Pugh 'humbled' by free agency; no call from Giants

in between what the best and worst BBI opinions of him were.

He's definitely a bit chatty overall (though I'm not sure this is an example). He was a good player - solid, if unspectacular, who was surrounded by a lot of crap and had too many injuries. Had either one of those elements been slightly different, we might think better of Pugh here.

Then again, he's an Eagles fan, so fuck him.

and will continue to miss time.

And I acknowledge that Diehl should have been canned about 3 years before he retired. But in the toughness department? Pugh is a micropenis by comparison.

In comment 13984758 Stu11 said:

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has been a real humbling experience for us Giants fans...

Lmao..well played sir...

* NOT a #1 pick type

* Yes, he was mis-cast; was put at RT (where he failed)

* Was then moved to LG (where he was just adequate)

* NO he is not just as good as Norwell

* Yes, injuries affected his career

He thinks he's elite, he's not. He just needs to be grateful he has a job.

In comment 13984864 widmerseyebrow said:

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And I acknowledge that Diehl should have been canned about 3 years before he retired. But in the toughness department? Pugh is a micropenis by comparison.

This isn't entirely accurate. Pugh was a much better guard than Diehl but Diehl was the better OT. People seem to believe that Diehl was a very good guard but the truth is that he struggled at G.

if he were he wouldn't have claimed that he was better than Norwell as Norwell was an all-pro and he received a much bigger contract.

for pulling the thread back on the rails. Fact is, Pugh would have been regarded as an excellent pick - not an outstanding player but an excellent pick - if he could have continued making 14-15 starts a year.

In comment 13984863 mrvax said:

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and will continue to miss time.

It's not his fault! We moved him around too much on the OL. Get off his jock!!!

;-/

In comment 13984882 Manny in CA said:

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* NOT a #1 pick type * Yes, he was mis-cast; was put at RT (where he failed) * Was then moved to LG (where he was just adequate) * NO he is not just as good as Norwell * Yes, injuries affected his career He thinks he's elite, he's not. He just needs to be grateful he has a job.

After playing for a player- friendly organization, then not getting a call from them in FA, and not being signed as quickly as your ego expected, SHOULD make you humble.
Just don't get hurt, Justin. Cardinals are not nearly as player friendly.

In comment 13984807 Milton said:

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...was that Norwell was more of a run blocker and he was more of a pass blocker, and it's a league that generally values pass-protection over run-blocking. Compared to the linemen taking ahead of him in the 2013 draft, Pugh was an absolute steal for the Giants. Whatever position they asked him to play, he played at it at a starting quality level. If they had stuck him at left tackle as a rookie and left him there, he would've played the position better than anyone the Giants had there for the past five years. He would've been a Dave Diehl type of left tackle, not great, but good enough to win. The only problem with Pugh were the injuries. You could rely on his talent, but not his health. Which is a huge problem, but not one we should be badmouthing him over. He's a guy who did everything the Giants asked of him. And he has the right to believe in himself. If he believes he's every bit as valuable to a team as Norwell, isn't that what you want him to believe? This is a far cry from Bobby Hart saying he's the best right tackle in football. With better luck in the injury department going forward, who is to say it won't prove to be the case? Time will tell. p.s.--I get the hate for McAdoo on BBI. I didn't like him from the get-go, even during times when the offense was working and the team was winning. He was a poser, hiding behind a gruff expression and every cliche in the book of football cliches. But Reese and Pugh get entirely too much undeserved bashing on BBI. Reese was--at worst--a competent GM (if I were assigning him a letter grade, I would give him a "B"). And Pugh's only sin was missing too much time to injury.

Agree. What's he supposed to do, refuse an ESPN interview? And the fact that he doesn't recognize the how his value is affected by injuries doesn't make him unique.

Guess he *was* aiming high.

“It started to worry me when it was going on because I was like, ‘Norwell signed. I think I’m as good if not better than him. He’s a run blocker.’

Maybe if Pugh was a better run blocker he would still be here. He also passed up on one year deals with contenders to "cash in". Makes it sound like he was all about the money (I get it but he seems to be soooo obvious). I thought he was part of the solution, but the more he talks, the more he sounds like part of the problem.

In comment 13984967 Reale01 said:

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“It started to worry me when it was going on because I was like, ‘Norwell signed. I think I’m as good if not better than him. He’s a run blocker.’ Maybe if Pugh was a better run blocker he would still be here. He also passed up on one year deals with contenders to "cash in". Makes it sound like he was all about the money (I get it but he seems to be soooo obvious). I thought he was part of the solution, but the more he talks, the more he sounds like part of the problem.

He was a pretty selfless player as a Giant. He probably has more value since he plays both guard and tackle. We should have never moved him from tackle, he was great there. If he was healthy the entire time his versatility would have netted him more, but he was always injured so...

