Hall of Fame Voter: Gary Myers on T.O.

In comment 13986680 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 13986676 Greg from LI said: Quote: What? For most of his career he was a guy who cared more about his contract than about the team. Not for nothing was he commonly referred to as $trahan on this very board many years ago. He changed quite a bit in his last couple of seasons, but for most of his career he was far from anything resembling a team leader. And Owens was a better receiver than Strahan was a DE. Fair post, imv

Oh so because Mark S foolishly labeled Strahan as $trahan it carries weight around here? Mark was wrong. Strahan was fantastic once he got into year 3-4. He had one, count them ONE season where he slipped (99?) and promptly bounced back soon after.

You like to diminish players and coaches from this nyg era. Strahan was as good a DE in all of football for the better part of 15 years.

We aren’t talking about excluding TO from canton! We’re talking about FIRST BALLOT HOF. There’s a distinction.

TO had a bizzare persona on the surface and countless reports of him causing riffs in the locker room. Countless evidence of him showing up qbs and teammates. Moss wasn’t as disruptive and honestly he was just better or more explosive than TO.

I loved TO as a player. Hated that the giants faced him so many times. I even defended his act at times but he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Teams were scared of signing him. That tells me he wasn’t a perfect nfl entity.

LT was nuts off the field. Strahan bitched about money. Uhh they all do. LT was crazier than most but how many times was he traded? How many moments did the giants ehen entertain the notion of trading either player? Not many is my guess.

Moss was traded too. But he also broke nfl records when he got traded and his peak was better than TO

Whatever the guy is fucking in. He had to wait 3 lousy years big deal. Drama queen divas should wait.

In comment 13987534 djm said:

Quote:

We aren’t talking about excluding TO from canton! We’re talking about FIRST BALLOT HOF. There’s a distinction. TO had a bizzare persona on the surface and countless reports of him causing riffs in the locker room. Countless evidence of him showing up qbs and teammates. Moss wasn’t as disruptive and honestly he was just better or more explosive than TO. I loved TO as a player. Hated that the giants faced him so many times. I even defended his act at times but he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Teams were scared of signing him. That tells me he wasn’t a perfect nfl entity. LT was nuts off the field. Strahan bitched about money. Uhh they all do. LT was crazier than most but how many times was he traded? How many moments did the giants ehen entertain the notion of trading either player? Not many is my guess. Moss was traded too. But he also broke nfl records when he got traded and his peak was better than TO Whatever the guy is fucking in. He had to wait 3 lousy years big deal. Drama queen divas should wait.

Ray Lewis played a role in a murder and was a first-ballot HOFer. It's ridiculous and childish that the voters pushed TO out to his third year of eligibility. Period. Hard stop.

In comment 13986678 allstarjim said:

Quote:

But he was a selfish player who was jettisoned from multiple teams because of his me-first mentality. And his poisonous attitude is probably why he was never a Super Bowl champion. If I had a vote, I probably don't vote for him, because to me that stuff matters when talking about the Hall. Hines Ward, who has still not been inducted, to me is far more deserving. He sold out on the field for his teammates. While T.O. was whining about not getting the ball, Ward was blocking the hell out of corners and helping his teammates make big plays. No, Ward doesn't have the gaudy TD numbers of Owens, but he has 2 rings to Owens' none, and that's partly because of his dedication to his team and him being a Hall of Fame type of player.

It's actually impressive, how consistently dumb your opinions on things are. It's like you come up with a random opinion and then try to invent reality to support it,

Ray Lewis was the best defensive leader or one of the best leaders in the Nfl for close to 20 years.

TO never lead a fucking thing except his own agenda.

Not a fair comparison.

ANd I agree that sometimes off the field shit plays a part, sometimes but only if that off the field shit impacted the career in such a way that it lessened the impact or if the transgressions were so awful that the voters simply couldn’t even bear to vote the guy in.

TO was the biggest diva wr in the history of the nfl. From all accounts he was not a leader. He was not a good locker room presence. He caused friction. He dividers locker rooms. Even if half the shit said about TO is untrue he still carried a stigma that is impossible to ignore. His career was not perfect on the field. There was always drama. Always tension.

Ray Lewis had a near perfect career. He inspired teamates even if I myself eye roll about him, he did inspire. Period. TO inspired more dramatic hot takes than anyone did before or after. So he waited three lousy years. Gimme a break. Bigger injustices have occurred. See harry Carson. See Leonard Marshall not even getting a whiff of canton. Or Bavaro. Or Bart Oates. George young. Or plenty of other well deserving Nfl greats that played elsewhere. And I’m supposed to cry for TO because he didn’t get in on the first try??? Cmon already!

Drama queen cry baby.

