wealth and privilege does not spare them this threat.

And another thing: these athletes come from all different kinds of communities; if you think "their community" is "economically depressed places where poor black people live," you're already stereotyping.


it's a political discussion on a non political site.

a lot of it does hinge on fake news and identity politics. If this was to be a successful protest it would have to be removed from BLM. Also,the mainstream media is not willing to present these things in an intelligent way.
The NFL is unAmerican  
BurlyMan : 5/26/2018 1:57 am : link
I am so done with this shithole league.
RE: They should all stand - period, a simple business decision  
chopperhatch : 5/26/2018 3:05 am : link
In comment 13975471 stoneman said:
Quote:
If kneeling is reducing audience and revenue 7% by offending some of their audience, then either stand or reduce all salaries 7%. We know which way that vote will go. The Dixie Chicks learned the hard way about mixing politics and business.

There are other ways to protest that does not offend the veterans and flag (and reduce NFL revenues). Just pick one, its not that difficult.


This is really IT...along with the fact that the players are employees and at the very base of it, employees have limited NATURAL rights. There are a lot of things that you have the right to do and are legal in this country that you cant do while at your job. Almost all employers prohibit ddrinking while working. Almost ALL employers dont allow you to carry a gun to work. Almost ALL jobs do not allow for religious practices while working. Almost ALL jobs don't allow you to truly demonstrate your right to freely speak your mind.

If you feel this is intolerable to you, most state laws dictate you go find a new job that is more suiting to your needs. Thats really all there is to it. It's not your company....not your rules.

The anthem has been played before every NFL game since the US got into WW2. In fact, the full participation of the US in that war is what prompted MLB and the NFL to start playing the anthem. So those of you who are saying that the anthem isnt an homage to veterans and that they shouldnt get offended are either lying to yourselves or are ignorant to the history behind the star spangled banner being played before games.

The facts are, the players are employees. The owners are the employers (yes, they are the BOSSES). The bosses dont want the players to upset their customers with an unpopular form of protest. That should be that. If the player(s) dont like that fact enough to justify playing the game, they are free to seek another source of income. If fans respond by not showing up because Colin Kaepernick isnt playing because of this ruling, then the bosses have to decide if their point is worth the drop in revenue. But thats not the way it is...the market is speaking against allowing the protest.

The players have plenty of free time diring the offseason to organize and pursue these demonstrations. 6 minths in fact. But you dont see that happening. And lets not forget the fact that they want to kneel during a tribute to the military in order to protest social injustice. Its just stupid and attention whoring. There is absolutely no justification for their cause in my opinion.

Stand, or you are suspended without pay.
RE: RE: They should all stand - period, a simple business decision  
Joeguido : 5/26/2018 7:43 am : link
In comment 13975819 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 13975471 stoneman said:


Quote:


If kneeling is reducing audience and revenue 7% by offending some of their audience, then either stand or reduce all salaries 7%. We know which way that vote will go. The Dixie Chicks learned the hard way about mixing politics and business.

There are other ways to protest that does not offend the veterans and flag (and reduce NFL revenues). Just pick one, its not that difficult.



This is really IT...along with the fact that the players are employees and at the very base of it, employees have limited NATURAL rights. There are a lot of things that you have the right to do and are legal in this country that you cant do while at your job. Almost all employers prohibit ddrinking while working. Almost ALL employers dont allow you to carry a gun to work. Almost ALL jobs do not allow for religious practices while working. Almost ALL jobs don't allow you to truly demonstrate your right to freely speak your mind.

If you feel this is intolerable to you, most state laws dictate you go find a new job that is more suiting to your needs. Thats really all there is to it. It's not your company....not your rules.

The anthem has been played before every NFL game since the US got into WW2. In fact, the full participation of the US in that war is what prompted MLB and the NFL to start playing the anthem. So those of you who are saying that the anthem isnt an homage to veterans and that they shouldnt get offended are either lying to yourselves or are ignorant to the history behind the star spangled banner being played before games.

