In short, New York has a chance to emulate Philly's worst-to-first run from last year -- especially if the Giants can master the Eagles in their head-to-head matches this season.
So just that one little thing they haven't been able to do for a decade.
In short, New York has a chance to emulate Philly's worst-to-first run from last year -- especially if the Giants can master the Eagles in their head-to-head matches this season.
So just that one little thing they haven't been able to do for a decade.
Or the Rams. Or Jax. Or many others through the years of parity
LC needs to come back strong, Jenkins needs to stay healthy all year and Apple needs to progress. Add all that and the need for young cb to emerge to challenge Gay at the nickle spot and thats alot to ask for.
But the truth is, with this much change there is no way to project with confidence. We have huge roster turnover, changes in coaching, scheme, etc. There is no way to predict how this will all come together and how the pieces will fit. What if Odell lost a step following injury, Barkely falls shy of the hype, Eli looks the same as the past two years, the Oline struggles continue, and we have the normal injury bug but to key positions on D. Do we love things then? Are any of these really that unlikely?
I should pull up comments from prior offseasons. Things like: best WR corp. ever, Eli will win MVP, defense will dominate, SB or bust/bank it, kind of hype that never materialized. There is a credibility issue here. This new group needs to establish it, and that's not going to come from post practice interviews. When they do, I'll give the team the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not blind to what I know verses what is speculation. What I know is that despite good reason for optimism, the reality is a boat load of unknowns and I'm not going to pretend to have a crystal ball.
But the truth is, with this much change there is no way to project with confidence. We have huge roster turnover, changes in coaching, scheme, etc. There is no way to predict how this will all come together and how the pieces will fit. What if Odell lost a step following injury, Barkely falls shy of the hype, Eli looks the same as the past two years, the Oline struggles continue, and we have the normal injury bug but to key positions on D. Do we love things then? Are any of these really that unlikely?
I should pull up comments from prior offseasons. Things like: best WR corp. ever, Eli will win MVP, defense will dominate, SB or bust/bank it, kind of hype that never materialized. There is a credibility issue here. This new group needs to establish it, and that's not going to come from post practice interviews. When they do, I'll give the team the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not blind to what I know verses what is speculation. What I know is that despite good reason for optimism, the reality is a boat load of unknowns and I'm not going to pretend to have a crystal ball.
Of course. Your second paragraph is generally fan hyperbole. The ‘what ifs’ in the first paragraph are what ALL fans of every team have to face (save for a Belichick run team, I guess) before the season begins in earnest
But the truth is, with this much change there is no way to project with confidence. We have huge roster turnover, changes in coaching, scheme, etc. There is no way to predict how this will all come together and how the pieces will fit. What if Odell lost a step following injury, Barkely falls shy of the hype, Eli looks the same as the past two years, the Oline struggles continue, and we have the normal injury bug but to key positions on D. Do we love things then? Are any of these really that unlikely?
I should pull up comments from prior offseasons. Things like: best WR corp. ever, Eli will win MVP, defense will dominate, SB or bust/bank it, kind of hype that never materialized. There is a credibility issue here. This new group needs to establish it, and that's not going to come from post practice interviews. When they do, I'll give the team the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not blind to what I know verses what is speculation. What I know is that despite good reason for optimism, the reality is a boat load of unknowns and I'm not going to pretend to have a crystal ball.
After last year's mini-camp, I told my wife that the best defensive secondary in the NFL was competing every day with the best WR group in the NFL in Giants camp - and that each squad practicing against each other was just going to make them increasingly better.
Oh my... how fun the months of May and June can be for silly football fantasies.
Who in the NFL has depth at CB - does any team. most teams don't have enough NFL caliber starters, let alone depth.
If you have 2 very good WR's and stay healthy, you can manufacture WR depth. You only need a reasonable 3rd WR
health, health, health
They right now don't have an NFL quality corner though. Most teams have that.
I'm hoping Eli Apple blossoms; Jenkins stays healthy and dominates again; and, if we do get supplemental draft pick Beal that he can play well as a rookie. All big "who knows???" - but all teams have holes.
LC needs to come back strong, Jenkins needs to stay healthy all year and Apple needs to progress. Add all that and the need for young cb to emerge to challenge Gay at the nickle spot and thats alot to ask for.
