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| If you don't know his background, Oliver Luck is the father of one of the best quarterbacks of this generation, the Colts' Andrew Luck, but he's also one of the most respected sports executives out there. A quick run through his bio, via the league's release: "Luck served as president of NFL Europe and general manager of the league's Frankfurt Galaxy and Rhein Fire. Most recently Luck was the NCAA's Executive Vice President of Regulatory Affairs and Strategic Partnerships where he oversaw all NCAA regulatory functions including enforcement, academic and membership affairs, and the Eligibility Center." He was also a Rhodes Scholar finalist, the athletic director at West Virginia, the president of Major League Soccer's Houston Dynamo, an Academic All-American quarterback at West Virginia and a second-round pick in the NFL draft, playing five years with the Houston Oilers. |
I think Vince thinks he can draw people just with the slight correlation to the WWE. I can't see it working.
I don't see any reason to think it will be successful, but it should be easier for him to get it to last multiple seasons, which should make him some money but most important placate his own ego that he succeeded this time or something.
I don't see how it can make money. They would have to sell out games and charge a high ticket price to increase the gate.
You might not have certain college rules, but I think they will have an age restriction.
Since the XFL will not have NFL players per sey, there is going to be a hell of allot more of offensive diversity, like you see in the NCAA.
The gimmick stuff from the first league will be gone. Vince and Luck have already said so.
Vince also has his own station that he NEEDS programming for. He will be able to broadcast things there.
For as bad as the XFL was, the NFL sure as hell took a ton of things from it that are still used to this day.
Building a fan base takes time, especially in a product that is going to be inferior.
It is really difficult to be profitable in sports. The WNBA hasn't ever had a profitable year and if it weren't subsidized by the NBA - it would've folded years ago.
Major League Lacrosse struggles and that is with most franchises playing the average player less than $20K per year.
The XFL will have no fan equity to begin with and have to rely on fans to pack stadiums to watch a vastly inferior product. Worse than the CFL level.
It will be a tough go, especially in today's ADD society where you need something compelling to keep people's attention.
This is undoubtedly true for some people. I don't pay much attention to the rest of the league anymore, not to the extent I used to, at least. However, why would that compel me to watch watered-down pro ball? What am I getting from the XFL that I don't already get from college ball in that regard? College football is also a significantly lower quality of football, but it has the traditions and the pageantry and long-standing loyalties. This will have none of that.
Building a fan base takes time, especially in a product that is going to be inferior.
It is really difficult to be profitable in sports. The WNBA hasn't ever had a profitable year and if it weren't subsidized by the NBA - it would've folded years ago.
Major League Lacrosse struggles and that is with most franchises playing the average player less than $20K per year.
The XFL will have no fan equity to begin with and have to rely on fans to pack stadiums to watch a vastly inferior product. Worse than the CFL level.
It will be a tough go, especially in today's ADD society where you need something compelling to keep people's attention.
ON this note... one of the best things I have read about the new league, is that the cost of attendance will be affordable. This undoubtedly will be a huge advantage to the NFL. The cost of going to an NFL game is outrageous now a days. They have priced the normal people out.
That's the dilemma football faces. With the few games each team has it is almost mandatory to fill a stadium. College can do it because of the strong alum base. The NFL can do it because it is the NFL. The XFL will struggle, and cutting prices only means they will have to depend that much more that people will actually go.
That's the dilemma football faces. With the few games each team has it is almost mandatory to fill a stadium. College can do it because of the strong alum base. The NFL can do it because it is the NFL. The XFL will struggle, and cutting prices only means they will have to depend that much more that people will actually go.
He doesn't have the overhead to distribute the product. If he wants to, he can broadcast it on WWE>
Building a fan base takes time, especially in a product that is going to be inferior.
It is really difficult to be profitable in sports. The WNBA hasn't ever had a profitable year and if it weren't subsidized by the NBA - it would've folded years ago.
Major League Lacrosse struggles and that is with most franchises playing the average player less than $20K per year.
The XFL will have no fan equity to begin with and have to rely on fans to pack stadiums to watch a vastly inferior product. Worse than the CFL level.
It will be a tough go, especially in today's ADD society where you need something compelling to keep people's attention.
Football has a huge fanbase and there are new outlets that need programming. What are Netflix, Youtube TV, Hulu, the broadcast networks, ESPN, ESPN+ etc etc etc going to put on for programming? The 10th iteration of CSI? Remakes of remakes? The 75th set of Leave it to Beaver reruns?
