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NFT: New York Rangers Offseason Thread

Anakim : 6/7/2018 11:56 pm
So it begins.


Trades can occur whenever, but we probably won't hear many until the Draft (which is in two weeks. Rangers have picks 9, 26, and 28.)



Should be very interesting what the Rangers do in free agency and in the draft. We're going to have a ton of cap space (and a ton of picks), but ownership and management seem to be committed to the rebuild under our new HC, David Quinn.


So we can use that immense cap space in two ways:


1) Pull a Sather and go nuts in free agency. Sign James van Riemsdyk, Ilya Kovalchuk, Jumbo Joe...(yes, I think Tavares is a pipe dream). Maybe seek a trade for Erik Karlsson, Trouba, or Risto (we certainly have the assets). Try to win now with both young talent (Lias, Chytil, Skjei, Pionk, Buchnevich...) and our veteran talent (like the aforementioned names, along with Henrik, Zibanejad, Kreider Shattenkirk, etc.)


Or

2) Trade for cap albatrosses like Milan Lucic and Bobby Ryan (while hopefully shipping out our own anchors like Marc Staal and Brendan Smith) and acquire prospects, young players, and draft picks. Essentially being that team that teams try to dump players on.



We have a few RFAs that we need to make decisions on:

Kevin Hayes
Vlad Namestinikov
Ryan Spooner
Jimmy Vesey
Brady Skjei


My guess is that Hayes, Vesey, and Skjei will be back, and that Spooner and Namestnikov will be dealt.


Then there's the question of Zuccarello. Do we keep him or trade him? Does he fit into our plans? I would love to bring him back, but he did take a step back last year (as did the whole team), so it may make sense to get something for him while we can.



Should be an interesting offseason
I think they'll  
Phil in LA : 6/8/2018 12:04 am : link
trade up in the first round for some target. I hope it's not Tkachuck..
RE: I think they'll  
Anakim : 6/8/2018 12:25 am : link
In comment 13986223 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
trade up in the first round for some target. I hope it's not Tkachuck..


I like this Wahlstrom kid. Best shot in the Draft and an all-around scoring threat. We severely lack wingers and RHDs so I dont think we can go wrong with Wahlstrom, Noah Dobson, or Adam Boqvist.
I hope they don’t trade up  
Vanzetti : 6/8/2018 2:03 am : link
That would be typical Rangers’ stupidity. Then they can draft the next McIlrath.

This team needs to replenish its talent pool. Plus, apart from franchise talents like Crosby and Ovi, the first round is a crap shoot. You have a better chance of hitting with three picks than using them to trade up for a number five pick or something of that ilk.

Just look at last year: Chytil is probably a better pick than Anderson. If they come away with three guys like Kreider, JT Miller and Hayes, that’s fine. That’s what they need
Going to be an insane offseason...  
TeamSchlitz1 : 6/8/2018 6:30 am : link
I think Zucc is gone unfortunately. still hoping for Kovalchuk, think he can really help with Buchnevic’s development. Hoping if we trade up we use a RFA rather than picks.

No idea what this team is going to look like.
Just picked up the Hockey News Draft Preview 2018  
TheMick7 : 6/8/2018 6:34 am : link
Very informative magazine($5.99) & with the Rangers having 7 picks in the first 3 rounds,a great reference to have!
Lot of different directions  
SW_84 : 6/8/2018 10:28 am : link
NYR can go this offseason. Couple big questions for me are:

1) Who will the Assistants be (save allaire who will be back)
2) Which one of the RFAs will get dealt? Personally i'd rather see them move Spooner, but Namestnikov, Hayes and Vesey are on that list
3) Will Zuccarrello be back? Also will the Rangers be big players on Kovalchuk sweepstakes
4) Will they take on some bad contracts (a Dubinsky or Bobby Ryan contract) in order to stockpile assets
5) Are they going to pick at nine, and will they package picks to move up once (or more) at the draft


Gonna be a fun couple of weeks
I'd be ok if they trade up for Tkachuck  
arniefez : 6/8/2018 10:33 am : link
if he comes with Fairbairn and Vickers.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/8/2018 10:48 am : link
Has there been any update on Kovalchuk? I want them to sign him. He's still very good.
.  
Kyle in NY : 6/8/2018 11:01 am : link
I've enjoyed this prospect preview series from Blueshirt Banter. I'd be happy getting one of these top 9. Hughes, Boqvist, Wahlstromm are the realistic targets that I'm most hopeful for, just based on what I've read
Link - ( New Window )
I'd be leery on Hughes  
Anakim : 6/8/2018 11:31 am : link
And granted I don't follow these prospects closely, but I think Hughes' size limits his potential and he already seems to be much more advanced in his offensive game than in his defensive game. Last thing we need is another Tony DeAngelo.
RE: .  
Metnut : 6/8/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 13986412 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Has there been any update on Kovalchuk? I want them to sign him. He's still very good.