The facts are, the players are employees. The owners are the employers (yes, they are the BOSSES). The bosses dont want the players to upset their customers with an unpopular form of protest. That should be that. If the player(s) dont like that fact enough to justify playing the game, they are free to seek another source of income. If fans respond by not showing up because Colin Kaepernick isnt playing because of this ruling, then the bosses have to decide if their point is worth the drop in revenue. But thats not the way it is...the market is speaking against allowing the protest.

The players have plenty of free time diring the offseason to organize and pursue these demonstrations. 6 minths in fact. But you dont see that happening. And lets not forget the fact that they want to kneel during a tribute to the military in order to protest social injustice. Its just stupid and attention whoring. There is absolutely no justification for their cause in my opinion.

Stand, or you are suspended without pay.


I agree with the reduction of salary lost by the kneeling, however I wouldn’t take from the ones that stand but I would reduce the ones kneeling to compensate for the lost revenue. I replied to you chopperhatch to say very well written.
RE: RE: I don't understand a lot of this discussion.  
ajr2456 : 5/26/2018 7:49 am : link
In comment 13975800 madgiantscow009 said:
Quote:
In comment 13975798 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


The kneeling protest is against police brutality. I don't understand the argument: "Hey rich athlete, stop kneeling against police brutality, that doesn't cost you anything. Go help build your community."

First of all,how does athletes spending their money in economically underdeveloped black areas do anything about police brutality? Seriously, you could turn every depressed black neighborhood in the country into into Wakanda and that wouldn't do a thing about police brutality.

Every black man, regardless of education and economic status, has to be concerned about police brutality. Black people get arrested, or beaten, or tased, or shot, for no particular reason all the time, regardless of how much money they have. Just the news of this past week showed that pretty clearly. "Driving while black" is real. That's why these rich, privileged men are the perfect people to protest police brutality. Their wealth and privilege does not spare them this threat.

And another thing: these athletes come from all different kinds of communities; if you think "their community" is "economically depressed places where poor black people live," you're already stereotyping.



it's a political discussion on a non political site.

a lot of it does hinge on fake news and identity politics. If this was to be a successful protest it would have to be removed from BLM. Also,the mainstream media is not willing to present these things in an intelligent way.


Everything in the world is connected to politics in some way. If you want to avoid politics you should probably move to the North Pole.
RE: And a “protest” isn’t the only way to enact change  
ajr2456 : 5/26/2018 7:54 am : link
In comment 13975763 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
we are talking about some of the most famous and rich people in the country who can easily coordinate and get more people involved in actual work within the community. But that isn’t noisy and sexy and it requires time spent while they aren’t getting paid.

There are of course exceptions and a lot of great work being done. But it isn’t enough and the NFL can help with this but they fucked that up too. It’s on both sides, but I do think it should be during “non business hours”. Many paying customers don’t want to see it (right or wrong) and that’s where we are at.


Kaepernick has donated millions. So have a number of other players. It isn't noisy and sexy because the media doesn't blow it up. Accusing them of not doing work in the community because they aren't getting paid is horse shit.

These incredibly rich and visible individuals chose to stand up for their cause when people would notice.

"Many paying customers don't want to see it", well I'm sure Sterling Brown didn't want to get ganged up on for illegally parking.
RE: RE: Fire the son of a bish!  
BigBlueinDE : 5/26/2018 8:08 am : link
In comment 13975465 Sec 103 said:
Quote:
In comment 13975455 Coach Red Beaulieu said:


Quote:


Our grandparents didn't storm the beaches of Normandy so that Kapernick can disrespect our country because he's butthurt he couldn't beat out Blaine Gabbert!