Diehl was a far superior team player than Pugh as he was part of a unit that played exceptionally well together and always had Eli's back. Pugh played with five guys who couldn't protect the qb for shit. There were never any me first guys on that unit compared to Pughs group

But the guy is so fucking annoying with his media presence.

a very good player when healthy. I think teams were scared off by his injury issues. Back problems persist in big people and most offensive linemen are carrying more weight than they normally would in regular life which can make it even worse. I met him in person once and he was super nice to my wife and I so will still root for him.

In comment 13984900 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 13984864 widmerseyebrow said: Quote: And I acknowledge that Diehl should have been canned about 3 years before he retired. But in the toughness department? Pugh is a micropenis by comparison. This isn't entirely accurate. Pugh was a much better guard than Diehl but Diehl was the better OT. People seem to believe that Diehl was a very good guard but the truth is that he struggled at G.

Much better as an offensive lineman in general. Peak Diehl was better than peak Pugh. Even as a guard I'd say it's debatable.

Hope he does well

No one here before had any allegiance to him either as there was no attempt to resign him before the staff was let go.

He knew he was going somewhere else and I'd bet he was less than willing to stick it out at RT in a lost season once they decided he and Fluker on the right side was the best configuration.

In comment 13984986 adamg said:

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But the guy is so fucking annoying with his media presence.

He's better, but only if he is able to play...

In comment 13984961 OntheRoad said:

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Guess he *was* aiming high.

ding ding

$15million guaranteed as well.

injuries continue now that he has gotten a second contract.

In comment 13984825 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 13984756 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: My God. He loves the sound of his own voice. He was asked a question and he gave a thoughtful and perfectly fine response. Do fans ever shut up?

You're right. I get that the media is asking him ?s & he has to respond. I'm just sick of hearing from Pugh about his time here. He was average to above average when on the field. He wasn't an Anthony Munoz or someone who we're going to rue the day he left.

In comment 13985057 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 13984825 UConn4523 said: Quote: In comment 13984756 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: My God. He loves the sound of his own voice. He was asked a question and he gave a thoughtful and perfectly fine response. Do fans ever shut up? You're right. I get that the media is asking him ?s & he has to respond. I'm just sick of hearing from Pugh about his time here. He was average to above average when on the field. He wasn't an Anthony Munoz or someone who we're going to rue the day he left.

If your sick of it, then why click on the thread. The guy played through injuries and did what he could for this team. Be great full and move on

criticize the man. Is that not allowed?

then you are completely nuts. Dave Diehl is a fifth round pick, two time champion, that could play any position including left tackle.

Pugh is a 1st round, often injured, player that didn't make a second contract and cried that having to play another position was the reason he got injured.

Pugh can't hold Dave Diehl's jock and that's a fact.

No way the Giants would pay that for a guy who can't stay on the field....

In comment 13985070 Britt in VA said:

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then you are completely nuts. Dave Diehl is a fifth round pick, two time champion, that could play any position including left tackle. Pugh is a 1st round, often injured, player that didn't make a second contract and cried that having to play another position was the reason he got injured. Pugh can't hold Dave Diehl's jock and that's a fact.

Ding ding ding.

In comment 13985070 Britt in VA said:

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then you are completely nuts. Dave Diehl is a fifth round pick, two time champion, that could play any position including left tackle. Pugh is a 1st round, often injured, player that didn't make a second contract and cried that having to play another position was the reason he got injured. Pugh can't hold Dave Diehl's jock and that's a fact.

A better comparison for Pugh's Giant tenure is Luke Petitgout.

AND IS INJURY PRONE, and could not sniff David Diehls jock.

In comment 13985085 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 13985070 Britt in VA said: Quote: then you are completely nuts. Dave Diehl is a fifth round pick, two time champion, that could play any position including left tackle. Pugh is a 1st round, often injured, player that didn't make a second contract and cried that having to play another position was the reason he got injured. Pugh can't hold Dave Diehl's jock and that's a fact. Ding ding ding.

Not to mention that Dave Diehl played on a line that had like five or six straight seasons without any player missing a start. I think it was some kind of record.

Not to mention racking up thousands of rushing yards during that time with multiple rushers (Tiki, Bradshaw, Jacobs, and Ward).

Give me a fucking break with that Justin Pugh was better than Dave Diehl shit.

With his answer to the question. He was definitely a disappointment given when he was picked.

Guys with an elevated sense of self and with a lack of self-awareness in my experience aren't the most accountable or reliable people and are difficult to trust when things get hard.

Britt nailed it. A guy who blaims the staff because they asked him to play another position and some how caused him to get hurt isn't part of the solution.

That group was a mess and as the vet and the leader Pugh sure didn't seem to be helping anything.

wish him the best.