The concern shouldn't be whether the HOF committee should allow "rapists and pedophiles" in to Canton - the concern should be whether that committee is using their privilege to deny induction to players who are otherwise good people off the field based on perceived transgressions.

There still isn't agreement here, or elsewhere in sports circles, about just how much T.O.'s character was an issue with the teams he played for. It's absurd that the people who have a vote are allowed to even make a judgment off of something so subjective - where is the line drawn? It's clear that the standard on the committee is so lax that we likely have voters having decisions affected based just on whether or not they like the player. No football fan should be in support of that.

The analogy of players that have a felony conviction or that took PED's is not worth bringing up, because there wouldn't be much of debate. Those are objective things that are worthy of discretion from a person making the decision. But absent of the player committing a severe law/rules violation, the decision to nominate should be based only on their accomplishments on the field. Period.

T.O. had a career worthy of a first ballot induction - he was bypassed not once, but twice. He released a public statement about his not attending the ceremony which I thought was very classy and professional - but if he would have released a statement telling the HOF committee to go fuck themselves I think that would have been completely acceptable as well.

And, when you think about how players get into the Hall of Fame (based on votes by clown newspaper writers like Myers), it makes it a less prestigious distinction, as far as I'm concerned.

When I think of "How does that person have a Hall of Fame vote???" I always think of Nancy Gay, the (former?) San Francisco 49ers beat reporter.

Remember when she wrote that article that mentioned that Eli was "benched" for Jared Lorenzen? Lorenzen came into the game when the Giants decided to go for it on 4th-and-short. Then Eli came back in. But to that football genius, Eli was benched.

And she has/had a Pro Football Hall of Fame vote.

how much some of these guys base their vote on how they feel towards the guy, not the type of player they were.

Guy no longer has a platform and is doing anything he can to make a name for himself.

.

In comment 13986676 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

What? For most of his career he was a guy who cared more about his contract than about the team. Not for nothing was he commonly referred to as $trahan on this very board many years ago. He changed quite a bit in his last couple of seasons, but for most of his career he was far from anything resembling a team leader. And Owens was a better receiver than Strahan was a DE.

I agree with the first part of your post. But, Strahan was the best DL outside of Reggie White for the last 30 years. He was every bit as good as Owens and maybe better.

thing Dorgan should punch this fucker in the nads for having a handle so close to his but being one gigantic mouthbreathing idiot:

Quote:

Players Dragon : 6/8/2018 5:23 pm : link : reply Today have become to media affiliated they seem to think that playing the game gives them very special privileges both from the sport, team management and in life. Now is it just the players fault or are we the fans just as guilty for continued support of these teams and players. Does the news about any terrible players behavior really surprise us anymore we have seen and heard it all. Players now are refusing to visit the White House because they don’t like the present president or what he has said. They kneel down during the playing of our anthem but we still like the romans attend the feeding of the Christians to the lions why is that? T.O is who he is nothing more need be said but he deserved to be a 1st time ballot HOF. However he has not kept his true nature hidden he has been T.O love him or hate him but he has been himself not a facade as most players are today.

I have no fucking clue what point is trying to be made here.

After Rice and Moss. He absolutely should've been a first ballot HOF.

Yards
Rice: 22895
Owens: 15934
Fitzgerald: 15545
Moss: 15292
Bruce: 15208

No one else >15,000

Touchdowns
Rice: 197
Moss: 156
Owens: 153
Carter: 130
Harrison: 128
Fitzgerald: 110

Big drop-off after Rice and another after Moss/Owens

Receptions
Rice: 1549
Fitzgerald: 1234
Witten: 1152
Harrison: 1102
Carter: 1101
Tim Brown: 1094
Owens: 1078
...
14. Moss: 982


*It should be noted that Moss, Owens, and Fitz have played 218, 219, and 218 games respectively (Rice played in 303 games).

In comment 13989164 giants#1 said:

Quote:

After Rice and Moss. He absolutely should've been a first ballot HOF. Yards Rice: 22895 Owens: 15934 Fitzgerald: 15545 Moss: 15292 Bruce: 15208 No one else >15,000 Touchdowns Rice: 197 Moss: 156 Owens: 153 Carter: 130 Harrison: 128 Fitzgerald: 110 Big drop-off after Rice and another after Moss/Owens Receptions Rice: 1549 Fitzgerald: 1234 Witten: 1152 Harrison: 1102 Carter: 1101 Tim Brown: 1094 Owens: 1078 ... 14. Moss: 982 *It should be noted that Moss, Owens, and Fitz have played 218, 219, and 218 games respectively (Rice played in 303 games).

Given some of the garbage QBs Fitzgerald played with in Arizona, I'd argue he's just as good as T.O.

But the third best WR ever? No way. T.O. is helped by modern stats. Don Hutson, Steve Largent, and Art Monk were better receivers.