AMEN


+1
yep  
giantfan2000 : 5/26/2018 8:09 am : link
the irony is rich
Trampled, discarded flags at Packers game leave veterans grumbling - ( New Window )
A couple of thoughts on this...  
EricJ : 5/26/2018 8:29 am : link
1. For those who think the anthem is not about the military and that the NFL should stop with that tradition. Here is something that is important to know. Our veterans who are deployed have a strong common interest in the NFL. They are over there watching games in the middle of the night because it is one of the things that ties them back to home. They are watching all of this and it is important for many reasons (foreign to most here) to keep the anthem not disrespect what it means.

2. The reason for the protests are absolutely fine. The method is 100% wrong. Their issue was police brutality. It would be more effective for players in each NFL city to protest in front of a police station on their time off. Then, you are targeting the root of your issue. When you protest the anthem, you are essentially casting a net so wide that you end up making it much worse for your cause and for the NFL.
RE: Fire the son of a bish!  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/26/2018 8:42 am : link
In comment 13975455 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
Our grandparents didn't storm the beaches of Normandy so that Kapernick can disrespect our country because he's butthurt he couldn't beat out Blaine Gabbert!

Just keep beating that Blaine Gabbert drum, troll.
RE: RE: Yes, there would be an outcry over teams staying in the locker room  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/26/2018 8:47 am : link
In comment 13975507 OBJRoyal said:
Quote:
In comment 13975495 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


but it pales in comparison to the outcry if the NFL actually forced players to stand. Right now those who dislike the kneeling are the most vocal - the folks who support the players, or don't care that much, aren't gonna get that riled up about it. If the NFL makes it their official policy that players must stand, that pendulum swings quickly in the other direction.

That's the part the "It's a private business, they can do what they want!" crowd doesn't seem to factor in. Sure, they can do what they want, and league sponsors will be the ones to feel the wrath. There will be a shitstorm of public pressure that will dwarf what's going on right now.



Doesn’t the military pay the NFL to have the flag ceremonies and playing of the anthem, therefore making them a sponsor???

The amount they pay compared to corporate sponsors (like in-stadium pouring rights, for example) is a rounding error for the NFL.
RE: Who is the Authority?  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/26/2018 8:53 am : link
In comment 13975589 G-crew18 said:
Quote:
It is ludicrous that the Anthem policy is an issue. The players forget that they are being paid by the owners of the franchises and the fans who fill the stadiums. Therefore it's their right to instill acceptable policy. Until the players provide their own salary they need to adhere to the rules of their ownership.

How many of poster on this forum can go against your employer's policies and rules? How many can protest at their place at their place of work and keep their job? If such are the guidelines by which we live, why is it acceptable that pampered athletes have such entitlements? If they want to become activists for a specific agenda, they should do so on their own time, not owners or fans dime.

Lost in all of that is why it is logically reasonable to connect a national anthem and flag ceremony to a sporting event being marketed and sold as entertainment. The two things don't have to be connected in the first place.
RE: RE: Here's the thing with the  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/26/2018 8:59 am : link
In comment 13975755 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 13975740 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


When people take to the streets and march, it's "why don't those bums go to work".

Protests in the streets have a tendency to turn violent, which also angers people.

Players do it in a peaceful, non disruptive way and people are still mad.

So when is the right time to protest?



Vast, vast majority of protests in the streets *do not* turn violent. They happen every single day. They’re like airplane flights. They mostly aren’t news. The crashes are news.

One nuance that seems to be lost in the discussions this week — few people are coming out this week and “blaming” the players for anything. The owners took some action this week. In return, there’s been some “outrage” (trite, but whatever you want to call it). And a bunch of people are saying “meh, seems to me the owners are well within their rights to do that”.

One can have that opinion without vilifying the players / being a racist / not believing in free speech. Easily.