NBC screwed up big time when it lost its nerve with the XFL which would have been cheap captive programming. Instead they ponied up big time for the NFL and foisted Collingsworth on us. Bastids.
The biggest threat to a new league will be the NFL and its usual antitrust conspiracy in conjunction with its toadies in the sporting press.
It will have similar fanbases.
It will take time to build fan equity in a franchise, especially in an inferior product. Put it in Topeka if you want, but people simply won't tune in or attend games that are inferior. It has been seen time and again.
NBC pulled the plug on the XFL because the ratings were atrocious. That's why the Arena League isn't even on ESPN anymore. People don't care. And for 10 games or so a year, people really don't care.
So, play in the spring a la the USFL? That was a very organized league with TV contracts and still couldn't make a go of it. A new league lacks tradition, fan investment, etc. It will complete with Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, and all the entertainment programming. Where's the audience? And even if you broadcast it on WWE network, you still need ad revenue. Who is paying for it if no one is watching. You have to commit to years of losses to have a chance.
What do they bring to the table to get fans to watch? The gimmicks of the 1st XFL are what drew fans at first - curiosity. So if they ruled them out, what's the draw?
What I do like, though, is the pressure forces the new league to innovate. I loved the ref cam and more sideline access of the 1st XFL just to hear more of what's said, get new viewpoints. It will lead to things the NFL will try if they're good.
I don't see how it can make money. They would have to sell out games and charge a high ticket price to increase the gate.
The NFL is aware of this. That's why they are careful to spread games around to CBS, NBC, ABC/ESPN and Fox -- there's no major broadcast network hungry for football and eager to get in bad with a new rival to the NFL. That's part of the impetus for Thursday Night Football. They want lots of inventory for primetime football telecasts. MNF 17 games, SNF 17 games, Thanksgiving... not enough to keep all the networks inside the tent.
People may say any new league will deliver an inferior product. However the relative success of games with replacement players gives the XFL hope that they can draw a sufficient audience to support a league, especially in this era of declining broadcast TV ratings.
The bigger issue is: What network is going to put this series on its schedule? The broadcast and cable sports networks seem to be off the table, though I don't know if their contracts forbid them from programming another league. TBS/TNT maybe? Then there are the FAANG web and streaming platforms: Facebook/Apple/Amazon/Netflix/Google (YouTube), plus Hulu and Vudu and so on.
Fox basically put itself on the map as a real network by buying the NFC away from CBS back in the 90s. Any service or network that wants to do the same could be tempted to see if XFL football does it for them. If the XFL has a solid first season and can get to a second, that could happen.
It will have similar fanbases.
It will take time to build fan equity in a franchise, especially in an inferior product. Put it in Topeka if you want, but people simply won't tune in or attend games that are inferior. It has been seen time and again.
NBC pulled the plug on the XFL because the ratings were atrocious. That's why the Arena League isn't even on ESPN anymore. People don't care. And for 10 games or so a year, people really don't care.
Fair point, but I think you are underestimating the good will and loyalty that the NFL had with its fans forever. That has greatly eroded at this point. The time is right for a change to the status quo, but it wont be the XFL, it will be the other league, called AAF which has the backing of all of the ex players and is helmed by dick and charlie ebersol. That has some teeth to it. If you are paying close attention they are slowly just bringing in NFL people to be part of it.
Take NASCAR for example. It has been declining for years, mainly because of a confusing scoring system and the loss of popular drivers. Those fans aren't migrating to Formula One, Indy Car or even the lower NASCAR series. They are simply exiting the sport and watching other things.
I'd imagine when the NFL sees a drop in viewership, it won't be the XFL or any other league picking up the slack. If anything sees an uptick, it will be college football, but I doubt another league takes traction. They will all have the same issues the NFL has now, especially in the area of player safety.
That will just cause a different type of controversy.
The NFL might lose fans because of the anthem issue, but getting them to follow a new league is the challenge.
That will just cause a different type of controversy.
The NFL might lose fans because of the anthem issue, but getting them to follow a new league is the challenge.
They already came out and said they will have to stand and do what you are supposed to do during the Anthem.
I don't see how it gets turned into an advantage.