We also need someone to step up as a legitimate FS.
Pat Kirwin and Jim Miller asked fans if their teams had 4 elite players on their defense. This would be indicative of a fairly decent Defense, in their opinion. They came to the conclusion that the Giants did not, but I think it's fairly close. I have Snacks, Jenkins, and Collins as elite and then I'd possibly add Ogletree, but I don't think they feel he's elite....good, but not elite. With that said, this defense, on paper, looks fairly good on the surface. I'm thinking Bettcher can at least make this Defense average, which should be good enough to keep us in most games.
On Offense, if the Oline holds it's own, I think the sky's the limit. Again depth is a concern.
On Specials, KR and PR are ?s and Kicker IMO.
Overall a decent roster. Is it better then Philly, Dallas or Washington?
Pencil in some injuries though, and the depth doesn't look that great.
I’m not seeing greatness of defense. There are individual great players in Snacks and Collins, but the Giants have one pass rusher and one CB.
Agree, no greatness but some of you way underestimate what some of these guys project to. I don't see why not our secondary cannot be better than last yr and certainly our pass rush will be much improved. What did we draft Carter? I am sure Bettcher will turn him into a PS specialist, our new tackles will also assist with a better collapse of the pocket. I think there are several reasons why Bettch's DEF has been top 10 over the last few years. Should we now think he is going to drop out of the top 10 because he changed zip codes.
can they control the LOS ... if yes, we're good and if no, we're sub 500.
So true.
I think the DL can control the line of scrimmage with Snacks/Tomlinson/Hill and the reserves are sturdy against the run. The pass rush is what scares me but Bettcher's MO is supposed to be manufacturing the pass rush with his blitzes which should play to Olgetree's strengths on the blitz side but I'm starting to believe the key to this defense being above average to very good is Vernon. He needs to have a huge year with hopefully Carter coming on as the year goes on.
Best NFL talent but he did not mention one defensive player not a single one. Our hopes rest on a declining and very inconsistent QB and the belief that OBJ will be the same player prior to his injury. He also must not have paid much attention to our early season schedule.
Martin and Carter can probably provide some pass rush too. If Apple has a resurgence then between him and Jenkins they are solid at starting corner. Having a functional offense would also help the defense. Again, this is all on paper. The depth is shit.
can they control the LOS ... if yes, we're good and if no, we're sub 500.
So true.
I think the DL can control the line of scrimmage with Snacks/Tomlinson/Hill and the reserves are sturdy against the run. The pass rush is what scares me but Bettcher's MO is supposed to be manufacturing the pass rush with his blitzes which should play to Olgetree's strengths on the blitz side but I'm starting to believe the key to this defense being above average to very good is Vernon. He needs to have a huge year with hopefully Carter coming on as the year goes on.
I should've said front seven, it's the OLBs and generating edge rush pressure I'm concerned about. They've got to wreak enough havoc up front to take the heat off the back end until they develop some talent.
RE: RE: There are clearly things to be optimistic/excited about Â
But the truth is, with this much change there is no way to project with confidence. We have huge roster turnover, changes in coaching, scheme, etc. There is no way to predict how this will all come together and how the pieces will fit. What if Odell lost a step following injury, Barkely falls shy of the hype, Eli looks the same as the past two years, the Oline struggles continue, and we have the normal injury bug but to key positions on D. Do we love things then? Are any of these really that unlikely?
I should pull up comments from prior offseasons. Things like: best WR corp. ever, Eli will win MVP, defense will dominate, SB or bust/bank it, kind of hype that never materialized. There is a credibility issue here. This new group needs to establish it, and that's not going to come from post practice interviews. When they do, I'll give the team the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not blind to what I know verses what is speculation. What I know is that despite good reason for optimism, the reality is a boat load of unknowns and I'm not going to pretend to have a crystal ball.
Of course. Your second paragraph is generally fan hyperbole. The ‘what ifs’ in the first paragraph are what ALL fans of every team have to face (save for a Belichick run team, I guess) before the season begins in earnest
'56, perhaps to a degree, but most teams are not facing nearly the degree of changes we are. Philly has I think like one starter not returning. Contrast this with NYG with massive roster turnover new coaching staff and schemes on both sides of the ball. Even many known pieces on D, it remains to be seen the level of fit in new scheme.