Not trying to invade NYR thread, but NYI beat writers think Lou L is optimistic that he can sign him to NYI and is definitely interested. Who knows.
RE: I'd be leery on Hughes  
Kyle in NY : 6/8/2018 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13986465 Anakim said:
Quote:
And granted I don't follow these prospects closely, but I think Hughes' size limits his potential and he already seems to be much more advanced in his offensive game than in his defensive game. Last thing we need is another Tony DeAngelo.


Scouts say Hughes is far and away the best skater in the draft and one of the best they've ever seen. In addition to his excellent puck moving ability. We need more of those abilities. I'll deal with his lack of size given those skills. In today's game, he fits very well.
.  
Kyle in NY : 6/8/2018 12:52 pm : link
Skating ability, quickness, decision making, and passing ability are far more important skills in the defensive end than size. I know that goes against conventional thinking, but we've botched decisions on defensive personnel for so long. I'd like to see them think more outside the box when it comes to defense.

Marc Staal has size, what has that done for him?
RE: .  
Anakim : 6/8/2018 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13986567 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
Skating ability, quickness, decision making, and passing ability are far more important skills in the defensive end than size. I know that goes against conventional thinking, but we've botched decisions on defensive personnel for so long. I'd like to see them think more outside the box when it comes to defense.

Marc Staal has size, what has that done for him?


True, but I just fear that he'll get outmuscled by guys in the offensive zone and around the crease. Can he ever be a true first-pairing guy if he's that undersized?
It’s a fair question  
Kyle in NY : 6/8/2018 1:22 pm : link
I’m willing to take the chance on him or Boqvist though (another undersized defenseman) given their offensive upside. Especially at 9. Seems unlikely Hughes will be available at that point though
RE: It’s a fair question  
Anakim : 6/8/2018 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13986620 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
I’m willing to take the chance on him or Boqvist though (another undersized defenseman) given their offensive upside. Especially at 9. Seems unlikely Hughes will be available at that point though


Seems like the best option for the Rangers would be Noah Dobson, who doesn't have many weaknesses in his game (nor does he excel at any one trait). But at least he has size.


I don't think the Rangers will be interested in Evan Bouchard given that the biggest knock on him is his skating and it seems like this Rangers scouting staff holds skating as the greatest ability they value.
I wouldn't spend huge in UFA  
JonC : 6/8/2018 1:28 pm : link
unless it's for top talent in its prime. Enough of the Redden, Shattenkirk, etc albatross contracts.

Trade up early if you've got to to get the target you want most, it's the top end talent they've been lacking, haven't had enough to get over the top.
RE: RE: It’s a fair question  
Kyle in NY : 6/8/2018 1:33 pm : link
In comment 13986626 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 13986620 Kyle in NY said:


Quote:


I’m willing to take the chance on him or Boqvist though (another undersized defenseman) given their offensive upside. Especially at 9. Seems unlikely Hughes will be available at that point though



Seems like the best option for the Rangers would be Noah Dobson, who doesn't have many weaknesses in his game (nor does he excel at any one trait). But at least he has size.


I don't think the Rangers will be interested in Evan Bouchard given that the biggest knock on him is his skating and it seems like this Rangers scouting staff holds skating as the greatest ability they value.


Wouldn’t you rather take the chance on an elite ability rather than just going for the guy who doesn’t excel in any one area but is maybe safer? Hughes or Boqvist have elite abilities but may fall due to bias against their size. That’s an opportunity to get an elite talent at a “non elite” pick.
Size for defensemen still matters...  
baadbill : 6/8/2018 2:05 pm : link
It's nice to have speed and passing skills, but clearing the front of the net is always going to be a big part of the game...

I'd also argue that having a self-awareness on the ice... an innate sense of your surroundings... that 6th sense certain defensemen seem to have to know when to stay put deep in the zone with heavy traffic bearing down and pressure being applied ... to just hold the puck for that one extra second and end up making that perfect pass to break out of the zone... is more important than pure speed.