Here's the thing that I find interesting. If a group takes to the streets and stages a peaceful march in protest (or support) of a particular issue or cause, it disrupts traffic, but isn't seen as an affront to traffic lights and stop signs. It is seen as a channel by which the protest can happen and be disruptive enough to be noticed (which is the point). The manner in which you protest is not always the thing that you are protesting against.
I never  
charlito : 5/26/2018 9:03 am : link
Stood for the anthem in my house. I'm not patriotic.Oh well.
NFL Decline  
Tark10 : 5/26/2018 9:04 am : link
The employees don't have the right to conduct themselves in a manner that is detrimental to the business. Back in the '70's, Bud Grant would have the players practice there poses during the National Anthem during training camp. If these clowns continue to damage the image of the NFL, the league will continue to lose money and the fans will suffer accordingly. But then again.. My local grocery store could use some more bag boys!
I'm guessing plenty of servicemen and -women of color  
CT Charlie : 5/26/2018 9:34 am : link
deployed overseas appreciated the kneel-down protests.
NFL messed this up...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/26/2018 9:46 am : link
Milton's is reasonable, but the better wish sounds have been for the league to handle this situation with it's broadcast partners in the beginning.

There is no reason for them to be complicit in damaging the league's image. They should be able to get an agreement to not report on these minor protests. Sure, some stories would still surface, but the hysteria would be limited if they could get their partners who create their televised product to agree not to show or discuss such protests during an NFL broadcast.

RE: I think all sports need  
Alex_Webster : 5/26/2018 9:51 am : link
In comment 13975435 Gman11 said:
Quote:
to ask themselves the question of why do they play the anthem at sporting events in the first place. They don't do it for plays, movies or concerts. Why do they do it before this form of entertainment?



I think it has been happening too long to get rid of it. It would end up being a bigger black eye on NFL. They should play it before teams are announced at beginning of game. It has now become a political football. Sadly it has divided people on Anthem instead of bringing people to the original cause. Sad how it has come to this. It had all but gone away until Trump mentioned it at rally. Now it seems to have morphed into something that has no good answer. All people in every category are split on this, doesn't matter race,occupation,military, Non military, Republican, democrat. NFL has always been neutral territory, no sucked into politics. Sucks.
RE: A couple of thoughts on this...  
eclipz928 : 5/26/2018 9:57 am : link
In comment 13975851 EricJ said:
Quote:
1. For those who think the anthem is not about the military and that the NFL should stop with that tradition. Here is something that is important to know. Our veterans who are deployed have a strong common interest in the NFL. They are over there watching games in the middle of the night because it is one of the things that ties them back to home. They are watching all of this and it is important for many reasons (foreign to most here) to keep the anthem not disrespect what it means.

2. The reason for the protests are absolutely fine. The method is 100% wrong. Their issue was police brutality. It would be more effective for players in each NFL city to protest in front of a police station on their time off. Then, you are targeting the root of your issue. When you protest the anthem, you are essentially casting a net so wide that you end up making it much worse for your cause and for the NFL.


1. You're presuming that all people who serve in the military have a monolithic view of this issue. Not all, and likely not even most, veterans view the kneeling as a sign of disrespect.

2. And again, it seems like the message is being lost to those who aren't listening carefully. Protesting in front of a police station would not be effective because the issue of concern is not narrowly the police as an institution - it's systemic.

The resolution that's being called for (an end to police brutality) begins first with public awareness and acceptance, and then a demand for accountability from civilians.
RE: How many workplaces  
santacruzom : 5/26/2018 10:00 am : link
In comment 13975672 capegman said:
Quote:
Start a shift with standing for the National anthem? I dont know of any
Just get rid of the Anthem at sporting events. Problem solved.


Right? Watching football is an escape for me. I want to be able to watch football without having another "We're the greatest most heroic most free country ever!" message shoved down my throat!
RE: NFL Decline  
Reb8thVA : 5/26/2018 10:02 am : link
In comment 13975864 Tark10 said:
Quote:
The employees don't have the right to conduct themselves in a manner that is detrimental to the business. Back in the '70's, Bud Grant would have the players practice there poses during the National Anthem during training camp. If these clowns continue to damage the image of the NFL, the league will continue to lose money and the fans will suffer accordingly. But then again.. My local grocery store could use some more bag boys!