RE: RE: There are clearly things to be optimistic/excited about Â
But the truth is, with this much change there is no way to project with confidence. We have huge roster turnover, changes in coaching, scheme, etc. There is no way to predict how this will all come together and how the pieces will fit. What if Odell lost a step following injury, Barkely falls shy of the hype, Eli looks the same as the past two years, the Oline struggles continue, and we have the normal injury bug but to key positions on D. Do we love things then? Are any of these really that unlikely?
I should pull up comments from prior offseasons. Things like: best WR corp. ever, Eli will win MVP, defense will dominate, SB or bust/bank it, kind of hype that never materialized. There is a credibility issue here. This new group needs to establish it, and that's not going to come from post practice interviews. When they do, I'll give the team the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not blind to what I know verses what is speculation. What I know is that despite good reason for optimism, the reality is a boat load of unknowns and I'm not going to pretend to have a crystal ball.
After last year's mini-camp, I told my wife that the best defensive secondary in the NFL was competing every day with the best WR group in the NFL in Giants camp - and that each squad practicing against each other was just going to make them increasingly better.
Oh my... how fun the months of May and June can be for silly football fantasies.
true, but i kinda feel they’re on the brink of being really good..especially after turning their season around last year after such a poor start. I can totally see them winning the West outright.
Pencil in some injuries though, and the depth doesn't look that great.
I’m not seeing greatness of defense. There are individual great players in Snacks and Collins, but the Giants have one pass rusher and one CB.
Disagree as DL strength will make it easier on CBs.
The only way he front 7 (not DL) helps the CBs is if they get to the QB. The front 7 has too much unproven talent for me to say they are going to make the CB’s lives easier. It could happen, but it’s far from certain.
Pencil in some injuries though, and the depth doesn't look that great.
I’m not seeing greatness of defense. There are individual great players in Snacks and Collins, but the Giants have one pass rusher and one CB.
Disagree as DL strength will make it easier on CBs.
The only way he front 7 (not DL) helps the CBs is if they get to the QB. The front 7 has too much unproven talent for me to say they are going to make the CB’s lives easier. It could happen, but it’s far from certain.
I agree: where does the consistent pass rush come from? I do believe Olivier Vernon will have a BIG year but he is ONE guy and you can stop one guy with a decent OL and chipping and such.
Ogletree, L. Collins, Martin and maybe rookie Carter can bring some heat but none are superstar rushers by any means.
The BEST thing that can happen is for the rookies to play over their "pay grade" and produce as rookies. I mean, if Hill, Carter can make big leaps and generate pass rush this team is pretty solid. But until I see it, this team will be "middle of the pack defensively".
So just that one little thing they haven't been able to do for a decade.
So just that one little thing they haven't been able to do for a decade.
Or the Rams. Or Jax. Or many others through the years of parity
LC needs to come back strong, Jenkins needs to stay healthy all year and Apple needs to progress. Add all that and the need for young cb to emerge to challenge Gay at the nickle spot and thats alot to ask for.
I should pull up comments from prior offseasons. Things like: best WR corp. ever, Eli will win MVP, defense will dominate, SB or bust/bank it, kind of hype that never materialized. There is a credibility issue here. This new group needs to establish it, and that's not going to come from post practice interviews. When they do, I'll give the team the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not blind to what I know verses what is speculation. What I know is that despite good reason for optimism, the reality is a boat load of unknowns and I'm not going to pretend to have a crystal ball.
I’m not seeing greatness of defense. There are individual great players in Snacks and Collins, but the Giants have one pass rusher and one CB.
I should pull up comments from prior offseasons. Things like: best WR corp. ever, Eli will win MVP, defense will dominate, SB or bust/bank it, kind of hype that never materialized. There is a credibility issue here. This new group needs to establish it, and that's not going to come from post practice interviews. When they do, I'll give the team the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not blind to what I know verses what is speculation. What I know is that despite good reason for optimism, the reality is a boat load of unknowns and I'm not going to pretend to have a crystal ball.