Size matters for D  
pjcas18 : 6/8/2018 2:28 pm : link
but less than it used to IMO.

Erik Karlsson is listed at 6', I'd be surprised if he is, and it doesn't get much better than him - all around - offensively definitely, but he doesn't give up much defensively either.

Ryan Ellis is 5' 10".

Charlie McAvoy is just 6'

Brian Leetch is just 6'

Will Butcher is just 5'10"

But it's not toughness in front of the net that is my concern. Shorter D can be bulldogs in front of the net and being shorter in some cases gives them leverage.

It's the physical pounding they'll take in the corners and more importantly the reach.

If you compare how hard it is to make a zone entry into the offensive zone against a D like Chara (ok, an extreme) vs Canadiens Victor Mete (5' 9" - ok another extreme, but useful to illustrate the point) it's astonishing.

Some fans might not really comprehend fully what this means. Picture a defenseman with their stick extended out to make a poke check. If that's Chara at 6' 9" with a 65 inch stick players need to make their move so much sooner than 5'9" Victor Mete with his maybe 48 inch stick the zone entry is so much easier. And Chara (and taller D) closes gaps much quicker.

Maybe people think it's subtle but it's not. that smaller D needs to be more aggressive and with aggressive play comes risk.

The pros in many cases can outweigh the cons. Hughes and Boqvist are elite skaters, with great vision - like Karlsson, but when you look at someone like Torrey Krug - lesser skill but same mold, who IMO is really a PP D you see the downside. He gets moved off the puck in cycles, he gets pushed off the puck on the boards and he's susceptible to the zone entry.

He's fantastic on the breakout, good skater, good puck mover, good shot, good hockey sense, not in Hughes or Boqvist class per se, but being honest he's got skills. Just not size.

So I'd draft those smaller D but for me the pluses have to be so significant and I don't see a comparable player available at another position with more prototypical size.
PJ... reading your post reminded me of Ron Greschner  
baadbill : 6/8/2018 2:42 pm : link
... although he was tall, he wasn't "big" ... more lanky than anything ... but with very long arms and reach ... he would rush the length of the ice, at what seemed to be almost slow motion, using his reach to maneuver the puck beyond everyone's reach ... he was incredible to watch and the epitome of demonstrating the advantages of a long reach
Leetch was listed at 6'  
Greg from LI : 6/8/2018 2:50 pm : link
But I've seen him up close and not on skates and I don't think he was taller than 5'11", if that.
When I'm talking about Hughes' skating  
Kyle in NY : 6/8/2018 2:53 pm : link
I'm not talking just about straight ahead speed. It's lateral agility, stop/start, acceleration, pivots, edgework. All of which is more important than clearing the net. Hughes is the best in the draft at it, even better than Dahlin, scouts say, as a skater. The Rangers have had plenty of size on defense and have largely been awful clearing the net in front of Hank. I'd rather have a group of defensemen that's more proficient in keeping the puck in the other teams end more often than ours.

pj makes a good point, about size being useful just as far as holding up against the pounding of a forecheck. That's fair. And denying clean entries at the blue line, also valid. But by all accounts Hughes is perfectly acceptable at the latter, due in large part to that skating ability. And when he's on the puck, there's few better in this draft
I think you'd absolutely sign up  
Kyle in NY : 6/8/2018 2:55 pm : link
for getting Torey Krug with the 9th pick in any respective draft. Considering the risks and uncertainty that come with any draft. That's a productive defenseman, even with his limitations
RE: Leetch was listed at 6'  
pjcas18 : 6/8/2018 2:57 pm : link
In comment 13986768 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But I've seen him up close and not on skates and I don't think he was taller than 5'11", if that.


agree.
RE: When I'm talking about Hughes' skating  
baadbill : 6/8/2018 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13986771 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
I'm not talking just about straight ahead speed. It's lateral agility, stop/start, acceleration, pivots, edgework. All of which is more important than clearing the net. Hughes is the best in the draft at it, even better than Dahlin, scouts say, as a skater. The Rangers have had plenty of size on defense and have largely been awful clearing the net in front of Hank. I'd rather have a group of defensemen that's more proficient in keeping the puck in the other teams end more often than ours.

pj makes a good point, about size being useful just as far as holding up against the pounding of a forecheck. That's fair. And denying clean entries at the blue line, also valid. But by all accounts Hughes is perfectly acceptable at the latter, due in large part to that skating ability. And when he's on the puck, there's few better in this draft


I guess I was thinking of that as quickness more than speed, but I agree with your points. Good post.
I don't think there is any scenario  
pjcas18 : 6/8/2018 3:05 pm : link
I'd say Hughes is a better skater than Dahlin.