So then you are saying that you are perfectly willing to watch the sub par athletes the owners try to replace the professionals with like the scab games. You guys don’t get it. The NFL and other professional sports are a partnership between the owners and the players they need each other to sustain the $13-14 billion dollar product they have created. It’s not like the usual employer/employee relationships most of us are accustomed to.
One thing about my plan....  
Milton : 5/26/2018 10:06 am : link
With the team either remaining in the locker room as a whole or standing at attention as a whole...and the decision being in the hands of the team, not management...I'm reminded of the scene from The Dirty Dozen in which Franko protests being forced to shave with cold water.

It's not included in the clip linked above, but it follows with the Colonel confiding to the Sergeant...
Quote:
Remember what I was saying last night about 12 rugged individualists? You heard them. It was "we ain't gonna do this and we ain't gonna do that." When I asked them to step forward, even Posey joined. I'll bet you he's been shaving in cold water since he was a kid. Boy, do I love that Franko.

RE: I don't understand a lot of this discussion.  
santacruzom : 5/26/2018 10:13 am : link
In comment 13975798 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
The kneeling protest is against police brutality. I don't understand the argument: "Hey rich athlete, stop kneeling against police brutality, that doesn't cost you anything. Go help build your community."

First of all,how does athletes spending their money in economically underdeveloped black areas do anything about police brutality? Seriously, you could turn every depressed black neighborhood in the country into into Wakanda and that wouldn't do a thing about police brutality.

Every black man, regardless of education and economic status, has to be concerned about police brutality. Black people get arrested, or beaten, or tased, or shot, for no particular reason all the time, regardless of how much money they have. Just the news of this past week showed that pretty clearly. "Driving while black" is real. That's why these rich, privileged men are the perfect people to protest police brutality. Their wealth and privilege does not spare them this threat.

And another thing: these athletes come from all different kinds of communities; if you think "their community" is "economically depressed places where poor black people live," you're already stereotyping.


Very nice and succinct post.

I've been out of the country for a few weeks and am just catching up on the news... this story about the Bucks player who was tased or whatever seems very germane to this discussion.
RE: A couple of thoughts on this...  
Reb8thVA : 5/26/2018 10:31 am : link
In comment 13975851 EricJ said:
Quote:
1. For those who think the anthem is not about the military and that the NFL should stop with that tradition. Here is something that is important to know. Our veterans who are deployed have a strong common interest in the NFL. They are over there watching games in the middle of the night because it is one of the things that ties them back to home. They are watching all of this and it is important for many reasons (foreign to most here) to keep the anthem not disrespect what it means.

2. The reason for the protests are absolutely fine. The method is 100% wrong. Their issue was police brutality. It would be more effective for players in each NFL city to protest in front of a police station on their time off. Then, you are targeting the root of your issue. When you protest the anthem, you are essentially casting a net so wide that you end up making it much worse for your cause and for the NFL.


So you would you agree then that 150 colonist dressing up as native Americans dumping tea belonging to the British East India Company because they opposed taxation without representation was wrong?
RE: UConn  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/26/2018 10:41 am : link
In comment 13975670 adambear said:
Quote:
I agree with much of what you said, but let us not forget that Kaepernick got blackballed from this league, and he's the one who started this. He does a TON for his community. Ingenuity has nothing to do with it.

People are just jealous of athletes because they got wealthy off a talent they could never have. People are usually less jealous of other millionaires because they (wrongfully) believe that that some outcome is achievable for them. So with that in mind, people are unnecessarily hard on athletes. "I couldn't get away with that at my pencil pushing job!!"

Being an NFL athlete is a unique thing and not translatable. And people refuse to grapple with that nuance.