In the end, I think they'll try to make it a bunch of other nonsense (like the anthem and rules crap), and the product on the field will be crappy enough that it won't get by. If they play seasons that run concurrent to the existing NFL slate, then they're just stupid.
Sundays would start around 11 with the pregame shows. 1pm games. 4pm games. The entire sunday night game as well as the monday night.
We all gathered for the first XFL game, and it felt like you were watching the preseason. Just not good football.
If it is the same level of play, it's doomed.
Sundays would start around 11 with the pregame shows. 1pm games. 4pm games. The entire sunday night game as well as the monday night.
We all gathered for the first XFL game, and it felt like you were watching the preseason. Just not good football.
If it is the same level of play, it's doomed.
I think they 100% understand that. Thus why they are putting a real football guy in charge.
To compensate, they tried to market other aspects (hard hits, different rules), but at the end of the day their players weren't as good, and neither was the product.
That's what made the USFL unique - they went out and grabbed some top tier talent. The NFL certainly had the advantage, but the gap wasn't as close as it has been with these other leagues.
Still - I would imagine if they grabbed guys who narrowly missed the NFL cut, trained them with NFL caliber coaches (who they could find and hire), and stuck to a menu of actual football instead of gimmicks, you'd think the resulting product would be watchable.
The point does still stand that D-level players are D-level, so the quality is going to below standard no matter what.
Yep, thats the opening right there. The NCAA is a joke.
You learn from your mistakes;this time they'll have more steak and less sizzle.
The AFL caught on because the 60s brought a new era of fan, and more open to the league's wide-open offensive style; maybe the market research revealed a new/different fan or product that makes it worth trying a new league again.
That said, I don’t think the issue is - necessarily- level of player skill. NCAA has worse players but still good football. As the NFL likes to say, they sell competition. But to care about the competition, you have to have investment. What’s my investment in an XFL team? It’s not what my dad raised me to cheer for, it’s not where I went to school, there’s no age old rivalry...what draws the viewers to care?
I never heard anyone else ever say "18 year olds" and "decent pro football product" in the same sentence. Congrats. If the XFL is full of high school level football players then Vince just wasted a huge amount of money again. He should just stick to large men fake fighting with each other.
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of games each year, less affordable tickets will actually make it even more difficult for the league to survive.
That's the dilemma football faces. With the few games each team has it is almost mandatory to fill a stadium. College can do it because of the strong alum base. The NFL can do it because it is the NFL. The XFL will struggle, and cutting prices only means they will have to depend that much more that people will actually go.
He doesn't have the overhead to distribute the product. If he wants to, he can broadcast it on WWE>
If their plan is to take 18 year olds, they are more in competition with the NCAA instead of the NFL in terms of talent pool. Then they are competing with another new league with some NFL ties and a desire to feed the NFL. So, the XFL is likely getting 3rd tier talent.
If their plan is to take 18 year olds, they are more in competition with the NCAA instead of the NFL in terms of talent pool. Then they are competing with another new league with some NFL ties and a desire to feed the NFL. So, the XFL is likely getting 3rd tier talent.
If their plan is to take 18 year olds, they are more in competition with the NCAA instead of the NFL in terms of talent pool. Then they are competing with another new league with some NFL ties and a desire to feed the NFL. So, the XFL is likely getting 3rd tier talent.
Then he goes out and purchases the other minor leagues and puts them out of business.
Definitely not the scramble instead of a coin toss where they had a separated shoulder (week 1?)
the quality of play of the XFL is what doomed it, if anyone remembers and in the end this too is what will make or break the new XFL. Quality of play.
If the USFL couldn't survive with legit NFL quality talent (at least sprinkled around the league) the XFL faces long odds.
BigBlueDownTheShore : 8:42 am : link : reply
Exactly what he did in the Wrestling World. There are a ton of football minor leagues around the country.
The "minor leagues" across the country are basically pickup games attended by a few hundred people. They aren't feeder systems - they are basically adult league with horrifically poor play.
It is like saying a rival league to MLB could take advantage of the NABA and other adult baseball leagues out there to make a run.
There is no viable minor league football in the US.
Plus, the USFL didn't have options as far as distribution. Broadcast networks were beholden to the NFL.
I don't see this being successful, but they do have a chance. The question is, do they try to build a real league based on fundamentals and talent, or are they going to shoot for a gimmick based quick hit? Hearing their marketing materials prominently mention the anthem issue leads me to believe they're not really thinking long term.