Of course. Your second paragraph is generally fan hyperbole. The ‘what ifs’ in the first paragraph are what ALL fans of every team have to face (save for a Belichick run team, I guess) before the season begins in earnest
I should pull up comments from prior offseasons. Things like: best WR corp. ever, Eli will win MVP, defense will dominate, SB or bust/bank it, kind of hype that never materialized. There is a credibility issue here. This new group needs to establish it, and that's not going to come from post practice interviews. When they do, I'll give the team the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not blind to what I know verses what is speculation. What I know is that despite good reason for optimism, the reality is a boat load of unknowns and I'm not going to pretend to have a crystal ball.
After last year's mini-camp, I told my wife that the best defensive secondary in the NFL was competing every day with the best WR group in the NFL in Giants camp - and that each squad practicing against each other was just going to make them increasingly better.
Oh my... how fun the months of May and June can be for silly football fantasies.
If you have 2 very good WR's and stay healthy, you can manufacture WR depth. You only need a reasonable 3rd WR
health, health, health
If you have 2 very good WR's and stay healthy, you can manufacture WR depth. You only need a reasonable 3rd WR
health, health, health
They right now don't have an NFL quality corner though. Most teams have that.
Quote:
Who in the NFL has depth at CB - does any team. most teams don't have enough NFL caliber starters, let alone depth.
If you have 2 very good WR's and stay healthy, you can manufacture WR depth. You only need a reasonable 3rd WR
health, health, health
They right now don't have an NFL quality corner though. Most teams have that.
Jenkins is not quality?
Quote:
Pencil in some injuries though, and the depth doesn't look that great.
I’m not seeing greatness of defense. There are individual great players in Snacks and Collins, but the Giants have one pass rusher and one CB.
Disagree as DL strength will make it easier on CBs.
Quote:
Who in the NFL has depth at CB - does any team. most teams don't have enough NFL caliber starters, let alone depth.
If you have 2 very good WR's and stay healthy, you can manufacture WR depth. You only need a reasonable 3rd WR
health, health, health
They right now don't have an NFL quality corner though. Most teams have that.
They're a decent team but they sure as hell aren't 6th in the league
Quote:
Chargers are a veery good team.
They're a decent team but they sure as hell aren't 6th in the league
The Chargers could very well be a Super Bowl team. They are stacked on D. They just need to stop with all of the injuries.
LC needs to come back strong, Jenkins needs to stay healthy all year and Apple needs to progress. Add all that and the need for young cb to emerge to challenge Gay at the nickle spot and thats alot to ask for.
We also need someone to step up as a legitimate FS.
On Offense, if the Oline holds it's own, I think the sky's the limit. Again depth is a concern.
On Specials, KR and PR are ?s and Kicker IMO.
Overall a decent roster. Is it better then Philly, Dallas or Washington?
Quote:
Pencil in some injuries though, and the depth doesn't look that great.
I’m not seeing greatness of defense. There are individual great players in Snacks and Collins, but the Giants have one pass rusher and one CB.
Agree, no greatness but some of you way underestimate what some of these guys project to. I don't see why not our secondary cannot be better than last yr and certainly our pass rush will be much improved. What did we draft Carter? I am sure Bettcher will turn him into a PS specialist, our new tackles will also assist with a better collapse of the pocket. I think there are several reasons why Bettch's DEF has been top 10 over the last few years. Should we now think he is going to drop out of the top 10 because he changed zip codes.
Quote:
Pencil in some injuries though, and the depth doesn't look that great.
I’m not seeing greatness of defense. There are individual great players in Snacks and Collins, but the Giants have one pass rusher and one CB.
The Giants have 5 former all-pro players on defense. The ingredients are there.
Along with a wide majority of the other teams.
DB concerns me.
So true.
I think the DL can control the line of scrimmage with Snacks/Tomlinson/Hill and the reserves are sturdy against the run. The pass rush is what scares me but Bettcher's MO is supposed to be manufacturing the pass rush with his blitzes which should play to Olgetree's strengths on the blitz side but I'm starting to believe the key to this defense being above average to very good is Vernon. He needs to have a huge year with hopefully Carter coming on as the year goes on.
Quote:
can they control the LOS ... if yes, we're good and if no, we're sub 500.