His issue was availability. He wasn't available.

As for Diehl, this guy is a prototypical lunch pail team first guy. Gave everything he had and competed very hard. The dude started his rookie year bad played 4 different positions along the line. He has 2 Super Bowl rings and I am pretty sure he was a participant in the Pro Bowl ( the game sucks but not the honor ). Diehl was a great Giant.

In comment 13984807 Milton said:

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Compared to the linemen taking ahead of him in the 2013 draft, Pugh was an absolute steal for the Giants.

You've got to be kidding me. Kyle Long with the very next pick is 10 times the player that Pugh is. Plus he is more effectively versatile than Pugh.

A steal? More like a whiff.

He was slightly above average when healthy. The same reason the Giants rid themselves of Luke Petitgout and the Jets Clady

In comment 13985209 sb from NYT Forum said:

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In comment 13984807 Milton said: Quote: Compared to the linemen taking ahead of him in the 2013 draft, Pugh was an absolute steal for the Giants. You've got to be kidding me. Kyle Long with the very next pick is 10 times the player that Pugh is. Plus he is more effectively versatile than Pugh. A steal? More like a whiff.

Kyle Long has missed a lot of games the past 2 seasons and it's debatable if he's any better than Pugh.

In comment 13985173 Rjanyg said:

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His issue was availability. He wasn't available. As for Diehl, this guy is a prototypical lunch pail team first guy. Gave everything he had and competed very hard. The dude started his rookie year bad played 4 different positions along the line. He has 2 Super Bowl rings and I am pretty sure he was a participant in the Pro Bowl ( the game sucks but not the honor ). Diehl was a great Giant.

He was also a 2nd team All Pro in 2008 (at left tackle).

Two guys who had flashes of very good play, who were oft injured and outspoken (not in a good way) while here, go off into FA and make a boatload for themselves.

Will it turn out that they do well elsewhere and underperformed here? Will they flounder in their new teams and just show how difficult it is to acquire OL help in FA? Will those injury situations resolve themselves, pointing to possible milking of injury status while with the Giants?

We spend a lot of time talking about the Giants who didn't continue after they left NY, but it seems these two (and to a lesser extent, Hankins) don't get a lot of attention.

They wanted big bucks and got it (very over paid). They can not stay healthy and neither can run block very well. I did want to keep Pugh, but for 3-4m per on a 2 year deal. I think he is a much better RT than Flowers. But the Giants made the right call, the line needed a massive overhaul and they were easy calls to make, no contracts, start over.

In comment 13985261 mrvax said:

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Kyle Long has missed a lot of games the past 2 seasons and it's debatable if he's any better than Pugh.

I don't think it's debatable at all. When healthy Long has clearly outplayed Pugh at both tackle AND guard. And he's been more effective when playing hurt.

there is really nothing to call Justin Pugh other than a bust.

He didn't make a difference on a crappy line, he was hurt, he wasn't a leader, and they didn't even offer him a second contract.

It's not that they couldn't come to an agreement on money in negotiating, they didn't even offer. That tells you all you need to know right there.

Kyle Long has played 64 games and Pugh has played 63. Long is a better OG. His 1 year at RT he allowed 6 sacks & 28 QB hurries - is that good

Long had surgery on his neck - not good for anyone, let alone an OL. Pugh has back issues, not good for anyone let alone an OL.

Pugh's issue was always health. You need to be out there - he was a good player when out there, but he was not there enough. Some guys can manage to play well when not 100%. I think it was safe to say Pugh was not 1 of them

Ditto

it was the missed games of which there was alot around a third of each year the last couple of years and played hurt in alot of others the second contract on OL is high from a cap standpoint you are probably better going out and drafting another OL then resigning one of your own

even oft injured pugh got a 45 mil contract whereas hernandez will make a fraction of that over the same length of contract and is younger and in much better health,looks to be a meaner harder blocker as well the giants needed to inject a bit of steel into that inciped OL

diehl was a fifth round pick who won two superbowls and was a probowler if thats over valued i wish they could find more like that every draft

In comment 13984836 lono801 said:

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That’s a joke right?

thats an insane comment to say Pugh was better than Diehl.. based on where he was picked, he should have been MUCH better, but we got far more out of Diehl for a far lower pick

In comment 13984777 Mr. Bungle said:

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“It started to worry me when it was going on because I was like, ‘Norwell signed. I think I’m as good if not better than him. He’s a run blocker.’ So once I knew New York was out of the question -- I didn’t even talk to New York -- once I knew it wasn’t going to happen I was like, 'Norwell, go to New York so every other guard team is out there.'" He's nuts.

He's deluded, completely deluded

I have always liked Pugh, as mentioned numerous times: He did everything he was asked and never complained. Giants simply didn't have the luxury to re-sign Pugh.