^^ban this troll for spreading misinfo. Snowflake Kapernick did not get blackballed, he is suxor and can't beat out Blake Bortles.
By community  
UConn4523 : 5/26/2018 10:46 am : link
I meant the team as a whole in the respective cities where they play. You know, Chicago, Oakland, Baltimore, New Orleans, etc. That isn’t stereotyping, that’s an entire team working within the communities they represent, many of which are smack dab in some of the most violent places in the country.

Personally I’m fine with the kneeling, doesn’t bother me at all and I sympathize with the cause (although the whole thing is getting pretty ridiculous at this point). But not enough is being done, and that’s on the NFL and the players and the owners.
RE: How come white people  
Beer Man : 5/26/2018 10:47 am : link
In comment 13975736 adambear said:
Quote:
are never told to stop spending their money on boats and beach houses, rather than their community?

I'll wait.

1. White people are the only ones to own boats and beach house? Hmmmm, since when?

2. Regardless of how you want to divide people, how someone spends the money that they earned is no body's f-ing business but their own; that's why.
RE: I'm guessing plenty of servicemen and -women of color  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/26/2018 11:03 am : link
In comment 13975870 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
deployed overseas appreciated the kneel-down protests.

They're not protesting the flag, nor are they protesting the military. They are protesting an issue. An issue that they feel is systemic in this country.

The flag is merely a symbol. The military doesn't defend the flag, they defend our freedom. That freedom includes people who may have opinions that vary across many subjects. That freedom includes the ability to shine a light on things that some citizens may feel are inconsistent with the promises that America fundamentally makes (or attempts to make) to her populace.

If you, or anyone else, are offended by the kneeling, that's your right, too. That's how freedom works. It isn't convenient and it very rarely results in full agreement on anything.

But if you think that the protests are about the flag itself, then, as I said above, you must think that a peaceful march through the streets can only ever be about mass transit and traffic patterns.
White people are on nfl football teams  
UConn4523 : 5/26/2018 11:04 am : link
and those white players should be with their teammates helping in their community as well. Some do, many don’t, which is my point regardless of race. They have an opportunity now to make a difference and from my view, they aren’t capitalizing on it. The nfl should be giving them everything they need to do this.
The NFL is a business  
Beer Man : 5/26/2018 11:06 am : link
And like other businesses they exist to make money. As such they have brands and reputations to maintain, and go to great lengths to protect them. Part of which is staying on the sidelines (pun intended) of controversial issues. What that means for employees of the NFL (including players), is that they check-in their activism activates, protects, etc. at the door, as the workplace is not the place for that. It’s the same for all of us who have jobs. Use your job as a sounding board for any cause, and if it results in some of your customers taking their business elsewhere, I’ll bet you dollar for donuts that you will have a higher survival rate if caught sleeping with the boss’s wife.

I worked for Ross Perot for almost 20 years, if I had knelt during the National Anthem while in the workplace, my job would have been terminated before the Anthem finished.
RE: A couple of thoughts on this...  
chopperhatch : 5/26/2018 11:10 am : link
In comment 13975851 EricJ said:
Quote:
1. For those who think the anthem is not about the military and that the NFL should stop with that tradition. Here is something that is important to know. Our veterans who are deployed have a strong common interest in the NFL. They are over there watching games in the middle of the night because it is one of the things that ties them back to home. They are watching all of this and it is important for many reasons (foreign to most here) to keep the anthem not disrespect what it means.

2. The reason for the protests are absolutely fine. The method is 100% wrong. Their issue was police brutality. It would be more effective for players in each NFL city to protest in front of a police station on their time off. Then, you are targeting the root of your issue. When you protest the anthem, you are essentially casting a net so wide that you end up making it much worse for your cause and for the NFL.