So true.
I think the DL can control the line of scrimmage with Snacks/Tomlinson/Hill and the reserves are sturdy against the run. The pass rush is what scares me but Bettcher's MO is supposed to be manufacturing the pass rush with his blitzes which should play to Olgetree's strengths on the blitz side but I'm starting to believe the key to this defense being above average to very good is Vernon. He needs to have a huge year with hopefully Carter coming on as the year goes on.
I should've said front seven, it's the OLBs and generating edge rush pressure I'm concerned about. They've got to wreak enough havoc up front to take the heat off the back end until they develop some talent.
Quote:
But the truth is, with this much change there is no way to project with confidence. We have huge roster turnover, changes in coaching, scheme, etc. There is no way to predict how this will all come together and how the pieces will fit. What if Odell lost a step following injury, Barkely falls shy of the hype, Eli looks the same as the past two years, the Oline struggles continue, and we have the normal injury bug but to key positions on D. Do we love things then? Are any of these really that unlikely?
I should pull up comments from prior offseasons. Things like: best WR corp. ever, Eli will win MVP, defense will dominate, SB or bust/bank it, kind of hype that never materialized. There is a credibility issue here. This new group needs to establish it, and that's not going to come from post practice interviews. When they do, I'll give the team the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not blind to what I know verses what is speculation. What I know is that despite good reason for optimism, the reality is a boat load of unknowns and I'm not going to pretend to have a crystal ball.
Of course. Your second paragraph is generally fan hyperbole. The ‘what ifs’ in the first paragraph are what ALL fans of every team have to face (save for a Belichick run team, I guess) before the season begins in earnest
Quote:
But the truth is, with this much change there is no way to project with confidence. We have huge roster turnover, changes in coaching, scheme, etc. There is no way to predict how this will all come together and how the pieces will fit. What if Odell lost a step following injury, Barkely falls shy of the hype, Eli looks the same as the past two years, the Oline struggles continue, and we have the normal injury bug but to key positions on D. Do we love things then? Are any of these really that unlikely?
I should pull up comments from prior offseasons. Things like: best WR corp. ever, Eli will win MVP, defense will dominate, SB or bust/bank it, kind of hype that never materialized. There is a credibility issue here. This new group needs to establish it, and that's not going to come from post practice interviews. When they do, I'll give the team the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not blind to what I know verses what is speculation. What I know is that despite good reason for optimism, the reality is a boat load of unknowns and I'm not going to pretend to have a crystal ball.
After last year's mini-camp, I told my wife that the best defensive secondary in the NFL was competing every day with the best WR group in the NFL in Giants camp - and that each squad practicing against each other was just going to make them increasingly better.
Oh my... how fun the months of May and June can be for silly football fantasies.
true, but i kinda feel they’re on the brink of being really good..especially after turning their season around last year after such a poor start. I can totally see them winning the West outright.
Quote:
In comment 13985401 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Pencil in some injuries though, and the depth doesn't look that great.
I’m not seeing greatness of defense. There are individual great players in Snacks and Collins, but the Giants have one pass rusher and one CB.
Disagree as DL strength will make it easier on CBs.
The only way he front 7 (not DL) helps the CBs is if they get to the QB. The front 7 has too much unproven talent for me to say they are going to make the CB’s lives easier. It could happen, but it’s far from certain.
Quote:
In comment 13985451 Boy Cord said:
Quote:
In comment 13985401 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Pencil in some injuries though, and the depth doesn't look that great.
I’m not seeing greatness of defense. There are individual great players in Snacks and Collins, but the Giants have one pass rusher and one CB.
Disagree as DL strength will make it easier on CBs.
The only way he front 7 (not DL) helps the CBs is if they get to the QB. The front 7 has too much unproven talent for me to say they are going to make the CB’s lives easier. It could happen, but it’s far from certain.
Ogletree, L. Collins, Martin and maybe rookie Carter can bring some heat but none are superstar rushers by any means.
The BEST thing that can happen is for the rookies to play over their "pay grade" and produce as rookies. I mean, if Hill, Carter can make big leaps and generate pass rush this team is pretty solid. But until I see it, this team will be "middle of the pack defensively".