Maybe Jack Hughes (not sure yet), but not Quinn.

Just not close.

Dahlin is one the best skaters I've seen. Period. He's Bobby Orr but taller.
And you know where Leetch was picked?  
BrettNYG10 : 6/8/2018 3:07 pm : link
9th overall.

#blessed
skating and ability to move the puck are the most important  
Greg from LI : 6/8/2018 3:08 pm : link
things I want from defensemen in today's game. Size is always a plus, but I watched Staal and Girardi bang the puck off the boards over and over again for years, which was a major component of those long stretches when the Rangers would get pinned in their own end.
I agree.  
BrettNYG10 : 6/8/2018 3:14 pm : link
pj's right about size being beneficial. Staal in his prime was valuable in part due to his poke check that helped deny zone entries.

But you also have six dmen. You won't have six dmen with the same style/strengths/weaknesses.
RE: I think you'd absolutely sign up  
pjcas18 : 6/8/2018 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13986775 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
for getting Torey Krug with the 9th pick in any respective draft. Considering the risks and uncertainty that come with any draft. That's a productive defenseman, even with his limitations

Funny you say that, I thought I would and I asked that exact question to Grant McGagg on twitter (former Habs scout and tsn and hockey news analyst and maybe with recrutes now).

And he and twitter followers (which are mostly Habs fans to be fair) all thought I overrated Krug.

I think he'd go first round for sure. 9 might be a little high though. Maybe 15.
Here's a 2009 draft re-do (which I think is the one Krug went  
BrettNYG10 : 6/8/2018 3:37 pm : link
Undrafted in?). I'd say he's a top fifteen player. Getting him at 9 wouldn't be bad at all.
2009 Re-draft - ( New Window )
RE: I don't think there is any scenario  
Kyle in NY : 6/8/2018 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13986788 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I'd say Hughes is a better skater than Dahlin.

Maybe Jack Hughes (not sure yet), but not Quinn.

Just not close.

Dahlin is one the best skaters I've seen. Period. He's Bobby Orr but taller.


That's based on your eye test then, because I don't believe I've read any scout or draft analyst say that Hughes is not a better skater than Dahlin. Even if Dahlin is far and away the better prospect.

How can you say it's not close?
Hughes is a great skater  
pjcas18 : 6/8/2018 4:03 pm : link
I'm not sure I have seen a defenseman skate as well as Dahlin - especially at that age.

I don't know how to describe it. He's 3 inches taller than Erik Karlsson and every bit the skater.

Every time I watched Dahlin touch the puck it reminded me of when Connor McDavid has the puck, he's like a caged animal looking for the slightest crease to escape and if he gets it he's gone. Watch the way he skates WITH the puck, it's effortless, the dangles the toe drags, and Dahlin was a center before playing D.

Look for the clips of him passing to himself between the legs of the Russian defenders at the WJC as an 16 year old, Hughes does not have that elusiveness.

The only area I might say Hughes has any advantage would be his shot and it's not that Dahlin has a bad shot, he just doesn't have a 100 mph slap shot. But he picks corners like a sniper.

This is from Adam Herman of sportingnews:

Quote:
There are no flaws to his game. At an age where virtually every other top defensive prospect is still awkwardly figuring things out at a lower level, Dahlin is one of the top defensemen in arguably the second-toughest league in the entire world.


I agree  
Kyle in NY : 6/8/2018 4:05 pm : link
that he's a generational prospect
.  
Kyle in NY : 6/8/2018 4:08 pm : link
Just saying I've seen most say that Hughes is the better skater. But Dahlin is far and away the best puck handler in the draft. And is obviously a good skater himself. So combining all those traits, certainly Dahlin is the better prospect. But he's not in play for either of our teams.
Hughes reminds me a little  
pjcas18 : 6/8/2018 4:20 pm : link
of Zach Werenski.

just shorter.

I'd love to have him on my team.

Where the Canadiens pick though it's too high for Hughes IMO.

I'd rather Hughes though than Tkachuk (for the Canadiens).
Definitely would take someone like Werenski  
Kyle in NY : 6/8/2018 4:36 pm : link
Sounds like you've soured on Tkachuk a bit? We talked about him a few months back. I think he's more appropriate for the Rangers at 9 than the top 4, where many had been placing him
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