100%
NFL owners have been supportive of the protestors and again are  
giant24 : 5/26/2018 11:11 am : link
Giving 100 million dollars to their social justice causes. The whole racially motivated killings origin was based on lies that mike brown had his hands up and was shot in the back, then lies about Zimmerman and Martin, doctored recordings and photos ultimately disproven in court. With the majority of these cases once all the facts came out there was almost always another side of the story that gave the police cause such as the supposed book was actually a gun or the cop was Asian or Mexican or bLack which the media usually ignore because that went against the racially motivated accusation. Are cops perfect, of course not is anyone? According to statistics the black communities commit the most crimes per capita by a lot therefore a lot more police interaction. These communities need to look inward as to why there is so much crime ithat require so much police involvement instead of blaming the police. The elephant in the room
RE: RE: And a “protest” isn’t the only way to enact change  
chopperhatch : 5/26/2018 11:11 am : link
In comment 13975840 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13975763 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


we are talking about some of the most famous and rich people in the country who can easily coordinate and get more people involved in actual work within the community. But that isn’t noisy and sexy and it requires time spent while they aren’t getting paid.

There are of course exceptions and a lot of great work being done. But it isn’t enough and the NFL can help with this but they fucked that up too. It’s on both sides, but I do think it should be during “non business hours”. Many paying customers don’t want to see it (right or wrong) and that’s where we are at.



Kaepernick has donated millions. So have a number of other players. It isn't noisy and sexy because the media doesn't blow it up. Accusing them of not doing work in the community because they aren't getting paid is horse shit.

These incredibly rich and visible individuals chose to stand up for their cause when people would notice.

"Many paying customers don't want to see it", well I'm sure Sterling Brown didn't want to get ganged up on for illegally parking.


Without diminishing Kaepernick, he has donated one million (no "s") to charity. Lets not make him Warren Buffet here.
RE: The NFL is a business  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/26/2018 11:24 am : link
In comment 13975916 Beer Man said:
Quote:
And like other businesses they exist to make money. As such they have brands and reputations to maintain, and go to great lengths to protect them. Part of which is staying on the sidelines (pun intended) of controversial issues. What that means for employees of the NFL (including players), is that they check-in their activism activates, protects, etc. at the door, as the workplace is not the place for that. It’s the same for all of us who have jobs. Use your job as a sounding board for any cause, and if it results in some of your customers taking their business elsewhere, I’ll bet you dollar for donuts that you will have a higher survival rate if caught sleeping with the boss’s wife.

I worked for Ross Perot for almost 20 years, if I had knelt during the National Anthem while in the workplace, my job would have been terminated before the Anthem finished.

Ross Perot played the anthem for employees at the start of every work day? Is that what makes that name drop significant?
RE: RE: RE: And a “protest” isn’t the only way to enact change  
giant24 : 5/26/2018 11:24 am : link
In comment 13975919 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 13975840 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 13975763 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


we are talking about some of the most famous and rich people in the country who can easily coordinate and get more people involved in actual work within the community. But that isn’t noisy and sexy and it requires time spent while they aren’t getting paid.

There are of course exceptions and a lot of great work being done. But it isn’t enough and the NFL can help with this but they fucked that up too. It’s on both sides, but I do think it should be during “non business hours”. Many paying customers don’t want to see it (right or wrong) and that’s where we are at.



Kaepernick has donated millions. So have a number of other players. It isn't noisy and sexy because the media doesn't blow it up. Accusing them of not doing work in the community because they aren't getting paid is horse shit.

These incredibly rich and visible individuals chose to stand up for their cause when people would notice.

"Many paying customers don't want to see it", well I'm sure Sterling Brown didn't want to get ganged up on for illegally parking.



Without diminishing Kaepernick, he has donated one million (no "s") to charity. Lets not make him Warren Buffet here.


And check out some of the groups he donated, assatas daugheters named after Cop killer Joann chesimard and various other far left causes including his black panther themed camp for minority children. Guy is a radical anti America cop hater just like his girlfriend who indoctrinated him.
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